所以［音乐］嘿［音乐］［掌声］［音乐］这几位就是负责这个节目的人，这是我们的主编凯尔，这是创意总监伊森·尼科尔，好吧，所以我是说，呃，好吧，我想在我们开始之前，比如，呃，也许你们可以告诉我，比如这个，你知道，V 是怎么开始的，还有，对，还有还有，呃，对，你们是怎么回事，以及为什么，为什么你们会在加利福尼亚？这其实容易多了，我更擅长接受采访，所以没问题。对，View 就是这样一个小小的、类似基督教幽默的网站，我们在 2016 年创办了它，当时就是，比如我们花了 50 美元买域名，开始写笑话，把它们发出去，几年前它开始在保守派圈子里火起来，而这差不多就是我们如何走到了今天，赛斯

是我们的首席执行官，他几年前从最初的创始人手里买下了这个网站。对，他是最初的，他的名字叫亚当·福特，他已经还爱着这家公司了，呃，他拥有其中一部分。他现在做 Not the Bee，你你看过那个，那个，你知道，那个，对，那个没有关联。不，对对对，好吧，所以他们做的类似是真实新闻，但很疯狂。它就像一个后备方案，就像当讽刺变得不可能，因为这个世界太荒谬时，我们就在 Not the Bee 那边直接报道这些荒谬之事。所以，你知道，B 计划。对对，现实比虚构更了不起。对，确实，经常如此。那么 Bee 现在有多少人？对，我们现在大概有 12 名全职员工，发展得相当快，1 年前还只有我们 3 个人。我们有超过，我们有大约 25 人参与其中，只是不是所有人都是全职。

员工，所以你可能会感到惊讶，比如做讽刺内容，你不必有一整个写作团队坐满一个房间，整天不停地炮制文章。你每天能消化的讽刺内容也就那么多，你知道，比如我们不是人，你不需要像福克斯新闻、《Daily Wire》之类的那样每3分钟发布一篇文章。所以，嗯，我们有很多兼职人员。我们这里的一位作者弗兰克·弗莱明就是我们的作者之一，嗯，他有一份全职工作，只是在业余时间为我们写稿。好的，我们很想让他全职加入。是的，他住在澳大利亚。你住在奥斯汀。好的，是的，是的，而我是佛罗里达人。我的总……总部严格来说在南佛罗里达，我在佛罗里达东南部。是的，佛罗里达。我很想让这些人搬到佛罗里达，但很难让

人们离开加利福尼亚。确实如此，呃，是的，这比你想象的更有挑战性，尽管，呃，比如加利福尼亚州正竭尽所能鼓励人们离开。是的，是的。嗯，我想你们有一篇文章说加文·纽森是你们的整个年度销售员。是的，是的，是的，其实是真的，那其实是真的。[笑声] 所以你并不怀念那里。那么，我的意思是，加利福尼亚当然有很多方面是我确实喜欢的。嗯，我的大多数朋友仍在加利福尼亚，我的一些最好的朋友喜欢加利福尼亚。所以，是的，我确实，我确实喜欢加利福尼亚的大多数、很多方面，尤其是我的朋友，而且那里很美，也有很多很酷的东西，但把事情办成正变得越来越困难。加利福尼亚过去是机会之地，而现在它是

已经变成了，而且正越来越成为一个，嗯，[音乐] 某种过度监管、过度诉讼，呃，过度征税，人行道上有大便，还有鄙夷之地，就是这样，不是什么感谢这些税，而是像泰特感谢得州人用钢锯踢牙齿。不过让我换个方式问，所以这差不多就是这个故事，The Bee 起初，你知道，只是一个小博客，后来火了，算是迅速壮大成了某种东西，比如现在我们有了一批关注者，包括你，我们是怎么进入你的视野的，是有人分享我们的文章，然后你只是看到它们出现在你的信息流里吗？对，嗯，我不确定，我有一次在 Twitter 上看到了，文章里的想法相当、相当有趣，嗯，那些是我写的，好吧，嗯，对，我是说，我以前是

我以前是《洋葱新闻》的忠实粉丝得多，但后来《洋葱新闻》似乎变得非常政治正确，嗯，你知道，它算是有点朝 SML 的方向走了，多少有些左翼倾向。如你所知，它基本上不会真的拿左翼的任何东西开玩笑，但它以前比《洋葱新闻》公允得多。嗯，然后他们就，他们就是染上了工作思想病毒。对，所以到了那种地步，那个动物只是，它以前非常好笑，后来就没那么好笑了。你知道，我以前是《周六夜现场》的超级粉丝，不过你知道，我仍然觉得他们偶尔有一些不错的内容，但它就是变成了，我想你们写过一些关于这个的文章，嗯，你知道，《周六夜现场》有很多很多期，就算不是大多数期，也有点

像是关于我们为什么是坏人的道德说教，对吧，呃，而不是喜剧。对，所以，再说一次，真的不会拿左翼的任何东西开玩笑。比如，你知道，他们会痛打泰德·克鲁兹 17 000 次，你会想，好吧，我们明白了。而且往往因为他取笑了某个左翼人士，他会取笑某些左翼人士，然后他们就因此围攻他，这就像是一种防御性的东西。对，对，正是。所以它就是，嗯，很多喜剧都有大量禁飞区，嗯，然后，然后你意识到，就像，等一下，喜剧是不是，喜剧是在触及一个本质真相，或者试图这样做，还是里面有宣传成分，或者它是想把你推向某个特定方向，还是在触及、触及一个本质真相

而这个真相是幽默的，当它不再试图触及一个幽默的本质真相时，那么你知道，它现在就没那么好笑了。看，这恰恰就是我们从左翼那里受到的批评。左翼的批评是，我们的幽默所做的就是试图推动一种叙事而忽视真相，这实际上就是《纽约时报》所说的，说我们是伪装成讽刺的极右翼虚假信息。对，对，所以这几乎取决于你站在哪里，嫉妒。对，这几乎取决于你站在哪里。不过它怎么会取决于你站在哪里？对，我，我是说，我会说 The Bee 可能是，它温和偏右，嗯，它不是，它不是，但它当然不是极右翼。我的，我的印象不是那样

呃，我会说 The Bee 并不是，可能它不会是，实际上 The Bee 完全是中间派，嗯，但它肯定不是极右翼，嗯，如果 1 是完全左，10 是完全右，The Bee 似乎是在 6，6。

5，呃，偏向，好吧，右边，大概吧，Bernie Sanders、Elizabeth Warren、Babylon Bee、Hitler，或者在这个尺度上的某个位置。对，它不是，不过你知道，它是，呃，我是说，我觉得 The Bee 的右倾程度低于，比如说，《洋葱新闻》的左倾程度。举例来说，你知道，所以我觉得《洋葱新闻》的左倾程度会比 The Bee 的右倾程度更高。对，正义的，或者别的什么。对，不，我不知道，我们得把这个放到我们的 Wikipedia 页面上：正义的宣传。你知道，你谈到了 Wilk 思想病毒，我想知道你能不能替我解读一下你的这条推文，因为我不是程序员。你写的是 trace route woke underscore mind underscore virus，这是什么意思？好，所以 traceroute 是一条网络命令，用来，所以如果你想弄清楚通往某个特定服务器的路径

或域名，你会输入 traceroute，或者在 Windows 里输入 trace rt，它会向你显示通往某个具有 IP 地址或域名的特定源服务器的路径，而且它基本上会显示其经过的所有跳点，嗯，以及每个、每个跳点之间的延迟。所以我听懂了其中一些词。对，嗯，所以 traceroute 就是，对，我们就像，它从哪里来？对，这个病毒从哪里来？它的起源是什么？那么这起作用了吗，这条命令起作用了吗，还是没有？你找到你的评论了吗？读读评论，看看，再看看。好吧，它是一种盛行的思想病毒，而且，嗯，可以说是葡萄酒文明面临的最大威胁之一。另外，孩子生得不够多，对吧？对，我想大多数人只要看一下出生率统计数据，嗯，你就能判断未来

会是什么样，因为你能看到去年出生了多少孩子，嗯，然后你可以说，比如，出生率的趋势是在下降还是上升，而它基本上在几乎所有地方都一直呈下降趋势。所以如果你看去年的出生率，你知道，你就知道 20 年后会有多少成年人，因为出生了多少婴儿，趋势就像，你不必是什么统计大师之类的，嗯，你只要看看去年孩子，趋势走向远低于更替水平，呃，而且很多国家长期以来一直处于良好面纱更替水平。嗯，担忧是，如果你生孩子，那么他们会加剧气候变化，他们会毁掉地球，对吧？那就是左翼的担忧，是

我们让地球人口过多，而且我们会毁掉它。你是想让地球人口过多，好让我们可以去火星并接管、接管火星吗？这是一个刻意的策略吗？地球远未人口过剩，嗯，呃，远远没有人口过剩。嗯，所以，你知道，要最大限度减少大气和海洋的化学变化，所必需的是转向可持续能源的生产和消费。所以可持续能源未来的 3 个要素是可持续能源生产，主要通过太阳能、风能、一些地热能、水力和核能，尽管他们正在关闭所有核电站，所以，对，你基本可以把这一项从清单上划掉，而他们不应该这么做，他们应该继续，他们应该继续

运行，嗯，实际上，除非一座核电站位于一个，呃，重大国家灾难、不稳定或其他什么的地区。对，对，你不会想处于，你知道，遭受大规模，嗯，自然灾害的地方，因为显然那可能会成为问题。但如果你在，你知道，比如德国或法国之类的地方，你没有这些。所以核能非常安全，嗯，不过无论如何，从长期来看，嗯，能源生产的重头将由太阳能承担，其次是风能，而且，嗯，你其实不需要非常大的土地面积，就能产生足够的电力来为，比如说，美国供电。所以大约是，你知道，粗略地说，一块略大于 100 英里乘 100 英里的、一秒的土地，装上太阳能、太阳能板，就能为整个美国供电。所以就像一个小

犹他州或得克萨斯州的一角，比如，嗯，它就能为整个国家供电，所以不管怎样，所以，呃，这真的没那么难，太阳辐照功率是每平方公里1吉瓦，呃，如果对大多数中子可以做些计算，大多数核电站，是的，没错，它是、它是、它是每平方、每平方 k、每平方米1千瓦，而1平方公里里有100万平方，你知道，100万平方米，所以，嗯，这是个相当简单的，呃，数学计算，然后你会得到、你会得到大概20的效率，所以就算净发电功率为每平方公里200兆瓦。现在，如果你看大多数核电站，核电站周围通常有一片、一片相当空旷的区域，因为人们通常不想住在核电站旁边。

所以，嗯，大多数核电站周围无人居住的区域，如果、如果铺上太阳能电池板，产生的电力将超过核电站，然后你还、接下来需要的第2个要素是电池，用来储存太阳能和风能，因为，呃，太阳并非始终照耀，风也并非始终吹动，所以，太阳能和风能的、的间歇性需要电池储能来提供持续电力，呃，所以这是可持续能源的第2部分，也算是第2个、第2根支柱，而第3个是，呃，可持续交通，所以这意味着，呃，电动，呃，汽车、船只、飞机，然后具有讽刺意味的是，唯一真正无法实现电动化的东西是火箭，你知道，其中涉及的也是一样的，但、但是随着时间推移，你可以。

利用太阳能，通过从大气中提取 co2，将其与 h2o 结合，生成 ch4，也就是甲烷，以及 o2，也就是氧气，来制造燃料，而按质量计算，火箭的大部分是氧气，所以随着时间推移，基本上一切都可以由太阳能驱动，所以你正在研究其中一些问题，但特别是觉醒主义的问题，你提到那就像一种思想病毒，而且具有破坏性，呃，你为什么认为觉醒主义也对你的观点如此感兴趣，嗯，但是，你知道，就像，我的意思是，总的来说，我认为我们应该以一个积极的社会为目标，而且，呃，你知道，幽默应该是可以的，你知道，比如，我们应该、我们应该，就像、就像，工作主义基本上想让喜剧变得非法，这不酷，我们已经亲身经历过，我是说，Chappelle。

比如什么花坛，我是说，试图封杀 Chappelle，得了吧，伙计，那太疯狂了，嗯，所以，嗯，你知道，所以我们想要一个毫无幽默感、到处都充斥着谴责，呃，以及基本上的仇恨，呃，而且毫无宽恕的社会吗？对，是的。[音乐] 从根本上说，觉醒主义是分裂性的，嗯，是排他性的，嗯，而且充满仇恨。它、它基本上给了刻薄的人一个理由，一个、一个、一个、一个，它给了他们一面盾牌，让他们可以刻薄和残忍，以虚假的美德武装自己。你怎么看？我同意。对，对。我的意思是，我们显然已经从左派那里看到了这一点，你知道，就我们自己而言，你知道，左派现在几乎就是一种宗教，他们非常严肃，而且极其强烈地相信自己所相信的东西，以至于我们拿他们开玩笑，你知道，对他们来说，就像你是在取笑……

上帝或救赎，你知道，所以在我们看来，他们几乎成了新的宗教右翼。对，他同意我说的。[笑声] 不过你最近在 Twitter 上对，呃，Warren 参议员相当刻薄，你痛斥了她。伙计，拜托别找经理投诉我，Karen 参议员。是她先动手的。对，显然。是的，她确实基本上称我是个吃白食的。对，嗯，还有一个骗子，不纳税。嗯，而我今年确确实实缴纳了历史上任何个人所缴纳过的最高税额，有史以来最高，而她基本上根本不纳税，她的税款和她的薪水是由像我这样的纳税人支付的。你甚至能用、你能用涡轮律师吗？如果你可能死于讽刺，那甚至会奏效吗？她会、她会死的，火焰能杀死，会发生什么，如果你……

走进一家 H&R Block 报税，比如说，他们能处理你的情况吗？我的税其实没那么复杂。嗯，我没有任何离岸账户，也没有任何，呃，避税工具。呃，呃，我，我基本上持有 Tesla 和 SpaceX 的股票。嗯，而且，嗯，Tesla 是上市公司，所以信息是公开的；SpaceX 是，你知道，一家经过审计的 C 型公司，呃，你知道，它有外部订单，所以它，这些，它会有那个，呃，外部投资者，所以它也，一切都极其透明。嗯，没有，呃，不存在任何精心设计的那种避税方案之类的东西。所以 H&R Block 完全可以轻松替我报税，你知道，我不需要 HTML Block，我自己也能做。对，你知道，大概会花我几个小时。

来报完我的税，这非常基础。你卖掉 Tesla 的那些股票，是因为 Twitter 上的投票吗？呃，有一部分原因。你在 Twitter 投票之前就已经决定要那么做了吗？嗯，我有一些明年到期的 Tesla 期权，所以无论如何我都需要行使那些期权。而且，而且我当时想，好吧，我会继续行使那些期权。嗯，所以那只会是其中一部分，呃，无论如何都是。但除此之外，我又额外卖了一些股票，呃，试图达到 10 的水平。所以仅靠期权行权贷款并不会达到 10，因此我卖了股票，这应该会让我的 Tesla 股票出售总量大致达到 10。世界上最烦人的事情是不是别人像这样问你关于你的……

个人财务？从来没人问我在卖什么股票，或者为什么我去年赚了那么多钱。我的意思是，我是我们那条街上第 3 富有的人，这已经，这已经相当不错了，相当不错。我的意思是，我不确定这有多么富有成效或有趣，你知道，基本上我的全部净资产，呃，就只是 SpaceX 和 Tesla 的股票。这两家公司是，是我协助创办的，而且到现在已经经营了将近 20 年。嗯，它们做了很多有用的事情。嗯，SpaceX 的发射是送入轨道的古旧事物比世界其他地区的总和还多，而且拥有一个名为星链的全球互联网系统，并且，而且是主要的供应商，好吧，是美国唯一一家提供宇航员前往空间站运输服务的供应商。嗯，我们每天发表 6 到 8 篇讽刺文章，其中一些是……

有趣，我是说，相当不错，所以，所以 SpaceX，呃，是的，它运送我们以及非美国宇航员前往空间站，那以前是美。

国依赖于俄罗斯，呃，他们做得不错，但收费有点高得离谱。继续。所以有了 SpaceX，每名宇航员的成本大幅下降，而且，而且这些钱，你知道，流向了美国的就业岗位。所以这就是人们，你知道，认为 SpaceX 有价值的原因。呃，Tesla，呃，我的意思是，不过让人恼火的是，比如人们因为你取得了成功而责怪你，因为你拥有财富而责怪你。嗯，你知道，把亿万富翁视为邪恶的，而且，你知道，说你没有做足够多的事情来回馈社会。你知道，还有 Elizabeth Warren 那件事，说你没有缴纳自己公平的份额。我的意思是，那是，你知道，那肯定有点让人恼火。是的，我认为重要的是要理解，比如，比如这些财富是什么。呃，它并不是像……

某种，它并不是说我有某种，某种混合起来的巨额现金余额。呃，我的现金余额非常、非常低，至少在我卖出股票之前是这样，而本季度其实是我第一次以任何有实际意义的规模出售股票。我只是用我的，我的股票作抵押借款。所以我，我，我，如果 Tesla、SpaceX 破产，我也会立刻破产。所以，嗯，它还没有变现，这就是你要表达的吗？是的，它不是，不是，这就像人们，这就像，这就像，你知道，我创办了这两家公司，而创办它们极其困难，就像极其痛苦和困难，也很有回报，但也，但是极其痛苦、困难。嗯，而且，呃，而且，而且我没有，我没有出售这些公司的股票。嗯，你知道，我，我，你知道，我那种印象是……

你知道，你不应该把钱撤出来，或者你不应该，你不应该卖掉股票来降低风险，船长应该，你知道，与自己的船共沉。所以，所以就像，好吧，比如，你知道，我不想把钱撤出来，然后，然后如果公司倒闭了，那么我会，我会算是发财了，而投资者却遭受损失，那似乎不对。所以无论如何，所以我，那就是我没有卖出的原因，是，是因为如果 SpaceX 会告诉他们然后破产，我本来很容易就能实现多元化，并在财务上保护自己，但我没有这么做。而且 SpaceX 和 Tesla 曾多次非常接近破产，即使破产真的只剩几周之遥时，我也没有卖出股票。呃，然后这些公司变得有价值了，不是 Tesla 的价值基本上是……

因为价值不是，不是由我决定的，而是由投资者决定的，而他们认定 Tesla 在公开市场上价值 1 万亿美元。所以，而我拥有公司 20% 的股份。所以你现在不是在道歉，对吧？你不会看着镜头说，我非常抱歉。现在对着镜头。我只是在试着解释，比如，我觉得人们不一定理解。他们不理解。对，对，呃，这不是，你知道，某种囤积之类行为的结果。它只是因为，你知道，我是 20 公司，这家公司按照外部投资者的判断变得非常有价值，所以 1 万亿美元估值的 20% 就是 2000 亿美元。嗯，而且我，我已经，你知道，我在不同的时候说过，我认为股价太……

高了，但投资者完全无视了这一点。我就像，好吧，我真的说过它太高了。嗯，而他们只是不断把那个价格推得更高。所以我就像，告诉他们我们的价值太高了。所以无论如何，所以这就是，呃，但就像我说的，这并不是说，呃，我所谓的财富是，它不是什么，它不是什么深奥的谜团。它只是我在 SpaceX 和 Tesla 的持股比例是多少，再乘以估值，那就是我的身家。非常简单。我的税也非常简单，而且我没有，就像我说的，没有离岸账户，也没有什么巧妙逃税之类的东西。而且我不，我根本不从这些公司领取薪水，也不领取任何现金薪酬或奖金。所以，嗯，我还是认为不那么做在道德上是好的。嗯，所以曾经有，曾经有，就像，曾经有……

有1年，我想是2018年，那时、那时我、我没有缴任何税，呃，但、但那是因为我没有任何收入，嗯，而且、而且、而且我确实有一点收入，但实际上我想我在2017年多缴了税。

所以我缴了太多税，于是大概就是，我基本上在2018年把它抵消了，因为我在2017年缴了太多税。

意外地，除非你出售股票，否则就没有已实现收益，所以，呃，所以然后我就想，好吧，我是不是该卖，比如我，我，比如我该怎么办，难道要用某种方式把股票交给政府吗，我甚至不知道能不能这么做，对，嗯，所以当时的情况就像，好吧，比如除非我卖掉股票，否则就没有，就没有，就没有实际的缴税机制，所以然后我就想，好吧，我是不是该卖掉 10%，你知道，为了缴税，而且，而且我算是在 Twitter 上问了问，综合来看，他们说是，所以我，嗯，所以我，我卖出了足够多的股票，达到大约 10%，外加行使期权的那些股票，而且，呃，我非常，我努力做到极其按字面意思行事，嗯，所以你通常不需要揣摩言外之意，直接看字面就行了。[音乐] 所以就是这样，作为，作为最胖的

这里的人，我，我想知道，你什么时候要创办糖果公司，因为你在 Twitter 上说你正在创办一家糖果公司，而且你是这种文化里最接近威利·旺卡的人。可能是威利·旺卡。我没说会是。你说他，他说我要创办一家加拿大公司，它会成为沃伦·巴菲特。嗯，但你确实说过，我是超级超级认真的。我觉得如果你在 serious 前面加 2 个 super，那就说得通了，而且那就像是你很可能并不认真，你知道，只是，呃，给外面的讽刺作家们说一下。对。嗯，我当时觉得那就把他锁定了，就像肯定是叙利亚。他在向它解释笑话。对，对，对，就只是有个人说，让我告诉你笑话如何接受我们的话。嗯，你知道，我显然只是，我只是比如在取笑

沃伦·巴菲特，他就像，真的，他有这种，比如糖果公司之类的，所以，嗯，而且，嗯，那就是我的 1 个问题。现在我，我，我确实，实际上确实试验过，嗯，试图找到某种很有吸引力的糖果，它会是，比如我不知道，也许比其他糖果好得多。嗯，我们尝试了各种糖果选项，但我没找到任何一种，我想不出一种就是比其他糖果好太多的糖果。嗯，比如好一点，但没有好很多，所以当时就像，除非它真的是一款出色的产品。那你研究过这件事。对，对，我们尝试了一大堆不同的糖果，而且，呃，当时就像，没有任何东西明显就是好太多了。呃，所以，嗯，我不想只有，比如相当不错的糖果，如果有，比如一种很棒的

糖果。对，一些一流的，一些顶呱呱的糖果。嗯，但你知道，我们不需要另一种，比如相当不错的糖果。对，对，南方有很多。对，对，当你，比如突然冒出一个想法说我们应该做糖果时，那是什么样子？你比如就给某个人打电话吗，比如这是怎么，什么，当你有这个想法时，会突然发生哪些步骤，因为你做了这么多事情，我只是对那个过程是什么样子感到着迷。火箭。告诉他们你有个人可以打电话，吉姆，我想做糖果，把它办成。嗯，我想我确实让，你知道，Twitter 上的人把他们认为不错的糖果寄给我。它已经部署了。而我当时想，好吧，要是那些糖果中有些，比如你知道，有毒什么的怎么办，但随便了，比如你知道，糖果

来自互联网上的陌生人。对，可能会出问题，那就不是 100% 安全。嗯，但，呃，我确实尝了一大堆来自陌生人的糖果香味。你最喜欢什么糖果？嗯，有一种，比如，相当不错的花生，比如一些相当不错的花生糖，或者像那种里面有一大堆其他东西的花生酱，还有一些相当不错的巧克力，但，但没有任何一种让我，比如，惊艳，所以，嗯，而且，而且 SpaceX 和 Tesla 也有人给我送了一些糖果选项，但没有，没有任何一种是。我并不是在意创办公司，比如，如果有，比如有，如果有一种非常有吸引力的产品或服务，那才是重要的东西，而不是公司。你的公司只是一群人的集合，用来创造一种有吸引力的产品

或服务，而如果一家公司不提供出色的产品和服务，它就不应该存在。为了成为公司而成立公司毫无意义，那没有意义。公司应该只为了提供出色的产品和服务而存在。一家公司真的就只是一群人。所以我们是必须关门，还是继续营业？我认为外面有很多，有很多公司或许就应该直接解散，因为它们没有制造，呃，有吸引力的产品和服务。它们是剧透者，而且那些人最好，那些人去做别的事。我想关于那个话题，我是说，那个问题，我只是，比如真的，我感觉自己现在完全没资格采访你。我想我们都有这种感觉。我们为什么会在这里？比如你，你在做什么？好吧，我不是

那个要求做播客的人。你们确实，只是说清楚，我没有把这个播客强加给你们，是你们来到这里。我们只是，我们当时就像，我会顺路去一趟，你知道，得克萨斯。对，只是说清楚是谁在邀请她，我没有，我不是，比如你知道。我知道，我完全知道。拿枪抵着你的头让你参加这个播客。你现在本来可以上 CNN。对，你知道，约翰，一个真正的新闻机构。对，我只是说说而已。我不知道。不幸的是，我只是，你知道，还没有，嗯，你知道，我想，呃，你刚才说的是什么，成为 CNN 司机的要求，CNN 是，呃，你是，你是个变态吗？对，我还不够变态。对，我想是吧，我不知道，不太喜欢恋童癖。你知道“坏妈妈”的头条比我更清楚。[笑声] 我认为，你知道，很多

人都幻想过，如果我们有很多很多很多钱，我们会做什么，而你做了很多，比如我们很多人幻想过的事情，制造很酷的机器人，要去火星，我们要解决交通问题，但我们大多数人也觉得我们会成为蝙蝠侠。你有没有想过，比如真正成为那样会是什么样，或者你会选择蝙蝠侠还是钢铁侠，到处什么，因为犯罪正在右边。那是一只果蝠还是一只昆虫蝙蝠？我喜欢龙珠，大而吓人的，你知道，因为大多数蝙蝠要么吃水果，要么携带很多疾病。对，对，它们吃水果、虫子，比如水果蝙蝠侠摄入蝙蝠侠。我需要读那部衍生漫画。选择模仿这种，呃，生物很奇怪，你知道，你可以选一种不同的动物，比如会玩

用大脑玩《Pong》的猴子，伙计。[音乐] 猴子侠，猴子侠。对，没错，就是非常敏捷。它们是最聪明的动物，对吧？它们可以直接，呃，荡来荡去。猴子侠，那个蝙蝠侠更，更像猴子侠，真的。对，因为他就像，他到处荡，而且非常敏捷，嗯，爬上各种东西，而且，对，发动一番猛击对蝙蝠侠来说更有可能，比如如果他是蝙蝠侠，为什么他不会飞？那就要飞。对，没错，他只是，对，他滑翔得非常有效，不过。好吧，所以他真的，对，但那就像一个弗兰克，更像是在飞。[笑声] 我想没那么吓人。对。噢不，松鼠侠，我们，他要抓住我们了。别又是松鼠侠。对，不用制作他有的那个抓钩，那东西很酷。我们需要那些。你能做，也许能做出那个。对，对。

当然，你可以做一个抓钩兜帽，嗯，我、我是说，就像，当你……就像他们似乎跳过了那些部分，比如蝙蝠侠总是在楼顶，但比如你到了底层之后，要怎么回到楼顶？对，就像你得气喘吁吁地，你知道。对，对，你从来没看到……你怎么上到摩天大楼顶端，就算你有抓钩？我是说，你的抓钩得有多大，比如50层楼那么高？那根缆绳得有多大，你知道，这并不太可行。嗯，所以你只能，比如跑楼梯上去或者坐电梯。所以就像，在哥谭市，你怎么回到摩天大楼顶端？有一些高楼总是很难办。所以那就是钢铁侠了，他会像钢铁侠，对，钢铁

侠，因为你很擅长计算东西的成本之类的，所以，比如，成为蝙蝠侠、钢铁侠，或者干脆给你遇到的每个罪犯发工资，让他们别再犯罪，哪个更便宜？我觉得他们正试图不得不成为，嗯，反讽侠，反讽侠。嗯，我只用反讽的力量击败恶棍。就像，哦，反讽太多了，我受不了了，求你了，不，停止反讽，我再也承受不住了，我投降，我投降，反讽太多了。那会很难受。那会很棒。那绝对会很棒。那会很棒，对。别逼我再次使用反讽。也更便宜。你对元宇宙有什么看法？它把技术提升到了一个新的层次，让我们进入，比如，一个虚拟世界。比如，你认为这对人类而言是危险的还是充满希望的？

比如你对此有什么看法？也许我们现在就在元宇宙里，只是一层层全都是 mata 宇宙。嗯，我不知道自己是否一定相信这些比喻之类的东西，尽管人们经常跟我谈这个。Web 3。

当然，你可以把一台电视放在鼻子上，但我不确定这就能让你身处元宇宙，你知道。嗯，这很奇怪，比如，你知道，我小时候听到的是，别坐得离电视太近，那会毁掉你的视力，对吧？而现在我们弄了个电视，就真的是放在这里。我就想，呃，那对你有好处吗？我是说，你玩过这些游戏吗？你知道，那些 art Oculus 的东西？对，它们还行，你知道，但如果你试着走动，它会让你晕动。比如，你可以在某种电脑主机或别的什么上玩电子游戏，而且你可以置身于，比如，一款第一人称游戏中，然后，呃，快速移动而不会产生那种晕动症；但如果你试着戴着VR眼镜以一种节拍那样做，你就会晕动。这很奇怪。所以你必须，比如，传送

来传送去，这还行，所以那并不……感觉并不一定就是答案。嗯，植入大脑，这样你就不必戴眼镜了。就是这样，对。一个 Neuralink，长期、复杂的神经连接，可以，嗯，让你完全、完全进入某种虚拟现实。嗯，所以我想说的是，对，完全正确，能出什么问题呢？比如，那些负面影响，一些人从中引申出的那种反乌托邦影响。比如，我想是，我想 Jack Dorsey 对整个元宇宙概念批评得很厉害。你是否看到了人们……我不知道……生活在虚拟世界里、为了那个世界而离开物理世界所带来的问题？而且我看不出有人会整天把一块该死的电……你知道，屏幕绑在脸上，呃，还永远不想离开。似乎

不可能。我的意思是，你觉得会是那样吗？在我看来不像是那样。对，就像，一直把这东西绑在头上会让人不舒服。它确实需要更轻。对，就算是重量，我是说，就算它超级轻，还是会像……我不知道，它没那么……比如，你不会整天待在那里。所以，你知道，我认为我们离消失在元宇宙里还很远。呃，这听起来只是有点像流行术语，而且，你知道，我不觉得像是击中，比如，好吧，这是不是……你知道，我只是年纪太大了？我是不是像那些人一样，在95年的时候把互联网斥为某种时尚，或者某种永远不会有任何成就的东西？不过我没有，我当时就像是在说，比如，95年确实就是互联网

将会改变人类，而且会像，你知道，以前的信息基本上就是通过耳濡目染来传播，除非一个人给另一个人打电话，或者亲自把一封信带给另一个人，不然你要怎样把信息传出去？绝大多数信息实际上都是人与人之间传递的。后来他们有了像传真机之类的东西，但现在元宇宙的推销方式实在太令人提不起兴趣了，就像你会身处其中，就像Zoom会议，只不过你旁边的人有一个虚拟形象，你知道，而且你也许、也许可以设计自己的虚拟形象。就像我说的，我不、我不觉得自己像是，你知道，某个在95年就把互联网斥为不会有任何成就的老顽固，所以确实存在这种危险，就是

情况确实如此，但是，呃，我、我目前看不到什么有吸引力的元宇宙情境，而Web 3听起来营销意味多于现实。我不明白，你知道，也许以后我会明白。所以，但我现在还不明白。让我把那个放到一边。它肯定不是猴子玩Pong，我们就这么说吧。对，我只是想给白色克洛伊做广告。对，正好引用“真正的男人喝白衣服”。我们能不能事后让我们的人打电话给白色俱乐部谈赞助？如果你想让我们把那段保留下来。对，那样他们就不会付钱给我们了。是不是，你知道，这是巴比伦蜜蜂V播客上喝的第一杯白色电话，第一杯白爪，所以这很棒。你到了人生中的某个节点，你、你知道，你已经赚了很多钱，可以做任何事情，是什么驱使你参与这场

活动？对，我本可以就在热带岛屿上系上领带。呃，我一直都错了，我为什么每周工作90小时？这太疯狂了。因为我总是会想到那种想法，比如我成功了。人们总想要能够说，我成功了，我到了。对，而比如，你知道，你抵达人生中的那些小岛，而你实际上必须让自己摆脱那种心态。你用什么方法让自己摆脱那种心态并继续前进？我投入所有这些精力打造SpaceX和Tesla，并不是因为我认为它们是轻松赚钱的方式。我的意思是，任何创办汽车公司、认为这是轻松赚钱方式的人都是傻瓜。在历史上，只有2家汽车公司没有破产

美国的，那就是Ford和Tesla，而Tesla曾多次距离破产仅咫尺之遥，SpaceX也是如此。所以，对，而且谁会创办火箭公司还认为它会成功？嗯，我想过，我的意思是，这2家公司，我、我认为成功的可能性都低于10，我认为我极有可能会损失从PayPal赚到的钱。你知道，我17岁时独自来到北美。嗯，我当时大概、只有几千加元的旅行支票，那还是旅行支票存在的年代，你知道。嗯，我在蒙特利尔降落。嗯，我在加拿大有一些家人，呃，我妈妈的叔叔住在蒙特利尔，但我们，我们不知道他的电话号码，所以我在蒙特利尔降落

然后我妈妈说，我刚收到我叔叔的回信，他在明尼苏达州什么地方。所以我就想，好吧，我现在不知道该怎么办。于是我就住在青年旅舍，还买了一辆公交车，乘它横穿加拿大。我做过各种零工之类的工作，在、在我妈妈表亲位于萨斯喀彻温省的小麦农场工作了6周。事实上，我就是在那里过了18岁生日。我在木材商场工作，用链锯锯原木，还做过各种在职工作，然后在加拿大上了2年大学。顺便说一句，我自己付钱读完了大学。所以，但在加拿大会容易一些，因为大学获得的补贴更多，而且我通过我妈妈取得了加拿大公民身份。所以，而且我获得了一些奖学金和贷款之类的，然后我申请了大学

宾夕法尼亚大学，呃，我原以为自己上不起，因为学费真的很高，但他们给了我奖学金和贷款之类的，所以我得以去那里上学。我毕业时大约背着10万美元的学生债务，而且，嗯，我本来要去斯坦福读研究生，后来决定先搁置学业，尝试创办一家互联网公司。嗯，实际上，我试过去网景找工作，但他们没有，我会寄出简历，然后收到回复，所以我当时就想，好吧，我想我应该，我没法在那儿找到工作，当时只有几家互联网公司，而我能在其中任何一家找到工作，所以我就想，我大概想做点互联网相关的事，得创办自己的公司。但我最后编写了互联网上最早的地图和路线指引，我亲自编写了

地图、路线指引、黄页、白页，用的是一台小得可怜的电脑，几乎什么都没有，所以你必须，就是代码必须极其紧凑。我甚至还拥有一些关于地图和路线指引、黄页和白页之类的专利，都是很久以前的了。那些专利现在已经失效，但那家公司最后被compact以大约3亿美元收购。我拥有公司7%的股份，所以从中得到了大约2000万美元，把其中大部分投进了，呃，x。

com，它与Confinity合并，创建了PayPal，随后我从中得到了大约1.8亿美元，我把所有钱都投入了SpaceX、Tesla和SolarCity。我基本上就是一直，你知道，把所有筹码都留在桌上，就像是，我们再玩一轮吧。但大多数人会把旅行从桌上拿走，或者至少拿走一部分筹码，而且，呃，后来SpaceX和Tesla变得很有价值，这就是我如今的处境。但创办SpaceX和Tesla的原因是，你知道，就Tesla而言，如果你问，比如，Tesla在历史上带来的益处是什么，你会如何评价，我会说，要看Tesla将可持续能源的发展加快了多少。我很早就对电动汽车感兴趣，嗯，可能从高中起，至少也是大学早期。我最初对

电动汽车的兴趣，与其说是出于环境方面的担忧，不如说是担心石油最终会耗尽，和/或变得极其稀缺且昂贵，然后文明就会崩溃，因为我们可以开汽车，或者，你知道，运行发电厂之类的。所以，所以我们需要某种可持续的能源生产和消费形式，否则文明就会崩溃。这就是我最初对电动汽车和太阳能感兴趣的原因，而且，我确实认为，嗯，存在某种对气候造成负面影响的风险。呃，你知道，当你提高海洋和大气中的二氧化碳浓度时，就会增加某些事情，呃，出问题的风险。嗯，我、我并不属于那种对全球变暖极度危言耸听的阵营。

我，比如，你知道，比如，我认为，我不认为我们会因为，比如，海洋大气中当前百万分之几的二氧化碳而，嗯，完蛋。我觉得，比如，这实际上不是、不是一个很糟糕的水平。然而，开采和燃烧碳氢化合物这个方向存在如此巨大的惯性，你知道，这个世界仍然极其、压倒性地依赖开采和燃烧碳氢化合物。嗯，所以，你知道，如果这种情况继续下去，你开始真正大幅推高海洋和大气中的二氧化碳，那么加速气候变化的风险就会增加，基本上就是使海洋升温，而且，嗯，使海平面上升。所以，所以我认为这就像是，我只是认为，这很可能不是一个明智的冒险，因为无论如何，我们都必须转向

长期可持续能源，因为我们最终会耗尽用来少量或燃烧的石油和煤炭，呃，那么为什么还要进行这个实验，看看，你知道，看看海洋大气中的高二氧化碳浓度是否会导致坏事发生呢？这就像一个毫无意义的实验。比如，我们知道自己必须实现某种，呃，可持续能源经济，这完全合乎逻辑。比如，所以我认为，我们应该努力更早实现它，以免冒气候变化的风险。气候变化不会，不会给文明带来灾难，但会造成非常严重的扰乱。人类喜欢就住在海边，所以这就像，我们几乎就像一个，像一个温度计，就像，就像我们正住在海滩上。好吧，所以，呃，这就像，所以即使……出现微小变化

海平面出现微小变化，海平面的变化也会让很多房屋被水淹没，反对微小、微小的变化，不足以含糊。我们只是，我们只是从根本上把文明建设得对温度变化高度敏感。不过，很多对这件事危言耸听的政客却会在水边买房，不是吗？这是真的。是的，我的意思是，我并不太赞同把石油和天然气行业妖魔化，因为我认为，我认为现实情况是，比如，如果，呃，如果我们现在没有石油和天然气，文明就会崩溃，所有人都会挨饿。所以我们现在显然需要石油和天然气，直接停下来会很荒谬，比如，那并不，不可行。嗯，但，但是我确实认为，我们应该努力加快迈向可持续能源未来的进展，呃，而不是放慢

把它放慢。你知道，我认为，努力更快而不是更慢地迈向可持续能源经济，只是一件明智的事。嗯，因为这会降低这场气候实验的风险，而且就像我说的，既然我们知道无论如何都必须实现可持续能源经济，为什么还要进行这场实验？这，这就是不明智。总之，所以，所以我认为，Tesla带来的根本益处，你知道，应该用Tesla把向可持续能源经济转型的时间提前了多少年来衡量。嗯，10年，20年，你知道，这就是这家公司带来的根本益处。但回到伊森的问题，他问的是，比如为什么不，比如，那是，那就是你不断做下去的原因吗？因为这些事情能带来改变，它们能

带来改变，最终有益于人类的繁荣，有益于人类的长久存续。这就是为什么你没有待在某处的海滩上，喝着我的领带或白爪吗？是的，实际上我不怎么喝白色限定词。这不是为了，比如，努力让自己致富。嗯，我过的并不是一种炫耀性消费的生活。我工作，你知道，工作很长时间，但是，我认为，我认为Tesla正在做的事情对未来很重要，而这就是，这就是我不断做下去的原因。而且我认为，你知道，这是，这是我认为，呃，Tesla提高了人类拥有美好未来的概率。然后对于SpaceX，嗯，我认为，我认为，呃，重要的是我们采取行动，比如让我们成为一个承载太空的文明和一个多行星物种。这是一件令人兴奋的

鼓舞人心的未来，你知道，你需要拥有一些东西，让你早晨醒来时会觉得，你会对未来感到兴奋。如果一切都只是为了解决痛苦不堪的问题，那为什么还要活着，为什么还要活着，嗯，所以必须有一些鼓舞人心的东西，那种，你知道，能触动你内心的东西，我认为太空就是其中之一。所以，你知道，看看阿波罗计划，还有，你知道，把人送上月球，这难道不是对全人类而言的一件大好事吗，大好事。而且如果你问人们，比如，人类做过的最伟大的事情中有哪些，我认为那会是其中之一，呃，你知道，世界各地的人都会同意这一点，你知道，如果你相信它真的发生过的话。是的，我确实会被问到这个问题，这是，嗯

是的，我们，我们去过月球，不只是1次，而是，而是好几次，而且，嗯，我认为如果那不是真的，俄国人会揭穿我们的，你知道，呃，至少可以这么说，在这些之中，这就像，是的，确实，我们去了，我们去了月球。当时俄国人不喜欢我们。是的，但所以，你知道，并不是它的超级粉丝。他们不会像，他们当时正透过望远镜看着我们，像是，这是真的吗，或者为什么，你知道，呃，如果那不是真的，他们肯定会有泡泡糖的。这对美国和西方文明而言是一个巨大的，你知道，胜利，你知道，意识形态上的胜利。所以，但无论如何，重点是，我们，我们希望拥有一个激动人心、鼓舞人心的未来，而且，而且是一个我们成为太空之春文明和多行星物种的未来

我认为，这比我们永远被限制在地球上、再也不回到月球，而且，而且月球就是我们的最高水位线、那就是我们做过的全部，要激动人心和鼓舞人心得多。那令人沮丧。而且，而且从长远来看，如果我们是一个多行星物种，那就像是生命本身的生命保险，不只是人类的，也是，也是地球上所有生物的，嗯，因为我们会带着它们一起走，而，而且它们不会造宇宙飞船。所以，你知道，我们实际上是生命的管理者，嗯，而且，你知道，我们可以让，我们可以让火星像一个，你知道，另一个上面有生命的行星，嗯，你知道，这，你知道，呃，这可能是一个危险的类比，但它有点像诺亚方舟，不过，你知道，我们带去的每一种都不止2个

生物，因为坦白说，这有点乱伦，嗯，是啊，我是说，这怎么运作，你知道，第二代，而且他讨厌恐龙吗，比如这是怎么……[笑声] 为什么，为什么会是在恐龙之后，就像是支持乱伦、大战恐龙，我不明白，而且那必须是非常大的一票。所以，不过你知道，这也许是个隐喻，我不知道，嗯，是啊，但总之，就是说，存在一些风险，尤其是在很长一段时间里，地球会发生如此多的灾难，而如果我们只在一个星球上，那将是生命本身的终结。当然，太阳，太阳正在缓慢膨胀，所以，呃，你知道，地球大约有45亿年历史，有些人可能不同意这一点，但看起来是这样

的，嗯，呃，而且，嗯，大约5亿年后，太阳会膨胀得很大，使地球可能不再宜居；10亿年后，肯定不再宜居。所以基本上，如果智能生命在地球上进化所花的时间长了10%，那它就根本不会进化出来，因为它会被毁灭，因为海洋会沸腾，而它们会……我们将无法生存。所以我是说，无论如何，宇宙最终都会以热寂结束，对吧，最终如此，所以在某种程度上，如果看得足够远，一切都是徒劳的。嗯，是啊，我是说，我认为，如果热寂是宇宙的结局，那真的就完全关乎旅程本身，就像，你知道，他们说过，就像，你知道，旅程是，是，是，呃，一半的乐趣在于旅程之类的话。好吧，如果他的死亡是终点

，那么宇宙的全部乐趣都在旅程中，你知道。我们就不能进化出耐热性，变成像熔岩生物那样吗？不是，不是那样，它是冷的，随着熵增，它最终会冷却，而我不是科学家。熵，终极的……他还以为魔鬼很坏，试试熵吧。是啊，好吧，试试看能不能逃过那个。但对，我是说，是的，我是说，从技术上讲，成为多行星物种会延长文明以及我们所知生命的可能寿命。嗯，所以我是说，我们人类不会永远活着，所以，但仅仅因为我们不会永远活着，并不意味着文明不能比我们活得长得多。一个文明的寿命比任何单个人类都长得多。所以这并不是要逃往火星，这只是，我是说，我，我很可能早在

莫兹成为一个自给自足的文明之前就会死去。这只是我认为我们应该、我们应该做的事情，以便让文明拥有长得多的可能寿命，而且这很有趣、很令人兴奋，而火星对我们来说就像是，就像一个必不可少的下一步。就像有这些，你知道，呃，过滤器，它们被称为大过滤器，因为你必须问，比如外星人在哪里，你知道，这就像费米悖论，外星人在哪里？如果宇宙有13.

80亿年历史，难道它们现在不应该无处不在了吗？而我不知道有任何外星人存在的证据。人们也问我这个，呃，我们是外星人。我就说，伙计，如果有人会知道外星人的证据，那会是我，而我，我什么也没见过。所以我想，可能是某个叫萨根的人说过，你知道，大概是，我们要么在银河系中是孤独的，要么存在大量外星人，而每个答案可以说都同样可怕。嗯，就像，就像，嘿，我们发现了，外星人正在赶来。呃，太糟糕了，是入侵舰队。嗯，你知道，嗯，所以我，我不知道，就像它们在哪里，外星人在哪里，也许在无尽的银河系里根本没有任何外星人。嗯，也许我们在这里拥有的是一种非常、非常罕见的情形。嗯，你知道，一种信念，一次短暂闪烁的

意识，在死亡中，就像浩瀚黑暗里的一根小蜡烛，而我们不应该让那根小蜡烛熄灭。所以我爸爸是保龄球领域的一名火箭科学家，他有一个问题。工程师。好吧，随便吧，人们说火箭科学家时，真正的意思是火箭工程师。好吧，是的，所以他是一名火箭工程师，他问，星舰在多少马赫时承受最大Q值，也就是最大动压？那是多少压力？这对你来说讲得通吗？呃，是的，所以，呃，是的，最大Q值，最大动压，是当你处于，嗯，一种速度与大气密度的组合状态，使得，呃，火箭受到的风力达到最高。所以随着你爬得越来越高，大气密度会呈指数下降。嗯，于是你会到达这样一个点，这种组合

，即速度和空气密度的组合，就是最大动压、最大Q值。嗯，而，呃，这主要是推重比的函数。所以如果你有一枚低推重比火箭，你通常会有较低的最大Q值。嗯，而如果你有一枚高推重比火箭，假如你不降低推力，它会有较高的最大Q值。所以，呃，这也有点取决于你飞的是什么轨迹。你是在飞低空越过轨迹，呃，单次点火入轨，还是，还是8、8，呃，比如近地点较低的地球同步转移轨道？那么你会有更高、更高的最大Q值，因为你会花，你会花更多时间沿着，呃，某种水平方向而不是垂直方向飞行。嗯，进入轨道主要关乎你……进入它所关乎的是你的，你的速度

与另一个表面平行。所以在大约标记23到标记25时，呃，你，你知道，也就是大约音速的23倍左右时，你会达到，呃，轨道，轨道速度，大约每小时17 000英里。所以，嗯，而，而这就是上去并留在上面的含义。你只需要高度，以便离开大气层的高密度部分，这样你就不会减速。嗯，那些说法没有一句是对的，我不同意。是啊，我不同意，我同意。我会给出一个完全不同的答案。我没时间深入讲。[笑声] 是啊，所以我是说，通常，嗯，火箭会在1.

4 和 1。

8马赫到，嗯，而，而那个Q值可能会是每平方英尺400到800磅。嗯，呃，现在，星舰按设计会有更高、更高的推重比，因为对于完全可重复使用的火箭而言，推进剂成本开始变得显著，而如果你有一枚可扩展火箭或部分可重复使用的火箭，推进剂成本与火箭成本相比微不足道。所以对于完全可重复使用的火箭，你实际上会希望有更高的推重比，以尽量降低每吨入轨成本，而对于消耗型火箭则不会如此。所以星舰可能至少会有1.

3的推重比，甚至可能更接近1.5，而这将会，呃，如果不降低推力，而理想情况下我们不会扔下去，呃，就会产生相当高的Q值，嗯，可能高达，呃，每平方英尺1 000，呃，甚至1200磅。嗯，所以那是，呃，而且可能，可能，你知道，呃，在工作速度下，我是说，我猜，呃，1.4马赫到1.

5马赫之类的。好吧，我爸爸非常喜欢这个答案，我敢肯定。不过，作为一名男性女权主义者，火箭有一点就是其阳具象征。要怎样才能弄些更像阴道形状的火箭，你知道，为了，好吧，平等。嗯，我们能实现吗？空气动力学，动力学会给你一个严肃的答案。无论是生物结构还是机械结构，都具有相似的性质。好，回答得好。关于火箭科学，我就这些。呃，机器人，对，Tesla机器人。所以你们正在制造机器人。你这辈子看过科幻电影吗？从来没有。好吧，我就觉得也许没有，你知道，比如因为事情出来了，最坏能发生什么？是啊，嗯，机器人并不是，并不是可怕的部分。可怕的部分是，呃，AGI，也就是通用人工智能

，远远超过人类智能的数字超级智能。嗯，而且，嗯，你知道，如果，如果，如果有一种数字超级智能，就是比最聪明的人类聪明得多，嗯，我们可能会失去对它的控制，然后它，它可能，它可能就会，它可能会做出某些坏事。可能如此。嗯，这些事情只是概率，并非必然。嗯，所以不是机……就像，不是机器人，应该担心的是数字超级智能。我认为这绝对是我们需要担忧的生存风险问题之一。我认为我们应该设立一个监管机构，监督，呃，先进AI。嗯，因为，你知道，一般来说，就像，我确实认为政府有一些重要作用，而，而其中一个作用就是监管

对行业进行监管，以确保任何任何公司都不会为了走捷径而危及公众，所以你知道，FAA确实总体上一直非常非常出色地确保飞机安全。你知道，乘坐美国航空公司的航班，或任何任何由FAA监管的航空公司的航班，实际上都比住在自己家里更安全，只是为了让大家了解一下，嗯，你更有可能死亡；如果你一辈子都住在家里，你的预期寿命会比一辈子住在飞机上更短，因为在家里你可能会被配偶谋杀，被一个老挝咬伤，但如果你住在阿富汗的一架飞机里，那就不一定了，也许是这样。嗯，如果它不，如果如果它不受像FAA这样的，嗯，一个一个，呃，监管机构监管，那么那么

那么它就未必会达到同样的安全标准。要是你的配偶也在飞机上呢？嗯，我想是这样，飞机有，你知道，它们有阻止这类事情的手段，比如你不能，很难把枪带上飞机。是的，嗯，而且，呃，现在连刀甚至一瓶润肤露都很难带上去，你知道，所以你的配偶不可能带上任何这些东西。让我直接用它揍你，或者用运动刺你，你知道，塑料辐条，你知道，用叉勺很难杀死一个人，嗯，所以是的。然后飞机上还有，比如空乘人员都接受过急救训练，他们有，比如，呃，他们会做心肺复苏，有除颤器，呃，如果如果有人出现健康问题，他们会立即让飞机降落，救护车会到机场接你，所以，呃，而且

你不会，比如，你知道，在浴缸里溺水，或者被烤面包机电死，或者，你知道，房子被烧毁，或者因为烤面包机。顺便说一下，烤面包机会导致很多房屋被烧毁。是的，房屋被烧毁的主要原因之一就是烤面包机和烘干机。还有，在任何时候，飞机上都很有可能有一名医生，对吧？这种事经常发生，比如医生在飞机上救治某个人。在你家里，你知道，是的。所以飞机非常安全。而且，而且我的意思是，总体而言，FDA在监管，呃，食品和药品方面做得不错。你知道，这可能有一点保守主义偏向，你知道，在某些时候，FDA存在一种不对称，嗯，某种可以帮助很多

人的东西没有获批，因为它可能会伤害少数人，所以这里存在某种，比如，一点一点不对称。呃，比如说，监管机构总体上可能会有一点不对称，呃，当事情出错时，他们会受到很多惩罚，但当事情进展顺利时，他们获得的奖励却不够，嗯，所以这只是监管人员在惩罚和奖励方面面临的一个普遍挑战，他们可能会有点保守。所以，但我认为应该有一个监管机构来监管，嗯，你知道，任何会对公众构成危险的东西。嗯，所以我认为AGI可能与公众利益有关，因此应该应该受到一定监管。嗯，通常监管机构都非常被动，嗯，所以，比如以安全带为例

安全带的缺失造成了，我不知道，全世界1000万人死亡，我是说，数量巨大，而汽车行业在很长一段时间里都反对安全带，呃，最终在许多人死亡之后，交通部的防卫部门NITSA，也就是监管汽车的监管机构，说所有汽车都必须配备安全带，你不能就是没有安全带，但据我所知，过了15年左右，也许更久，呃，也许20年，安全带才被强制要求。所以，然后你知道，婴儿座椅也是，很多很多孩子和婴儿死了，因为他们就只是坐在这个，你知道，什么都没有的座位上。我是说，我，我小时候差不多就是坐在什么都没有的座位上长大的。对，我们会坐在卡车车斗里。对，说真的，驾驶那辆造得更好的皮卡

卡车，幸存者偏差之类的。我没事，但，对，我没事，但如果发生事故，那就彻底完了，你知道。对。嗯，所以，所以在监管之类的事情上，你确实认为政府有一些好处，但总体而言，你不认为政府能比你更有效地花你的钱。对，我是说，我会说，总体上我觉得自己相当温和。我不算是那种极端自由意志主义者。嗯，我认为政府承担某些角色是合理的，比如我觉得我们不一定想要一支私人军队，呃，或者私人警察部队，或者私人的，对，我认为有一些，你知道，某些事情可能确实是政府应该承担的角色，但凡是政府做的事情都会效率低下。

嗯，因为政府是一种垄断。那些不喜欢企业的人，不应该不知为何认为政府要好得多，因为政府归根结底就是一家公司，它是终极公司，垄断着暴力。所以，嗯，就像我认为，你知道，政府恰当的角色是，像是以监管身份行事，嗯，但我们应该力求让政府在经济中成为一个有限的参与者。嗯，所以，你知道，你可以说，比如经济产出的多少比例应该由政府支配，你知道，嗯，也许，也许是三分之一之类的，你知道，一旦政府占比开始超过50%，我觉得那就有问题了。所以，嗯，你可以看看东德和西德、朝鲜和

韩国，而且，你知道，当时基本上是随意画了一条线来分割这些国家，东德差不多是政府占比100%，西德是，我不知道，可能政府占比至少40%，他们算是，你知道，相对社会主义，然而西德的人均 GDP，我想，是东德的5倍。所以这恰恰说明了，如果政府占比接近一半，而不是100%，差异会有多大。呃，私营部门的效率可能是政府的10倍。嗯，而且这，就像，这算是，这通常也同样成立：如果你有一家垄断性的私人公司，那么迫使它服务于

客户的驱动力就很弱，但至少私人公司可以破产，而政府无法破产，除非人民破产，也就是基本上，除非它把能从民众那里榨取的钱都榨干了。所以，嗯，他们正在尽最大努力。所以，对，这只是，你知道，所以你只要，只要知道政府会像任何大型垄断企业一样低效，而且它就是终极的大型垄断企业，我们就应该尽量减少政府所做的事情，嗯，只让它做必不可少的事情，嗯，不要超出这个范围。对，我是说，我想，你知道，保守派对此的担忧是，你开始给他们，你知道，你给他们一个立足点，然后他们就会继续扩张，比如你赋予他们对

像 AGI 之类的东西，然后他们就会开始，你知道，越来越越权，因为这就是我们过去看到的情况。你，你知道，你让他们一英寸，他们就拿走一英里。对，但我，我是说，现实中有人想撤销 FAA 或 FDA 吗？可能有某个人。好吧。[音乐] 好像角落里坐着一个无政府主义者。我是说，通常如果你去商店，比如你，你买了某种随便什么牛排，或者商店里的某种东西，然后问，比如，它是不是有毒，你知道，或者，或者，你知道，就像我们理所当然地认为，我们在商店买的食物，呃，不会害死我们，你知道。实际上，你知道，呃，因为某家公司削减了成本，并决定，你知道，有大肠杆菌和沙门氏菌这件事就是，你知道，谁在乎的那种

事情。嗯，所以，所以我认为，你知道，就像，就像我们采取这样一种立场：在商店买的食物，嗯，是没有毒的，嗯，而且，呃，我们购买的药物，比如，极不可能，比如，药物会是一致的，而且会做到它们声称会做到的事情，除了那种维生素补充剂行业之外，它基本上不受监管，所以他们可以说一些不真实的话，并因它感到如此平静。嗯，不管怎样，所以就像，我认为，你知道，你真正想要的是，比如你可以这样想，你想在场上有某种裁判。所以，比如，你知道，对于，嗯，你知道，就像，如果你在看，比如一场橄榄球比赛，或者篮球之类的比赛，会有裁判。好，那么没有裁判，比赛会更好还是更糟？

那会更糟，你知道。嗯，所以我认为，裁判在比赛中的角色很重要，嗯，因此我认为政府作为裁判的角色也很重要。嗯，你只是不让政府作为球员出现在场上。如果裁判突然开始打球，那会很奇怪，你知道，比赛可能不会那么好。好吧，还有其他事情让我觉得你以前从没看过科幻电影。你有一个 Neuralink，所以你可以，比如，把东西放进人们的大脑之类的，那是什么样的？那是什么样的？它酷吗？你喜欢它吗？嗯，试试看，你可能会喜欢。好吧，对，对于 Neuralink，呃，Neuralink 在一定程度上，嗯，实际上，我创建 Neuralink 的那种原因是，嗯，从长

期来看，作为数字超级智能的一种风险缓解措施，也就是说，如果我们能够有效地与数字智能实现共生，那么我们这种集体人类，嗯，就能更好地把事情引导到我们希望的方向，或者即使面对良性的 AI，至少也能跟着一起走。所以，因为即使是良性的超级智能，如果它比我们聪明得多，以至于，你知道，它真的甚至无法有效沟通，因为它速度太快了，嗯，然后，比如，跟我们说话就像转向一棵树，你知道，因为如果你看，如果你用定格方式观察一棵树，一棵树确实在与环境交流，只是非常缓慢。它看起来，现在它正在寻找水，这棵树正在期待，那片牧场正在寻找

阳光，而且，而且这棵树会动，只是非常缓慢。嗯，所以，嗯，而且我们目前已经部分是一个赛博格了，呃，我们事实上，呃，算是一条人行道，因为我们的手机、电脑和应用程序如今是我们自身的数字延伸。比如，如果有人把手机落下了，那就像肢体缺失综合征，你知道，比如，呃，手机几乎就像是你的一部分。嗯，而且，呃，但这种共生的问题在于，数据速率极其缓慢。所以，比如，你用两根拇指能多快地与手机交流，你知道，每秒10比特，数据速率非常低。而如果，如果计算机能够，而且它们确实能够，以，你知道，每秒10亿比特或更高的速度交流，而我们却在用

以每秒 10 比特的速度向它们传输，那么这就是一条极其缓慢的通信链路，它会阻碍共生，如果没有某种第三级数字层的话，比如说，我们基本上有一个类似原始层的东西，基本上就是边缘系统，它是我们的本能以及我们的许多情绪，有点像爬虫脑的那种情况；然后你有大脑皮层，也就是大脑中负责思考、规划之类事情的部分，呃，而且，嗯，所以它就像第 2 层；然后我们的手机和计算机是我们的第三级层，但存在一种边界方面的限制，我会说，我们的通信速度非常慢，所以但是通过 Neuralink，你可以将通信带宽提高许多个数量级，也许提高 1000 倍或更多。

所以你说的是从大脑输出到其他设备，是的，主要是，是的，不是输入大脑——呃，这会是双向的。我们的输入受到的限制远小于输出，因为有视觉。所以，你知道，粗略估计是，我们因为视觉而获得的输入可能大约是 100 万倍——大致如此，网上有些人，我不打算对此争论，不过输入对输入而言要比输出高许多个数量级，因为有视觉。嗯，你知道，一张图、一张图片胜过 1000 个词，而一段视频胜过，我不知道，100000 个词，就像，只是，你知道，存在，嗯，这就是为什么一个迷因能比几个词传达多得多的信息。现在这显然非常深奥，而且，就像，我不确定这是否会引起共鸣，你知道。

对很多人来说，就像，哦，我们需要把大脑皮层与第三级数字层之间的带宽提高许多个数量级，以免失去与数字智能的共生关系。所以这相当深奥，但，嗯，不过这就是 Neuralink 对长期生存风险的缓解措施，我们可能实现，也可能无法实现。我不是说我们一定会实现这一点，但它至少是解决那个问题的一次尝试。然后，嗯，在这个过程中，Neuralink，呃，可以解决许多，呃，大脑问题，比如如果你有，呃，而且你知道，如果你有类似脊柱断裂之类的情况。所以，我们正在考虑解决的首批应用之一，是给一位患有四肢瘫痪、四肢麻痹的人植入 Neuralink。嗯，所以，比如他们没有，他们无法移动手臂和腿。

或者甚至可能真的，呃，无法移动面部的大部分部位，比如，也许只能眨眼或诸如此类，你知道，就像史蒂芬·霍金；或者他们不必是脊柱断裂，但有各种各样的机械性和其他，比如机械性损伤或疾病，会切断你的大脑与身体之间的连接。嗯，而 Neuralink，嗯，可以解决这个问题，它当然可以，我们相信 Neuralink 能够让一位，呃，四肢麻痹的人，嗯，以比拥有双手、双手正常工作的人更快的速度操作手机，呃，或者计算机。而且，呃，我们已经展示了这一点，例如猴子能够玩电子游戏。所以它可以玩很多游戏，不只是《Pong》，《Pong》目前是它最喜欢的游戏。我一开始甚至都不知道猴子能玩《Pong》，但，是的。

是啊，猴子可以用手玩《Pong》，呃，很好，嗯，是啊，它们很厉害，猴子的反应很快，呃，所以，嗯，这就是它开始的方式，你，猴子，我们试着，然后我们观察猴子的大脑正在发送的信号，接着我们读取那些信号，然后，然后我们，呃，试着，我们把信号直接传输到游戏里，而且，呃，你知道，所以，然后，然后我们拿走操纵杆，猴子基本上就只是在用心灵感应玩。哇，这太狂野了。是啊，所以，嗯，而且最近我们得到了，呃，我们认为是来自任何，呃，神经、神经设备的每秒比特数世界纪录，比如我们正开始接近每秒10比特，这其实并不，嗯，不算很大，但它比其他任何人以实用方式实现的都要多，10，10，接近10个有效的

每秒比特，就是我们目前所处的水平，而我们会，我们会随着时间的推移大幅提高这个数字。所以，嗯，总之，我们，我们还想确保这个设备极其安全，嗯，而且经过极其充分的测试，嗯，我们的标准远远超出监管层面所要求的标准，而且，呃，但我们希望明年能首次把 Neuralink 植入人体，而且，嗯，想让一个，嗯，你知道，几乎完全没有、没有活动能力的人能够，嗯，操作手机，速度和，或者我们认为随着时间推移会比双手功能正常的人更快。所以我认为那会是一件相当重大的事，并帮助很多人，而且，而且还有许多这样的应用，嗯，而且我越来越有信心，嗯，我们可以植入第2个 Neuralink 设备，所以

一个，一个接入运动皮层和躯体感觉皮层，然后第2个则，呃，位于受伤部位之后，所以如果你有一个服务，你知道，我们基本上要找神经元在哪里仍然有功能，嗯，然后植入第2个 Neuralink 设备，呃，并且，呃，让这2个设备彼此通信，直接把信号跨过它断裂的那个、无论哪个地方传过去。是啊，因为这就像一条断掉的电路，对吧？所以你有一条断掉的电路，你只要，你基本上只要在两边之间传输信号，而且你甚至不一定需要，去知道所有那些信号是什么，嗯，你只需要传输信号，嗯，所以就像如果你有一根，以太网线，你不需要知道以太网线上有什么，也能让

线缆工作，或者用无线以太网，从一个无线以太网，你知道，Wi-Fi 盒子传到另一个无线以太网 Wi-Fi 盒子，你不需要知道信号的内容是什么，就能传输信号。所以我确信那种事情是可能的，嗯，我不是说我们一定会做到，我不知道，我设定了不合理的预期，但我，我会说我确定这是可能的，而我们会努力让它实现，这样之后就能让人们重新行走和使用双手，而且我认为长期来看，也许能让一个，嗯，完全没有全身功能的人恢复完整的身体功能。你知道我们曾经在 B 上创建过一个埃隆·马斯克订阅档位吗？你见过吗？没有。你不知道我们做过这件事吗？我们当时，因为你要付很多

钱之类的吗？是啊，你和我们互动过几次，所以我们就像是在拉拢你成为订阅者，来订阅吧，但我们为你创造了属于我们自己的眼泪。那个，呃，档位的费用是多少？我不记得了，我想大概是，那是最高的付款，大概是每月99999美元之类的，但有人注册了，真的有人注册了。不过每次我查看时，我都会想，是他吗，是他吗？结果都是些随便什么人，他们选了那个，以为这是个玩笑，而实际上它确实在从他们的信用卡扣款。我们有，比如，我们有这么多愤怒的人说，如果你不退还这笔费用，我妻子会杀了我的。所以我们不得不把埃隆·马斯克的眼泪撤下来，所以我们把它撤下来了，我想是在你能，在你

你能找到它，但它就在那里，我们已经替你放在那里了。所以，好吧，谢谢，我想这算是一种恭维。我觉得是。好吧，说得非常有口才。好吧，我们用这10个问题在这里收尾怎么样？所以我们，呃，这个播客是在凯尔的车库里开始的，我们会在采访结束时问每位嘉宾同样的10个问题。我们从没想到会向埃隆·马斯克问这10个问题。这些是快问快答，所以你想答多快都可以。是啊。或者你也可以没完没了地说。是啊，由你决定。呃，你见过基督教说唱艺人卡门吗？嗯，我，我是说，我知道的唯一一位康芒音乐家是，嗯，康芒·米兰达，呃，你知道，她会跳舞，头上顶着像一个，像一个水果球。是啊，是啊。嗯，而你从没见过她？没有，她，她去世了。好的，在很久以前。好

吧，很酷，去查查他。你更像加尔文主义者，还是亚美尼亚人，或者亚美尼亚人？是啊，比如预定论。[音乐] 我，我想我的，我的头脑会说，嗯，决定论，而我的心说得非常好。是啊，我是说，我成长时，说来也好笑，嗯，我上的是圣公会主日学校，呃，你知道，基本上就是英格兰教会，嗯，而且，呃，但我也被送去上希伯来学前班，尽管我不是犹太人，但即便如此，我还是有一天唱着哈文·图·吉拉德，第二天又唱着耶稣，而且，你知道，没关系，如果你是个孩子，你知道，还有圣诞老人，还有比如，呃，你知道，嗯，所以，嗯，[音乐] 是啊，是啊，这回答了问题。呃，是啊，所以，呃，你可以往《圣经》里加1本书，会是什么？你们从来没有，人们从来没有更新过这些问题，让它们适用得更广泛

没有，从来没有。它们不可更改。是啊，到这时候它们就像《十诫》一样，嗯，我是说，程度稍微低一点。我记得我们可以在《启示录》之后加一章，比如这里有个幸福结局吗？比如，嗯，《启示录》第2部：幸福结局。嗯，你知道，如果有一本你认为每个人都应该读的真正的好书，因为它会被放在《圣经》后面，每个人都应该读这本书，你知道。好吧，实际上有多少人读过《圣经》？可能比声称读过的人少。哦，是啊。我是说，你有理由吗？我是说，有一阵子，我，你知道，在我还是个孩子的时候，我就像，我经历了这场存在主义危机，而我试图弄清楚生命的意义是什么，我就像，哦，一切都毫无意义，一切都，而且我，而且我，你知道

读了像一大堆宗教书籍，包括《圣经》，然后我就想，里面有很多他们在主日学校没有教你的东西，呃，索诺玛和蛾摩拉，黑暗，嗯，哎呀，嗯，你知道，上帝从《旧约》到《新约》肯定改变了想法。我就想，哇，《旧约》里那真是相当报复心重。问题是什么？你可以选1本书加进《圣经》。是啊，1本书，呃，《银河的吸引力》。哦，天啊。是啊，这是本很棒的书。是啊，雪茄还是烟斗？嗯，你知道，我不确定自己是否真的抽过烟斗，嗯，我祖父抽过，看起来有点酷，但我抽过雪茄，而且我觉得，比如，你知道，在庆祝的场合，比如雪茄加威士忌，是相当不错的组合。你可以和任何3个人一起消磨时间，无论在世的

还是去世的，他们是谁？要想出比如3个，总是很难。是啊。伊森、凯尔、赛斯，你正在和他们消磨时间。你这里正好有3个。这倒是真的。杰夫·贝索斯。呃，不一定，比如，呃，我觉得有很多人会很值得交谈，但，嗯，你知道，我不知道。呃，你说的是在世的还是去世的？是啊，在世或去世的。这，这只是，你知道，意识流，不是那种经过仔细思考的，是啊，呃，回答，但会是像，呃，我不喜欢莎士比亚、本·富兰克林，也许牛顿或爱因斯坦。好的，这是个不错的组合。一群白人男性。是啊，我当时在喝白衣服。克利奥帕特拉听起来很有趣。[笑声] 威士忌还是啤酒，或者我想他直接就选了威士忌，所以很好。好吧，呃，如果你当上总统，第一件会做的事是什么？嗯

U.的总统职位。

s 被设计成一个弱势职位，一个相对弱势的职位，嗯，因为你知道，显然这个国家的建国者不想建立君主制，你不想避免那种类似国王的局面，嗯，所以在 u.，总统职位大致上

s 本来就是弱势的，比方说，比议会制更弱，在议会制中，多数派基本上，众议院议长会成为总理或总统，嗯，所以你会说，比如在 u.，作为总统你能做什么

s 有很多限制，嗯，除非你得到国会支持，否则你显然无法修改法律，但我会，我大概会努力缩小政府规模，而且你知道，审视一下监管状况，确保对法规进行良好的垃圾清理，因为有很多法规已经过时、没有必要，呃，但但是，你知道，制定新法律和法规有一种强大的强制推动力，而废除糟糕法律和法规的强制推动力却很弱，嗯，而而而我认为，这通常是文明在没有战争的情况下逐渐老化时会出现的一个问题，每年都会制定新的法律和法规，所以对你能

做什么的限制会越来越多，但人们几乎不花什么力气去废除法律和法规，所以这就像文明的动脉硬化，最终会变成，哦，看，《埃尔维斯游记》，你只是被，你知道，成千上万根小绳子绑住了，并不是某一根绳子本身有问题，而是绳子太多，以至于你什么事都做不了，嗯，你知道，这就是我搬到得克萨斯州的一个原因，很大一部分原因，就是束缚你的绳子更少，嗯，所以是的，嗯，我认为，一个人仅仅作为一名非常称职的行政官员所具有的价值，嗯，在总统身上被低低估了，呃，就是你在管理事务和把事情办成方面到底有多出色，嗯，因为如果你是总统，你

有点像这个国家的 CEO，嗯，而且，呃，所以你擅长做事吗，你有效率而且相当有生产力吗，是的，你说 CEO 是一个没有意义的头衔，那是否意味着，我只是好奇这怎么，比如，好吧，CEO 并不是，不是一个法律头衔，好的，嗯，我只是说，所有这些头衔和合作都有点像是编造出来的，嗯，而当你填写表格成立一家公司时，就能看出一家公司实际上需要什么，所以你需要一名总裁、一名秘书和一名财务主管，就像你在表演一个国际象棋俱乐部、合唱团或类似的东西时一样，一样，一样，嗯，而且实际上严格来说，这三个职位全都可以由同一个人担任，所以这些才是法律所要求的，如果你没有这三样东西

你就无法作为一家公司运作，呃，其他所有东西，像总法律顾问、CFO、CEO，全都是编造出来的，就像它们没有法律上的、没有没有任何有意义的法律效力，所以，呃，你只需要那些，总裁、秘书、财务主管，嗯，所以有所有这些 CXO 头衔，你知道，它们多少有点像给简历增色的东西，嗯，我只是想说明，比如人们以为 CEO 是一个真正的头衔，但它不是，它不是，它不是一个具有法律意义的头衔，你需要有人被定义为总裁，但那就是，那就是，嗯，就这些，所以，嗯，现在你会有首席营销官、首席信息官、首席一切官，你知道，我我大概觉得，比如你应该设一个，这位是我们的魔法高级副总裁，好了，第八个问题，大师

将军，嗯，哦，对了，你打过人吗，或者你被人打过吗？你有什么很酷的打人故事吗？如果你没有答案，我们还有一个追问，它甚至更糟。我不知道有没有什么很酷的打人故事，但我，嗯，我长大的地方极其暴力，嗯，我从来没有，我从来没有挑起过打斗，除了和我弟弟打过，实际上有一个例外，是的，我打了，我会把我弟弟，我也不知道事情是不是这样，但，呃，[音乐] 我成长时期的南非本来就是一个非常暴力的地方，我打过脸很多次，我总是有一次被打死过，那么多次，我认为，如果你没有被人用拳头打过脸，你就不知道那是什么，你根本不知道那是什么感觉，令人震惊的感觉，令人震惊的感觉

你被惩罚过吗，伊桑？是的，就是被一些高中生。是的，不是，对，仍然只是，比如你的脸从来不会碰到任何东西，然后突然，是的，他们打他们的鼻子，比如你甚至都看不清，嗯，所以是的，嗯，人们觉得言语是……他们对言语如此敏感，这挺有意思，就像，伙计，你甚至被打过脸，言语什么都不算。好了，第九个问题，呃，你可以去看一场演唱会，历史上的任何乐队，你会去看谁？任何人。我不知道，也许是滚石乐队，你知道，当他们只是巅峰时期的滚石乐队时，似乎就像，还有鼎盛时期，是的，是的，吹毛求疵。好了，最后一个问题，为我们在这里的时间收尾。是的，我是说，我们在这里，我们，你知道，巴比伦蜜蜂是一个基督教组织，你知道，而且，呃，我们是

一个事工机构。好吧，那我们为什么要在周日晚上做这个节目？为什么你们的教会没有聚集起来？为什么你们不是异教徒和教会，正是如此，所以我们必须建立一座教会，本该是休息日。我们做了 Zoom 教会，就像上帝说周日不要工作。好的，我们继续吧，伙计们会因为这件事直接下去，进入整个耶稣，那是休息的事情。好的，直接下地狱。这是真的，这是真的，我，没关系，所以为了建立这座教会，我们必须做，我们必须确保，只是我们想知道，你能否快速帮我们一个忙，在节目中接受耶稣为你的主和救世主，嗯，个人奖项，你知道，就是一个简短的祷告。[音乐] 我是说，就这么说吧，比如我认同耶稣所倡导的原则，嗯，而且，你知道，有一些，一些，有

伟大的智慧存在于耶稣的教导之中，呃，而且我认同那些教导，嗯，而像调整另一边脸颊的语气这样的事情非常重要，因为与以眼还眼相反，以眼还眼会让所有人都失明，所以宽恕，你知道，很重要，而且要像你希望别人对待你那样对待别人，像爱我自己一样爱那个邻居，非常重要。所以这就像是一个 60 70，是的，是的，正如爱因斯坦会说的，[音乐] 我信仰斯宾诺莎的上帝。[音乐] 嗯，所以，嗯，但嘿，如果，嗯，你知道，如果耶稣在拯救人，我是说，我我不会挡他的路，你知道，比如我会，当然，我会安全，为什么不呢。太好了，我们做到了。是的，我想他刚刚说了愿意，我们成功了。好了，我们让他们变得令人兴奋。听起来不错。无论什么血和水，基督，它有点

很奇怪，你知道，如果你是个孩子，比如他们让你尝一些味道奇怪的，你知道，就是喝点葡萄酒，是啊，我就想，这到底是什么鬼，我就想，他说是的时候，这不就是把它切掉吗，我就想，这是什么逐渐淡去的食人隐喻之类的吗，我不明白，比如，什么——这到底是什么鬼。我记得我小时候觉得这简直太疯狂了，嗯，而且我就像是，哇，你知道，我是说，就算作为隐喻，它也挺奇怪的，不过你知道，是啊。所以这就像，我该给未成年人喝酒吗，我当时就说，我们用葡萄汁，好吧。是的，我觉得一个孩子居然会想到这些，甚至都不寻常，像小孩子一般只是照着流程做，后来你才会想，等一下，这实际上代表什么，我在做什么

我小时候就想，这真的是血和身体吗，什么，你知道，我不——我不知道自己想不想吃掉某个人，然后我就想，为什么，这——我是说，反正我还是做了，我就想，这看起来像是，好吧，老兄，我不知道，这就是挺奇怪的，你知道。我记得甚至在5岁时就这么想。所以我当时就，你知道，而且我肯定会在主日学校那里，你知道，他们给我讲所有那些故事，而我就不断提问，像是，而且他们真的会因为我提问而不高兴，而我就会说，你知道，耶稣好像用5条面包和3条鱼喂饱了人群，我就问，人群有多大，还有鱼和面包是从哪里来的，是像从他的斗篷里还是别的地方来的，因为

我当时会读书，我就觉得这就像是它们会实体化一样，比如我——我不知道它们是从哪里来的，你知道，比如这是怎么做到的，你会不会像是咬一口面包，然后面包就会重新变成一整个牌子，是啊，你一移开视线，这有点像他们漏掉了机制背景细节。宇宙是从哪里来的，嗯，[音乐] 好吧，是啊，我不是说我知道这里所有的答案，我只是，你知道，这只是，呃，而且耶稣显然非常支持饮酒，你知道，因为他的其中一项神迹就是把水变成葡萄酒。是啊，当时就像他们正在开派对，葡萄酒喝完了，于是他们就说，让我们让这面旗帜继续下去，好东西，谁能——谁能解决这个问题，我们在一块白布那里，那个

该死的商店关门了，而耶稣就像，我来搞定。好了，水，现在我就喜欢，继续派对，你知道。所以，你知道，准确地支持在没有所有眼睛的情况下开派对，真的，这就是神迹之一。《圣经》故事时间，你就是那个——就像你绝对是，你就是救世主，你很害怕，你用大量葡萄酒让派对继续下去了，这太棒了。嗯，所以，嗯，是啊，好吧，谢谢你，我非常感谢你来这里和我们交谈。非常不客气，很高兴亲自见到你，而且，呃，你知道，我们会——我们会继续抛出我们希望你能回应的讽刺内容，而且，你知道，让它继续一阵子。哦，我们没问《洋葱报》还是蜜蜂，不过我想之前其实已经算回答了。你之前提到了，是啊。是的，我们已经讲过了，是啊。我的意思是，我——我觉得《洋葱报》做了

随着时间推移，有一些极其好笑的东西，嗯，只是——只是它看起来，你知道，近些年来多少受到了世界我的病毒感染，所以这只会让一切变得没那么好笑。是啊，没错，工作人病毒是一个没有幽默的世界。是啊，我希望 Neuralink 能解决那个举动。谢谢你，谢谢你，非常感谢。谢谢。非常感谢。非常感谢。

so [Music] hey [Music] [Applause] [Music] these are the guys that run the show this is kyle our editor-in-chief this is creative director ethan nicole okay so i mean uh well i guess before we get started like uh maybe you guys can tell me like what's the you know how did the v get started and yeah and and uh yeah what's your deal and why do why are you in california that's way easier actually i'm much better at being interviewed so no problem yeah the view is just this little like christian humor site that we launched in 2016 and it was just like we spent 50 bucks on the domain name started writing jokes throwing them out there and it started to go big in conservative circles a couple years ago and that's just kind of where we got to where we are seth

is our ceo he bought the site a few years ago from the original founder yeah he was original his name is adam ford he's in love with the company anymore uh he owns a piece of it he does not the bee now you you've seen that the you know the yeah that was unaffiliated no yeah yeah yeah okay so they do like real news but crazy it's like a backup plan it's like when satire is impossible because the world's too absurd then we just report on the absurdity over on not to be so you know plan b yeah yeah reality is we're greater than fiction yeah exactly often is so how many people at the be now yeah we've got uh probably a dozen full-timers now it's grown pretty fast a year ago it was three of us we have over we have like 25 people involved just not all full-time

staff so you'd be surprised like with satire you don't have to have a writing staff like filling a room churning out articles all day long you can only handle so much satire every day you know like we're not people you don't need to publish an article every three minutes like fox news or daily wire or something like that so um we have a lot of part-time one of our writers here frank fleming is one of our writers um and he's got a full-time job he just writes for us on the side okay we'd love to have him full time yeah he lives in australia you live in austin okay yeah yeah and i'm a florida guy i have my head the headquarters are technically in south florida i'm in southeast florida yeah florida i'd love to get these guys to florida but it's hard to get

people out of california it really is uh yeah it's more challenging than you think despite uh like california's the state of california doing everything it can to encourage people to leave yes yeah um i think you had one article about how gavin newsom is your whole salesman of the year yeah yeah yeah actually true that's actually true [Laughter] so you don't miss it then i know i mean there's certainly many aspects of california that i do like um most of my friends are still in california some of my best friends like california so yeah i do i do most many aspects to california especially my friends and it's beautiful and lots of cool things but increasingly difficult to get things done and california used to be the land of opportunity and now it is the

has become and it's becoming more so the land of um [Music] sort of over regulation over litigation uh over taxation poop on the sidewalk and and scorn it's just that's what it's like it's not like thanks for the taxes it's like tate thanks for the texan hacksaw kicking the teeth let me flip the question though so that's kind of the story that be the bee started out as you know this little blog it took off it's kind of blown up into something like now we have a following including you like how how do we get on your radar people sharing our articles and you just saw them coming across your feed yeah um i'm not sure i saw it on twitter at one point the thoughts from the articles were quite quite funny um i wrote those okay um yeah i mean i i used to be

much bigger fan of the of the onion but then the onion just seems to have gotten really politically correct um you know it's sort of gone a bit but in the sml direction it's somewhat leftist as you know it's it's basically it will it will not really make fun of anything on the left but it used to be much more even-handed than the onion um and um and then they just they just got the work mind virus yeah so uh to the point where the animal just was it used to be very funny and then it was not that funny you know snl i used to be a huge fan of snl but you know i still think they have some some occasional good stuff but it's just become i think you've written some some articles about this um you know snl had many many if not most of the snl episodes are kind

of a a moral lecture on why we're bad human beings right uh instead of comedy yeah so and again uh won't make fun of anything on the left really like you know they'll beat up on ted cruz 17 000 times and you're like okay we get it and often because he's made fun of someone on the left he'll make fun of some on the left and then they jump on him for that it's like a defensive thing yeah yeah exactly so it's it's just um there are just a lot of no-fly zones uh with a lot of comedy um and uh and then and then you realize it's like wait a second is is a comedy is is the comedy getting at an essential truth or or trying to or is there is there a propaganda element or is it trying to push you in a particular direction or or getting getting to an essential truth

that is humorous and when it stops trying to get to an essential truth that that is that is humorous then you know it's it's just not that funny right now see that's exactly the criticism we get from the left the criticism from the left is that that's what we're doing with our humor is that we're trying to push a narrative neglecting the truth that's literally what the new york times says that we are far right misinformation disguised as satire right right so there's a it's almost where you're standing jealousy yeah it's almost based on where you're standing but how it's based on where you're standing yeah i i mean i'd say the b is probably it's moderately right um it's not it's not but it's not certainly not far right that my my impression is not that

uh i would say that the b is not probably it wouldn't be actually the b is fully centrist um but it is certainly not far right um if one is fully left and 10 is fully right the b seems to be at six 6.

5 uh towards okay right that ish bernie sanders elizabeth warren babylon b hitler or somewhere on that scale yeah it's it's not but you know it's it's uh i mean the the b is i think less right than than say the onion is is left for example you know so the the i think would be more left than that the b is right right righteous or whatever yeah right no i don't know we'll have to put that on our wikipedia page righteous propaganda you know you talked about the wilk mind virus and i was wondering if you could decipher this tweet of yours for me because i'm not a programmer you wrote trace route woke underscore mind underscore virus what does that mean okay so traceroute is a networking command to so if you want to figure out a path to a particular server

or domain you'd say traceroute or in windows trace rt that would show you the path to a particular source server with an ip address or domain name and and it would show basically all the hops that that it goes through um and the latency between each each hop and so i know some of those words yeah um so traceroute be yeah we like where'd it come from yeah where did the virus come from what is its origin so did this work did this command work or not did you find your comments read the comments and see and see all right it is a prevalent mind virus and um arguably one of the biggest threats to wine civilization also not having enough kids right yeah i think most people if you just have to look at the birth rate statistics um you can tell what the future

is going to be like because you can see how many children were born last year um and and then you could say like is this is the birth rate trending down or up and it's been trending down basically almost everywhere so if you look at the birth rate last year you know you know how many adults will be in 20 years because that's how many babies were born the trend is like you don't have to be some master of statistician or something like that um you could just look look at kids one last year trending to well below replacement rate uh and a lot of countries have been a well-veil replacement rate for a long time well the concern is that if you have kids then they'll contribute to climate change and they'll kill the earth right that's the leftist concern is

that we're overpopulating the earth and we're going to kill it are you trying to overpopulate the earth so that we can go to mars and take over and take over mars is this a deliberate strategy the earth is far from overpopulated um uh far far from overpopulated um so the you know the the thing that's necessary to minimize the chemical change to the atmosphere and oceans is to move to sustainable energy generation and consumption so the three elements of a sustainable energy future are sustainably energy generation primarily through solar wind some geothermal hydro and nuclear although they're shutting down all the nuclear power stations so yeah you can sort of cross that one of the list which they shouldn't be doing they should just keep they should keep

moving um they're really unless a nuclear power plant is in a region of uh major national disasters instability or something yeah yeah you don't want to be like you know subject to massive um natural disasters because obviously that could be a problem but if you're you know like say germany or france or whatever you don't have those so the nuclear power is very safe um but anyway the the long-term um the heavy lifting on energy generation will be solar followed by wind and um and you really don't need a very large land area to generate enough power to power for example united states so it's on the order of you know roughly a little over 100 miles by 100 miles a second of land with solar solar panels would power the entire united states so like a little

corner of utah or texas like um it can power the whole country so anyway so uh it's really not that hard the solar incidence is a gigawatt per square kilometer uh if for most neutrons can do some calculations most nuclear power plants yeah that's right it's it's it's a kilowatt per square per square k per square meter and there's a million square you know million square meters in a square kilometer so um it's a pretty simple uh math so and then you get you get like maybe 20 efficiency on that so call it like a net power generation of 200 megawatts per square kilometer now if you take most nuclear power plants there's usually a a pretty clear area around a nuclear power plant because people don't usually want to live right next to a nuclear power plant

so um the area of most nuclear power plants that is uninhabited if if covered in solar panels would generate more power than the nuclear power plant and then you also then the second element that's needed are batteries to store solar and wind because uh the sun doesn't shine all the time and the wind doesn't blow all the time so the enter the intermittency of uh solar and wind requires battery storage for continuous power uh so that's the second part of the of the sort of second the second pillar of sustainable energy and the third is uh sustainable transport so that means uh electric uh cars boats planes and then ironically the one thing that you can't really make electric is rockets you know the same involved in that but but although you can over time

use solar power to generate fuel by pulling co2 out of the atmosphere combining it with h2o creating ch4 which is methane and o2 oxygen and rockets are mostly oxygen by mass so over time you can make everything basically solar power so you're working on some of those problems but the problem of wokeness specifically you mentioned that's like a mind virus and it's destructive uh and why do you think wokeness is so interested in your opinions too um but you know like i mean generally i think we should be aiming for like a positive society and uh you know that it should be okay to you know be humorous uh like you know like we should we should like like workness basically wants to make comedy illegal which is not cool we've experienced that i mean chappelle

like what the flower bed i mean try to shut down chappelle come on man that's crazy um so um you know so do we want a humorless society that is simply rife with condemnation uh and hate basically uh and no forgiveness right yeah [Music] at its heart awokeness is divisive um exclusionary um and hateful it's it's it basically gives mean people a reason a a a a it gives them a shield to be to be mean and cruel armored and false virtue what do you think i'd agree with that yeah yeah i mean we've obviously seen that from the left you know just ourselves you know the left is almost this religion now where they're so serious and they believe what they believe with such intensity that for us to make fun of them you know for them it's like you're making fun of

god or salvation you know so they're almost the new religious right in our view yeah he agreed with me [Laughter] well you were pretty mean to uh senator warren though on twitter recently you slammed her man please don't call the manager on me senator karen she struck first yeah obviously right yes she did actually called me a freeloader yeah um anna grifter doesn't pay taxes basically um and i'm literally paying the most tax that any individual in history has ever paid this year ever and she doesn't pay taxes basically at all and her tax and her salary is paid for by the taxpayer like me could you even use could you use turbo attorney would that even work if you could die by irony she would be she would be dead fiery could kill what would happen if you

walked into an h r block to file your taxes like could they handle your case my taxes are actually not that complicated um i do not have any offshore accounts i don't have any uh tax shelters uh uh i i have a i have basically a tesla and spacex stock um and um tesla's publicly traded so information is public and spacex is you know ac corp that is audited uh you know it has outside orders so it these it's it'll with that uh outside investors so it is they're also it's everything is extremely transparent um there are there is no uh there are no elaborate sort of tax avoidance schemes or or anything like that so hr block could could easily do my taxes you know i don't need a html block i could do it yeah you know it would like probably take me a few hours

to do my taxes it's very basic did you sell that stock in tesla because of the twitter poll uh in part you made up your mind that you're already going to do that before the twitter poll um there i i have some test options that are expiring next year that so i needed to exercise those options no matter what and and i was like okay i'll move forward and exercise those options um so that that's only would be part of it uh no matter what uh but then over and above that i sold incremental stock uh to uh try to get up to the 10 level so just the option exercise loan would not get to 10 so i sold a stock that should be roughly make my total uh tesla share sale roughly 10 is the most annoying thing in the world people asking you questions like this about your

personal finances no one ever asks me what stock i'm selling or or why i made so much money last year i mean i'm the third richest man on my street which is which is pretty good pretty good i mean i'm not sure it's it's all that productive or interesting you know essentially all of my net worth is uh it's just in spacex and tesla stock these two companies that that i helped create uh and have run for now almost 20 years um have done a lot of useful things um spacex is the launch is more paleo to orbit than the rest of the world combined and has a global internet system called starlink and and is the primary provider well the only us provider of uh astronaut transport to the space station um we publish six to eight satire articles a day some of them are

funny i mean pretty good so so spacex uh yeah it transports us and as well as non-us astronauts to the space station that was previously the u.

s was dependent on on russia uh who's doing a good job but charging kind of crazy money proceed so as with spacex the the cost per astronaut dropped dramatically and and the money was you know went to jobs in the us so that's what why people you know think spacex is valuable uh tesla uh i mean the annoyance though of like people uh holding it against you that you've had success holding it against you that you have wealth um you know viewing billionaires as evil and you know you're not doing enough to give back you know you have like the elizabeth warren thing that you haven't paid your fair share i mean that's you know it's that's got to be kind of aggravating yeah i think it's just important to understand like like what is this wealth uh it's not like

some it's not like i've got like some some mashup massive cash balance uh i've my cash balances are very very low and at least until i sold stock which is really the first time i've actually sold stock in any meaningful way was this quarter i simply had loans against my my stock so i i i if tesla spacex went bankrupt i would go bankrupt too immediately so um it's not realized this is what you're saying yeah it's not no it's like people it's just like it's like you know i built these two companies and it was extremely difficult to build them like massively painful and difficult rewarding too but also but massively painful difficult um and uh and and i didn't i didn't sell the stock in the companies um you know i i you know my my sort of impression was

that you know you you shouldn't take money off the table or you shouldn't you shouldn't take stock off the table and de-risk things that a captain should go down you know with their ship so so it's like okay like you know i don't want to take money off the table and then then if the companies fail then i will be i'll be sort of enriched while investors suffer and that does not seem right so anyway so i that's the reason i didn't sell is is i could easily have diversified and protected myself financially if if spacex would tell them went bankrupt but i did not and spacex and tesla came very close to bankruptcy many times even when bankruptcy was literally weeks away i did not sell stock uh and then the companies became valuable not tesla's value is basically

because value is not it's not up to me it's up to investors and they decided it was worth tesla's worth trillion dollars in the public market so and i own twenty percent of the company so so you're not apologizing right now you're not going to look into the camera and say i'm so sorry in the camera right now i'm just trying to explain like i don't think people necessarily understand they don't yeah yeah that uh this this is not you know that some function of sort of hoarding or something it's it's simply that you know i'm 20 company that became very valuable as decided by external investors and so twenty percent of a trillion dollar evaluation is 200 billion dollars um and i i've you know i've said at various times that i think the stock price is too

high but the investors just ignored that i'm like okay i literally said it's too high um and they just kept making that price higher so i'm like tell them our value is too high so anyway so just that's uh but like i said this is not like uh my so-called wealth is it's not some it's not some deep mystery it's simply what is my ownership percentage of spacex and tesla multiply that by the valuation that's my worth it's super simple and my taxes are super simple and i have no like i said no offshore accounts no sort of clever tax evasion or anything like that and i don't i don't draw a salary or any cash salary or bonus from the companies at all so um again i thought that was like morally good to not do that um and so there were there were like there was

one year i think 2018 where where i i didn't pay any tax uh but but that's because i didn't have any income um and and and i did have a little bit of income but i'd actually overpaid taxes i think in 2017.

so i paid too much tax and so i got like i basically netted that out in in 2018 because i paid too much tax in 2017.

accidentally unless you sell stock there are no realized gains so uh so then i was like well should i sell like i i like what am i supposed to do why send shares to the government somehow i don't know if you can even do that yeah um so there was like well like unless i sell shares there's not there's no there's no actual mechanism to pay tax so then i was like well should i sell 10 percent you know to in order to pay tax and and i sort of asked twitter and they're like on balance they said yes and so i um so i i sold enough stock to get to around ten percent plus the option exercise stuff and uh i very i try to be extremely literal um so you don't generally need to read between lines you can just read the lines [Music] so that's it as the as the fattest

guy here i i want to know what's when are you gonna make the candy company because you said on twitter that you're making a candy company and you're the closest thing to willy wonka that this culture has it could be willy wonka i didn't say it would you say that he said i'm starting a canadian company it's going to be warren buffett um but you did say i am super super serious i think if you put two supers before sirius that makes sense and that's like you're probably not serious you know just uh for satire writers out there yeah um i thought that locked him in is like definitely syria he's explaining jokes to it yeah yeah yeah it's just a guy said let me tell you how jokes accept our words um you know i was just obviously i was just like making fun of

warren buffett who's like really he's got this like candy company and stuff so um and um that was my one question now i i i did actually i did actually experiment with um trying to find some compelling candy that would be like i don't know maybe much better than other candy um we tried various candy options but i didn't find any i couldn't figure out a candy that was like just way better than other candy um like a little bit better but not a lot better and so it was like unless it's like really a great product then you looked into this yeah yeah we tried a whole bunch of different candies and uh and it was like there's not anything like that's obviously just way better uh so um i don't want to just have like a pretty good candies if there's like a great

candy yeah some aces some candy that's aces um but you know we don't need another sort of like pretty good candy yeah yeah there's plenty of the south yeah yeah what does that look like when you like suddenly get an idea like we should make candy you like you just call somebody like how does what what are the steps that suddenly take place when you're like because you do so many things i'm just fascinated by the what that process looks like rockets tell them you got a guy you call jim i want to make candy make it happen um i think i did ask for you know people on twitter to send me candy that they thought was good it's deployed and i was like well what if some of those candy is like you know it's poisonous or something but whatever like you know candy

from strangers on the internet yeah it could go wrong that's just not 100 safe um but uh i did try a whole bunch of candy scent from strangers what's your favorite candy well there was like a a pretty good like peanut like some pretty good peanut brittle ones or like that peanut butter with a bunch of other stuff in it and some pretty good chocolates but but nothing that was like blew me away so um and and then there were people at spacex and tesla that sent me some candy options but not nothing that was it's not like i care about starting companies like if there's like there are if there's a very compelling product or service then that's the thing that is important not the company your company is just an assemblage of people to create a compelling product

or service and if a company does not provide great products and services it should not exist there's no point in the company for the sake of being a company that's pointless companies should only exist to provide great products and services a company is just just literally a group of people so do we have to close or stay open i think there's a lot of there's a lot of companies out there that probably should just be disbanded because they don't make uh compelling products and services they're spoilers and those people better that those people do something else i think on that topic i mean the question that i just like really i feel so unqualified to be interviewing you right now i think we all do why are we here like what what are you doing okay i'm not

the one who asked for the podcast you guys did just to be clear i'm not pushing the podcast on you you guys came here we just we were like i will stop by you know texas yeah just to be clear who was asking her i'm not i'm not like you know i know i know exactly hold a gun to your head for this podcast you could be on cnn right now yeah you know john a real news organization yeah i'm just throwing it out there i don't know unfortunately i just you know haven't um you know i guess uh you know what what was it you said the the requirement for being a cnn driver cnn is uh are you are you a pervert yeah i'm not perverted enough yeah i guess i don't know not a big pedophile fan you know bad mommy headlines better than i do [Laughter] i think you know a lot

of us fantasize about if we had lots and lots and lots of money what we do and you've done a lot of the things that like a lot of us fantasize about build cool robots gonna go to mars we're gonna fix traffic but most of us also think we've become batman have you ever thought about like what would that really look like to become or would you go batman or iron man around what because crime is on the right that's a fruit bat or an insect bat i like the dragon ball big scary you know because most bats are either fruit or they carry a lot of diseases yeah yeah they eat fruit bugs like fruit batman intake batman i need to read that spin-off comic it's a strange choice of uh creature to emulate you know you take a different animal like maybe monkeys that play

pong with their brains man [Music] monkey man monkey man yeah exactly just very agile they're the smartest animal right they can just uh swing monkey man that batman is more is more like monkey man really yeah because he's like he's swinging around and very agile um climbing up things and yeah throwing a battering is more likely for batman like why can't he fly if he's batman that's gonna fly yeah that's right he just yeah he glides very effectively though okay so he's really yeah but that's like a frank's more like flying [Laughter] less intimidating i guess yeah oh no squirrel man we're he's going to get us not squirrel man again yeah without making the grappling hook he has that thing's sweet we need those you can make probably make that yeah yeah

sure you can make a grappling hood um i i mean like like when you it's like they sort of skip the parts where like batman's always on the top of the building but like once you get to the ground floor how do you get back to the top of the building yeah it's like you're going to huffing and puffing you know yeah yeah you never see how do you get the top of a skyscraper even if you've got a grappling hook i mean how big is your grappling hook like 50 stories like how big is that cable you know it's not really feasible um so you just got to like run up the stairs or take the elevator so it's like how do you get back up to the top of the skyscraper in gotham city it's always like tough with some tall buildings so iron man then he'd be like iron man yeah iron

man because you're good at calculating the cost of things and stuff like that so like would it be cheaper to become batman iron man or just pay every criminal that you encounter a salary to just stop being a criminal i think they're trying to have to be um irony man irony man um i just defeat villains using the power of irony it's like oh too much irony i can't stand it please no stop the irony i can't handle it anymore i give up i give up too much irony that'd be rough that'd be awesome that'd be totally awesome that would be awesome yeah don't make me use irony again cheaper too what are your thoughts on the metaverse which takes technology to the next level and puts us in like a virtual world like do you see that as being dangerous hopeful for humanity

like what's your view on that maybe we're in the metaverse right now it's just mata versus all the way down um i don't know if i necessarily buy into this metaphor stuff although people talk to me a lot about it web 3.

sure you can put a tv on your nose i'm not sure that makes you in the metaverse you know um it's like weird like you know when i grew up it's like don't sit too close to tv it's going to ruin your eyesight right and now we got like tv is like literally right here i'm like uh what is that good for you i mean have you tried these games you know the art oculus stuff yeah they're okay you know but like it gives you motion sickness if you try to walk around like you can do a video game on your sort of computer console or whatever and and you can you can be in a like a first person game and and uh and move rapidly and not get set motion sickness but if you try to do that in a beat with vr goggles you get motion sickness it's like weird so you have to like teleport

around with it's okay so that doesn't it doesn't feel like like that's the answer necessarily um into the brain so you don't have to have the glasses there you go yeah a neurolink long-term sophisticated neural link could um put you fully fully in a virtual reality thing um so i guess what i'm getting at is yeah exactly what could go wrong like the the negative implications the kind of dystopian implications that some are drawing out like i think it was i think jack dorsey was really critical of the whole metaverse idea you see problems with people i don't know living in a virtual world and leaving a physical world for for that and i don't see someone strapping a friggin t you know screen to their face all day uh and not wanting to ever leave there seems

no way i mean does it feel like that to you it doesn't seem like that to me yeah it's like it gets uncomfortable to have this thing strapped to your head the whole time it definitely needs to be lighter yeah even if the weight i mean if it was like super light it will still be like i don't know it's not so like you won't be there all day so you know i think we're far from disappearing into the metaverse uh this sounds just kind of buzz wordy and you know i don't feel like hit like okay is this you know i've just gotten too old and like am i like one of those people who was like dismissing the internet whatever 95 as being like some fad or something that's never going to amount to anything although i didn't i was like saying like 95 was literally the internet

is going to be transform humanity and going to be like you know prior information basically just went by osmosis like unless a person called another person or carried a letter physically to another person like how did you get information around the vast majority of information was literally person to person then they had like the fax machine and stuff but it's just like the way the metaverse is being sold right now is so underwhelming it's like you're going to be in it's like zoom meetings but there's an avatar for the person next to you you know and you maybe maybe get to design your avatar like i said i don't i don't feel like you know someone some old codger sort of dismissing the internet in 95 is not amounting to anything so there's some danger of

that that's the case but uh i i currently am unable to see a compelling metaverse situation or web 3 sounds like more marketing than reality i don't get it you know and maybe i will so but i don't get it yet let me put that away it's definitely not monkeys playing pong let's just put it that way yeah i just like to advertise for white chloe yeah quite quote real men drink white clothes can we get our guys on the phone with white club sponsor after the fact if you want us to leave that in yeah then you won't pay us was it you know this is the first white call the first white claw ever drunk on the babylon v podcast so that's great you hit a point in your life where you you know you made plenty of money and you could do whatever what drives you to this

campaign yeah it could be slipping my ties on right on a tropical island uh i've been wrong all this time why am i working 90 hours a week this is crazy because i'm always passing me the idea of like i've made it people always want to say be able to say i've made it i've arrived yeah and like how do you you know you hit those little islands in your life and you actually have to break yourself up that mindset and what are ways that you break yourself of that mindset and keep on going i didn't put all this effort into building spacex and tesla because i thought there were easy ways to make money i mean anyone who starts a car company thinking it's easy way to make money as a fool there are only two car companies that have not gone bankrupt in the history

of the united states and that's ford and tesla and tesla came within inches of going bankrupt multiple times as does spacex so right and like who starts rocket company think it's going to be successful um i thought about i mean both both those companies i i thought had less than a 10 chance of success and i thought it was overwhelmingly likely that i would lose the money that i made from paypal you know i came to north america when i was 17 just by myself um and i had like like a few thousand dollars in in traveller's checks back when travelers tracks were a thing you know um in canadian dollars i landed in montreal um i have some family in canada uh and my mom's uncle lived in montreal but like we did we didn't know his phone number so i landed montreal

and my mom says i just got a letter back from my uncle he's in minnesota or something so i'm like okay i don't know what to do now so i just stayed in youth hostel and like bought a bus take it across canada and i worked in various like odd jobs and stuff worked on my on my mom's cousin's farm wheat farm in saskatchewan for six weeks that's where i had my 18th birthday actually i worked in the lumber mall chainsawed logs and did various on jobs and and then went to college in canada for a couple years i paid my own way through college by the way so but in canada it's like easier because the college is more subsidized and i was a canadian citizen through my mom so and i got some scholarships and loans and stuff and and then i applied to the university

of pennsylvania and uh didn't think i'd be able to go because tuition is really high but they gave me a scholarship and loans and stuff so i was able to go there i graduated with about a hundred thousand dollars in student debt and um i was going to do grad studies at stanford and decided to put that on hold to try starting an internet company um i actually i tried to get a job at netscape but they didn't i'd send my resume and i get a response so i was like okay i guess i should i can't get a job at the there are only a few internet companies and that can get a job at any of them so i was like i guess i want to do something internet got to start my own company but i ended up writing the first maps and directions on the internet i wrote personally the

maps directions yellow pages white pages on a puny computer like with hardly any so you had to be like the code had to be super tight i even have some patents on like maps and directions and yellow pages and white pages and stuff from from ages ago they're lapsed now but that that company ended up getting bought by by compact for about 300 million dollars i own seven percent of the company so i got like 20 million from that put most of it into uh x.

com which merged with confinity to create paypal and then i got about 180 million dollars from that and i put all of that into spacex tesla and solarcity i just basically kept you know kept all the chips on the table and just like let's play another round but most people take the trips off the table or at least some of their chips and uh and then spacex and tesla ended up being valuable and that's where i am but the the reason for spacex and tesla is you know tesla if you say like what is what is the how would you assess the historical good of tesla i'd say it's the degree to which tesla accelerated sustainable energy and i've been interested in electric cars for a long time um since maybe high school or certainly early college my original interest in

electric vehicles was not so much due to environmental concerns but rather from the uh concern that we'd run out of oil eventually and or become extremely scarce and expensive and then a civilization would collapse because we can drive cars or you know run power plants and stuff so so we needed some form of sustainable energy generation and consumption or where civilization is going to collapse so that was my original interest in electric vehicles and solar energy and and then i do think there's um some risk of uh negatively affecting the climate uh you know as you increase the co2 concentration in the oceans and atmosphere this you increase the risk of something uh going wrong um i i i'm not like in the camp of of the super alarmist uh global warming

i like you know like i think like i don't think we're like um screwed because of like the the current parts per million of co2 in the ocean's atmosphere i think like this is actually not not a terrible level however the there's so much inertia in the direction of mining and burning hydrocarbons that you know the the world is still over overwhelmingly dependent on mining and burning hydrocarbons um so you know if this continues and you start really driving up the co2 in the oceans and atmosphere then there's this increased risk of accelerating climate change basically warming up the oceans and um and raising the sea level so so i think that's like it's just i think that's probably just not a wise risk to take since we will in any case uh have to transition

to sustainable energy long term because we will eventually run out of oil and coal to minor burn uh then why run the experiment to see if you know to see if something bad will happen with a high co2 concentration in the ocean's atmosphere like it's a pointless experiment like we know we have to get to some uh sustainable energy economy it's total logical like so i think there's we should try to get there sooner so as not to run the risk of climate change it would not climate change would not be catastrophic for civilization but it would be very disruptive humans love living right on the ocean so it's like we're almost like a like a thermometer it's like it's like if we were living right on the beach okay so uh this is like so even small changes in the

sea level in sea level will put a lot of houses underwater against little little changes not enough to be vague we just we've just inherently created civilization as highly sensitive to changes in temperature a lot of politicians who are alarmist about this stuff buy homes right on the water though don't they that's true yeah i mean i i'm not sort of into like vilifying the oil and gas industry because i think i think the the reality is like if uh if we don't have oil and gas right now civilization would collapse and everyone will be starving so we obviously need oil and gas right now it'd be absurd to just stop it like it's not not feasible um but but i do think we should be trying to accelerate progress towards a sustainable energy future uh not slow

it down you know i think it's just a sensible thing to do to to try to move faster to a sustainable energy economy uh rather than slower um because that reduces the risk of the climate experiment and like i said since we know we have to get to a sustainable energy economy anyway why run this experiment it's it's just not smart anyway so so the fundamental good of tesla i think is by you know should be measured by how by how many years did tesla accelerate the transition to a sustainable energy economy um 10 years 20 years you know that's like the fundamental good of the company but to ethan's point he's asking like why not like is that is that your is that your answer for why you keep going is because these are these things make a difference they make

a difference ultimately for the flourishing of humanity for the longevity of humanity is that why you're not on a beach somewhere sipping my ties or white claws yeah i don't actually drink a lot of white qualifier this is not about like trying to enrich myself um i do not live a life of conspicuous consumption i work you know very long hours and but i think i think what tells us is doing is important to the future and that's that's why i keep doing it and i think you know it's it's something i think is uh tesla increases the probability that the future will be good for humanity and and then for spacex um i think i think uh it's important that we take the actions like that we become a space bearing civilization and a multi-planet species this is an exciting

inspiring future you know you need to have things that when you wake up in the morning you're like you're excited about the future why live if it's all about solving problems of being miserable like why live um so they've got to be things that are that are inspiring that like you know get you in the heart and i think space is one of those things so you know look at the apollo program and you know sending people to the moon in and wasn't that a great thing for all of humanity great thing and if you ask people like one of what are some of the greatest things that humanity's ever done that would be one of them i think er you know around the world people would agree with that you know if you believe it really happened yes i do get that question this is um

yeah we we went to the moon not just once but but several times and um i think the russians would have called us out on that one if it wasn't true you know uh to say the least among among this is like the yeah it's we went to the we went to the moon the russians didn't like us at the time yeah but so you know it's not a huge fan of it they wouldn't have like they were looking at us through telescopes like is this real or why you know uh they would have a bubblegum if it wasn't that's for sure there's a huge you know victory you know ideological victory for the united states and western civilization so but anyway the the point is like we we want to have an exciting inspiring future and and one where we are space spring civilization and multi-planet species

i think is a much more exciting and inspiring future than one where we are forever confined to earth and never go back to the moon and and the moon was our high water mark and that's all we ever did that's depressing and and there's also from a long-term basis if we're a multi-planet species it's like life insurance for life itself not just for humans but for for all the creatures on earth um because we bring them with us and and they can't build spaceships so you know we are we're in effect the steward of life um and you know we can make a we can make mars like a you know another planet with life on it um you know it is you know uh it's probably a dangerous analogy to use but it it's a bit like noah's ark but you know we bring more than two of every

creature because it's a little incestuous frankly um yeah i mean like how's this work you know second generation and did he hate the dinosaurs like what's uh [Laughter] why why was it like after the dinosaurs it's like pro-incest battle dinosaurs i don't get it and it would have to be a very big vote so but there's you know it's a metaphor perhaps i don't know um yeah but so anyway so like there's there's some some risk especially over a long period of time that so many calamities would happen to earth and if we're just in one planet that would be the end of life itself and certainly the the sun the sun is slowly expanding so uh you know the earth are roughly four and a half billion years old some people might disagree with that but it appears to be that

way um uh and um in roughly half a billion years the sun will expand to big make earth probably uninhabitable in a billion years definitely uninhabitable so basically if intelligent life had take taken 10 percent longer to evolve on earth then it would never evolved at all because it would be destroyed because the oceans would boil and and they would we wouldn't be able to exist so i mean no matter what the universal end in heat death though right eventually so it's all futile to some extent if you go far enough um yeah i mean i think the if if heat death is the outcome of the universe it really all is all about the journey like you know they said like you know the journey is is is uh half the fun is the journey or whatever well if he death is the end

of the universe the journey is all the fun you know can we just evolve heat resistance become like lava beings it's not it's not it's cold it cools eventually with entropy and i'm not a scientist entropy the ultimate he thought the devil was bad try entropy yeah okay try getting away from that but yeah i mean the yes i mean technically the being a multi-planet species would increase the probable lifespan of of civilization and and life as we know it um so i mean we humans don't live forever so but just because we don't live forever does not mean that civilization cannot live much longer than we do a civilization lives much longer than any individual human so this is not about like escaping to mars this is simply i mean i i will die probably long before

moz is a self-sustaining civilization it's just i think something we should we should do in order to have a much longer probable lifespan of civilization and it's interesting and exciting and and mars is like us it's like an essential next step to like there are these like you know uh filters they're called like the great filters and because you have to say like where are the aliens you know it's like the fermi paradox where are the aliens if the universe is 13.

8 billion years old shouldn't they be everywhere by now and i'm not aware of any evidence for aliens people ask me about that too uh we're the aliens i'm like man if anyone would know about evidence of aliens it would be me and i i've seen nothing so i think it may have been called sagan who said you know there's like we're either alone in in the galaxy or there are a lot of aliens and and each answer is arguably equally terrifying um it's like it's like hey we found it aliens are on their way uh too bad it's the invasion fleet um you know um so i i don't know it's like where are they where are the aliens like maybe there aren't any endless galaxy um and maybe the what we have here is a very very rare situation um you know a belief a brief flickering

of consciousness in the die like a little candle in a vast darkness and we should not let that little candle go out so my dad's a rocket scientist at bowling and he had a question engineer well whatever when people say rocket scientists they really mean rocket engineer okay yeah so he's a rocket engineer and he says at what mach number does starship endure max q maximum dynamic pressure how much pressure is that does that make any sense to you uh yeah so uh yeah max q maximum dynamics pressure is is when you're at um a combination of speed and atmospheric density such that the uh the wind force on the rocket is is the highest and so as you climb higher and higher the atmospheric density decays exponentially um and so you hit this point of the combination

of velocity and air density which is maximum dynamic pressure maximum q um and uh this this is mostly a function of thrust to weight so if you have a low thrust weight rocket you will have a typically a lower max q um and if you have a high thrust weight rocket you'll have a higher max q if you do not throttle down and so uh and it also kind of depends on on what trajectory you're flying are you flying a low with over trajectory uh single burn insertion or or eight eight uh say a geosynchronous transfer orbit with a lower perigee then you'll have a higher a higher max q because you will spend you'll spend more time going uh sort of horizontal instead of vertical um getting to orbit is mostly about you what getting to what it is is about your your velocity

parallel to the other surface so around mark 23 to mark 25 uh you're you know so roughly 23 ish times the speed of sound is when you reach uh orbit orbital velocity roughly 17 000 miles an hour so um and and that's that's what it means to go up and stay up you only need height in order to get out of the high density portion of the atmosphere so that you don't slow down um none of that was correct i disagree yeah i disagree i agree i give a totally different answer i don't have time to get into it [Laughter] yeah so i mean typically um a rocket is going to hit max q uh somewhere between mach 1.

4 and 1.

8 and um and and that q level is going to be maybe 400 to 800 pounds per square foot um uh now a starship is intended to have a higher a higher thrust weight because with a fully reusable rocket the the cost of propellant starts to become significant whereas if you have an expandable rocket or a partially reusable rocket the cost of propellant is is tiny compared to the cost of the rocket so you actually want a higher thrust to weight to minimize cost per ton to orbit with a fully reusable rocket than you would for an expendable so probably starship will have at least a 1.

3 if not closer to a 1. 5 thrust to weight which would uh if without throttling down which aspirationally we would not throw down uh would would have a quite a high q um maybe as high as uh a thousand uh or even 1200 pounds per square foot um so that's uh and probably probably you know uh at work velocity i mean i guess uh mach 1. 4 to 1.

5 something like that okay well my dad very much enjoyed that answer i'm sure i think as a male feminist though one thing about the rockets is the phallic symbology what would it take to get some more vaginal shaped rockets just you know for well equality um can we make that happen aerodynamics dynamics is going to give you a serious answer share similar properties whether biological or mechanical okay good answer that's all i got on a rocket science uh robots yeah teslabot so you're creating robots have you ever seen a sci-fi movie in your life never okay i thought maybe not you know like because things came out what's the worst that could happen yeah um the robots are not the the scary part the scary part is uh agi or artificial general intelligence

digital super intelligence that far exceeds human intelligence um and um you know if if if there's a digital super intelligence that is just vastly smarter than the smartest human um we could lose control of it and then it it could it could just it could do something bad potentially um these things are just probabilities they're not certainties um so it's not the road like it's not the robots it's the digital super intelligence to be concerned about i think this is definitely one of the issues that we need to be concerned about as an existential risk i think we should have a regulatory agency that oversees uh advanced ai um because you know generally like i do think there are important roles for the government and and one of those roles is in regulation

of industry to make sure that any any that the company is not making short cuts that endanger the public so you know the faa does has done done generally a great great job of ensuring that aircraft are safe you know it's literally safer to fly on an american airline or any any sort of airline overseen by the faa uh than it is to live in your house just to give people a sense of well you're more likely to die your probable lifespan is less if you lived your entire life in your house or than if you lived on a plane because in your house you can get murdered by a spouse get bitten by a laos but if you live in a plane in afghanistan that's not maybe that's the case well if it's not if if it's not overseen by um a a uh regulator that like the faa then then

then it's not necessarily gonna meet the same safety standards what if your spouse is on the plane well i think so the planes have you know they have means of stuffing like you can't it's hard to bring a gun on a plane yeah um and uh even a knife or even a bottle of lotion at this point you know so your spouse couldn't bring any of those things let me just punch you with it or stab you with a sport you know plastic spoke you know it's like hard to kill someone with a spork um so yeah and then planes also have like the flight attendants are trained in first aid they've got like uh they can do cpr they've got defibrillators uh if if somebody's having medical issues they'll immediately land the plane and the ambulance will meet you at the airport so uh and

you're not gonna like you know drown the bathtub or get electrocuted by a toaster or you know have your house burned down or because of the toaster by the way toasters cause a lot of houses to burn down yeah it's one of the one of the main causes of house burning down are like toasters and dryers there's also a decent chance there's a doctor on the plane at any given time right that happens all the time like a doctor is like treating somebody on a plane in your house you know yeah so planes are very safe and and i mean generally speaking the fda does a good job of overseeing uh food and drugs you know this might be a bit of a conservative bias on you know where uh at times there's an asymmetry with the fda where um something that that could help a lot

of people is not approved because it it might hurt a small number of people so that there's a sort of like a a bit of a a bit of an asymmetry uh like so regulators the in general can have a bit of an asymmetry uh where they are they're punished a lot for something going wrong but not rewarded enough for going something going right um so that's just a general uh challenge with the the punishment and reward of regulators they can be a little conservative so but i think there should be a regulatory agency to oversee um you know anything that is a danger to the public um so and i think agi could be an interest in public so therefore should should have some oversight um and normally regulatory agencies are very reactive um so like for seat belts for example

which lack of seatbelts caused i don't know 10 million deaths worldwide i mean a massive number and the car industry fought seat belts for a very long time and uh and eventually after many deaths the defender department of transport nitsa which oversees his regulatory body for cars said all cars have to have seat belts but you can't just not have a seat belt but that i know it took 15 years or something or maybe longer uh maybe 20 years before seat belts were mandated so and then you know baby seats are a lot a lot of kids and babies died because they're just like sitting on this you know on a seat with nothing i mean i i kind of grew up sitting on a seat with nothing yeah we'd ride in the bed of the truck yeah seriously running the better build pickup

truck survivor bias or something i was fine but yeah i was fine but if there was an accident it was game over you know yeah um so so you do see some good in government with when it comes to regulation and stuff like that but you don't generally think the government can spend your money more effectively than you can yeah i mean i would say like generally i'm like i think pretty moderate i'm not like sort of an extreme libertarian um i think there are roles for the government uh that makes sense like i don't think we necessarily want like a private army uh or private police force or private yeah i think there's you know uh certain things that that are probably the the right role for the government but anything done by the government is going to be inefficient

um because the government is a monopoly like people that don't like corporations should not somehow think that the government is much is much better because the government is a corporation in the limit it is the ultimate corporation with a monopoly on violence so um it's like i think you know the right role for the government is is like to be uh acting a regulatory capacity um and but we should aspire to have the government be be a a limited actor in the economy um so you know you could say like what percentage of economic output should be uh governed you know um and maybe maybe a third or something like that you know once you start getting above 50 government i think that's problematic so um you can look at countries like east eastern west germany north

and south korea and there's you know there was essentially an arbitrary line drawn out to divide the countries and east germany was like kind of 100 government west germany was i don't know probably at least 40 government they're like you know relatively socialist and yet the gdp per capita of that you know of west germany was i think five times higher than east germany so that just shows you just how big of a difference it is if if you have like something that's close to half government versus 100 government uh private sector is probably a factor of 10 more efficient than the government um and this like this is sort of this is also true of just just generally if you have like a monopolistic private corporation then the forcing function for serving the

customer is weak but at least private corporations can go bankrupt and the government cannot go bankrupt unless the people go bankrupt like basically unless it exhausts extracting money from the population so well they're trying their best so yeah it's just you know so just you want to just knowing that the government is as inefficient as any large monopolistic corporation would be and it is the ultimate large monopolistic corporation we should minimize how much the government does um keep it to what is essential um and and not go beyond that yeah i mean i guess you know the conservative concern with that is you start to give them you know you give them a foothold and then they're just going to keep going like you give them a regulatory capacity over

something like agi and then they're just gonna start to you know overreach more and more because that's what we've seen in the past you you know you give them an inch and they take a mile yeah but i i mean does anyone realistically want to delete the faa or the fda probably somebody okay [Music] like we've got an anarchist in the corner i mean usually if you go to the store like you you buy some whatever steak or or some something from the store and ask like it's like poisonous you know and or or you know the like we take for granted that with the food we buy is is uh at the stores it is not going to kill us you know actually you know uh because some company cut costs and decided that you know having e coli and salmonella is you know who cares type of

thing um so so i think you know like like we take ground that the food we buy at the stores is is um is not poisonous um and that uh the drugs we buy like that is extremely unlikely like the drugs will be consistent and they will do what they say they're going to do which except for by the the sort of vitamin supplements industry which can basically is unregulated and so they can say things that are not true and feel so still by it um anyway so it's like i think you know you really want like you can think of like the you want some kind of referee on the field so like you know for um you know like it's like a if you're watching say a football game or something like basketball there's referees okay so would the games be better or worse without a referee

that'd be worse you know um so i think like the role of referee and and games is important um and so the government's role as a referee i think is also important um you just don't have the government be kind of on the field as a player it would be weird if the referees just suddenly started playing ball you know probably not the game would not be as good well and other things that make me think you've never seen a sci-fi movie before you have a neural link so you can like put things in people's brain or something and what's that like what's that like is it what is it cool do you like it well try it you might like it okay yeah with neural link uh neural link is in part um well but in fact the the the sort of the reason i created neural link was um long

term as a risk mitigation for digital super intelligence in that if we are able to effectively achieve symbiosis with digital intelligence then we're sort of the collective human well is better able to steer things in the direction that we'd like or even with benign ai at least go along for the ride so because even with the benign super intelligence if it's so much smarter than us that you know that it really can't even communicate effectively because it's so fast um and and then like talking to us is like turning to a tree you know because if you look if you do a stop motion on like a tree a tree is communicating with its environment just very slowly it looks right now it's looking for water the tree is looking forward to the the ranch is looking for

sun and and the tree has movement it's just very slow um and so um and we're already at this point uh partially a cyborg uh we're de facto uh sort of a sidewalk in in that our phones and computers and applications are a digital extension of ourselves at this point like if somebody leaves their phone behind it's like missing limb syndrome you know like uh the phone is almost like a part of you um and uh but the the issue with that symbiosis is that the the data rate is extremely slow so like how fast can you can you communicate with your phone using uh two thumbs you know 10 bits per second it's very low at the data rate and if if computers can and which they can communicate at you know a billion bits per second or more and and we're communicating with

them at 10 bits per second then that's just an extremely slow communication link and it inhibits symbiosis without sort of tertiary digital layer like so we've got sort of basically like a a primal layer which is like a limbic system basically it's our instincts and a lot of our emotions and it's kind of like the reptile brain the situation and then you've got the cortex which is like the the thinking part of the brain planning and whatnot uh and um so it's like the second layer and then then our phones and computers are our tertiary layer but there's a just a bound with limitation i would we're very slow to communicate so but with uh with a neural link you can increase the communication bandwidth by many orders of magnitude maybe by a thousand or more

so you're talking about output from the brain to other devices yeah primarily yeah not input to the brain uh it would be both ways uh our input is much less constrained than our output because of vision so you know like rough approximation is like our input because of vision is like maybe a million times uh roughly some people are online not going to argue with this but it's the input to input is many orders of magnitude uh higher than output because of vision um you know picture a picture says a thousand words and a video says i don't know hundred thousand words like there's just you know there's um this is why like a meme can communicate so much more than a few words now this is obviously very esoteric and like i'm not sure this will resonate you know

with a lot of people like oh we need to increase the the bandwidth between our cortex and our digital tertiary layer uh by many orders of magnitude in order to not lose symbiosis with digital intelligence so this is quite esoteric but um but that's the long-term existential risk mitigation of neurolink which we may or may not achieve i'm not saying we will achieve this but it's least an attempt to solve that then um along the way neural link uh can solve a lot of uh brain issues like if you got uh and you know if you've got like a a severed spine or something so like one of the first application we're looking to solve is uh implanting neural link in someone who has a quadriplegic tetraplegic um so like they have no they can't move their arms and legs

or maybe not even really uh move most of their face like like maybe blink or something like that you know like stephen hawking or they didn't have to have several spine but like there are various diverse mechanical and other like mechanical breakages or diseases that break the link between your brain and body um and neurolink um can solve that it can certainly we're confident neural link can can enable someone who uh is a tetraplegic um to operate a phone uh or a computer faster than someone who has hands working hands and uh we're showing this for example with the monkey being able to play video games so you can play a bunch of games not just pong pong is currently its favorite game i don't even know monkeys can play pong but yeah in the first place

yeah monkeys can play pong uh with their hand good um yeah they're good monkeys have good reflexes uh so um and that's how that starts off you the monkey we try and then we look at the signals that the monkey's brain is sending and then we read those signals and and then we uh try we transfer the signals directly to the game and uh you know so and then then we take the joystick away and the monkey's just playing basically to let telepathic wow that's wild yeah so um and we recently got uh what we think is a world record in bits per second from uh from any uh neural neural device like we're starting to approach 10 bits per second which is not actually well not that big but it's more than anyone else has achieved in a useful way 10 10 like close to 10 useful

bits per second is where we are and we'll we'll increase that dramatically over time so um so anyway so we're we also want to make sure the device is extremely safe um and and extremely well tested um our standards go far beyond what is required from a regulatory stand standpoint and uh but we're hoping to do our first neurolink into a human uh next year and um and likes to enable someone who um you know has has almost no no movement capability to um operate a phone um as fast or or we think faster over time than someone who has has working hands so i think that that would be quite a significant thing and help a lot of people and and there are many such applications um and i'm increasingly confident that um we can implant a second neurolink device so

one one that accesses the motor cortex and the somatosensory cortex and then a a second one that is uh past where the injury is uh so if you've got a service you know we're basically where where are the neurons still functional um and implant a second uh neural link device uh and uh act have the two devices talk to each other and just transfer the signals across that where wherever it broke yeah because it's like a broken circuit right so you've got a broken circuit you just you basically just do a signal transfer between the two and you don't necessarily even need to to know what all those signals are um you just need to transfer the signals um so just like if you have like a an ethernet cable you don't need to know what's on the ethernet cable for the

cable to work or a wireless ethernet from one wireless ethernet you know wi-fi box to another wireless ethernet wi-fi box you don't need to know what the contents of the signal are in order to transfer the signal so i am confident that that such thing is possible um i'm not saying we will do it i don't know i set unreasonable expectations but i'm i'd say i'm certain that it is possible and we will try to make it happen which would then enable people to walk again and use their hands and i think long term probably restore full body functionality to somebody who um has none did you know that we created an elon musk subscription tier at one point on the b did you ever see that no you didn't know that we did that we were because you were gonna pay a lot of

money or something yeah you had interacted with us a couple of times and so we were like wooing you as a subscriber come subscribe but we created our own tear for you what was the uh fee on the tier i don't remember what it was i think it was like it was the highest payments it was like 99999 dollars a month or something but people were signing up for it people were actually signing up for it though every time i would check i'd be like is it him is it him it was random people who picked it thinking it was a joke and it was actually charging their credit cards we had like we had all these angry people like my wife is gonna kill me if you don't refund this charge so we had to take the elon musk tear down so we took it down i guess before you could before

you could find it but it was there we had it there for you so well thanks i guess that's a compliment i think all right very eloquently put well shall we land the plane here with the 10 question so we uh this is podcast started in kyle's garage we asked every guest the same 10 questions at the end of the interview we never anticipated we would be asking elon musk these 10 questions these are rapid fire so you can answer them as quick as you want yeah or you can go on forever yeah your call uh have you ever met christian rap artist carmen um i i mean the only common musician i'm aware of is um common miranda uh you know she would like dance with like a like a fruit ball on her head yeah yeah um and you never met her no she she died okay a while ago all

right cool look him up are you more of a calvinist or an armenian or an armenian yeah like a predestination [Music] i i guess my my mind would say um determinism and my heart says very well yeah i mean when i grew up i was funnily enough um i went to anglican sunday school uh you know church of england basically um and uh but i was also sent to hebrew preschool although i'm not jewish but nonetheless i was singing having to gillard one day and jesus along the next and you know it's fine if you're a kid you know and and santa claus and like uh you know um so um [Music] yeah yeah that answers the question uh yeah so uh you get to add one book to the bible what is it you guys have never people have never updated these questions to like apply more broadly

nope at any point they're unchangeable yeah they're like the ten commandments at this point um i mean a little bit lower i remember we could have a chapter past revelations like is there a happy ending here like um the revelations part two the happy ending well you know if there's like a really good book you think everyone should read because it would be in the back of the bible everyone should read this book you know okay how many people have actually read the bible fewer than probably say they have but oh yeah i mean do you have a reason i mean at one point i you know when i was a kid i was like i had this existential crisis and i was trying to figure out what's the meaning of life and i was like oh it all means nothing it's all and i and i you know

read like a whole bunch of religious books including the bible and i'm like there's a bunch of things in there they didn't teach you in sunday school uh sonoma gomorrah dark um yikes um you know god sure changes his mind from the old testament to the new testament i'm like whoa that's pretty vengeful in the old testament what was the question you get to pick a book to add to the bible yeah a book uh the attraction to the galaxy oh god yeah it's a great book yeah cigars are pipes um you know i'm not sure i've ever really smoked a pipe um my grandfather did it kind of looks cool but i have smoked cigars and i think like you know for a celebratory occasion like cigars and whiskey that's a pretty good combo you get to hang out with any three people living

or dead who are they it's always hard to think of like three yeah people ethan kyle seth you're hanging you got three right here that's true jeff bezos uh necessarily like uh i think there's a lot of people that would be interesting to talk to but um you know i don't know uh is it living or dead you said yeah living or dead this is this is just you know a stream of consciousness not like a carefully thought out yeah uh answer but it would be like uh i don't like shakespeare ben franklin maybe newton or einstein okay it's a good group bunch of white men yeah i was drinking white clothes cleopatra sounds fun [Laughter] whiskier beer or i guess he went right for the whiskey so nice all right uh what would be the first thing you would do as president well

the presidency in the u.

s is designed to be a weak position a relatively weak position um because you know obviously the founders of the of the country did not want to create a monarch you don't want to avoid like a king situation um so the the sort of the presidency in the u.

s is is meant to be weak weaker than saying a parliamentary system where the majority essentially the speaker that the house would be the the prime minister or president um so you say like what what can you do as the president um in the in the u.

s there's a lot of limitations um unless you have the support of congress you obviously cannot change the laws but i would i probably aspire to reduce the size of government and you know and take a look at the regulatory situation and just make sure there's there's a good garbage collection of regulations so if they're outdated as there are many outdated unnecessary regulations uh but but you know there's a there's a strong forcing function for creating new laws and regulations but a weak forcing function for getting rid of of of bad laws and regulations um and and and i think this is just generally a problem as civilization ages without war where there are new laws and regulations created every year and so there's like more and more constraints on what

you can do but there's there's very little effort put to remove laws and regulations and so this is like hardening of the arteries of civilization and eventually it'll be like oh look elvis travels where you're just tied down by you know thousands of little strings and it's not like any one string is the issue but there's so many strings that you can't get anything done um you know that's one part part big part of why i moved to texas it's just like there's just fewer strings tying you down um so yeah um i i think like the the uh the value of of someone just being a a very competent executive officer is um is under undervalued in a president uh just like how good are you at running things and getting things done um because if you're the president you're

kind of like the ceo of the country um and uh and so are you good at doing things are you effective and pretty productive yeah you said a ceo is a meaningless title would that mean i'm just curious how that like well ceo is not not like a legal title okay um i was just saying that that there are all these titles and cooperations that are kind of made up um and you can see what is actually uh required for a corporation when you fill out the form to create one and so you need a a president a secretary and a treasurer same thing as like if you're performing a chess club or a glee club or something like that same same thing um and and actually technically all three can be the same person so that's what's legally required if you don't have those three things

you cannot function as a corporation uh everything else like a general counsel cfo ceo these are all made up like that they're no legal no no meaningful legal bearing so uh you only need those the president's secretary treasurer um so there's all these like cxo titles which you know just are somewhat like resume inflators um i was just making a point that like people think ceo is a real title but it's not it's not it's not a legally meaningful title you need someone who is defined as the as the president but that's that's um that's it so um for now you have like chief marketing officer chief information officer chief everything officer you know i i sort of think like you should have like this is our svp of sorcery all right question number eight the master

general um oh yeah have you ever punched anyone or have you ever been punched you got any cool punching stories if you don't have an answer for that we have a follow-up it's even worse i don't know about cool punching stories but i um where i grew up was extremely violent um i never i never started a fight except with my brother actually one exception yeah i did i'd be my brother up which i'm either just i don't know if that's how it goes but uh [Music] south africa when i was growing up was just an inherently very violent place i punched the face many times i always got beaten to death once so many times i think if you have not been punched in the face with a fist you don't know what you have no idea what it's like shocking sensation shocking sensation

have you been punished ethan yeah just by like high school kids yeah not right still it's just like your face never touches anything and then suddenly yeah they punch their nose like you can't even see straight um so yeah um it's funny that people think words are they're so sensitive to words it's like man you're even punched in the face words don't mean nothing all right question number nine uh you get to go to one concert any band in history who do you go see anybody i don't know maybe the rolling stones are there you know when they're only peak rolling stones seems like and hey day yeah yeah nitpick all right final question to close our time out here yeah i mean we're here we're you know the babylon b is a christian organization you know and uh we're

a ministry well how come we're doing this show on a sunday night why wasn't your church gathered why aren't you heathens and church exactly so we have to make a church supposed to be a day of rest we did zoom church like god said don't work on sundays okay let's go ahead guys are going to straight down for this one get into the whole jesus that's rest thing okay straight to hell this is true this is true i it's okay so to make this church we have to do we have to make sure just we're wondering if you could do us a quick solid and accept jesus as your lord and savior on the show um personal awards you know it's a quick prayer [Music] i mean let's just say like i agree with the principles that jesus advocated um and that the you know there's some some there's

great wisdom in what in the teachings of of jesus uh and i agree with those teachings um and things like tone the other cheek are very important because as opposed to an eye for an eye an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind so forgiveness you know is important and treating people as you would wish to be treated love that neighbor as myself very important so it's like a 60 70 yes yes as einstein would say [Music] i believe in the god of spinoza [Music] um so um but hey if um you know if if jesus is uh saving people i mean i i wouldn't stand in his way you know like i'll be sure i'll be safe why not sweet we did it yeah i think he just said yes we got it all right we got them to be exciting sounds good the whatever blood and water christ it was kind of

weird you know if you're a kid like you get to give you some weird tasting you know just getting a wine yeah i'm like what the hell is this i'm like isn't this kind of just cut it off when he said yes i'm like is this some like fading metaphor for cannibalism or something i don't get it like what uh what the hell i remember thinking that was just crazy uh when i was a kid um and i like this to like whoa you know i mean even as a metaphor it's kind of odd but you know yeah so it's like should i be doing alcohol to minors i was like we do grape juice okay yes i think it's unusual to even be thinking about that as a kid like as a kid you just go through the motions and then later on that you think wait a minute what does this actually represent what am i

doing when i was a kid i was like like is this actually blood and body what you know i don't i don't know if i want to eat somebody and then i was like why this is i mean i did it anyway i'm like this seems like okay man i don't know if this is just pretty odd you know i remember thinking that even at age five so i was like you know and i was definitely like you know sunday school there like when they were telling me all the stories and i was like asking questions and like and i really were upset that i was asking questions and i was like you know jesus like fed the crowd with like five loaves of bread and three fish and i'm like how big was the crowd and and like where did the fish and bread come from did like from his cloak or something like because

i was like reading books and i was like this is like they'd materialize like am i like i don't know where'd it come from you know like how did would you like take a bite of the bread and it would just the bread would just come back to being a full brand yeah you look away it's kind of a mechanic background they left out the details where did the universe come from um [Music] well yeah i'm not saying i know all the answers here i'm just you know it's just uh and like jesus was obviously very pro-alcohol you know because one of his miracles was turning water into wine yeah and that was like they were having a party they ran out of wine and they're like let's keep this banner going good stuff who can who can solve this problem we're at a white cloth the

friggin store's closed and jesus is like i gotcha okay water now i like party on you know so you know accurate pro partying without all eyes literally it was one of the miracles bible story time you are the it's like you're definitely you're the savior you're scared you kept the party going with lots of wine that's great um so um yeah well thank you i appreciate you coming here talking to us very much very welcome pleasure to meet you in person and uh you know we'll uh we'll continue to throw out the satire that we hope you'll respond to and you know keep that going a little bit oh we didn't ask onion or the bee but i guess that was kind of answered earlier you mentioned earlier yeah yes we already covered that yeah i mean i i think the onion has done

some extremely funny stuff over time um it's just it just seems to have been you know in recent years somewhat infected by the world my virus so that just makes everything less funny yeah that's true workman virus is a world without humor yeah i'm hoping neurolink can solve that move thank you thank you appreciate it thank you thanks so much thanks so much