我的第一位嘉宾是那个让电动汽车成为一回事的人，目前正致力于完善可重复使用的火箭、太空旅行，把人脑直接连接到计算机，用电磁高速列车连接城市，Starling卫星系统对乌克兰战争非常重要，然后星期二在交通上，他也经常发推文，埃隆·马斯克，哇。[音乐] 我刚才念的时候，把你一天里做的事情完整顺序都说对了吗？我漏掉了最后那个隧道的事，嗯，你会处理所有这些吗，好多工作，你每天都会做所有这些事情吗？你会在一天之内处理所有这些吗？不，不会，但我的工作日确实、确实很长，嗯，是的，所以我工作很多。我太高兴你来了，因为你知道，我们做的是一档……的节目

我们谈论世界上发生了哪些变化，但我们只是谈论；真正让变化发生的人非常少，你大概就是其中之一，嗯，你知道，我只想说，我只想说，我爱这些观众。[掌声] 嗯，你是个讨人喜欢的人，我是说，谢谢，我是说，他们经常攻击你。他们确实会，是的。[笑声] 而你似乎一笑置之，我觉得这太棒了。我喜欢你有幽默感，因为像你这么重要、能带来改变的人，可能会把你的力量用于邪恶而不是善良。事实是，当然可以，你当然可以。我会的，是的，绝不会把它们用于同等死亡。不，我知道，但、但我之所以知道，是因为你有幽默感，呃，是的，你确实有，是的，你喜欢笑，你喜欢逗人发笑

我笑死我自己，对吧？[掌声] 而不是像扎克伯格那样的人，我甚至不确定他是不是个真正的男孩。是的，嗯，是的，我、我其实很喜欢喜剧，而且，呃，实际上你知道，比如，嗯，很多年前，我其实就坐在这里的观众席中看过你的节目。哦，真的吗？我一直是你节目的长期仰慕者。哦，好吧，谢谢你。我，让我回到你很有创造力这件事上，好吧，但这一直是我的看法，因为我以前主修历史，而当你研究历史时，你会意识到，你知道，有伟人理论，人们会谈论国王、王子、王后和总统，但真正改变世界的是科技领域的人。他们是发牌的人，无论是火、电，好或坏，还是轧棉机、iPhone或

原子弹，那些就是牌，而我们其余的人只是打牌。你同意这种判断吗？我认为，我认为技术是导致文明发生这些巨大阶跃变化的事物。所以很明显，你会看到，比如古腾堡印刷机，嗯，在那之前，呃，对，书籍很难获得，它们非常稀少，即使你有求知欲，你实际上也无能为力，嗯，因为可读的书非常少。所以，呃，而互联网是某种超越、超越虫子价格的东西，我认为，但你知道，它、它就像，当我第一次看到互联网，呃，以普通大众能够使用的方式开始形成时，感觉就像，什么，整个人类正在，呃，形成一个神经系统。所以在此之前

呃，信息传播的方式会是通过渗透，从一个人传给另一个人，或者一个人给另一个人打电话，嗯，但，呃，你确实，对信息的获取非常有限。现在有了互联网，就像拥有了一个神经系统，就像人类的任何一部分都能获取人类几乎所有的信息。嗯，比如你可以在、在亚马逊丛林深处，呃，不管它是一个Starling终端，并且能获取比1980年的总统更多的信息。

对，嗯，你手机上的任何东西，一切都是，是的，好吧，所以、所以你是这些发牌者之一，这些发牌的人，而我感觉有些网络迷因传播得太快，所以我想很多人在你收购Twitter时，都认为这有点偏离常规，比如这怎么，这跟你正在做的其他事情有什么不相符？我从没那么想过，因为我认为你面对的是重大的文明议题和问题，而我和你的看法完全一致。我认为Twitter就是其中之一。我的意思是，你谈过这个，那个觉醒思想病毒。是的。而且用的确实是末日般的措辞。是的，我不，你应该解释一下，为什么你不认为说它正把文明推向自杀之类的话是夸张。首先，什么是行走的矿井病毒，而如果我们不处理这个

其他任何事情都做不成。告诉我你为什么这么想。是的，所以，嗯，我认为我们需要对任何反任人唯贤的事物，以及任何，呃，任何导致压制自由言论的事物保持高度警惕。所以你知道，这些是工作思想病毒另外2个我认为非常危险的方面，呃，它往往是反官僚主义的。你不能、你不能质疑事情，呃，甚至质疑本身都是不好的。所以，呃，你知道，你知道，另一种几乎匿名的说法会是取消文化，而且很明显，人们很多次试图取消你。很多次，是的，我是说，每周。是的，来自左派和右派，两边我都经历过。是的，而且很有意思，人们，你和我都算是在那一小群人里，也许现在是更大的一群了。是的

那些被称为保守派、其实并没有真正改变的人，我不把你看作保守派。确实，是的，比如我、我至少认为自己是温和派，呃，你知道，呃，所以我的意思是，呃，至少，比如我投入了巨量的毕生精力来打造可持续能源，呃，你知道，电动汽车，还有电池和太阳能之类的东西，呃，帮助拯救环境，那并不，那并不是，那并不完全是极右翼。你曾经画过那张图，你曾经画过那张图，你在这里，我对此很有共鸣，而且就像世界已经改变了，对吧？我也有同感。我觉得很多时候，觉醒主义并不是建立在自由主义之上，而是自由主义的反面。我可以举出，是的，没错，很多它属于反面的例子，包括

言论自由，言论自由实际上极其重要，而我们走到今天这一步很离奇，嗯，比如言论自由过去是一种左翼或自由派价值观，然而我们却看到，呃，来自，你知道，加引号的“左翼”的一种实际上想要审查的欲望，嗯，而且，呃，这似乎很疯狂。我的意思是，我认为我们应该对任何破坏《第一修正案》的事情感到极度担忧。《第一修正案》的存在是有原因的，嗯，《第一修正案》是因为人们来自那些不能自由发言的国家，而且，而且在那里，说某些话会让你被投入监狱，他们当时就想，好吧，我们不希望这里也那样。顺便说一句，在世界许多地方，包括一些人们可能认为与美国相对相似的地方

，言论法律都严苛得可怕。英格兰很不一样，我就不点名任何国家了，但我们为什么要保护他们？他们没有第一……在英格兰，证明诽谤非常容易，而在这里几乎……英格兰，嗯，我不想说错话，或者，呃，是的，在那里你更容易被起诉。我的意思是，法国有很多……我想，如果你否认大屠杀，我认为那令人憎恶，但我也认为那应该属于言论自由，对吧，你可能会被投入监狱。好，所以这是我的……我真的再怎么强调都不为过，我们必须，呃，呃，我们必须保护言论自由，而言论自由只有在你不喜欢的人说了你生活中的某些话时才重要，才有意义，因为显然，你喜欢的每一种言论都，呃，是的，那很容易，嗯

所以这，呃，而且审查的问题在于，当然，对于那些主张审查的人，嗯，只要记住，它终有一天会转向你们。[掌声] 所以这个，呃，觉醒思想病毒是怎么开始的？是蝙蝠吗？是一个，对，从实验室泄漏的吗？我的意思是，你对此的判断是什么，因为这是相当近期的事，为什么，它是怎么开始的，为什么？我一直，我一直试图弄清楚它来自哪里。我认为它实际上已经酝酿很长时间了，嗯，因为它，呃，我认为这已经持续一段时间了，嗯，它，它，而且，嗯，学校和大学里正在发生的灌输，其程度我认为远远超出了家长的认识，嗯，而且我只是，我算是很晚才意识到这一点，嗯，我们在高中时拥有的经历，呃

以及大学时的经历，并不是今天的孩子正在经历的，而且已经不是了，我不知道，可能有10年，也可能有20年了。所以，呃，我的父母本身也是问题的一大部分，他们……好吧，我想在某些情况下是家长，但，但我觉得家长通常只是不知道他们的，他们的孩子被告知了什么，或者有哪些东西没有被教，嗯，他们让孩子们以为自己是平等的。我的意思是，对，让我，让我，让我举一个费尔蒙告诉我的例子，呃，你知道，他的女儿们，呃，在大学上学，而且，抱歉，是在湾区上高中，嗯，而且，嗯，他当时问她们，比如，那么你们知道，你知道，美国最初几任总统是谁，呃，她们能说出华盛顿，但是

然后我说，你们对他了解什么？嗯，他是个奴隶主。还有呢？对，完全没有了，对吧。比如，呃，好吧，也许你们应该知道得比这更多，你知道。对，对，而那，那就是世界思想病毒。完全正确，对。所以完全正确，它就像，你知道，呃，你知道，奴隶制显然是一种骇人听闻的制度，但我们对乔治·华盛顿的了解仍然应该不止这些。顺便说一句，第一，这种制度从时间之初起就永远在全世界被每个种族实行，包括有色人种，很抱歉要告诉你这一点。它在《圣经》里很常见。绝对如此。所以《圣经》很喜欢它。真的？是的，里面对这些相当严格，比如，你知道，不要带走别人的奴隶之类的，对吧。但从来没有人说干脆别这么做，他们

没有，他们没有，他们没有，《圣经》中从来没有任何地方说奴隶制是坏的。没有，他们根本不谴责它，他们只是有……所以，所以这，嗯，但 Twitter 的情况不差，对吧？我的意思是，我今天看到塔克·卡尔森……对，最近被解雇了，你刚上过他的节目，而他丢了工作，所以我希望这还不至于……对，对，但是，呃，幸好，呃，死亡天使。没错。我不是脱口秀界的“伤寒玛丽”，呃，他昨天或今天在 Twitter 上的那通长篇激昂讲话，昨天还是什么时候，比每一段有线电视新闻独白还要……之类的，是这样吗？嗯，Twitter 拥有庞大的受众，所以有2.5亿人每天平均花半小时使用 Twitter，所以每天大约有1.2亿到1.3亿用户小时，而且一直在增长。所以，嗯，我们没有

做任何事情，要说明白，我们完全没有做任何特别的事情，我后来才知道他在Twitter上发了些什么，嗯，所以只是Twitter吸引了很多人的注意，呃，而且这些人往往是，呃，那些读、读很多东西，或者、或者对时事感兴趣的人，嗯，而且，嗯，通常都相当有影响力，所以，但大多数发推文的人都是同一批人，对吧，我是说那些真正发推文的人，大多数人只是读推文，对，我觉得那就是，我读到过很多次，在Twitter用户中只占非常非常小的比例，而且似乎，对，听着，这就是我不再发推文的原因，因为你现在可能已经是推城的市长了，对，我正要做一顶写着那个的帽子，我很高兴，而且我喜欢市长喜欢我的

笑话，但我不再这么做的原因是，那群《贱女孩》式的暴民仍然在那里，而这一点没有改变。我知道，比如说，现在太容易被取消了，我甚至不知道什么会惹恼他们，这些孩子太疯了。我感觉自己像蒙着眼睛走在屋顶上，随时都可能掉下去。是啊，那是最无伤大雅的事情，但就像，你知道，我说乔治·华盛顿是一位伟大的总统。哦，你怎么敢。是啊，是啊，没错，有一些流动，但但你要怎么解决这个，在这个市长先生缔造美国的过程中发挥了重要作用，所以，是啊，嗯，好吧，你得说，比如“被取消”是什么意思，你知道，呃，我是说，是的，人们在 Twitter 上攻击你是一回事，但坦率地说，那只会增加互动量，所以我会直接无视它。

好吧，这对你来说很容易，因为他们没法夺走你的工作，或者你的任何主要的 10 份工作，但他们可以夺走我的，而且顺便说一句，他们确实有一次这么做了。是啊，所以仍然是件事，你知道，我当时真的是被取消了。是啊，我是说，节目被取消了。所以你，但好吧，所以你前几天在国会，呃，在国会和查克·舒默谈人工智能。我对此非常感兴趣，因为你多年来一直在谈这个。在别人都没关注时，我一直认为你在这件事上是对的，而且我认为几乎所有事情你都是对的。我是说，让我们生更多孩子，然后在火星上把他们养大，这个我不明白，但好吧。嗯，我只是认为，我们应该警惕文明衰退，而且而且我们的增长率正在暴跌，嗯，大多数地方。是啊，对，而且资源也在暴跌，不。

不，资源不会有问题。听着，我不是在主张自满，但我们确实希望尽快转向可持续能源经济，但但我们并不存在，呃，资源崩溃的危险。可是很多人没有足够的食物或水。我们的水会耗尽，他们正在，他们正在耗尽沙子。地球表面积的 70 是水，嗯，但那不能喝。海水淡化荒谬地首席。那我们为什么不做呢？我们做了，是你有很多空闲时间，这已经做了，有很多海水淡化已经完成。好吧，但水很充足，这不是问题。我想说清楚。好吧，所以但我们来谈谈人工智能，因为，比如说，你你 10 年前就在谈这个，当时其他人都没有，而我一直觉得他是对的。为什么？因为。

我看过太多电影了，电影里发生的一切都会在现实生活中发生，而且，是啊，你知道，如果你造出的东西比你聪明得多，它们为什么不会成为你的统治者？所以你对查克·舒默说了什么，我们又在为此做什么？我知道你想暂停人工智能，因为就在过去 6 个月里，随着 ChatGPT 的出现，而它来自一家由你创办的公司。是的。[笑声] 嗯，好吧，我是说，我的一位朋友对奥卡姆剃刀有一种改编，你知道，你知道，不是最简单的事情最有可能发生，而是，比如，最讽刺的结果最有可能发生。对，对，是的。所以，嗯，关于人工智能，嗯，我只是认为我们应该，呃，我们应该有某种监管监督。所以，呃，你知道，对于任何构成危险的东西。

对公众而言，呃，如果是某种，呃，飞机、呃，汽车、呃，食品和药品之类的东西，我们都有一些监管监督，本质上就像裁判，并确保，呃，公司不会偷工减料。所以，嗯，我认为，既然如果有人认同，呃，人工智能对公众构成潜在风险，那么就应该有某个监管机构监督，呃，公司正在做什么，这样它们就不会偷工减料，并可能做出非常危险的事情。不要做某件事。给我描述一种情景：未来 2、5、10 年里，如果什么都不做会怎样，因为我们非常擅长什么都不做，尤其是当它妨碍利润时，而现在这对公司来说是一个巨大的利润引擎。它们会想要彼此竞争。我是说，有像雷·库兹韦尔这样的人。

他完全不认为这是个问题。呃，实际上，雷·库兹韦尔对人工超级智能的预测，呃，是 2029 年。

他离正确不远，对吧？但他不认为这是个问题，而像你、比尔·盖茨和斯蒂芬·霍金这样的人曾经认为、认为这是个问题。嗯，是啊，这要看情况。有些人想永远活下去，或者活得久得多，他们把人工智能视为唯一途径，或者把数字超级智能视为唯一能够弄清如何让他们永生的东西。我认为库兹韦尔属于这一类。所以他宁愿有 AI 人工通用智能，也不愿没有，呃，因为它能解决长寿问题。所以你，你乐观吗？我以前在你的《滚石》文章中读到，你说除非身处爱情之中，否则你永远不可能幸福。好吧，我想你可以有一半幸福。我是说，这个，我是说，有两件事，我认为如果要。

要达到，要达到完整，要达到，要达到最幸福，如果你在爱情中幸福，而且而且你热爱自己的工作，那么那么我认为你会完全幸福。如果你缺少这两者中的任何一个，如果你拥有这两件事中的一件，你就有一半幸福，你知道，大致如此。我觉得，你很多作品中将所有这些不同事物联系起来的主题就是连接，比如你想连接事物，你知道，你想在超级高铁上连接，你还想把这里连接到火星，甚至在那个游戏中连接 4 个人。什么？呃，四子棋，你知道。[笑声] 这是喜剧节目，对吧？你知道，这对你来说很难，因为当你收购 Twitter 时，你有点像是在做你接手时所做的事，当你创办 Tesla 时，你住在工厂里，对吧？我觉得那就是你的，那就是你的、你的、你的。

模式：你进入这件事，然后就得住在工厂里才能让它运转。如果你已经回到，你搬去了得克萨斯州，然后又因为 Twitter 回到旧金山。我只是，我有一段时间住在 Twitter 的图书馆里。嗯，是的，但我认为现在情况已经相当稳定了。在那一职位之后，它当时正沿着快车道走向破产，所以我不得不采取激烈行动，没有任何选择。我只是说，这对女人来说很难。是啊，比如当那个男人住在工厂里。是的，那可能是，那可能是个障碍，但，是的。不过，嗯，总体来说，你知道，我对 Twitter 的担忧是，它在某种程度上是数字城镇广场，而且，嗯，重要的是，既要有现实，呃，也要有。

对于广泛观点的信任观感，嗯，而且，呃，当时有大量审查正在发生，嗯，而我们通过，呃，Twitter 文件算是揭露了其中很多，包括大量由政府推动的审查，而你知道，这，这，我是说，当时那里发生的事情似乎必然是违反宪法的。不过，嗯，所以，所以，而且我能，因为我就像，我是个 Twitter 用户，我能察觉到，比如这里有些东西不对劲。嗯，所以那，那才是我，呃，担任那个职位的真正原因，并不是因为我觉得这是什么轻松赚钱的办法之类的。这是一个，天啊，当 Twitter 镇的市长、推特镇或随便叫什么，确实，确实，确实就像有很多箭对准你，像是朝你飞过来，当然。

但你知道，不过你似乎应付得还好。我希望你确实如此，因为，是啊，听着，我是说，天才有时候会有点古怪，但你的出发点总是好的。你一直在努力改善这个世界。听着，我可以永远跟你聊下去，但今天不行。我很想和你一起嗨，我知道一个很棒的地方。我无法用言语表达我有多感激你。我知道你有很多选择，也有很多地方可以去。谢谢你，埃隆·马斯克。女士们先生们。好了，回头见。

my first guest is the man who made electric cars a thing and is currently working on perfecting reusable Rockets space travel connecting the human brain directly to computers connecting cities with electromagnetic bullet trains the Starling satellite system that's so important to the war in Ukraine and then on Tuesday on traffic he also tweets a lot Elon Musk wow [Music] what did I get the full order of things that you do in a day there when I was reading there I left out the tunnel thing at the end um do you work on all these a lot of jobs do you do all these things every day do you work on all of them in a single day no no but I do have I do have a long work day um yeah so I work a lot I'm so thrilled you're here because you know we do a show where

we talk about what changes happen in the world and but we just talk there's a very few people who actually make change happen you are one of those people probably um you know I just want to say I just want to say I love this audience [Applause] well you're a likable guy I mean thanks I mean they attack you a lot they do yeah [Laughter] and you seem to laugh it off which I think is fantastic I love it that you have a sense of humor because a guy as important as you who makes changes could use your powers for evil and not good the fact that absolutely you could of course I would yeah never use them for equal deaths no I know but but the way I know that is because you have a sense of humor uh yeah you really do yeah you like laughing you like to be funny

I kill me right [Applause] as opposed to somebody like Zuckerberg who I'm not even sure is a real boy yeah um yeah I I actually love comedy and and uh actually you know like um many years ago actually was in the audience here and watched your show oh really been a long time admirer of your show oh well thank you I let me get back to you being ingenious okay but that has always been my view is that as I was a history major and when you study history what you realize is that you know there's the great man Theory and they talk about Kings and princes and queens and presidents it's really the people in Tech who change the world they're the people who deal the cards at whether it's fire or electricity for good or bad or the cotton gin or the iPhone or the

atom bomb those are the cards and the rest of us just play it would you agree with that assessment I think I think technology is the thing that causes these big step changes in in Civilization so obviously you've got things like say the Gutenberg Press um before which uh right it was very difficult to get books they were very rare even if you had a thirst for knowledge you really couldn't do anything about it um because there were very few books to read so uh and the the internet is something beyond beyond the bug price I think but you know it's it's a like when I first saw the internet uh coming into being in a way that that the general public could use it it felt like the what the the humanity as a whole was uh developing a nervous system so previously

uh the way the information would travel would be by osmosis one person to another or one person calling another um but uh you did the access to information was very limited now with the Internet it's like having a nervous system it's like any part of of humanity has access to almost all the information of humanity hmm like you could be in the in the middle of the Amazon jungle uh whether it's a starling terminal and have access to more information uh than the president did in 1980.

right well anything on your phone everything is yeah okay so so you are one of these dealers these people who deal the cards and I feel some memes too quickly so I think a lot of people thought when you bought Twitter that this is kind of an outlier like how does this what doesn't fit with these other things you're doing I never thought that because I think you're dealing with big civilizational issues and problems and I was right on your page I think Twitter is one of them I mean you have talked about this at woke mind virus yes and really apocalyptic terms yeah I don't you should explain why you don't think it's hyperbole to say things like it's pushing civilization towards suicide first of all what is the walk mine virus and if we don't deal with this

nothing else can get done tell me why you think that yeah so um I think we need to be very cautious about anything that is anti-meritocratic and anything that is uh that that results in the suppression of a free speech so you know those are two other aspects of the work mind virus that I think are very dangerous uh is that it's often anti-mureaucratic you can't you can't question things uh even the questioning is bad so uh you know you know another way to almost Anonymous would we cancel culture and obviously people try to cancel you many times many times yeah I mean every week yeah from left and right I've had it from both sides yeah and it's interesting people you and I are both like in that little group of people maybe it's a bigger group now yeah

who who are called conservative who haven't really changed I don't see you think of you as a conservative definitely yeah like I I at least think of myself as a moderate uh you know uh so I mean uh at least that like I've spent a massive amount of My Life Energy building sustainable energy uh you know electric vehicles and and batteries and solar and stuff uh to help save the environment that's that's not that's not a it's not exactly far right now you drew that diagram you drew that diagram once where you're here I I related to that and like the world has changed right I feel the same way I feel like very often wokeness is it's not building on liberalism it's the opposite of liberalism I can mention yes exactly many examples where it's the op including

Free Speech free speech is actually is extremely important and it's bizarre that we've come to this point where um like free speech used to be a left or liberal value and and yet we see uh from you know in quotes left uh a desire to actually censor um and uh that seems crazy I mean I think we should be extremely concerned about anything that uh undermines the First Amendment there's a reason for the First Amendment um the first amendment is because people came from countries where they could not speak freely and and where and we're saying certain things would get you thrown into prison and they were like well we don't want that here and by the way in many parts of the world including possible that people might think are relatively similar to the United

States the the speech laws are draconian England is quite different I won't name any countries but why are we protecting them they have no first it's very easy to prove libel in England whereas here it's almost England um I wouldn't want to say the wrong thing or uh yes you could be sued easier there I mean there are a lot in in France I think if you deny the Holocaust which I think is abhorrent but I also think it should be part of free speech right you can be thrown into jail okay so this my I I really can't emphasize this enough we must uh uh we must protect free speech and Free Speech only matters it's only relevant when it's someone you don't like saying something in your life because obviously every speech that you like is uh yes that's easy um

so it it's uh and it's the thing about censorship is that sure for those who would Advocate it um just remember at some point that will be turned on you [Applause] so this uh woke mind virus how did it start was it bats was it a yeah escape from a lab I mean what is your assessment of what because it's fairly recent why how did it start and why I was I was trying to figure out where where it's coming from I think it's actually been a long time Brewing um in that it's uh I think it's been going on for a while um it it and um the amount of indoctrination that that's happening in schools and universities is I think far beyond what parents realize um and I only I sort of came to realize this somewhat late um the the experience that we had uh in high school

and college is not the experience that that kids today are having um and and hasn't been for I don't know 10 years maybe 20 years so uh my parents themselves also a big part of the problem they well I I suppose in some cases that parents but but I think like the parents are just generally not aware of what their their kids are being told or what they're not being taught um they're letting the kids think that they're equal I mean yeah let me let me let me give you an example that a Fairmont told me which uh you know his daughters uh go to college and and sorry go to high school in the Bay Area um and um and he he was asking them like well so who are the you know who are the first few presidents of the United States uh that they could name Washington but

and I said what do you know about him well he was a slave owner what else right exactly nothing right like uh okay that's maybe you should know more than that you know yeah yeah that and that that is the world mind virus exactly yeah so exactly it's it's like you know the uh you know slavery is obviously a horrific institution but we should still know more about George Washington than that and by the way one that was practiced all over the world forever since the beginning of time by every race including people of color I'm sorry to tell you that it's huge in the Bible absolutely so the Bible loves it really yes they're quite strict about like you know don't take someone else's slave and that kind of thing right but no one ever says just don't do it they

don't they don't they don't at no point does it say slavery is bad in the Bible no they do not condemn it at all they just have so so it's um but Twitter is not doing bad right I mean I saw today that Tucker Carlson yeah recently fired you were just on his show and he lost his job so I hope this isn't enough yeah yeah but uh luckily uh the angel of death exactly I'm not the Typhoid Mary of uh talk shows uh his rant yesterday or today on Twitter yesterday or something more than every cable news monologue or something like that is that right well Twitter has a tremendous audience so there's 250 million people that spend an average of half an hour a day on Twitter so it's about 120 to 130 million user hours per day and it's been increasing so um the we didn't

do anything to be clear we did nothing special whatsoever I learned about it afterwards that he had posted something on Twitter um so it's just the Twitter has a lot of people's attention uh so and it tends to be the people that are uh that read read a lot or or interested in current events um and um generally are pretty influential so but most of the people who tweet are the same people right I mean the people who actually tweet it's mostly just reading it yeah I feel like that's I've read this many times it's a very very small percentage of the people on Twitter and it seems like yeah see here's why I don't tweet anymore because you may be the mayor of tweak town now yeah I'm getting a cap with that and I'm glad and I like it that the mayor likes my

jokes but the reason I don't do it anymore is because the mob of Mean Girls is still there and that has not changed I know like it's too easy to get canceled and I don't even know what pisses them off they're so nuts these kids I feel like I'm walking on a roof with a blindfold I could fall off anytime yeah that was the most innocuous thing but it's like you know I said George Washington was a great president oh how dare you yeah yeah exactly had some flows but but how do you fix this instrumental in this Mr Mayor creation of the United States so yeah um well you have to say like what does canceled mean you know uh I mean it's yes people attacking on Twitter that's one thing but frankly that's just going to increase engagement so I would just ignore it

well that's easy for you because they can't take your job away or any of your main 10 jobs but they could take mine and they did Once by the way yeah so still Affair you know I was like literally canceled yeah I mean like the Show is canceled so you but okay so you were in Congress uh at Congress the other day talking with Chuck Schumer about AI I'm very interested in this because you've been on this for years I've always thought you were right about this I think you're right about almost everything I mean let's have more babies and raise them on Mars I don't get that but okay well uh I just think we should be cautious about civilizational decline with with and we have plummeting growth rates um most places yeah right and also plummeting resources no

no resources will be fine look I'm not suggesting complacency but we do want to move to a sustainable energy economy as quickly as possible but but we're not in any danger of uh resource collapse but lots of people don't have enough food or water we will run out of water they're running they're running out of sand Earth is 70 Water by surface area um but you can't drink that desalination is absurdly Chief why don't we do it then we do it is you have a lot of free time it is done this there is a lot of desalination done okay but there's plenty of water this is not an issue I want to be clear all right so but let's talk about AI because like you were you were on this tip 10 years ago when nobody else was that and I always thought he's right why because

I've seen too many movies everything that happens in movies that happens in real life and yeah you know if you make things that are way smarter than you why wouldn't they become your overlords so what did you say to Chuck Schumer and what are we doing about this I know you want to pause in AI because in the just in the last six months with chat GPT which came from a company you started yes [Laughter] um well I mean A friend of mine has a sort of modification of Occam's razor you know you know instead of the simplest thing being the most likely that like the most ironic outcome is most likely right right yes so um with respect to AI um I just think we should be uh we should have some sort of regulatory oversight so uh you know for anything that is a danger

to the public uh if it's sort of uh aircraft uh cars uh Food and Drug and whatnot we've got some regulatory oversight like a referee essentially and making sure that uh companies don't cut Corners so um I think that since if one agrees that uh AI is a potential risk to the public then there should be some regulatory body that oversees uh what companies are doing so they don't cut corners and potentially do something very dangerous don't do something lay out a scenario for me in the next two five ten years if nothing is done because we're very good at doing nothing especially when it comes in the way of profit and this is a big profit engine now for companies they're going to want to just compete with each other I mean there are people like Ray Kurzweil

who doesn't think it's a problem at all uh actually Ray kurzweil's prediction for artificial super intelligence uh is 2029.

he's not far wrong right but he doesn't think it's a problem whereas people like you and Bill Gates and Stephen Hawking thought think it's a problem um yeah it depends if some people want to live forever or for a much longer period of time and they see AI as the only way to or digital super intelligence is as the only thing that can figure out how to get them to live forever I think Kurzweil is in that category so he would prefer to have ai artificial general intelligence than than not uh because it can figure out longevity so are you are you optimistic I read in your Rolling Stone article back in the day that you said you can never be happy unless you're in love well you can be half happy I suppose I mean this I mean there's two things I think if to

be to be full to be to be most happy if you're happy in love and and you love your work then then you'll be I think fully happy if you lack either of those two if you have one of those two things be half happy you know roughly I feel like the theme in a lot of your works that connect all these different things is connecting like you want to connect things you know you want to connect on the hyperloop and you want to connect this to Mars and even to connect four people in that game what uh Connect Four you know [Laughter] this is a comedy right you know it's hard for you because when you bought Twitter you're kind of doing what you did when you took over when you started Tesla you lived at the factory right I feel like that's your that's your your your

pattern you get into this thing and then you got to live at the factory to make it work if you've been back in you moved to Texas then you went back up to San Francisco because of Twitter I just I was living in the in the library of Twitter for a while um yes but it's I think things are reasonably stabilized right now it was uh just on the fast track to bankruptcy after that position so I had to take a drastic action there wasn't any choice I'm just saying it's hard for a woman yeah to like when the guy lives at the factory yes that could be that could be a stumbling block but yes but um overall with you know my my concern with Twitter was to that it is somewhat of the digital Town Square and um it's it's important that there be both the reality uh and

perception of of trust uh for a wide range of viewpoints um and uh there was a lot of censorship going on um and we've we sort of uncovered a lot of that with uh the Twitter files including a lot of of government-driven censorship which you know it's it's I mean it seems that that's got to be a constitutional violation of what was going on there but um so so and I can since I'm like I have a Twitter user I could detect that like something's not right here um and so that's that's really why uh I did that position it wasn't because I thought this was an easy way to make money or something like that it was a man this is being mayor Twitter town tweetown or whatever is is is definitely like there's a lot of arrows pointed at you like flying at you of course

but you know but you seem to handle that okay I hope you do because yeah look I mean Geniuses are going to be a little quirky sometimes but your heart is always in the right place you were trying to fix this world and look I could talk to you forever we can't today I'd love to get high with you I know a great place I can't tell you how much I appreciate you I know you have a lot of choices and places you can go thank you Elon Musk ladies and gentlemen all right I'll see you soon