嗨，大家晚上好，首先，呃，我是 Nadia Jakobi，我是这所大学，波农索昂大学的副校长，首先，我想感谢大家加入我们、来到这里，也要向，呃，那些无法参加的人表示歉意，因为实际上我们发出邀请后很快就订满了，呃，如果他们不在这里，可以观看，呃，直播，你们明天早上也可以在 YouTube 上找到视频，所以实际上我们组织得相当好，那么，呃，实际上今天对我们大学来说是非常特别的一天，呃，我们感到极其自豪，而我尤其非常自豪，今晚能欢迎一位非常特别的人，一位很可能是 20 世纪和 21 世纪最具影响力的人物之一，一位

无疑是他那一代最具创造力的头脑，他是一家革命性汽车制造商的联合创始人兼首席执行官，这家公司正在挑战主流汽车行业，但他也也是一家极具创新力公司的创始人兼首席执行官，实际上，这是第一家发射航天器进入轨道并使其返回的私营公司，最后同样重要的是，他还是美国规模更大的太阳能供应商的董事长，通过他的不同活动，他正在，呃，面对环境、社会和经济挑战，它涉及不同议题上的突破性项目，比如绿色出行、清洁和可再生能源、太空探索等等，顺便说一句，在近期的新闻中，这里，在法国，在欧洲，你们可能听说了，昨天一座新的太阳能

公司在法国南部落成，这无疑或者实际上是目前欧洲最大的，它以远低于新一代核反应堆发电成本的价格售电，并且能够为超过 50,000 户家庭提供能源电力，但此外更重要的是，目前巴黎正在，呃，举办联合国气候变化大会，这场大会面对着如何应对气候紊乱这一高风险问题，杯 21 的目标是把升温控制在与前工业时代相比低于 2 摄氏度，为此，杯赛的目标是建立一个巴黎气候联盟，一项让所有人作出承诺的普遍气候协议，所以在这样的背景下，还有谁比伊兰·马斯克更适合与你们交谈，请欢迎埃隆·马斯克，谢谢，好的，好的

好的，那么，谢谢你们邀请我，很高兴来到这里，嗯，呃，巴黎是全世界我最喜欢的地方之一，而且而且实际上，呃，我第一次离开南非旅行时，呃，巴黎就是就是我去的地方，而当我，当我还是个小孩的时候，嗯，我的我的父母在我大约 6 岁时带我来过，嗯，所以从那以后我一直 L 巴黎，嗯，所以谢谢你们邀请我，我今天要谈的只是从总体上说，呃，应对这场这这场气候危机需要什么，嗯，而这件事是，如果如果如果我们，如果我们做，我们可以采取哪些行动，来加速摆脱，呃，化石燃料时代的转型，嗯，所以我们今天所处的是，呃，看看这个东西是否能用，也许不能，好吧，好的，我们有，我们有现在的

时代，在这个时代里我们有这这个碳循环，如果如果你们当中有些人已经完全了解这一切，我向你们致歉，但我认为这些事情中有些可能并不像看上去那么显而易见，所以有一定数量的碳在环境中循环，它进入空气，被吸收，然后被植物和动物吸收，嗯，随后又回到空气中，而这些这些碳只是在地表循环，嗯，这这没有问题，而且数百万、数亿年来一直如此，呃，发生变化的是，我们在其中加入了某种东西，所以这就是我所称的，某种，宾治酒碗里的粪便，嗯，所以我们把所有这些额外的碳加入了碳循环，而净结果

是，呃，海洋大气中的碳随着时间推移不断增加，它远远超过了生态系统能够吸收的量，这，这真的，这真的相当简单，我们正在把，呃，数十亿吨已经埋藏了数亿年年的碳，嗯，而且它并不属于碳循环，从地下深处取出来，并加入碳循环，结果是大气和海洋海洋中的碳稳定增加，如果你在这张图表上看，它似乎不算多，但当放到历史背景下看时，它实际上是这样的，所以每百万中的碳在大约 1,000 万年间实际上一直在 300 这一水平附近波动，嗯，然后在过去几百年里，它进入了一段

垂直攀升，这这就是问题的实质，这非常不寻常，嗯，而且而且是一个，一个非常非常极端的威胁，正如你们从从这一增长速度中可以看到的，随后伴随的是如人们所预期的气温升高，而且，呃，而且而且而且对于这种气温升高，人们谈论 2 度或者或者 3 度，重要的是要认识到，气候实际上对，呃，对温度有多么敏感，而且重要的是从绝对温度的角度来看待它，而不是，嗯，相对于零点的摄氏度数，我们需要说，相对于绝对零度，温度变化是多少，宇宙就是这样看待温度的，物理学就是这样看待温度的，它是，它是相对于绝对零度而言的，所以对于微小的变化

会导致巨大的影响，呃，所以纽约市被冰覆盖会是零下 5°，纽约市被水淹没会是零上 5°，但如果将其作为相对于绝对零度的百分比来看，它只有正 2% 的变化，所以气候的敏感度极其、极其高。嗯，我们把城市建在海岸线上，放大了这种敏感性，而且大多数人大都住得离海洋非常近。当然，有些国家地势非常低，在气候危机中会完全，呃，被淹没。所以，我们实际上把文明设计得对气候变化超级敏感。嗯，而需要认识到的重要一点是，我们将会退出化石燃料时代，所以这、这是不可避免的，

我们将退出磷时代，因为到某个时候，我们将根本没有，呃，碳可供开采和燃烧。所以真正的问题是，我们何时退出这个时代，而不是会不会退出。目标是尽可能快地退出这个时代，这意味着我们需要从、从旧目标，呃，工业化前的目标转变；那个目标是从，呃，砍倒森林和，呃，杀死大量鲸鱼，嗯，旧目标是从、从砍木头和、和杀鲸转向，呃，化石燃料，而实际上在当时的背景下，那是一件好事。但新目标是迈向可持续能源的未来，我们想使用，呃，水能、太阳能、风能、地热能；原子核在，嗯，像法国这样不、不会遭受自然灾害的地方也是一个不错的选择。嗯，而且

而且我们希望使用在 10亿年里都会很好的能源。那么，我们如何加速这种从化石燃料向可持续时代的转型，以及、以及、以及、以及如果我们不这样做会发生什么？所以，如果我们、如果我们等待，呃，如果我们推迟改变，嗯，最好的情况，最好的情况只不过是推迟那场不可避免的可持续能源转型。所以这就是、这就是如果我们现在不采取行动时最好的情况。嗯，冒着重复的风险，从长期来看，我们将别无选择，只能转向可持续能源，这是、这是同义反复。我们必须拥有可持续能源，否则其他能源就会耗尽。所以，放慢转型唯一带来的结果就、就、就只是让它变慢，并不会、不会让它不发生。

它只是让它变慢。然而，最坏的情况是，流离失所和破坏的程度超过历史上所有战争的总和。好吧，这就是、这些就是最好和最坏的情况。所以，我们有大约 3% 的科学家相信最好的情况，大约 97% 的科学家相信最坏的情况。这就是为什么我称它为史上最愚蠢的实验。你为什么要这么做？所以，转型被推迟，或者、或者、或者进展缓慢的原因，是所有产生碳的活动都享有一项隐性补贴。在一个健康的市场中，如果你有，比如说，10 欧元的收益和 4 的社会损害，利润就会是 6，这算是，你知道，显然说得通。这时激励机制与美好的未来是一致的。这不是、这是

现在并非如此。嗯，但如果你让激励机制保持一致，那么推动实现美好未来、实现可持续能源未来的强制作用就会非常强大。在一个不健康的市场中，你有 10 的收益，你有 4 年，但这 4 并没有、不是 t，所以你就有了未被征税的负外部性。这基本上就是经济学 101。因此，你基本上会获得不合理的利润，并形成一种强制作用，推动，呃，开展碳排放活动，因为这种、这种、这种社会成本没有被支付。最终结果是每年有 35 吉吨碳进入大气。所以，这就类似于不支付垃圾收集费用。嗯，而且这、这并不是说，在垃圾问题上，我们应该说要建立一个无垃圾社会。要建立一个……是非常困难的

没有垃圾的社会，但重要的只是人们要为垃圾收集付费，所以我们需要从未被征税的负外部性转变，而这实际上是一项规模巨大的隐性碳补贴，呃，5。

每年 3万亿美元，根据 IMF 的数据，每年。嗯，我们需要摆脱这种状况，呃，并且、并且、并且、并且征收碳税。所以，但这正受到、这正受到，呃，碳生产者的强烈反对。嗯，他们采用的策略与，呃，香烟行业或烟业多年来采用的策略非常相似。嗯，他们会、他们会采取这样的做法：尽管压倒性的科学共识是，呃，吸烟对你有害，呃，他们还是会找出少数持不同意见的科学家，然后他们会说，看，科学家们意见不一。所以，这本质上就是他们试图欺骗公众，让公众认为吸烟没那么糟糕的方式。显然，解决办法是取消补贴。呃，所以

这意味着我们需要征收卡伦税，而为了让它成为某种既非左派也非右派的议题，我们或许应该实行收入中性的碳税。因此，这将是一种提高碳税、但同时降低其他方面税收的做法。比如，可以降低销售税或增值税，同时提高碳税，这样，只有那些使用高碳水平的人才会缴纳增加的税款。而且，我是说，为了给行业时间作出反应，可以采取分阶段实施的方式，也许要用5年时间才会让碳税变得非常高。这意味着，只有今天不采取行动的公司才会在5年后受损，但政府需要在这方面发出明确的信息

因为根本问题在于，今天的规则在激励人们制造碳，而这太疯狂了。你激励什么，什么就会发生。这就是为什么，你知道，到目前为止我们看到的效果很小，非常小。而我们采取怎样的行动，将会、将会、将会推动卡伦数值走向极端水平或温和水平。嗯，我认为，气温上升2摄氏度几乎已成定局。问题是它是否会远远超过这一水平，而不是会不会上升2摄氏度。嗯，所以接下来的问题是，那么你能做什么？我会说，只要有机会，就和你们的政治人物谈谈，请他们制定碳税。我们、我们必须修正未被定价的外部性。我会和你们的

朋友谈论这件事，并反击碳行业的宣传。所以，这就是我要传达的基本信息，我很乐意回答问题。那么，我们有、我们有一些麦克风正在观众席中传递。你想举手吗？我们会给你一个麦克风。先生您好，我是跨创新与技术人员管理硕士项目的帕斯。我的问题是，对于那些认为目前还有比气候变化和全球变暖更重要的问题的人，您会怎么说？当然。嗯，我是说，世界上肯定有很多重要问题。嗯，这并不是唯一的重要问题。嗯，但我认为，如果我们不解决它，它将是对人类产生最大负面影响的事情。嗯，我是说，根据我们所看到的、这些预测

就目前而言，这些可以说是最乐观情形下的预测，我们将看到气温和海平面显著上升。嗯，最终结果是，如果、如果我们不采取行动，呃，我们可能会看到陆地面积中大约5%到10%、也许、也许更多被水淹没。呃，这、这也许听起来并没有那么多，但大约三分之一的人类就生活在海岸线上或低线国家。因此，我们说的可能是大约20亿人流离失所，嗯，而且、而且他们的家园被摧毁，他们的国家消失。所以我认为我们应该采取行动。先生您好，感谢您来到这里。呃，我的问题是，嗯，我是一名市场营销博士生，我研究的是，是什么激励人们参与挑战

现在您创办了一家制造挑战的公司，它把、它把一枚火箭送到了月球并返回，如果我、如果我没说错的话。我的问题是，您认为一项挑战，嗯，也许还没到月球再返回，对吧？是的，还没完全做到，正在接近，正在接近。我要问您的问题是，您认为激励措施，其中最大的激励是使用金钱激励，是让人们参与进来并解决世界上最大问题的最佳激励方式吗？还是您认为人们可以为了帮助地球上的每个人、让世界变得更好而这样做？所以，金钱是要求人们加入并解决挑战的唯一方式吗？还是您还有其他办法真正激励人们参与？嗯，我、我、我认为肯定存在慈善

因素。嗯，而且，你知道，我认为，我认为总体而言，呃，人们想做正确的事，也想做有益的事。嗯，我们目前的问题在于，这些、这些规则从根本上有利于坏的结果。所以，当你为好的结果而奋斗时，这是一场逆势而上的战斗。嗯，它、它、它只是、只是更慢。嗯，因此，就气候变化而言，至关重要的是政府，而政府是规则的制定者，政府决定公司将、将遵循什么规则。如果我们当前有一套、呃、会极大地激怒不良行为的体系，那么，即、即使大多数人不做出不良行为，一些人仍然会做出不良行为。是的，我是说，金钱和价格，价格基本上只是一种信息

机制。它们只是、它们只是基本上告诉你，它是、它，我是说，金钱主要是，嗯，一种用于劳、劳动力配置的信息机制，也用于，你知道，而且算是告诉公司该做什么。所以，在政府层面采取行动至关重要，这就是为什么它如此重要，因为政府才是制定游戏规则的一方。而让游戏规则有利于，呃，一个坏的结果，简直太疯狂了。上面有个问题。这里有个问题。埃隆·马斯克您好。呃，我叫米歇尔，是这里佩里斯·斯邦，呃，P·斯班的一名经济学本科生。我的问题是，嗯，有一些关于，嗯，从大气中移除，嗯，二氧化碳，并将其深埋在，呃，海洋中的新研究。您认为这是一种，嗯，可持续的

解决方案吗？为什么？谢谢。你知道，我、我不知道有任何一种，呃，碳封存或碳储存系统是、是、是有效的，嗯，而且在经济上可行。嗯，而且、而且我肯定不愿意，我、我们不会想把碳储存在海洋中，因为可能会导致酸化。嗯，你知道，随着、随着大气中的碳、二氧化碳水平上升，呃，其中一部分会被，嗯，海洋吸收，变成碳酸。嗯，尤其是很多贝类，对pH值的变化极其敏感。嗯，所以我、我肯定会、或者说反对，呃，试图把它储存在海洋中。你或许可以尝试把其中一些储存在巨大的地下洞穴中，但就我们所说的庞大数量而言，我、我认为没有任何地方能够储存

嗯，根本、根本没有地方可以储存。是的，提问。先生您好，呃，我在帕龙学习管理学，我想知道，Tesla Motors打算使用锂电池多长时间，因为知道它并不是一种有限资源。嗯，实际上我认为，所以、所以，就能源储存而言，锂，我认为，肯定是未来，而且在很长时间内都会如此。嗯，地球上实际上并不缺锂。呃，所以，锂是，你知道，元素周期表上的3号元素，它实际上极其常见，任何咸水中都含有、含有锂。嗯，所以在，嗯，电池储能方面肯定不会受到锂的限制。嗯，所以我非常确信，嗯，人们可以制造足够的电池，用来储存世界所需的全部能源，利用

目前可用的、可用的资源。是的。您好，我叫伊丁·瓦迪，是斯邦项目与基础设施金融专业的博士生。首先，我想感谢您的最新产品，呃，Po Wall。对我来说，它让公民有能力选择他们可以，呃，消费能源的方式。我可以花几千美元购买，呃，一些太阳能板和Po Wall，然后，呃，摆脱、呃、呃，市场上的任何供应。我的问题是，呃，关于您设计的大、大规模储能系统：您是否收到过政府以及，呃，大公司的任何认真参与，以开发这样的，呃、呃，这样的基础设施？或者您在、在美国境内，或许在其他国家，是否有任何认真的计划，用于、用于大型

能源储存？是的，我们确实有。我们正在与世界各地的公用事业公司推进多个，嗯、呃，非常、非常大型的储能项目。嗯，所以美国境内和境外都有。嗯，储能，呃，形势中有趣的一点是，即、即使没有，呃，可再生能源，也有、也有巨大的潜力使能源电网更加高效，并能够关闭污染最、最、最严重的发电厂。嗯，因为一天之中的、一天之中的能源消耗通常，呃，会变化到2倍或更多。所以，而且由于除水力发电外，你无法储存电力，它必须实时供应，因此全世界拥有的发电厂数量是实际所需数量的2到3倍。所以，如果你能缓冲这些

电力，用呃大型大型固定式电池组，嗯，那么呃你实际上就可以关闭世界上最糟糕的那一半发电厂，所以我认为那那算是一件非常令人兴奋的事情，我觉得很多人并没有意识到这一点，嗯，而且我认为这这将会产生很大很大的影响。你，先生您好，我是Camy，来自创新与技术管理硕士专业，呃，我的问题是，您相信政府、国际政府有能力阻止气候变化吗？您会提出什么建议？嗯，是的，当然，我认为我认为这从根本上说是一个政府问题，嗯，所以这这这是，正如正如刚才提到的，政府是制定游戏规则的一方，他们规定，嗯，你知道，公司如何获得回报

在财务上，因此，如果政府不去呃实际确立某种共同的TX，或者可能在碳方面进行CA交易，嗯，我非常兴奋地看到中国今年早些时候宣布他们将这样做，嗯，除非政府采取措施修复市场机制，嗯，这，这这，我们从根本上将会非常缓慢地过渡，嗯，走出化石燃料时代，所以至关重要的是，嗯，政府行动改变激励结构，嗯，是的，而且而且那会非常明确，所以就像，我认为希望巴黎的这些气候谈判最终产生的结果是，呃，世界各国政府表明他们下定决心，并且说，比方说从现在起5年后，必须

发生巨大的变化，嗯，而且，嗯，而且而且公司确切地知道这将会发生，嗯，而且如果它们，如果它们确实知道，那么它们今天作出的投资决策将在5年后取得成果。所以，嗯，对于对于重工业应用，或者或者对于重工业，如果你知道今天正在建造什么PL、什么什么呃什么工厂，你就大致知道5年后世界会是什么样子，因为如果你建造一家非常大的工厂，从从开工到实现全面生产大约需要5年，所以既然我们知道，今天正在建设的呃大规模可持续能源项目非常少，嗯，我们就知道，除非某些事情非常迅速地发生变化，嗯，可持续能源仍将处于糟糕的

5年后的情况，所以，嗯，你知道，我是说，有些公司，比如，你知道，Tesla 和 Solar City，意识形态驱动力相当强，嗯，但，嗯，但那是相对少见的。所以，嗨安，我叫托马斯。你怎么看那些说我们不应设法拯救地球，而应设法殖民其他行星的人？嗯，我认为我们两者都应该做。是的，是的，我认为我们，嗯，你知道，我是说，我个人的某种理念现在算是分成了两部分，一部分是努力在地球相关事务上有所帮助，也就是可持续能源，另一部分是努力，你知道，推进太空技术，以便我们能在火星上建立一座自给自足的城市。但我确实认为，成为多行星物种很重要，不是只有一个行星，而是还有另一个行星，嗯

所以，而，而总体目标是将生存风险降至最低，你知道，所以，如果我们展望，展望未来，嗯，并问哪些事物会对，对人类构成风险，什么，什么，什么，什么会让未来变好而不变坏，嗯，我认为，显然，如果我们拥有一个可持续能源的未来，那是好事，嗯，而且它来得越快越好。然后，如果我们是一个多行星物种，那会让我们在面对，嗯，灭绝事件时拥有强得多的韧性，嗯，而且这也会是一场非常伟大而有趣的冒险。嗨，嗯，我叫杰达，然后，呃，我想知道，在你看来，就能源来源而言，未来会是什么样子，以及我们多快能够高效利用核聚变？谢谢。当然，嗯，关于

这种，嗯，工业，这种已安装的工业基础，呃，需要认识到的一点是，它确实极其庞大，比如道路上的，嗯，汽油车、柴油车，嗯，还有卡车的数量大约是20亿，嗯，你知道，有大概数十万座使用化石燃料的的的发电厂。所以，所以即使我们，如果今天我们极其大力地转向可再生能源，仍然需要很长时间，嗯，所以我认为，我们，我们在看到重大变化之前，大概还要10年或20年，嗯，而，呃，而那，在10年或20年里当然可能发生很多事情，嗯，所以，呃，我们能越快让那个日期提前越好。是的，嗯，嗨，呃，我叫娜塔莎，我来自可持续发展硕士项目。我有2个问题，第1个，因为我想保持乐观

我们会在某个时候，嗯，转变为完全可持续，并使用可再生能源，嗯，你认为发展中国家和发达国家之间会出现差距吗，以及发展中国家何时能够赶上发达国家，转向可持续和可再生能源？而第2个问题是，呃，在你看来核能的可持续性如何？谢谢。当然，嗯，而实际上，我应该回答核能问题，因为刚刚在这之前就有人提出了这个问题，嗯，实际上我认为，呃，像核裂变，嗯，嗯，如果它位于一个不会遭受自然灾害的地点，嗯，比如，像法国的情况，核能占比非常高，我认为那实际上是一件好事，嗯，显然你不会

想在容易遭受自然灾害的地方建核裂变发电厂，嗯，因为那显然可能出问题，嗯，所以，嗯，而，而所以我认为裂变是一个好，是一个好办法，呃，聚变也很有意思，嗯，而且看到 ITER 项目正在发生的事情令人兴奋，呃，那是一座正在法国建造的聚变发电厂，嗯，我，我，我确实认为聚变是，是一个，是一项可行的技术。我认为我们绝对能让聚变发挥作用，嗯，但是，但是它确实，它确实是一项，它算是一项很遥远的技术。所以，要让发电厂级别的聚变发挥作用，大概，我不知道，还有30年，嗯，而且，嗯，而且需要大量，大量努力，嗯，所以，所以这就是为什么，至少，你知道，目前，而且我认为甚至可能从长期来看，我都主张使用那个巨大的

天空中的聚变发电厂，它叫太阳。所以，太阳是一场巨大的核聚变爆炸，而且它每天都会出现。如果我们有，呃，用于太阳能电池板的光伏技术，我们就能捕获那种聚变能，嗯，它还需要被储存在，嗯，电池中，这样我们就能在夜间使用它，嗯，然后我们，我们希望拥有，嗯，高压输电线路，把，呃，太阳能从一个地方传输到另一个地方。所以，嗯，但需要认识到的重要一点是，比如，如果，如果假设我们拥有的唯一东西就是，就是太阳能，那，那是唯一的能源，呃，你可以，如果你只取西班牙的一小片区域，就能为整个欧洲供电。实际用于产生我们为文明供能所需的，嗯，电力的面积非常非常小，或者就美国而言

就像内华达州或犹他州的一个小角落，就能为整个美国供电。那么，晚上好，呃，您确实拥有一段非常令人印象深刻且，呃，振奋人心的职业生涯，呃，您在商业上取得了成功，同时忠于自己和自己的信念。所以我想知道，对于一位意识到气候变化问题的年轻创业者，呃，您会给出什么建议？还有，也许，您在这方面得到过的最好和最糟糕的建议是什么？谢谢。好的，嗯，我认为，如果有人，嗯，想在能源领域做些创业方面的事情，嗯，我是说，要么，要么你想创办一家公司，要么你想加入一家正在做某种，嗯，可持续事业的公司。它可以是，你知道，显然有风能、太阳能，嗯，还有地热能，也有潮汐能，嗯，所以我只想说

看看那些正在尝试发展可持续能源的公司，然后决定你是想加入它们，还是，还是想创办一家这样的公司。嗯，所以，嗯，我，我通常不会，你知道，在汽车领域或能源——比如能源领域创办公司，是一门相当棘手的生意。我是说，当，当，当我们最初创办，呃，Tesla 和 Solar City 时，呃，我们认为它们会失败。我们认为，尤其是 Tesla，我们觉得自己可能，大概只有 10% 的成功概率。所以这，嗯，你知道，尤其是，尤其是汽车，呃，你知道，作为一家汽车公司，要维持生存很难。老实说，我当时想，这肯定是风险调整后回报最差的事情之一。嗯，是的。您好，呃，我叫本杰明，我想知道，在国际，呃，

规则和政策方面，您希望采取什么措施，呃，来促进您的 Powerwall 电池的实施？嗯，其实，我一直在这里说的是，世界的治理者需要为这种外部性定价，他们需要给碳定一个恰当的价格，那么正确的行为就会自动出现。所以，通过，通过给碳定价，我们本质上是在修正，嗯，市场体系中的一个定价错误。所以，我是说，大多数时候，当政府，政府干预市场时，通常会增加定价错误，嗯，但是，但是当，当这个定价错误是一个巨大的，嗯，公地悲剧问题，就像我们在碳容量方面遇到的那样，呃，政府为它定价至关重要，因为你不可能因为给它

通过你，而你给它定的任何价格都会比接近于零更加正确，而它现在就是接近于零。嗯，所以，如果我们想加速向可持续能源的转型，嗯，这到目前为止是最重要的事情。还有其他效果较差的办法，比如为电动汽车或，或太阳能提供激励和补贴，嗯，那，那是，那是有时在政治上更便利的做法，但最好的办法就是直接通过对税和碳来修正定价错误，而且，而且这个，我想，如果你问大多数经济学家，他们也会说同样的话。所以这算是，嗯，显然在经济学界是，嗯，众所周知的。嗯，埃隆，呃，您能谈几句人工智能吗？因为，你知道，我想我，我读到过，或者你，你，你知道，你曾经

把您和其他人，比尔·盖茨、彼得·T 等人放在一起，说，你知道，您担心有一天，一台超级，你知道，智能机器会毁灭人类。而且，呃，你知道，您是否正在对人工智能投入很多，因为，你知道，因为我们是否正在浪费大量能源，因为我们使用，你知道，不够智能，或者没有智能物体之类的东西？如果，你知道，从长期来看存在一个，你知道，长期的重大风险，您又如何调和这两者？嗯，是的，我是说，我肯定想继续讨论，讨论，呃，你知道，可持续能源这个话题，嗯，因为讨论太多其他事情很容易，很容易跑题。但是，嗯，是的，我是说，我认为，我只是认为我们应该谨慎对待 AI 的到来，嗯，而且，嗯，一个

我认识的许多开发人工智能的人都太过确信，唯一的结果就是好的，嗯，而我们需要考虑可能没那么好的结果，嗯，并且，你知道，要谨慎，真的要监控正在发生的事情，并确保公众了解正在发生的事情。好的，呃，我是来自 serbon 这里 we I stood Innovation 的 Gabrielle Ron。我有一个关于融资的问题，具体来说，是关于 Tesla 所做之事的融资过程。最困难的事情是什么，呃，在一开始筹集资金，不是现在，因为现在你们已经有了一个发展完善的项目，全世界都知道你，也知道 Tesla，但在一开始，关于，呃，你们所从事的行业，关于这种能源，什么

是最困难的事情，呃，找到，呃，投资者，并且说服投资者，同时在公司的整个发展过程中坚持你一开始的想法？嗯，当然。嗯，好吧，在，在 Tesla 和 Soul City 创立初期，我是说，我当时认为成功的概率太低了，所以我提供了全部资金，因此所有资金都只是来自我个人。嗯，因为如果我认为我们会死掉，我就不想向其他投资者要钱，因为我确实认为，我认为我们会死掉。所以，嗯，所以我投入了，嗯，你知道，我从 PayPal 得到的全部资金。嗯，所有，所有这些都投入了 Tesla、Soul City 和 SpaceX。嗯，即便如此，我们也只是勉强活了下来。所以，嗯，你知道，在 200 2008 年

对于 Tesla，我们实际上是在圣诞夜完成那轮融资的，呃，2008 年。嗯，那是最后一天的最后1个小时，是还来得及的最后时刻。嗯，而且，嗯，你知道，像汽车公司这样的企业有一个棘手之处，就是会有好时候，也会有坏时候，而，而，而当经济走下坡路时，制造公司就会变得真的、真的非常棘手。嗯，所以，是的，我是说，比如在美国，历史上仅有的2家没有破产过的汽车公司是 Ford 和 Tesla，就这些。嗯，其他所有公司都破产了，或者曾在某个时候陷入破产，你知道，General motives、Chrysler 以及其他公司。所以，嗯，我认为我们只是勉强挺了过来。这些日子，过去几年，真的，我会说你这个

过去2年，Tesla 才达到这样一个阶段，嗯，它不再面临，呃，迫在眉睫的死亡。嗯，我是说，甚至就在不久前的2013年初，我们运营时手头可能只有够维持1到2周的钱。呃，你好，呃，我叫帕斯卡，我想，呃，问您，呃，您不认为我们需要对，嗯，我们的社会动态进行更深入的反思吗？嗯，因为，嗯，您谈到的所有解决方案都是关于，呃，效率的，但您不认为我们需要换一种方式思考并减少消费吗？因为现在 AIC 是关于，呃，面对问题，并始终朝着，嗯，相同的方向前进，试图找到技术创新来拯救我们。是的，我是说，我，我确实认为我们，我们应该，嗯，留意我们的消费，我们不应该浪费，嗯，但是，嗯，但但即使

我们，嗯，在能源使用方面真、真的非常节制，并且在回收利用和各种事情上都非常有效，嗯，那那那会推迟转、转向可持续未来的需要，但不会消除这种需要。嗯，比如，如果如果我们没有可持续能源生产，嗯，那那我们就不可能仅靠节约走向、走向美好的未来。嗯，我们，我们必须从根本上让，呃，可持续能源变得可用。嗯，我是说，从、从有利的一面来看，实际上有极其大量的、的可持续能源。嗯，而，嗯，太阳每、每平方公里提供的能量是1吉瓦，所以如果你只有一个1公里乘1公里的太阳能板，嗯，阵列，它就会产生，呃，它会接收到1吉瓦的太阳能，然后以、以20%的效率

你就能产生200兆瓦，嗯，所以，呃，我们实际上可以产生多得多的能源，比如可能，我不知道，是我们实际维持文明运转所需能源的100倍，仅靠太阳能板就可以。所以我们只需要、我们只需要修正世界的激励结构，确保、确保、确保、确保公司受到激励去发展可持续技术，而不是不可持续技术。这从根本上说就是问题。你好，我叫莉莉，是一名物理学博士生，在一所年大学，但我从这里毕业，所以我有3个问题。第1个有点偏政治，因为、因为您提到了这一点，您说，呃，科学家有时会，呃，产生分歧，他们有不同的意见，而且可能是的，在任何事情上都会。是的。而那也可能是因为有时候

他们由不同的公司资助。当然。而且，呃，所以您说我们应该停止宣传，我们应该，呃，呃，努力要求政治人物制定规则，以便，呃，我们会朝着更好的方向发展，您知道，不是气候，您知道，全球变暖，嗯，但，呃，所以那可能会违背，呃，石油公司的利益，但可能也会违背政府自身的利益，当它们拥有经济利益时。所以我在想，也许您，呃，自己的，嗯，我是说，也许我们自己可以拥有游说者，那么这会是，呃，也许是一种让、让，呃，那些规则得以落实的有效方式，您知道，这样这些规则、碳税就会得到实施。所以这是我的第1个问题，呃，因为您也知道，法国是核能的主要进口国之一，所以您知道，试图

要求他们征收汽车税，呃，碳税，而他们自己，呃，就是从进口，您知道，来自法国境内发电厂的核能中赚取最多钱的人。我们目前每人限提1个问题，我想是这样。所以，所以另一个问题是，您知道，可再生能源，那会很棒，但它有点、有点间歇性，您知道，比如太阳能，呃。当然。太阳能，嗯，好的，那很棒，但也许我们需要储存它，也许用锂电池，但，呃，我们、我们想、我们想使用，比如，呃，嗯。当然，是的，我明白。最后一个是化石燃料领域，我是说。是的，我是说，它难道不会自行走向终结吗，因为它不是一种无限的资源，对吧？埃隆，也许从这3个问题中选1个。当然，嗯，是的，嗯，我是说，我，我，我认为这

每一个政府都应该直接，他们、他们应该做正确的事，不要等待，不要取决于其他政府在做什么。比如，我认为，那是，您知道，在这些气、气候谈判中，国家之间存在太多这样的情况：只有另一个国家采取行动，它们才试图采取行动。嗯，我是说，如果某件事，如果它是，如果它是对未来正确、如果它是对未来正确的事，一个国家就应该直接去做，不用担心其他国家在做什么，直接做正确的事。嗯，而且许多国家正在这样做，所以这、这其实只是，您知道，我们只是想鼓励尽可能多的政府改变规则，激励一个美好的未来。这从根本上说就是必须、必须、必须发生的事，否则我们将大幅推迟摆脱 cin 的转型。

所以，嗯，而且、而且，是的，所以那、那就是、就是必须发生的事。嗯，而且，嗯，而且、而且，您知道，Tesla 和 so study，我的公司非常小，就像我们是非常、非常小的公司。所以为了大规模地，呃，转向可持续发展，嗯，那些、那些、那些巨型公司必须知道，那、那、那、那就是政府对未来的要求，也是人民对未来的要求。所以归根结底，如果，您知道，政府会回应、回应、回应、回应民众压力，比如，如果、如果你告诉政治人物，你是否投票给他们取决于他们在气候变化问题上做正确的事，那、那就会产生影响。所以如果、如果他们在举办某种筹款活动，或者一个 den of party，或者随便什么，而且在每一场筹款活动和

每一个 den of party 上，都有人问他们，嘿，你们在为气候做什么，那么他们就会采取行动。所以我认为你们拥有巨大的力量，你们、你们拥有促成改变的力量。我们不能，我们、我们不能，让我告诉你们，我们绝对无法在游说者方面击败石油和天然气行业。好吧，这、这会是一场必败之战。嗯，您知道，您知道，呃，埃克森1年的利润比美国整个太阳能行业的价值还高。所以，这就像，如果你把美国的每一家太阳能公司都算上，它们的总价值还不及埃克森1年的利润。你不可能靠钱获胜，这是不可能的。晚上好，先生，我只有1个小问题，但非常现实，呃，您认为 cup 21 会成功吗？您知道，我，我，我有

我对此没有任何真正的依据，但我感觉很好，嗯，我、我确实对此感觉很好。所以我、我认为，嗯，成功会有不同的程度。所以这有点像，嗯，比如，哥本哈根会议非常糟糕，哥本哈根会议什么、什么成果都没有，那次哥本哈根气、气候谈判。我是说，它基本上，我认为，那次会议的结果是全球变暖出现了净增长，嗯，很不幸。嗯，就巴黎谈判而言，我、我认为会有一些积极进展，问题在于程度如何。嗯，而且我认为我们需要向、向谈判团队和政治人物发出明确的信息，即这一次必须有重大改变，这一次必须发生些什么。有一个问题，所有……

最上面那边。你好，感谢您的到来，我叫玛丽亚，是这里的一名国际关系专业学生。我要问您的问题是这样的：我们知道气候是全球性的、共同的福祉，那么我们怎样才能让经济高度依赖化石燃料的国家参与应对气候变化，也就是，呃，我们怎样才能让那些损失最大的人参与进来？谢谢。嗯，我、我认为，我认为我们只需要把这个论点反过来说，比如，看，这、这是共同的福祉。嗯，而且，呃，如果、如果、如果我们，如果、如果各国不采取行动，它们都将在、在一个糟糕的未来中共同承受后果。所以，呃，它们需要，每个人都需要采取行动，并且、并且关心未来、未来会是什么样。嗯，并且以身作则。嗯，所以，即使是那些、那些相当

依赖、依赖化石燃料的国家，嗯，如果它们只是改变税收结构，它们也可以摆脱这种依赖，而且不会以一种对经济造成巨大破坏的方式进行。嗯，这其实只是以同样的税收总额进行征收的问题，但、但更多地向，呃，我们认为、那是，呃，人们认为最有可能有害的事物倾斜，而不是向最有可能有益的事物倾斜。嗯，而且我们已经在这样做了，在，您知道，在、在，呃，在我们的税法中，我们对酒精和香烟征收的税远高于对水果和蔬菜征收的税。这只是有点像明智的事情、明智的做法，而且没有人，您知道，你不会，而且你不会听到，您知道，有国家说，嗯，我们生产很多水果，您知道，我们生产很多水果和蔬菜，所以，比如，我们、我们想要低

税收，或者我们生产大量酒精、烟草，我们想要，你知道，降低税收，像那样的争论很愚蠢，它已经过去了，嗯，而且而且我认为同样的道理也适用于碳排放，只要只要调整税法，随着时间推移，正确的事情就会发生，而且如果如果税率随时间逐步提高，而且你知道，它一开始很低，未来会变得显著，那么即使你今天严重依赖 cin，这这这这条关于看清未来会发生什么的信息，也会对呃任何特定国家的经济运行方式产生巨大影响，所以嗯，所以所以它们之后将不再依赖 cin，因为激励结构变了，所以我真的不认为它们在这里会有什么可失去的，也不认为采取行动会有什么可失去的，而

不采取行动则会损失很多。我们也许还有时间再问2个或3个问题，所以这里有一位。你好，呃，我的问题是关于电池的。所以今天的电动电……电池，尤其是锂离子电池，有显著的碳足迹，并且可能对环境和我们的健康造成影响，而环境影响从消耗品转移到了我们如何生产，以及我们如何储存由此产生的废弃物。因此，呃，它与化石燃料之间的差距可能没有我们想象的那么大。所以我的问题是，你如何回应这一点？你认为这在未来几年会如何演变？嗯，所以我不确定我完全理解这个问题，你能再说一遍吗？可以，基本上，呃，就是当今我们的电池使用方式对环境的影响

锂，锂离子电池的生产，以及你如何把它与化石燃料及其影响相比较，因为这更多是关于生产、我们如何利用废弃物以及我们如何储存废弃物。那么你如何看待这一点？未来几年将如何对此进行优化，或者这会改变吗？是的，嗯，重要的是，比如一旦你一旦制造出一块电池，嗯，那么在电池寿命结束时，你可以回收那些组件。所以它是，它是一个，它是某种，嗯，你知道，对碳循环没有长期影响，或者长期影响可以忽略不计的东西，嗯，因为你，你基本上，嗯，获得诸如锂、镍、钴，嗯，然后，嗯，然后你制造、制造电池，你基本上只需获得那些材料1次，然后再回收它们

永远，嗯，所以，呃，我，我认为，电池对环境的影响其实真的微不足道，嗯，而且，呃，是的，嗯，而且相比之下，每年开采和燃烧，嗯，数十亿吨碳，呃，这，这，嗯，实际上从人类的角度来看，会永久影响海洋和大气中的碳，碳，呃，含量。所以，是的，嗯，我们所谈的，化石燃料和电池之间确实存在数量级上的差异，就像，甚至完全不在同一个尺度上。好的，那么最后一个。呃，你好，所以我的问题是，嗯，考虑到技术现在正处于某种临界点，呃，它很先进，但还没有先进到足以转向，呃，可持续清洁能源，你如何看待这种清洁……的整合

能源在未来长期内的整合，也许是一步一步地？我如何看待这种整合？我如何看待我们走向可持续能源的未来？是的，是的，清洁能源将如何，呃，将如何融入，融入社会，同时考虑到技术还不先进，呃？当然。嗯，我是说，我，我，我预计，嗯，你知道，随着时间推移，所有交通运输都会完全电动化，具有讽刺意味的例外是火箭，嗯，而且，呃，然后所有，呃，能源生产都会随着时间推移变得可持续，嗯，这将需要，这将需要很长时间，许多个十年，嗯，但是，嗯，你知道，它呈现自身的方式将是人们在家中或公用事业变电站配备电池，嗯，并且驾驶，嗯，你知道，电动汽车，嗯，还有电动飞机。但是，嗯，正如我所说，这，这是，这

将会是一个相当、非常缓慢的转型，嗯，因为激励结构如此偏向于不利于可持续能源。所以，嗯，事实上，即使，我认为，即使政府由于，由于巴黎的气候谈判而采取相当有力的行动，我认为这仍将是，嗯，一个以数十年衡量的转型。所以它将会是，它将会是一个缓慢的，一个缓慢的转型，嗯，而，嗯，而且，根本问题是，如，如何加速这一转型，那才是这里真正的问题，嗯，我们可以采取什么行动来加速向美好未来的转型，嗯，这就是为什么我如此，如此反复强调收入中性的碳税这一理念。我认为这是每个国家都可以实施的，嗯，而且可以分级并分阶段

逐步推行，而这，这是加速向美好未来转型远为最有效的举措。好的，请。好了，嗯，谢谢大家。好了。

hi good evening everybody first of all uh I'm Nadia jakobi I'm the vice president of this university ponon soan university and first of all I would like to thank you all for joining us for coming here and also to apologize to uh the others who couldn't join because we were fully booked very quickly actually when we launched the invitation uh they can follow uh the live stream if they are not here and you can find the video tomorrow morning on YouTube so we are pretty well organized actually well uh actually today is a very special day for our University uh we are extremely proud and I'm particularly very proud to welcome tonight someone very special someone who is probably one of the most influential person of the 20th and 21st centuries someone who is

definitely the most creative mind of his generation he is the co-founder and CEO of a revolutionary car manufacturer challenging the mainstream car industry but is is also the founder and CEO of a tremendously Innovative company actually the first private company to launch and return a spacecraft from orbit and last but not least also the chairman of the larger solar energy provider in the US through his different activities he is uh facing environmental social and economic challenges it deals with breaking projects on diverse issues like green Mobility clean and renewable sources of energy space exploration so on and so forth by the way among the latest news here done here in France in Europe you probably heard that yesterday was inaugurated a new solar

firm in the Sou France something which is definitely or actually the biggest of Europe now selling power at a cost well below the cost of power from the new generation of nuclear reactors and able to provide energy power for more than 50,000 households but also and moreover currently Paris is uh welcoming the UN climate change conference which faces the high take of how to manage with the climatic disruption the aim of the cup 21 is keeping warming below the two degrees Celsius compar with the pre-industrial Hera and for that the objective of the cup is to build a Paris climate alliens a universal climate agreement committing everyone so in that context who better than Elan mask for conversation with you please welcome Elon Musk thank you all right all

right well it's thank you for having me it's great to be here um uh Paris is one of my favorite places in the world and and it's actually the uh on the first trip that I went out of South Africa uh Paris that that was where I went and when I when I was a little kid well my my parents brought me when I was like six years old um so I've L Paris ever since um so thank you for having me what I'm going to talk about today is just in general terms uh what is needed to address the the the climate crisis um and this is a thing that if if if we if we do what actions can we take that that will accelerate the transition out of uh the fossil fuel era um so where we are today is U let's see if this thing's working maybe not okay all right we have the we have the present

era where we have the the carbon cycle and my apologies if if some of you already know all about this but I think some of these things are maybe not as obvious as they may seem so there's a certain amount of carbon that is circulating through the environment so it's going into the air being absorbed by and then getting absorbed by plants and animals um and then going back into the air and this this carbon is just circulating on the surface um and this this is fine and it's been doing that for Millions hundreds of millions of years uh the the thing that's changed is that we've added something to the mix so this is what I would call the the sort of the turd in the punch ball um so the we added all this extra carbon to to the Caron cycle and the net result

is that uh the the Caron in the ocean's atmosphere is growing over time it's much more than can be absorbed by the ecosystem it's it's really it's really quite simple we're taking uh billions of tons of carbon that's been buried for hundreds of millions of years years um and is not part of the Caron cycle taking it from deep underground and adding it to the Caron cycle the result is that a steady increase in the the Caron in the atmosphere and in the Ocean Oceans which doesn't look like much if you look at it on this chart but when looked at in the context of of History it actually looks like this so the the carbon P million has really been bouncing around the 300 level for around 10 million years um and then the last few hundred years it went into a

vertical climb this this is the the essence of the problem this is very unusual um and and a and a very very extreme threat as you can see from from this rate of growth then this is accompanied by a temperature increase as one would expect and uh and and and this temperature increase you people talk about two degrees or or 3 degrees it's important to appreciate just how sensitive the the climate actually is to uh to temperature and it's important to look at it in terms of absolute temperature not um in degrees celsius relative to zero we need to say what is the temperature change relative to absolute zero that's how the universe thinks about temperature that's how physics thinks about temperature it's it's relative to absolute zero so for small changes

result in in huge effects uh so New York City Under Ice would be minus 5° New York city under water would be plus 5° but looked at in in a as a percentage relative to absolute zero it's only a plusus 2% change so the the sensitivity of the climate is extremely extremely high um we've Amplified this sensitivity by building our cities right on the on the coastline and most most people live very close to to the ocean some countries of course that are they're very low Ling and would be completely uh underwater in in a in a climate crisis so the the we've essentially designed civilization to be super sensitive to climate change um and the the the important thing to appreciate is that we are going to exit the fossil fuels era so it it is it is inevitable that

we will exit the phosph era because at a certain point we will simply run out of uh carbon to mine and burn so the question is really when when do we exit the era not not if the goal is to exit the era as quickly as possible that means we need to move from from the old goal uh with a pre-industrial go goal which was to move from uh choing down forests and uh killing lots of whales um that the old goal was to move from from chopping wood and and killing whales to uh fossil fuels which actually in that context was a good thing but the new goal is to move to a sustainable energy future and we want to use things like uh Hydro solar wind geothermal nucleus is also a good option in um places like France which don't aren't subject to natural disasters um and

and we want to use energy sources that will be good for for a billion years so how do we accelerate this transition away from fossil fuels to a sustainable era and and and and what happens if we don't so if we if we wait uh and if we delay the change um the best case the best case is is is simply delaying that inevitable transition to sustainable energy so this is the this is the best case if we don't take action now um at the risk of being repetitive it's there's going to be no choice in the long term to move to sustainable energy it's it's tological we have to have sustainable energy or we'll simply run out of the other one so the the only thing we gain by slowing down the transition is is is just slowing it down it doesn't doesn't make it not occur

it just slows it down the worst case however is more displacement and destruction than all the wars in history combined okay this is these are these are the best worst case scenarios so then we have you about 3% of scientists that believe in the best case about 97% that believe in the worst case this is why I call it the dumbest experiment in history ever why would you do this so the the reason that the the the transition is delayed or or or is happening slowly is because there is a hidden subsidy on all carbon producing activity in a healthy Market if you have say 10 EUR of benefit and four of har to societ the profit would be6 just sort of you know makes OB obvious sense this is where the incentives are aligned with a good future this is not this is

not the case today um but if you have the incentives aligned then the forcing function towards a a good future towards a sustainable energy future will be powerful in an unhealthy Market you have your 10 of benefit you have your four years but the four doesn't isn't t so you have untaxed negative externality this is basically economics 101 so you have basically unreasonable profit and a forcing function to uh to do carbon emitting activity because this this this cost to society is not being paid the net result is 35 gigatons of carbon per year into the atmosphere so the this is analogous to not paying for garbage collection um and it's it's not as though we we should say in the case of garbage have a garbage-free society it's very difficult to have a

garbage free Society but it's just important that people pay for the garbage collection so we need to go from having untaxed negative externality and which is effectively a hidden carbon subsidy of enormous size uh 5.

3 trillion dollar a year according to the IMF every year um we need to move away from this uh and and and and have a carbon tax so but this is being this is being fought quite hard by the uh the carbon producers um and they're using tactics that are very similar to what the uh cigarette industry or the toac industry used for many years um they would they would take the approach of having of of even though the overwhelming scientific consensus was that uh smoking cigarettes was bad for you uh they would find a few scientists that would disagree and then they would say look scientists disagree so that that's essentially how they would try to trick the public into thinking that smoking is not that bad the solution obviously is to remove the subsidy U so

that means we need to have a a Caron tax and to make it sort of something which is neither a left nor a right issue we should make it probably a revenue neutral carbon tax so this would be a case of increasing taxes on carbon but then reducing taxes in in other places so maybe there would be a reduction in sales tax or vat and an increase in carbon tax so that uh only those using high levels of carbon would pay an increased tax and moreover this I mean in order to give uh industry time to react uh this could be a phased in approach so that maybe it takes 5 years before the the carbon taxes are very high so that means that only companies that don't take action today will suffer in 5 years but there needs to be a clear message from from government in this

regard the the because the fundamental problem is the rules today incent people to create carbon and this is madness and what have you incent will happen that that's why you know we we're seeing little very little effect uh thus far and depending upon how what what action we take will will will drive the the Caron number to either extreme or or moderate levels um I I think it's pretty much a given that that the two degree C increase will occur the question is whether it's going to be much more than that not if there will be a two degree increase um so the then the question is so what can you do I would say whenever you have the opportunity talk to your politicians ask them to enact a carbon tax we we have to fix the unpriced externality I talk to your

friends about it and fight the propaganda from the carbon industry so that that's the basic message I have and I'm happy to take questions so we have we have some mics in the audience being passed around do you want to raise your hand and we'll give you a mic hi sir I'm pass from the master of inter Innovation and Technology man management and my question is what do you say to those who think there are more important concerns right now than climate change and global warming sure um I mean there's definitely there are many important issues in the world um this is not the only important issue um but it is I think the thing that will have the biggest um negative effect on Humanity if we do not address it um I mean based on on the the projections that we're

seeing right now these are like I'd say arguably best case projections we're going to see significant rises in temperature and sea level um the the net result is if if we don't take action uh we could see you know anywhere from 5 to 10% maybe maybe more of the land mass absorbed by water uh which would which is maybe not doesn't sound like that much but about a third of humanity lives right on the on the Coastline or in lowline countries so we' be talking about maybe 2 billion people being displaced um and and their home is being destroyed and their country is being gone so I think we should take action hello sir thank you for coming here uh my question is um I'm PhD student in marketing and what I study is what motivates people to participate in challenges

now you have created a company which creates challenges which brought which brought a rocket to moon and back if I if I'm not wrong my question would be do you think a challenge um maybe not moon and back right yeah not quite getting there getting there my question to you would be do you think that incentives which is the biggest incentive to use monetary incentives are the best possible incentive to get people to participate and solve the world's biggest problems or do you think people can do it um in order to just help everyone on the planet and make it better so is money the only way to um ask people to get in and solve challenges or do you have other ways to actually motivate people to participate um I I I think there there's definitely a philanthropic

element um and there's the you know I think there's I think in general uh people want to do the right thing and they want to do what's good um the uh the issue we have right now is that the the rules fundamentally favor the bad outcome so when you're fighting for the good outcome and it's an uphill battle um it it it's just it's just slower um so with respect to to climate change it's just critical that the government and the government is the setter of rules the government decides what rules companies will will play by and if we currently have a system which uh massively incense bad behavior so e even if most people don't do the bad behavior some people will still do the bad behavior yeah I mean money and prices are prices are basically just an information

mechanism they're just they're just basically they tell you that it's it I mean money's mostly um an information mechanism for lab labor allocation and for you know to and sort of tells companies what to do so it's just critical this is why it's so critical to be that action be taken at a government level because the government is the one they're setting the rules of the game and and it's just crazy to have the rules of the game favor uh a bad outcome question up top there there's a question here hi el musk uh my name is Michelle I'm an undergrad in economics here at peris sbon uh P sban my question is um there are some new studies on um removing um carbon dioxide dioxide from the atmosphere and burrowing deep uh in the ocean do you think it's um a sustainable

solution and why thank you you know I'm I'm not aware of any uh carbon sequestration or carbon storage system that is that that that works um and works economically um and and I definitely wouldn't want to I we wouldn't want to store the carbon in the ocean because of possible acidification um you know as the as the carbon as the CO2 levels rise in the atmosphere uh some of that is absorbed um into the ocean becomes carbonic acid um and a lot of the shellfish in particular are super sensitive to changes in in pH level um so I I would definitely or against uh trying to store it in the ocean there potentially you could try to store some of it in giant underground Caverns but the the sheer quantity we're talking about I I don't think can be stored anywhere

um there's just there's just no nowhere to store it yeah question hello sir uh I'm studying management at paron and I would know how long do you do Tesla Motors intends to use lithium batteries knowing that it is not a limited resource um well actually I think so so lithium in terms of energy storage lithium I think is is definitely the future and will be for a long time um there's actually not a shortage of lithium on Earth uh so lithium is you know number three on the periodic table it's actually extremely common any salty water has has lithium um so there definitely won't be a lithium constraint on um energy storage for batteries um so I feel pretty confident that um one could make enough batteries to store all the energy that the world needs with

the current resources that are that are available yeah hello my name is idin vadi I am PhD student in project and infrastructure Finance in sbon first of all I would like to thank you for your latest product uh po wall which to me it gives to the citizens to have the power to select the way they can uh consumed energy I can spend few thousand dollars to buy a uh some solar panel and the power wall and uh to be free of uh uh any offer in the market my question is uh about the the larg scale storage systems you have designed have you received any serious involvement from governments and uh large companies to develop such uh uh such infrastructure or do you have any serious plans within within the United States or maybe in other countries uh for for large

energy storage yeah we do actually we've got a number of um uh very very big storage um projects underway with utilities around the world um so both in the US and outside um the the thing that's interesting about the energy storage uh situation is that even even without uh Renewables there's a there's a huge potential to make the energy grid more efficient and to be able to shut down the the the heaviest polluting power plants um because the the energy consumption through the day usually uh changes by a factor of two or more so and since with the exception of of hydroelectric you can't store the power it has to be available in real time the world has somewhere between two to three times as many power plants as it actually needs so if you can buffer the

power with uh big big stationary battery packs um then uh you can actually shut down the the the worst half of the uh power plants in the world so I think that's that's sort of a very exciting thing that I think a lot of people don't appreciate um and I think it's it's going to make make a big difference you hi sir I'm Camy from the master degree Innovation and Technology man management and uh my question is do you believe that in the ability of government international government to prevent climate change and what would you suggest um yeah absolutely I think I think this fundamentally is a government issue um so it's it's it's the as as mentioned the government is the one that sets the rules of the game that they set um you know how companies are rewarded

financially and so in the absence of government uh actually establishing some kind of a common TX or potentially a CA trade on carbon um which I was very excited to see that China announced earlier this year that they were going to do that um unless the government does something to fix the market mechanism um the it it's it's we're fundamentally going to have a very slow transition um out of the fossil fuel era so it's it's critical that um government action changed the incentive structure um yeah and and that that' be very clear and so it's like I think hopefully what comes out of this out of these the climate talks in Paris is uh that that the governments of the world say that they put their foot down and they say 5 years from now let's say there has

to be a huge change um and um and and that companies know for sure that this is going to happen um and if they if they do then the the investment decisions they make today will will will bear fruit in five years so the um for for heavy industrial applications or or for heavy industry you you kind of know what the world's going to look like in 5 years if you know what PL what what uh What factories are being built today because if you build a really big Factory to get to full production takes about 5 Years From from the start and so since we know that today there are very few uh sustainable energy projects at large scale that are that are being built um we know that unless something changes very quickly um the sustainable energy will still be in a bad

situation 5 years from now so um you know I mean there there are companies like you know at Tesla and Solar City were quite ideologically motivated um but um but that's that's relatively unusual so hian my name is Thomas um what do you think about people who are saying then rather than trying to save the Earth we should try to colonize other planets well I think we should do both yeah yeah I think we um you know the I mean my sort of personal ideology is is kind of split right now between trying to be helpful on earth related stuff which is sustainable energy and then trying to you know Advance space technology so we can establish a self- sustaining City on Mars but I do think it's important to be a multiplet not just one planet but another planet um

so the and and the overarching goal is to minimize existential risk you know so if we look out look out into the future um and say what are the things that pose a risk to to humanity to what what what what's what is going to make the future good versus bad um and I think if obviously if we have a sustainable energy future that's good um and the faster that comes the better and then if we're a multiplet species that gives us much more resilience um against Extinction event um and also would be a really great and fun adventure hi um my name is jeda and U I wanted to know in your opinion what would the future will look like in term in energy sources and how soon could we use nuclear fusion efficiently thank you sure um well the the thing to appreciate about

the um indust the sort of installed industrial base uh is that it's it's really enormous like the number of um petrol and diesel cars on the road um and trucks is about two billion um you know there are sort of hundreds of thousands of of of power plants using fossil fuels so the the even if we if today we went super hard in the direction of Renewables it would still take a long time um so I think we we it's before we see significant change is probably 10 or 20 years um and uh and that's there's a lot that can happen in 10 or 20 years of course um so uh the the faster we can bring that date forward the better yeah um hi uh my name is Natasha I'm from the master program of sustainable development I have two questions first one because I want to be optimistic

that we are going to switch um at some point to be completely sustainable and to use renewable energies um do you think that there are going to be a gap between developing in developed countries that and When developing countries will be able to reach developed ones switching into sustainable and renewable energies and second one would be uh sustainability of nuclear energy in your opinion thank you sure um and I actually I should answer the nuclear question because that was posed just just before this um I actually think that uh like nuclear fision um um if it's in a location that is not subject to natural disasters um like like in the case of France there's a very high percentage of nuclear I think that's actually a good thing um obviously you don't

want to have nuclear fision power plants in places that are subject to natural disasters um because that obviously can go wrong um so um and and so I think fision is a good is a good approach uh Fusion is also interesting um and it's exciting to see what's happening with the iter project uh which is a fusion plant that's being built in France um I I I do think Fusion is is a is a feasible technology I think we can definitely make fusion work um the but but it is it is a it is kind of a far off technology so to to make fusion at the power plant level work is probably I don't know 30 years away um and um and a lot of lot of effort um so the that's why in in at least you know for now and I think maybe even in the long term I'm a proponent of using the big

fusion power plant in the sky called the Sun so that the sun is a giant Fusion explosion and it it shows up every day and if we have uh photov voltaics for solar panels we can capture that Fusion Energy um it also needs to be stored um in batteries so we can use it at night um and then we we want to have um high power lines to transfer uh solar energy from one place to another so um but the important thing to appreciate is like if if let's say the only thing we had was was solar energy that that was the only power source uh you could if you just took a small section of of Spain you could power all of Europe it's it's a very small amount of area that's actually needed to generate the um electricity we need to power civilization or in the case of the US

like a little corner of Nevada or Utah Power the entire United States so good evening uh you you do have a very impressive and uh stimulating career uh you succeeded in business while staying true to yourself and beliefs so I would like to know what advice you would give to a young entrepreneur uh who is aware of climate change issues and maybe uh what was the best and the worst advice you are given about that thank you okay um well I think if somebody's um wants to do something entrepreneurial in energy um I mean either either you want to start a company or you want to join a company that's doing something um sustainable um and it could be you know there's there's obviously wind solar um and uh the geothermal there's tidal power um so I would just say

look at companies that are trying to do sustainable energy and decide if you want to join them or or if you want to start one um so um I I generally wouldn't you know starting companies in in either the automotive Arena or the energ like Energy Arena is like quite a tricky business I mean when when when we first started uh Tesla and Solar City uh we thought they would fail we thought and Tesla in particular we thought probably we have uh maybe 10% chance of success so it's um you know particularly particularly cars uh the you know it's it's it's hard to stay alive as a car company honestly I was like it must be one of the worst risk adjusted returns um yeah hi uh my name is Benjamin and I was wondering what do you wish for in terms of international uh

rules and politics uh to facilitate the implementation of your power wall battery well um it's really the what I've been saying here is that the that um the governance of the world need to price the the externality they need to put put a profer price on carbon and then automatically the right Behavior will occur so this is by by putting a price on carbon we we're essentially fixing um a pricing error in the market market system so I mean most of the times when government governments intervene in markets it's usually increases the pricing error um but in but when when the pricing error is a huge um tragedy the common issue like we have with carbon capacity uh it's critical that the government put a price on it because you just can't go wrong by put it

by you and any price you put on it will be more right than than close to zero which it is right now um so this is this is by far the most important thing if we want to accelerate the transition uh to sustainable energy um there are other less effective ways by providing incentives and subsidies to say electric cars or or solar um that that is that is a sometimes more politically expedient way to do it but the best way is just to directly fix the pricing error by tax and carbon and and this is I like if you ask most economists they would say the same thing so this is sort of um well well known in obviously in the economics World um elen uh could you say a few words on artificial intelligence because you know I think I I read or you you you know you were

quoted among with others Bill Gates and Peter T and so forth saying that you know you were afraid of the that one day an hyper you know intelligent machine would destroy humanity and uh you know are you investing a lot into artificial intelligence with you know because are we wasting a lot of energy because we're using you know with not being smart or with not having smart objects and so forth and how do you reconcile the two if you know there's a there's long time you know longterm major risk for us um yeah I mean definitely want to stay stay on the uh you know sustainable energy topic um because it's it's easy to get get derailed on too many other things but um yeah I mean I think I just think we should be cautious about the Advent of AI um and um a

lot of the people that I know that are developing AI are too convinced that that the only outcome is good um and we need to consider potentially uh less good outcomes um and to you know to be careful and and and and really to monitor what's happening and make sure the public is aware of what's happening okay uh I'm Gabrielle Ron from uh we I stood Innovation here in serbon I have a question about fundraising specifically about the fundraising process regarding what Tesla does uh what is the most difficult thing to uh raise funds in the beginning not now because now you you have a welldeveloped project and the worldwide knows you and knows Tesla also but in the beginning about uh the the the industry that you are working about the this kind of energy what

is the most difficult thing to uh find uh investors and also to convince investors and keep what you thought in the beginning uh throughout the development of the company um sure um well in in the beginning um in the beginning of Tesla and and Sol City I mean I thought the the probability of success was was so low that I I provided all of the money so all of the money was just came from me personally um because I didn't want to ask people other investors for money if I thought we were going to die because I thought I thought we would so um so I invested um you know entirely the money that I got from PayPal um all of all of that got invested into Tesla Soul City and and SpaceX um and and even then we we only narrowly survived so um you know in 200 2008

for Tesla we actually closed the financing round on Christmas Eve uh 2008 um it was the last hour of the last day that it was possible um and um you know this is one of the tricky things with with something like a car company is like there there there are good times and bad times and and and when the economy goes south then that's when things get really really tricky for a Manufacturing Company um so yeah I mean in in the US for example like the only two car companies that haven't gone bankrupt in history are Ford and Tesla that's it um everybody else is bankrupt or in bankrupt at some point you know General motives Chrysler and and others so um so I think we we just made it by the skin of our teeth these days last few years it's really i' say you the

last two years is is when Tesla's achieved a level where um it's not facing uh imminent death um I mean even as recently as as early 2013 we were operating with maybe one to two weeks of money uh hi uh my name is Pascal and I would uh like to ask you uh don't you think that we need a deeper reflection um about uh our Dynamic of society um because um all the solution that you talking talking about is about uh efficiency but don't you think that we need to think differently and consume less because right now AIC is about uh confronting problems and going always in the um same direction and trying to find the technological innovation to save us yeah I mean I I do think we we should be um watch our consumption we shouldn't be wasteful um but um but but even

if we um are re really uh conservative in our use of energy and are very effective with Recycling and all sorts of things um that that that delays the TR the need to move to a sustainable future but it doesn't eliminate it um like if if we don't have sustainable energy Generation Um that that there's no way that we can conserve our way to to a good future um we we have to fundamentally make uh sustainable energy available um I mean on the on the plus side that there's actually an enormous amount of of sustainable energy um and the um the energy from the Sun per per square kilometer is a gwatt so if you just had a 1 kilometer by 1 kilm um array of solar panels it would be generating well it would be receiving a gwatt of solar energy then at at a 20% efficiency

you'd be generating 200 megawatts um so uh we can actually generate way more energy like probably I don't know 100 times more energy than we actually need to operate civilization just with solar panels so we just we just need to fix the incentive structure of the world to make sure that that that that companies are are incented towards sustainable versus unsustainable technology this is fundamentally the problem hello my name is Lily and I'm a PhD physics student a year University but I graduated here so I have three questions so the first one is sort of political because because you mentioned it you said that uh scientists sometimes they uh diverge they have different opinions and it's probably yes on anything yeah and that's also probably because sometimes

they are financed by different corporations sure and uh so you said we should stop the propaganda we should uh uh try to ask the politicians to set the rules so that uh we will go in a better Direction you know not climate you know global warming um but uh so that probably goes against uh the interest of oil companies but as well probably the governments themselves when they have a financial interest so I was thinking perhaps your uh own um I mean perhaps we could have lobbyists ourselves so that would be uh perhaps an efficient way to to have uh those rules put into uh you know so the these rules the carbon tax would be applied so that's my first question uh because also you know France is one of the U main importer of nuclear energy so you know trying

to ask them for a tax car uh carbon tax when themselves uh are the the people who are making the most money from importing you know nuclear energy from power plants that are in France we li to one question per person for now I thinkk so so the other question was you know renewable energy that' be great but it's kind kind of intermittent you know like solar uh sure solar energy um okay that's great but perhaps we need to store it with perhaps with lithium batteries but uh we we want we want to use like uh um sure yeah I see the last one was the fossil fuel area I mean yeah I mean is it not going to go to an end on its own because it's not an unlimited resource right maybe pick one out of the three questions Elon sure um yeah um I mean I I I think it's

you each government should just they they should do the right thing without waiting without depending upon what other governments are doing like the I think that's you know there's too much in these CL climate talks of of countries like trying to only do things if another country does it um I mean if some if it's if it's the right if it's the right thing for the future a country should just do it and don't worry about what other countries are doing just do the right thing um and many of the countries are so it's it's really just you know we just want to encourage as many governments as possible to change the rules to incent a good future that this is fundamentally what what what has to happen or we will substantially delay the transition away from cin

so um and and yeah so that that's that's what has to happen um and um and and you know Tesla and so study that my companies are very tiny like we're tiny tiny companies so the in order for there to be a big move uh towards sustainability um the the the giant companies have to know that that that that is what the governments are demanding for the future and that's what the people are demanding for the future so at the end of the day if you know the governments respond to to to to to popular pressure like if if you tell politicians that that your vote depends on them doing the right thing with climate change that that makes a difference so if if they're having sort of a a fundraising event or a den of party or whatever and at every fundraising event and

every den of party somebody's asking them hey what are you doing about the climate then they will take action so I think you have tremendous power you you have the power to make the change we can't we we can't let me tell you we definitely can't beat the oil and gas industry on lobbyists okay this is that that would be a losing battle um you know the you know uh Exxon makes more profit in a year than the value of the entire solar industry in the United States so it's it's like if you take every Solar Company in the United States it's less than exxon's profit in one year there's no way you can win on money it's impossible good evening sir I have just one small question but very actual uh do you think the cup 21 will be a success you know I I am I I have

I don't have any real basis for this but I have a good feeling about it um I I do have a good feeling about it so I I think well it's going to be degrees of success so it's sort of like um like for example like the Copenhagen was was terrible like nothing nothing came out of Copenhagen the Copenhagen CL climate talks I mean it was basically I think there was a net increase in global warming as a result of that one um unfortunately um in the case of the Paris talks I I think there will be some positive movement and it's a question of what degree um and I think we need to send a clear message to the the negotiating teams and to the politicians that this time there needs to be significant change this time it something needs to happen there's a question all

the way up on the top hello and thank you for coming my name is Maria and I'm a student of international relations here my question to you is this we know that climate is a global a common good so how do we get countries with economies relying heavily on fossil fuels on board with climate change which uh like how do we get those who have the most to lose on board thank you um I I think I think we just need to turn that argument around and say like look this this is a common good um and uh if if if we if if countries don't take action that they all will share in in a bad future so uh that they need that everyone needs to take action and and care about what what the future is going to hold um and lead by example um so and even countries that that are quite

dependent on on fossil fuels um if they just change their tax structure they can they can move away from that in in a in a way that's not super disruptive to the economy um it's really just a question of collecting like the same amount of taxes but but weighted towards uh things that we that's that U people believe are most likely to be bad instead of things that are most likely to be good um and we do this already in you know in in uh in our tax code we we tax alcohol and cigarettes much more than we tax fruits and vegetables it's just sort of the sensible things sensible thing to do and nobody you know you don't and you don't hear you know countries saying well we make lots of fruit you know we make lots of fruits and vegetables so like we we want low

taxes or we make lots of Alcohol Tobacco we want you know lower taxes like that's a silly debate that it's gone um and and I think the same thing applies to to carbon emissions just just adjust the tax code and the right thing will happen over time and if if it's graduated over time and you know it starts off small and become significant in the future then even if you're heavily dependent on cin today the that that that that message of of seeing what's going to happen in the future will have a huge impact on uh on the way that that any given country's economy works so um so so they will then become not dependent on cin because of the incentive structure so I really don't think they have anything to lose here and anything to lose by taking action and a

lot to lose by not taking action we have time for maybe two or three more questions so there's one right here hi uh my question is about batteries so electric B batteries today especially lithium ion have a significant carbon footprint and potential impact on both the environment and our health and the environmental impact moves away from consumables and to how the way how we produce and how we store the waste that comes from it so uh the Gap with fossil fuels might not be as wide as we think so my question how do you respond to this and how do you see this evolving in the next years um so I'm not sure I totally understand that question could you say that again yeah basically uh the the impact on the environment of uh today our ways of electrical batteries

lithium the production of lithium ion batteries and how you equate this with fossil fuel and its impact as it's more about the production and how we use the waste and how we store the waste and so how do you see this how is this going to be optimized in the next years or is this going to change yeah well the important thing is like once you once you've built a battery um then at the end of life of the battery you can recycle those components so it's it's a it's it's something that um you know has no long-term or negligible long-term impact on the carbon cycle um because you you essentially um you get the sort of the lithium nickel Cobalt um and um and you create create the battery you create essentially get those materials once and then you recycle them

forever um so uh I I think the the it's really a negligible impact for for for batteries on the environment um and uh yeah um and and as compared to carbon producing Mining and buring um billions of tons of carbon every year uh which which um effectively permanently from from a human standpoint affects the carbon the carbon uh content of the oceans and atmosphere so yeah um it's it's really we're talking orders of magnitude difference between uh fossil fuels and batteries like not not even on the same scale okay then the last one uh hello so my question is um taking into consideration that technology now is at some of a Breaking Point uh it is Advanced but not so Advanced to pass uh to the sustainable clean energy how do you see this integration of clean

energy in for long term in the future step by step maybe how do I see the integration how do I see us getting to a sustainable energy future yes yes how uh will uh will the clean energy integrate into into a society thinking into consideration that technology isn't Advanced uh sure well I mean I I I expect um you know all transport to go fully electric over time with the ironic exception of rockets um and uh and then all uh energy production to go sustainable over time um this will take this will take a long time many decades um but um you know the way it'll manif itself is by people having batteries in their homes or at the utility substation um and by driving um you know electric vehicles um and having electric planes but um as I said that this is this

is going to be quite a very slow transition um because the incentive structure is so biased against sustainable energy so um in fact even I think even if there's quite a strong action by government uh as a result of of the the climate talks in Paris I think it's still going to be um a transition that's measured in decades so it will be it will be a slow a slow transition um and um and and the fundamental question is H how do we accelerate that transition that that's the real question here um what actions can we take that would accelerate a transition to a good future um and that's why I'm so so harping on this notion of a a revenue neutral carbon tax I think that's something that that every country can Implement um and it can be graduated and phased in

over time and this is this will be by far the most effective thing uh for accelerating that transition to a good future okay please all right well thank you everyone all right