实际上，我认识伊兰几十年了，所以我觉得我们默契要深得多，我采访过他很多次，所以我想这就是他更自在的原因，但我想谈谈这些事情，看看他是否已经走出了发生在他身上的那些事，我碰巧不抽大麻，所以我没有任何大麻，因此我只是想认真讨论他的产品、他今年经历了什么，以及他将走向何方，我觉得他表现得很好，我认为这是一次很棒的采访，他有些部分很幽默，我觉得他有些部分很难对付，而且有些部分他提供了非常丰富的信息，讲到了 Tesla、SpaceX、无聊公司和埃隆·马斯克的发展路线图将走向何方，最后他表现出了一些悔意，我的意思是，直到最近才

他还发推文说自己会再做一遍，而人们在想，哦，他还没吸取教训吗，也许终于有什么东西被他听进去了，是的，我想我本来会找到我，而且我晚上发很多电子邮件，我们谈过那些事情，但我觉得，我觉得我想让他思考这件事，反思发生了什么，而他显然称，你知道，那些股东的事情对股东并不好，而我觉得埃隆·马斯克有意思的地方是，你看，他不是在做一款照片应用，他不是在做什么软件，他做的是困难的东西，他在造汽车，他在造火箭，他在制造各种各样的交通工具，他在造一台巨大的隧道挖掘机，所以这些都是非常实质性的东西，确实非常难做，而我想要

展现他非常有创造力、非常着眼于未来的那一面，同时也谈谈他作为领导者和首席执行官的责任，所以我觉得他烤了这个场合，很高兴他道了歉并表现出悔意，我不知道这种状态会不会持续，我希望会，他过去一年显然筋疲力尽，一直在为 Model 3 工作，它获得了很好的评价，而且从财务角度来看，他们也做得相当不错，他在采访中更加悔过，而且在我们结束之前，我想请你告诉我们在哪里能找到这档播客，但但他在对待记者这件事上更加悔过，不过他似乎仍然对此耿耿于怀，是的，不过我觉得其中一个很引人入胜的部分，是你就沙特阿拉伯向他提问的地方

因为据称沙特人本来会成为他私有化行动的资金提供者，而你问了他一些非常尖锐的问题，问他如何看待那里的领导层、那里的国家，以及从那里流入硅谷的资金，跟我说说吧，嗯，他，你知道，我很难接受很多硅谷人从那些其政府还谋杀了一名记者的人那里拿钱，而且而且而且做得相当明目张胆，所以我，你知道，正流入硅谷的这些钱，是来自沙特阿拉伯的数十亿又数十亿美元，所以，你知道，他们已经公开买入了 Tesla，而且他们可能仍然持有，也可能已经不持有了，他实际上并不知道，但他当时在找钱，只不过对他们而言，就像很多人一样

这并不罕见，而我希望他反思这件事，我希望整个硅谷的领导层都反思这件事，认真思考他们的投资资金来自哪里，所以他确实这么做了，而且非常公允，我喜欢埃隆的一点是，在很多回答中，包括谈到记者时，他道了歉，但没有完全道歉，这里的情况也一样，他说自己不会接受他们的钱，但同时，沙特人民未必应该因为他们领导人的所作所为而受到攻击，所以我喜欢这一点，这很诚实，我觉得他坦诚表达了自己的想法，而且他没有为了取悦别人而给出一个敷衍的答案，所以我有点，我欣赏一个人的这一点，如果他们坦诚的话，而他当时就是如此，你能看到他在某种程度上逐步想明白这件事，而我喜欢，我喜欢

那部分我同意，我同意，是的，回到 Tesla 一路走来有多艰难以及 Model 3 的产能爬坡，Kerry，你问过他，你知道，当你在推进 Model 3 和其他车型时，你怎么看，他说他认为 Tesla 现在做得相当不错，它没有直面死亡，这似乎暗示它曾一度处在悬崖边缘，这是你从他所说的话中得到的印象吗，他说，他说他对这件事几乎有一种宗教般的信念，他就像是在说 Tesla 不能死，它关乎世界的未来、气候变化，而且他对此非常有激情，他认为自己推动了进展，而我同意他的看法，即他把电动汽车的发展推进了20年，而且，你知道，所有的

其他人都是因为他才加入其中的，所以那真的很有意思，你知道，他这么说并不是自大狂，所以我认为他正在做的很多事情，包括太空探索，包括用隧道解决交通问题以及诸如此类的事情，他真的相信他，他，他实际上正在改变世界，尽管硅谷的人都这么说，但我有点认为他确实如此，他处在那个你能够改变世界的地带，不过他也，这整场采访里很有趣的是，我们围绕滑板车的整段交流，你知道，我喜欢它们，我觉得我骑起来棒极了，他说我看起来有失体面，他不想造滑板车，他想造一辆非常酷、但没人想买的钛制皮卡，那真的，那真的很有趣

里面有很多有趣的部分，你

I've known Ilan for decades actually so I think we have a much more of a rapport I've done a lot of interviews with him so I think that's why he's more comfortable but I wanted to talk about these things and to see if he's moved beyond what was happening to him I don't happen to smoke pot so I didn't have any so I just wanted to have a serious discussion about his products what had happened to him this year and where he's going and I thought he did a good job I thought it was a great interview and he was funny parts I think he was obstreperous it parts and it parts he was really informative about where the the roadmap for Tesla and and SpaceX and the boring company and Elon Musk is going and finally he showed some regret I mean it was only up until recently

where he he tweeted that he would do it all over again and people were thinking Oh hasn't he learned his lesson maybe something has finally sunk in yeah I think I was gonna get me and I email quite a bit night we talked about those things but I think I think I wanted him to think about it be reflective about what happened and he obviously calls you know shareholder things that weren't great for shareholders and what's what I think is interesting about Elon Musk is look he's not making a photo app he's he's not making like some software this is hard stuff that he's doing he's doing cars he's doing rockets he's doing all kinds of vehicles he's doing a big giant tunnel digger so this is really substantive stuff that's really difficult to do and I want to

show that part of him which is very inventive and very forward future looking and at the same time talk about his responsibility as a leader and as a CEO and so I think he roasts the occasion it was glad he apologized and showed regrets I don't know if it'll stick I hope it does he was obviously exhausted over the last year working on the the model 3 which got great reviews and also they've done rather well from a financial point it was a more contrite in the interview and and before we leave I want you to tell us where we can find the podcast but but he was more contrite with respect to journalists but he still does seem to have a chip on his shoulder yeah on that but one of the fascinating areas I thought is where you questioned him about Saudi Arabia

because the Saudis were supposedly this is going to be the suppliers of money into his go private effort and you asked him some very pointed questions about how he feels about the leadership there the nation there and the and the money that flows from there into Silicon Valley talk to me well he you know I'm having some trouble with a lot of the Silicon Valley people taking money from people who government and murdered a journalist and and and did so rather blatantly and so I you know this money that's coming into Silicon Valley it's billions and billions of dollars from Saudi Arabia and so you know they had bought into Tesla publicly and they may or may not still own it he didn't know actually but he was looking at money but for them like a lot of people

that's not unusual and I wanted him to reflect on it I want all of Silicon Valley leadership to reflect on it and think really hard about where their investment money is coming from and so he did and he was very fair and what I liked about Elon is in a lot of the answers including with the journalists he apologized but not completely in the same thing here he said he wouldn't take their money but at the same time the Saudi people shouldn't be attacked necessarily for what their leaders did and so I like that it was honest I think he was honest about what he thought and he didn't give a pat answer just to please and so I kind of I appreciate that in a person if they're being honest and so he was you can see him sort of working it through and I like I like

that part of the I agree I agree with it yeah getting back to how hard it's been for Tesla and ramping up the model three Kerry you had asked him that you know how do you look at when you when you're going with the model three and others and he said that he thinks Tesla's doing pretty well right now it's not staring death in the face which seems to imply that at one point it had been on the brink is that the impression that you've got what he said he said he's he's he's almost religious about it he's like Tesla cannot die it the future of the world a climate change and thinks he's very passionate about that he thinks that he has moved forward and I agree with him that the development of electric cars by a factor of twenty years and and you know all the

others are in it because of him and so that's a really interesting you know he's not being an egomaniac saying that and so I think a lot of the things he's doing is including space exploration including tunnels with traffic and things like that he really believes he's he's he's actually changing the world and even though Silicon Valley people say that I kind of think he is in that he's in the zone where you could change the world but he also it was funny throughout this interview the whole thing our whole exchange about scooters you know I love them I think I look fantastic he said I looked undignified he didn't want to make a scooter he wanted to make a pickup truck that's really cool that nobody wants to buy made of titanium it was it was a lot of fun

there was a lot of fun parts in it you