我知道每位州长都对自己的州有一番愿景，而我们有责任制定政策，帮助我们的公民和各州蓬勃发展，所以我邀请埃隆今天加入我们，分享他对于州长们如何不仅能走在趋势前面，还能成为创新型州长的看法。那么现在，请和我一起欢迎埃隆·马斯克。嘿，很高兴见到你。嗯，下午好，欢迎你，埃隆。哦，我正准备摘掉领带，我可以这样做吗？我，我来的时候系着领带，但后来有人告诉我那里有点要系领带，所以这样我们俩都会更舒服。听起来不错。嗯，好的，谢谢，谢谢你们邀请我。感谢你，你今天来到这里。我，你知道，和你在一起时，很难知道该从哪里开始。嗯，我们就从这个开始：是什么驱动着你，什么，什么

东西让你早上醒来时看到一个问题，并想要解决它？呃，我，我认为驱动我的东西是，呃，我希望自己能够思考未来，并且，呃，对此感觉良好。嗯，所以，呃，就是，呃，你知道，我们在尽己所能，呃，让未来尽可能美好。嗯，从可能发生的事情中获得鼓舞。嗯，并期待第二天。嗯，所以那就是，那就是确实、确实驱动我的东西，就是，就是，就是努力弄清楚，呃，我们该如何，我们该如何确保一切都很棒，并且，嗯，而且会一直如此。而，嗯，这就是Tesla和SpaceX背后的根本原则。嗯，就是，嗯，我认为我们加快向可持续能源生产和消费的转型，是，是，是相当重要的

嗯，这是，这是不可避免的，但它早些发生还是晚些发生很重要。嗯，然后SpaceX是为了，嗯，帮助让生命成为多行星物种。嗯，并尽我们所能延续，延续阿波罗的梦想。嗯，而且，嗯，最终为生命成为多行星物种作出贡献。好，我们再多谈谈这个。我想，呃，大家都非常感兴趣，当你说让生命成为多行星物种时，这很令人兴奋。确实令人兴奋。那么你对此有怎样的愿景？你知道，嗯，我认为，你知道，尤其对于，呃，美国人来说，你知道，就想想美国是一个探索者的国家。呃，人们从世界其他地方来到这里，他们，你知道，呃，选择放弃已知，去追求未知。嗯，所以我认为，呃，探索，就像，我认为美国是一个

是人类探索精神的凝练。嗯，而且，呃，所以这就是为什么它如此吸引美国人，你知道。嗯，比如当发生航天飞机灾难时，你就能看到这一点。嗯，7个人去世了，那，那很可怕，但你知道，很多人一直都在去世。嗯，但，但为什么我们如此在意？因为探索的梦想正与那些人一同死去，这就是原因。不，而我也是那些人之一，而且可能和你们许多人一样，清楚记得，嗯，那场，那场悲剧发生时自己在哪里。所以今天这里有30多位州长，而我们非常高兴，呃，你愿意，呃，和我们在一起，而且希望你听到我稍微谈过一点，呃，我的倡议，也就是走在趋势前面。作为州长，你会告诉我们什么

在创新以及为未来制定公共政策方面，我们，我们应该思考什么？嗯，嗯，正确制定，制定规则当然很重要。嗯，而且，嗯，你知道，这有点，呃，就立法和行政行动而言，嗯，你知道，这有点像，嗯，比如你想想职业体育之类的东西，如果你，如果你没有正确制定规则，如果没有，呃，呃，你知道，嗯，如果，如果，如果，如果比赛没有被正确设置，那就不会是一场好比赛。嗯，所以正确制定规，规则真的很重要。嗯，现在，我认为值得指出的是，我认为目前，嗯，在美国，规则仍然比其他任何地方都更好。嗯，嗯，但是，嗯，你知道，非常容易制定出某种规定，而这种规定

会抑制，抑制创新，而人们却没有意识到这一点。嗯，所以就，嗯，监管环境而言，呃，呃，始终必须牢记，监管规定，呃，是不死的。嗯，而且它们，它们，它们永远不会消亡，除非真的有人去消灭它们，然后它们，它们会积累很大的动量。所以很多时候，监管规定可能出于完全正确的理由而制定。嗯，但之后当它们不再合理时，却没有人回过头去废除它们。嗯，你知道，呃，而且早期曾经有一项规定，当时人们担心汽车，因为那是个相当吓人的东西，瞧，它自己就能出问题，你知道，你永远不知道那些东西可能会做什么。嗯，所以当时有这样的规定，在

很多州，我们必须在汽车前面提着一盏灯。嗯，而且必须走在汽车前面大约100步，必须有一个人把灯挂在杆子上，就像，好吧，但你真的应该废除那项规定，而他们也确实废除了，你知道。嗯，真的会很别扭。嗯，所以，嗯，所以就监管规定而言，即使制定得正确，而且在当时，也是正确的，定期回过头去清理那些规定，你知道，始终很重要，以确保它们仍然合理，仍然服务于更大的利益。嗯，我认为，呃，就税收结构而言，什么，什么在经济上受到激励，什么在经济上不受激励，只需确保激励结构是，是正确的。我，我想我在这里只是在说完全符合常识的事情

嗯，但是，嗯，这是经济学101，无论你，无论你激励什么，它都会发生。嗯，所以，如果你激励一件事，那件事往往会比另一件事发生得更多；如果你发送另一件事，那，那件事就会发生。嗯，因此经济体系应该有利于创新。嗯，而且，嗯，这对于，呃，保护，呃，中小型公司尤其重要。嗯，因为，因为这有点像试图在森林里种一棵树，新公司真的很难，很难成长。嗯，当它还只是一株幼苗或小树时，呃，它比一棵巨大的红杉之类的东西需要多得多的保护。所以，呃，在创新方面为小型以及，小型到中型公司提供支持非常重要。嗯，而且，嗯，它们才是那些，那些

比大公司更需要它的公司，而我，我认为此时Tesla几乎已经是一家大公司了，反正算是比较大的公司。嗯，所以我会赞成，你知道，相对而言，支持比Tesla更小的公司。你会如何回应？因为外界确实有一些批评者对激励措施以及那些东西有意见，而你知道，Tesla一直是，而且我可以根据经验来说，呃，在，在超级工厂方面，经济激励措施的，的受益者。当然。你会对那些，那些人说什么？是的，我想，嗯，首先，如你所知，那些激励措施被，嗯，略微夸大了。嗯，就，嗯，超级工厂而言，这是一项，是一项50亿的投资，是让那座工厂运转起来的资本投资。嗯，而我，我其实不知道这个，顺，顺

顺便说一句，我不知道，我不知道这件事，直到我们举行新闻发布会时才真正知道，那个，那个，那个在20年里，V项激励措施合计为1点

3十亿，其实我甚至都不知道这个，呃，但但是但现在他在说，继续吧，实际上我是到新闻发布会上才知道的，我当时想，真的吗，嗯，不，但我的意思是，事情是这样的，他们把20年里加起来的数字拿出来，说得好像内华达州在给我们开一张价值1点

3十亿美元的支票，而我，你知道，我还在等那张支票。一定是寄丢了吗？我不知道。嗯，所以，呃，但你知道，媒体当然就是这样运作的。嗯，所以现在，如果你用1点

3十亿除以20，好吧，那它，它就像，好吧，Tesla平均，嗯，获、获得某种税收，呃，实际上不是，它基本上是销售税和使用税减免，这就是它的实质，嗯，所以T得到的大概是，我们得到的大概是5000万到6000万的销售税和使用税减免，分摊在20年里，嗯，而且，呃，但但这是针对一个资本成本为50亿美元的项目，呃，仅仅是启动就要这么多，然后，嗯，在那段时间里必须创造大约1000亿美元，才、才能获得1点

3十亿的税收优惠，所以，嗯，所以本质上，在那段时间里，它略高于1%，这很好，好吧，但，呃，它不是，嗯，你知道，它并不像，它、它并不是媒体所描述的那样，嗯，但如果，因为如果把它放在恰当的背景下，听起来就会像，好吧，这挺不错，你知道，对于建厂大约有5 5%的帮助，而在接下来的20年里大约有1%的帮助，很酷，这听起来其实相当合理，是的，嗯，而且，嗯，是的，所以那、那、那确实有帮助，但还有很多其他因素，嗯，而且，呃，实际上其他一些州提出的激励方案稍微更大，呃，但我们把这些因素考虑了进去，嗯，我们能多快，呃，呃，让超级工厂投入运营，嗯

与，呃，那一进展相关的风险是什么，嗯，呃，随着时间推移，把电池包和动力总成运到加利福尼亚州的一家整车工厂，总、总物流成本会是多少，嗯，而且，呃，你知道，把所有这些因素综合权衡，嗯，正是这些使得，呃，正是这些，嗯，促使我们作出了支持内华达州的决定，嗯，而、而且与你、你、你的团队合作很棒，我非常积极主动，嗯，而且，嗯，还有很大一部分也只是，比如要确保，你知道，让你感觉在一个州里真的非常受欢迎，你知道，呃，嗯，所以，嗯，这大概就是促使我们为超级工厂作出这个决定的原因，嗯，然后，嗯，然后我们在纽约州还有另一家工厂，生产，呃，太阳能电池板，嗯，实际上它也将会是最大的太阳能

呃，电池板生产商，在北美，当它开，嗯，然后我们预计未来几年可能会在美国再建立至少，呃，2家或3家，呃，超级工厂，嗯，以及，呃，什么，海外2家，嗯，但Tesla的总体目标，它是、是、其实是我们可以采取什么样的一系列行动，来加速可持续能源生产和消费的到来，嗯，而且，嗯，我认为，从某种意义上说，我评估Tesla在历史上所做贡献的方式，是看它、那加速了多少年，你知道，如果我们能让可持续能源加快10年，我会认为那是巨大的成功，希望如此，即使只有5年，那仍然会相当不错，嗯，那、那就是、那就是、那就是

总体上的优化，所以您谈过行星际旅行、可持续能源，也稍微谈过车辆，那么对于能源、自动驾驶汽车和电动汽车，您希望5到10年后会是什么样子？嗯，我认为事情将会，它们将呈指数级增长，所以5年和10年之间有很大的差别。嗯，你知道，我、我的猜测是，呃，是的，可能10年后，美国新生产的车辆中超过一半是电动的。嗯，而中国可能会走在这前面，因为中国一直超级支持电……嗯，我觉得很多人不知道这一点，但比如，我是说，中国的环保政策远远领先于美国，比如他们对可再生

能源的强制要求远超美国。我觉得有时人们有一种印象，认为中国在推动可持续能源方面，呃，要么是在拖延，要么不知怎么落后于美国，但他们、他们是迄今为止地球上最积极的，太疯狂了。我是说，比如事实上，一个中国汽车制造商联盟刚刚致信中国政府，恳求他们放慢这项强制要求，因为，比如，这实在太多了，他们需要生产8%的电动汽车，我想大概是在明年，或者2年后之类的，这个，比如，他们实际上做不到。嗯，所以中国在电动汽车和太阳能方面，嗯，是迄今为止最积极的。嗯，所以，嗯，但人们普遍误以为他们不是。嗯，有一种通过谷歌搜索来弄清这一点的方法，顺便说一

句，这确实相当直接、相当容易，所以在10，在10，对，10年后，伙计，我觉得，对，对，所以我认为所有产量中有一半会是电动汽车。我认为几年后生产的几乎所有汽车都会是自动驾驶的，几乎全部如此，10年后要找到1辆不是自动驾驶的汽车会很罕见。嗯，那将是一次巨大的转变。嗯，不过现在需要记住的是，新车产量仅约为车辆保有量规模的5%，所以想想汽车或卡车能用多久，它们能用15到20年，然后才会最终报废。所以新车产量大致仅为、至多为车队规模的115分之1。因此，即使新车产量，比如说转向，转向电动或自动驾驶，这仍然意味着绝大多数的

道路车辆并不是如此；还要再过，你知道，5到10年，那才会成为多数，车队中的大多数才会变成电动汽车或呃呃自动驾驶汽车。嗯，但如果你把时间推到20年后，绝大多数东西都会是电动的、自动驾驶的，绝大多数都是完全自动驾驶，完全自动驾驶。所以谁都不必触碰方向盘，如果还有方向盘的话；20年后不会有方向盘。嗯，那会像是养马，人们养马，这很酷。嗯，但是，所以，所以拥有普通汽车就会像养马一样，你是这个意思吗？对，对，也会有人拥有，拥有，你知道，非自动驾驶汽车，就像有人养马一样，只是把它用作机动交通工具会很不寻常。是的。好，不，我们来谈谈嗯

能源部分，以及屋顶电池和储能。嗯，对。嗯，所以，呃，我的意思是，问题是，必须认识到，今天地球几乎完全由太阳供能。嗯，意思是，太阳是唯一让我们免于，嗯，处在大约宇宙背景辐射温度的东西，也就是比绝对零度高3°。如果没有太阳，我们会是1个冰冻、黑暗的，呃，冰球。嗯，而且，呃，能量的数量，所以撞击太阳、从太阳到达我们的能量数量是巨大的。它，它超过了，它是地球拥有的所有能量的99%以上。嗯，然后有，有，有我们运行文明所需使用的这些能量，这对我们来说很大，但与从太阳到达我们的能量相比就很小。嗯，所以它，它是

非常容易的，比如实际上并不需要多少。如果，如果你想用太阳能电池板为整个美国供电，嗯，只需要，嗯，内华达州、得克萨斯州、犹他州，随便哪里，呃，1个相当小的角落。你看，你只需要大约100英里乘100英里的太阳能电池板；它是整个美国的一部分。嗯，然后，为了储存那些能量、确保你有全天候，嗯，呃，电力，你需要的电池是1英里乘1英里，1，1平方英里。就这些。嗯，我，我，我展示过这张图，展示过这幅图像，其中，呃，这就是100英里乘100英里看起来的样子；就像是，你，在美国地图上的1个小方块。嗯，然后里面有1个，有1个小像素，那就是你支持它所需的电池组大小，非常小。所以，嗯，你，你谈到过

大约20年后，我们中不会有人——嗯，有些人仍会使用马匹，或者或者会是零，对，但很少见。那么能源这部分会是什么样子？我的意思是，还会有输电线路吗，还会有这种需要吗？会，我认为，能源的使用大致可以分为3个领域，嗯，它们或多或少是相等的，嗯，从宏观层面看，嗯，大约三分之一的能源用于各种交通运输，大约三分之一用于电力，大约三分之一用于供暖。所以，如果你想要有，呃，而在电力生产中，可以说，你知道，取决于你如何计算，大约10%是可再生能源，也许是15%，嗯，呃，就今天而言。所以这意味着会需要规模庞大的太阳能，需要被、需要被

生产，嗯，并接入，才能实现完全可持续，因为完全可持续意味着你要处理交通运输，嗯，不可再生能源发电和供暖，嗯，所以这意味着需要把公用事业规模太阳能和屋顶 SC 太阳能结合起来，再结合，呃，风能、地热、水力发电，可能还要在一段时间内使用一些核能，嗯，以便过渡到一种可持续的，呃，状态，嗯，这实际上意味着，在很大程度上，太阳能要有极其、极其巨大的增长，嗯，而且在，呃，社区中配备屋顶太阳能将会很重要，嗯，因为否则就会需要，呃，建设大量新的输电线路，而人们不喜欢让输电线路穿过社区。我真的不喜欢那样，我

同意，嗯，所以你会希望有一些本地化的能源，呃，生产，嗯，与公用事业规模的生产相结合，也就是屋顶独立式太阳能、公用事业规模太阳能，嗯，还有，呃，那才是、那才是从物理学角度看真正的解决方案，我看不到真正实现它的任何其他方式，嗯，嗯，人们经常谈论聚变之类的，但太阳就是天空中一个巨大的聚变反应堆，而且它确实很可靠，每天都会升起，嗯，所以如果它不升起，我们就有更大的麻烦了。有人让我问你这个问题：我们今天谈到了劳动力，但他们让我问，机器人将来会夺走我们的工作吗，所有人的工作？或者，呃，你认为人工智能会在多大程度上进入这个、这个工作场所？嗯，首先，我认为在人工智能方面，嗯，你知道，我、我有

接触最最前沿的，嗯，AI，嗯，呃，我认为人们应该真正对此感到担忧，嗯，我一直在敲响“朗格尔”，但你知道，直到人们看到比如机器人走上街头杀人，他们才不知道该如何反应，你知道，因为它看起来太虚无缥缈了，嗯，而且，嗯，我认为我们确实应该非常担忧 AI，而且我认为我们应该——AI 是一个少见的例子，我认为我们需要主动监管，而不是被动应对，嗯，因为我认为，等到我们开始被动应对 AI 监管时，就已经太晚了，嗯，通常情况下，监管制度的建立方式是：发生了一大堆坏事，引发公众强烈抗议，这、这，然后经过许多年，才成立一个监管机构来监管那个行业，嗯，而且

会有一大批不喜欢监管机构告诉自己该做什么的公司表示反对，嗯，总之，这要花很久，嗯，这、这在过去一直很糟糕，但并不，嗯，代表一种，呃，你知道，对文明存续的根本性风险。AI 是对人类文明存续的根本性风险，嗯，这一点不同于车祸，呃，飞机失事，嗯，有问题的药品，呃，或劣质食品，它们、它们不是，它们不是，它们、它们当然会伤害社会中的，呃，一部分个人，但不会伤害整个社会，嗯，AI 是人类文明面临的一种根本性生存风险，而我认为人们并没有充分认识到这一点，嗯，你知道，受到监管并不、并不好玩，这并不，你知道，呃，会相当令人厌烦

但是，呃，你知道，在汽车行业，我们知道我们会受到，呃，交通部、EPA 以及其他许多机构的监管，嗯，而且、而且每个、每个国家都有监管机构，你知道，在、在航天领域，呃，我们受到 FAA 的监管，嗯，而且，嗯，但是、但是你知道，如果你问普通人，嘿，你想不想——你想不想取消 FAA，嗯，然后就像，赌一把制造商不会因为，你知道，那个季度利润下降而在飞机上偷工减料，我会说，绝对不行，嗯，嗯，那听起来太糟糕了。所以，嗯，你知道，我认为即使是那些相当极端的自由意志主义自由市场支持者，也会说，是的，我们或许应该让某个人盯着飞机公司，确保他们制造出优质的飞机，嗯，还有优质的汽车

以及诸如此类的东西。所以你知道，我认为监管机构确实、确实扮演着一个角色，嗯，这个角色非常重要，嗯，我当然反对过度监管，呃，但是，天哪，我认为我们最好立刻着手处理 AI 这件事，嗯，而且，呃，所以肯定会出现大量的就业扰动，嗯，因为将会发生的是，机器人做任何事情都会比我们做得更好。我是说、我是把——我的意思是包括我们所有人，你知道，嗯，是啊，不太确定到底该怎么办，嗯，这就像、这就像，这确实是我觉得最可怕的问题，我跟你说，嗯，而且，嗯，是啊，所以我真的认为我们在这里需要政府监管，只是为了——因为这是，你知道，确保公共利益得到维护，因为有些公司正在竞赛，它们在某种程度上不得不竞相打造 AI

否则它们就会，呃，失去竞争力，你知道，就像本质上，如果你的竞争对手正在竞相开发世界 AI，而你没有，他们就会碾压你，所以接着你会想，啊，我们不想被碾压，所以，呃，你知道，我想我们也需要推高它，嗯。这时候就需要监管机构介入并说，嘿，各位，嗯，你们确实都需要，你知道，先停一下，确保这是安全的，然后比如，当、当一切没问题，而且我们、而且监管机构确信继续推进是安全的时候，你们就可以继续，但否则就要放慢速度，嗯，而且、但是长期、但是你在某种程度上需要监管机构对参与其中的所有团队都这样做，你知道，呃，否则股东就会说，比如，嘿，你们为什么不更快地开发 AI，嗯，因为你们的竞争对手正在——好吧，我们最好

做到那个，嗯，不管怎样，所以就像，我的意思是，大概有差不多12%的工作属于运输业，运输将是最早实现完全自动化的事物之一，但当我说一切的时候，就像 Rob us 将能够做所有事情，毫无例外。让我们回到，你今年要推出 Model 3，对吧？呃，有多少订单？那会是什么样子？嗯，是的，那方面进展顺利。我们有，呃，我不知道，更多，我想，如果有人今天订购一辆 Model 3，他们可能要到明年晚些时候才能拿到。嗯，我们实际上才刚刚开始生产，上周制造了第一辆量产车。嗯，而且有一件关于汽车和任何一种新技术的事情没有得到充分认识，那就是做这个有多难

制造要困难得多，制造的难度是制造那辆车、制造出某样东西的第一件的100倍，就像100倍。只用大概50或60个人，我们可以在6个月内制造出几乎任何东西的原型。嗯，现在要制造那样东西，我们需要5,000个人花上，你知道，3年，而这已经被认为非常快了。所以，呃，制造业会呈现这种 S 曲线，一开始慢得令人痛苦，然后它会呈指数增长。嗯，然后，呃，但人们往往会按直线进行推断，所以如果一开始真的很慢，他们就会说，哦，这真的很慢，看看，他们永远只能每周生产5辆车。才不是。呃，会是每周10辆车，然后每周20辆车，然后，你知道，每周40辆车

然后最终每周5,000辆车。嗯，就是增长得疯狂地快。呃，所以我们希望到今年年底能达到，你知道，某个，你知道，像每周5,000辆车的水平。好的，嗯，我想给一些州长提问的机会，或许也会有一些观众提问。嗯，有人告诉我，你愿意这样做。很好。那么，呃，各位州长，有什么问题要问埃隆吗？斯科特州长。好的，非常感谢。嗯，我们佛蒙特州已经与 Tesla 合作，在，呃，在我们家中使用 Powerpack，而且每天$15。呃，你可以租用它15年，它可以作为备用发电设备供电12小时，从我的角度看，这一直非常非常有意思。呃，但我对车辆以及我们将

走向怎样的未来，或者还要到多远的未来才会让汽车本身成为，呃，充电设备，比如车顶、行李厢盖和引擎盖，或者电池是否会变得非常高效，以至于你不需要那些，然后只需充一次电就能用1周或类似的时间，感到好奇。电池储能的未来将走向哪里？是的，我认为未来是，它就是，这张凳子只有3条腿。呃，有电动汽车，有固定式电池组，嗯，还有太阳能。有了这3样东西，你就能拥有一个完全可持续的能源未来。呃，这就是所需的一切。在太阳能方面，就像我说的，呃，它将是屋顶太阳能和公用事业规模太阳能的结合。嗯，两者都需要，因为，你知道

对电力的巨大需求。嗯，然后，呃，你知道，我认为到目前为止一直缺少的一件事，就是拥有看起来美观的屋顶太阳能。嗯，而且不会，呃，你知道，嗯，这就是我们正在开发这种太阳能玻璃屋顶的原因。嗯，我们正在做不同的样式，这样它就会，你知道，符合特定房屋的美学风格，或者，嗯，符合地区风格。嗯，我认为这实际上相当重要。嗯，而且，嗯，传统的平板太阳能板用于平屋顶和商业场所将是，呃，可行的方式。但，是的，而且，而且，而且把太阳能板装在汽车本身上并没有那么，呃，没有那么大帮助，因为汽车实际的表面积并没有，没有很大，而且汽车经常停在室内

嗯，所以汽车是安装太阳能设备效率最低的地方。只是想知道，或许可以采用某种包覆层，这在未来有意义吗？在一栋建筑周围包覆太阳能板制成的包覆层，或者在车辆周围包覆太阳能板，但同时又是车辆本身的组成部分。我，我不这么认为。嗯，我会放弃那个想法。不，只是，呃，把它装在屋顶上肯定要好得多。嗯，而且我，我确实认真考虑过这个问题，我的意思是，非常认真，而且我一直推动我的团队去想，比如，难道没有某种方法能把它装在车上吗？嗯，我的意思是，从技术上讲，如果你有某种像变形金刚一样的东西，它会从行李厢里弹出来，像，像一辆，你知道，像硬顶敞篷车一样，然后就像，像棘轮一样

把太阳能板铺遍汽车的整个表面积，并延伸到，比如说，呃，1个停车位的全部面积。嗯，前提是你处于阳光下，呃，那足以每天产生大约20到30 m的电力，但，呃，那肯定是实现它的昂贵且困难的方式。伯戈州长。所以我想过，也许我们应该。埃隆，谢谢，谢谢你来到这里。呃，凭借你在支付系统方面的背景，呃，你了解，呃，安全在交易中的重要作用。现在你已经，我认为安全是一个巨大的问题，比如网络安全。是的。而且你正在，你正在，你现在制造的车辆是极其复杂的软件系统。我的意思是，这辆车实际上就是一个滚动的软件，就像一台装在轮子上的笔记本电脑。是的。那么，呃，和我们分享

一点，呃，你对网络安全的看法，以及我们如何、如何、如何、如何进行保护。呃，你谈到了保护社会，而当，呃，你拥有一支行驶中的车队，嗯，我，我认为自动驾驶车辆面临的最大风险之一，是有人实现，嗯，针对整个车队的黑客攻击。嗯，你知道，原则上，如果，如果有人能够入侵，比如说，所有自动驾驶的 Tesla，他们可以说，我的意思是，哪怕只是恶作剧，他们也可以说，像 santal 到罗德岛，从美国各地，然后我会说，好吧，那就会是 Tesla 的末日。嗯，而且罗德岛会有很多愤怒的人，这是肯定的。嗯，所以，呃，我们必须绝对确保，呃，对整个车队的攻击基本上不可能实现，而且如果人们在车里，他们拥有，呃，凌驾控制权

可以凌驾于汽车正在做的任何事情之上。所以，如果汽车正在做、做某种古怪的事情，呃，你可以按下一个任何软件都无法凌驾的按钮，这将确保，呃，你，你，你重新获得车辆的控制权。嗯，并且算是切断、切断与服务器的连接。嗯，所以那，呃，那相当根本。嗯，在车内，实际上即使有人获得了汽车的访问权限，车内还有多个子系统也、也、也具有，呃，专门的加密。因此，例如动力总成拥有专门的加密，所以即使你们中的某些人获得了汽车的访问权限，他们也可以获得动力总成或制动系统的访问权限。嗯，而且，嗯，但从 Tesla 的安全角度看，我最、最关切的是确保整个车队遭到入侵或任何

针对特定车辆的入侵能够发生。这，同样的，他们在手机上也有同样的问题。嗯，你知道，我们今天相当，呃，舒适地生活在一个乔治·奥威尔会认为超级疯狂的世界里，这有点疯狂。嗯，比如我们都带着，嗯，一部带有、带有、带有麦克风的手机，它实际上可以在我们毫不知情的情况下随时开启，还有知道我们位置的 GPS，嗯，还有摄像头，嗯，以及，呃，差不多我们所有的个人信息。嗯，我们自愿这样做。嗯，而且，呃，想到事实就是这样，确实有点不可思议。嗯，所以，所以，pH，手机，比如 Apple 和，和，呃，Google，也面临着相同的挑战，要确保手机不可能遭到整个设备群范围的攻击或全系统范围的攻击，嗯，或者，或者针对特定设备的攻击。所以那就是，那是

我们最、我们最关切的问题。嗯，是的，它会成为，它会成为越来越大的问题。比如 Tesla 的，嗯，我不想在这里触霉头，但 Tesla 的，Tesla 与其他汽车公司相比相当擅长软件。嗯，而且，嗯，所以我确实认为，对于其他汽车公司来说，确保安全会是一个，比如，甚至更大的挑战。是的，谢谢。杜加德州长。谢谢州长。马斯克先生，感谢你今天对所有州长发表讲话。你能来到这里是，是我们的荣幸。呃，我有一个问题。呃，我们看到，当汽油价格升至每加仑$35时，人们对混合动力汽车的兴趣大幅跃升，而且，呃，你看到那些车辆变得非常抢手，而后随着汽油价格下降，你又看到这种趋势发生逆转，我想知道

面对那些非常低的价格，呃，你对电动汽车的未来在多大程度上感到担忧？你能谈谈吗？好的，经济因素，嗯，呃，它们、它们、它们算是设定、设定了这条、这条、这条曲线的斜率。嗯，所以在我心中完全没有任何疑问，除了火箭这个讽刺性的例外，所有运输方式都将完全电动化。嗯，一切。嗯，飞机、火车、汽车，好的，很多火车已经是电动的了。嗯，所有转变。嗯，而且，嗯，但问题是这个时间框架是什么，以及经济，呃，激励结构会推动这个时间框架。嗯，归根结底就是这样。嗯，你知道，这里，存在，而巨大的挑战是，化石燃料的成本中存在一个未定价的外部性。呃，所以这个未定价的外部性就是，呃，这个、这个

改变大气和海洋化学成分所造成的、按概率加权的，呃，危害，嗯，它，它既然没有被计入汽油价格，嗯，它就不会，呃，驱动正确的行为，嗯，你知道，这就像，呃，如果扔垃圾完全免费，而且你知道，也没有惩罚，你想扔多少就扔多少，那么树上就会全是垃圾，嗯，所以，嗯，而且我们还监管了许多其他东西，比如硫排放和一氧化二氮排放之类的，这在那方面已经，已经带来了许多益处，嗯，对于CO2，这很棘手，因为可以说化石燃料一方有太多既得利益，嗯，有时我想，我觉得那些人感觉自己有点受到了不公平对待，呃，因为，嗯，你知道，当他们

创办自己的石油和天然气公司时，并不明显会对环境有害，嗯，而且他们非常努力地创建了那些公司，然后他们觉得，好吧，现在他们在道德层面上有点受到攻击，嗯，尽管他们最初并不是出于恶劣的道德立场创办或，或发展壮大那些石油公司的，嗯，而且，而且，而且我们确实无法瞬间转变到可持续的状态，嗯，但那些人也会相当拼命地阻挠这种转变，而这正是我认为在道德上真正错误的地方。先请巴文州长，然后是哈钦森州长，接着我们再请几位，然后是希肯卢珀州长，之后我们会接受一些观众提问。贝文州长。埃，埃隆，谢谢你来到这里，呃，问题的简短版本

那么稍微长一点，简短版本是：鉴于你迄今取得的进展，你是否会因他人对你和你的事业的期望而感到压力？这是简短版本。然后，然后，然后更具体地说，当你只看Tesla，你看到一家估值为540亿美元的公司，呃，而且按照典型的市、市场指标，似乎没有任何合理的理由支撑这一点，你是在说什么，这是否——我只是说我很好奇，先生，我完全是认真地问：你是否曾担心，你的才智、你的求知欲和你的创造力，是那些试图将其商业化的人所无法匹配的？这是否会影响你的思考方式或你所做的决定？呃，嗯，实际上，当期望非常

高时，我发现这相当艰难。嗯，我实际上会尽量压低那些期望，如你所知，尽可能这样做。事实上，我已经多次公开表示，股价高得超出了我们理应得到的水平。嗯，呃，考虑到，你知道，我们今天所处的位置以及过去所处的位置，那肯定是真的。所以股价显然反映了人们对Tesla未来状况的高度乐观。嗯，而使这件事成为，你知道，对我而言相当艰难的情绪负担的是，是，你知道，那些期望有时会失去、失去控制，而且，比如，我讨厌让人失望。嗯，所以我就像是在非常努力地满足那些期望，但那要求相当高。嗯，而且，呃，很多时候，这真的、真的一点也不好玩，我

不得不说，这远没有看上去那么有趣。嗯，呃，所以，是的，嗯，我的意思是，除非为了纳税而不得不卖，否则我从不出售任何股票。嗯，所以，你知道，我公开说过，我不会像是把钱拿走，你知道，我会是最后一个，我要沉下去了，我要和船一起沉下去。所以，呃，我会是最后一个这么做的人，但，嗯，是的，我的意思是，这……我真的不建议任何人创办一家卡片公司，我真的不建议。这不是获得幸福和自由的秘诀。谢谢，邦州长。哈钦森州长。马斯克先生，我是来自阿肯色州的阿萨·哈钦森。感谢你对，呃，探索所作的坦率评论。呃，你知道，我看到，呃，发明精神和探索精神，这实际上是美国的标志。你对NASA及其使命有何评论

我在国会任职时支持NASA，但我总觉得它步履维艰，没有得到所需的美国人民的支持。呃，你，你对NASA及其使命有何评论，又会给我们什么建议？当然。嗯，首先我应该说，我是NASA的超级粉丝。嗯，事实上，我曾经有一段时间的密码是“我爱NASA”。嗯，那真的就是我的密码。嗯，嗯，而且，嗯，你知道，我认为，嗯，N、NASA做了很多好事，却没有因此得到足够的认可。嗯，而且公众，我想，并不太了解这些。嗯，比如很多……你，大多数公众，他们对硬科学并不是真的感兴趣，你知道，这就像不是、不是他们大多数时候会收看关注的东西。嗯，我喜欢硬科学，你知道。呃，但是，呃

嗯，它没那么受欢迎。所以，呃，但在望远镜方面有一些很棒的东西，比如哈勃和詹姆斯·韦布，还有，你知道，火星上的抢劫者们。嗯，还有那个探、你探测外太阳系。嗯，那些都是非常棒的事情。嗯，但要让公众感到兴奋，你就得让人出现在画面里。嗯，如果画面里有人，那就是完全不同的，差了100倍。嗯，而且，呃，你知道，如果要对NASA作出一些批评，那就像是，我……就像是，记住让人出现在画面里很重要，你知道，如果你想获得公众支持。嗯，而且，嗯，但是，比如，如果你跟科学家谈这个，说，比如，这里面的科学在哪里？比如，你没明白。就像，人们给你钱不是因为这个。不是这样的。我的意思是，这是

其中一小部分原因，但，呃，比如那些、那些、那些严肃的科学家，或者像是，人只会让事情变得更昂贵。呃，比如我们为什么要有人？好吧，那么我们为什么要让人出现在任何地方？嗯，有时候科学家就是不、不明白的人。嗯，即使他们像是很聪明的人，但是，比如，你知道。嗯，所以你得有某种东西，能够把……你知道，点、点燃人们的热情，让他们真正感到兴奋。而且，比如，我认为，如果我们有一个在月球建立基地并把人送往火星的严肃目标，嗯，并且说，好吧，这就是……我们要以结果为导向，我们要怎么做到这一点？好吧，我们得改变合同订立的方式。呃，你不能采用这些成本加成合同、成本加成灵魂来源合同，因为

那样一来，激励结构就全乱了。所以，呃，一旦没有任何竞争，好吧，就没有了，紧迫性的St消失了；而一旦你把某件事变成成本加成合同，你就是在对承包商念咒，让其将项目成本最大化，因为他们会从中获得一定比例。所以他们永远不希望那趟油水丰厚的列车停下来，他们想让它……而且，他们会变成成本最大化者。嗯，然后你让优秀的人参与成本最大化，因为你刚刚激励他们这么做，并告诉他们，如果不这么做，他们就会受到惩罚。本质上就是这么回事。所以至关重要的是，我们要把合同结构改为，嗯，竞争性的商业竞标，确保始终有2家、至少2家实体，嗯，它们

竞相为NASA服务。嗯，而且合同应以里程碑为基础，要有，呃，具体的里程碑。PowerPoint演示文稿不算。嗯，比如，任何东西在PowerPoint上都能运行。好吧，你说我有一台传送装置，看，这是我的PowerPoint演示文稿。嗯，所以，呃，以里程碑为基础、竞争性的，呃，商业合同，要有、有竞争者。然后、然后，如果其中一个竞争者不行、不够格，你就得准备好解雇它，并对该合同剩余、剩余的部分重新竞标。顺便说一下，NASA其实已经这么做了，他们在商……在，呃，向空间站进行商业货运，呃，运输时就是这么做的。嗯，在那个案例中，NASA，你知道，NASA其实……我不知道他们是否认为这

会成功还是不会成功，但他们没有预算做其他任何事情，所以他们就像是，好吧，我们要试试这种竞争性的、商业的、以里程碑为基础的合同方式，而它非常成功。嗯，他们把它……给了2家公司，给了SpaceX和一家叫Kler的公司，而SpaceX设法达到、达到了里程碑，Kler没有。于是NASA把合同剩余部分重新给了，呃，Orbital Sciences，但后来Obal Sciences抵达了终点。所以现在NASA有2家供应商，负责，呃，把货物运往空间站。嗯，这是一个很好的局面。空间站商业载人项目也是一样，现在至于竞争过那个项目。嗯，呃，在、在、在商业载人项目中，是Space、SpaceX和波音。嗯，我认为这也是一个很好的局面。所以现在，嗯，比如

我可以告诉你，SpaceX 团队就像是在说，我们肯定会抢在波音之前做到这件事，然后我敢打赌，波音团队会说，我们要抢在 SpaceX 之前做到这件事，嗯，这很好，这是推动事情完成的一个很好的强制机制，我都无法告诉你那种合同结构有多么重要，那完全是天壤之别，嗯，政府中有太多，呃，这种情况，也就是采用某种来源，呃，成本加成合同，嗯，这还是经济学101，无论你激励什么，那件事都会发生，人们不应该感到惊讶，就像，哦，你只是，你知道，说好吧，如果那家公司设法找到某种借口，把合同成本提高到2倍，他们就会得到2倍的利润，因为他们拿的是一定比例，所以他们会

去做，他们完全可以那么做，嗯，而且他们也不会对要求说不，所以政府会提出一套要求，其中90 90%可能非常合理，而其中10%，我会说，会让这个这个这个项目的价格翻倍，但在成本加成合同中，那10%的古怪要求，承包商永远都会答应，你未来或许可以在州一级的政府承包领域发展，是的，让我们请希肯卢珀州长，然后是杜西州长，那么，呃，我想大多数州长都觉得听到这种毫无约束的真话非常耳目一新，但我确实怀疑，每当你公开说股价高得超出了我们有理由相信的程度时，我我猜，你大概会接到一些人的电话

投资者建议你或许不要这么频繁地说这种话，是的，确实如此，嗯，我想回到刚才的话题，只简短说一下，因为我想我我记下了你说的，呃，人工智能是文明面临的根本性生存风险，我理解得够接近吗，在我看来，是的，它是，它是我们作为一个文明所面临的最大风险，也就是人工智能，那么，对于一群领导者，你会提出什么建议，我们应该，我们应该如何应对这样一个范围如此广泛、但显然又如此重要的问题，嗯，我认为，你知道，政府的职责之一是确保公共利益，嗯，并且，呃，确保公众面临的危险得到处理，嗯，所以这就是监管那件事的由来，我认为

首要任务将是努力尽可能多地了解，你知道，理解这些问题的性质，嗯，密切关注正在取得的进展，嗯，以及人工智能取得的非凡，嗯，成就，嗯，我是说，去年，呃，呃，围棋，这是一种相当难以击败的游戏，嗯，人们原以为计算机永远无法战胜它，那个那个那个计算机要么永远无法击败最优秀的人类棋手，要么还要再等20年，嗯，而去年，嗯，呃，alphao，这是由 Deep Mind 完成的，它算是谷歌的一家子公司，嗯，彻底击溃了世界上最优秀的棋手，嗯，而现在，现在它，现在它可以击溃，它可以同时对阵前50名，存疑，所以这种进步速度非常惊人

嗯，而且，嗯，你可以看到越来越多的成果出现，比如机器人技术，呃，你可以看到机器人能从什么都不会开始学习走路，嗯，你知道，在几个小时内，就像比任何生物都快得多，嗯，嗯，但最危险的事情是，呃，而且它是最热的那种需要理解，嗯，那种需要把握的东西，因为它不是一种实体事物，是网络中的某种深度智能，嗯，他说，那么网络中的深度智能能对家园做什么，所以，嗯，它可以发动一场战争，嗯，通过制造，通过制作假新闻、冒充电子邮件账户和伪造新闻稿，以及仅仅通过，你知道，操纵信息，笔比剑更有力量，嗯，所以，呃，我是说，举个例子，我想，我想强调，我并不认为这实际上

发生了。这纯粹是一个假设，我这是在给自己挖坑，嗯，嗯，但你知道，就像当时有第2架马来西亚客机在乌克兰与俄罗斯边境被击落，嗯，而那件事确实以一种极其严重的方式加剧了俄罗斯与欧盟之间的紧张关系。好吧，比如说，假设你有一个 AI，它的目标是让一个股票投资组合的价值最大化，嗯，实现价值最大化的方法之一就是，嗯，做多国防股、做空消费股、发动一场战争，嗯，那么，嗯，它怎么做呢？嗯，你知道，能……马来西亚航空的，嗯，嗯，嗯，R 飞机航线服务器，把它的航线安排经过战区，嗯，然后匿名举报说一架敌机现在正从头顶飞过。我们来请州长……

杜西，然后杜西州长之后，我们将结束州长提问，接着再提2个问题，然后我们快速提问，或者提1个观众问题，然后就结束。我们的时间快不够了。杜西州长。谢谢，埃隆，我非常喜欢你今天的发言。作为一个在任内花了很多时间试图减少和取消法规的人，嗯，你建议在我们确切了解 AI 究竟是什么之前就引入监管，这让我感到意外。你知道，我听人举过这样一个例子，嗯，如果我发明了一种无色、无臭、嗯、无味而且会爆炸的气体，人们会说，好吧，你必须禁止它，那样我们就不会有天然气了。所以，你举了其中一些例子，说明……

AI 可能成为一种生存威胁，但我仍然不明白，作为政策制定者，除了放慢发展之外，我们应该制定什么类型的监管，而政策制定者通常，嗯，并不会赶在企业家或创新者前面。好吧，我认为首要任务是深入了解。目前政府甚至都不了解情况，嗯，我认为正确的办事顺序应该是成立一个监管机构，最初的目标是深入了解，了解，嗯，AI 活动的状况，嗯，嗯，确保掌握情况，嗯，掌握之后，再制定法规以确保公共安全。就这些。嗯，可以肯定的是，从事 AI 的公司，其中大多数不是我的公司，嗯，会大声抗议，说，嘿，嗯，这真的会扼杀创新，诸如此类，它会……

转移到中国。不会的，嗯，而且，嗯，不会，因为，就像，就像波音搬到中国了吗？没有，他们在这里“保龄球”飞机，嗯，嗯，汽车也一样，嗯，所以不是这样，嗯，那种认为如果你建立一个监管制度，公司就会直接搬到，嗯，监管 ecomment 更低的国家的观念，从表面上看就是错误的，因为没有一家公司这么做，除非监管真的过于严苛，但我在这里说的不是这个，只是说，你知道，要确保政府层面了解情况，嗯，我认为一旦了解了情况，人们会极度害怕，而他们也理应如此。好的，1个观众问题。我们请这里第1个举手的人。谢谢，埃隆。Axios 的 Ena Freed。在本届政府执政初期……

你曾经相当……地辩称，参与其中是最好的，待在房间里比不在房间里更好，嗯，后来总统决定退出巴黎协议时，你说那差不多是最后一抽，你准备退出。是什么促使你那么做的？如果你今天仍在和他说话，你会对总统说什么？好吧，我，我觉得这件事值得，嗯，去做，你知道，努力尝试，嗯，你知道，去做什么值得，值得一试。仅仅因为尝试，我就遭到了来自多方的大量侧翼攻击，嗯，有个人投放了广告牌，还，像是，嗯，攻击我，并在《纽约时报》刊登整版广告之类的，嗯，仅仅是，仅仅因为加入了那个委员会，嗯，而且，而且，你知道，在每一次，在每一次会议上，我都在努力提出论点……

嗯，支持可持续发展，嗯，而且，嗯，你知道，有时也会讨论其他问题，比如我们需要确保我们的移民法并非不友善或不合理，嗯，而且，嗯，你知道，我尽了最大努力，我，我认为在少数情况下，我确实取得了一些进展，这给了我，嗯，一些继续下去的鼓励，嗯，但是，但是后来我，我真的认为那个巴黎 ACC 法院，伙计，我，我……如果我在委员会里 st，那我基本上就是在说那件事并不重要，但它极其重要，嗯，因为我认为这个国家需要信守承诺，嗯，而且，你知道，那甚至都不是一项有约束力的协议，所以我们随时可以，比如，放慢它，嗯。关于会出现就业损失的说法，好吧，我们可以在退出协议之前看看是否真的会出现就业损失，而且也许……

不会有就业损失，也许就业还会增加，嗯，但是，是的，那之后我根本不可能再留下。所以，你知道，我尽力了。好的，好的。好吧，各位，请和我一起感谢埃隆今天来到这里。好的，谢谢，谢谢。好吧，这真是一次难得的享受，不是吗？

I know each Governor has a vision for his or her own States and we have a responsibility to enact policies to help our citizens and our states Thrive so I've asked Elon to join us today to share his thoughts on how Governors can not only stay ahead of the curve but become Innovation Governors so with that please join me in welcoming Elon Musk hey good see well good afternoon and welcome Elon oh I was going to take off my tie is that all right if I do that I I came in with a tie but then I was like told there bit a tie so then we'll both be more comfortable sounds good um well thanks thanks having me appreciate your you're being here today I you know it's when I'm with you it's difficult to know where to start um let's start just what drives you what what

is it that when you wake up in the morning do you see a problem and you want to solve it uh I I think the the thing that drives me is that uh I want to be able to think about the future and uh you feel good about that um so uh that uh you know we're doing what we can to uh have the future be be as good as possible um to be inspired by what is likely to happen um and to look forward to the next day um so that's that's what really really drives me is is is trying to figure out uh how do we how do we make sure that things are great and um and going to be so and um that's the underlying principle behind Tesla and SpaceX um is that um I think it's it's it's pretty important that we accelerate the transition to uh sustainable generation and consumption of energy

um it's it's inevitable but it's it matters if we have if it happens sooner or later um and then SpaceX is about um helping make life multiplanetary um and doing what we can to continue the the dream of Apollo um and um ultimately make a contribution to life becoming multiplanetary well let's talk a little more about that I think uh everyone very interested that when you say making life multiplanetary that's exciting it is exciting so what's your vision there you know um I think you know particularly for uh Americans you know like think about America is a nation of explorers uh people came here from other parts of the world that you know uh chose to give up the known in favor of the unknown um so I think uh exploration like I think United States is a

is a distillation of the human Spirit of exploration um and uh so that's why it it appeals to Americans so much you know um you can see this when say there was a shuttle tragedy um and seven people died and that's that's terrible but you know a lot of people die all the time um but but why do we care so much because it was the dream of exploration that was dying along with those people that's why no and I'm one of those and probably like many of you remember exactly where you were um when that that tragedy happened so you have 30 plus Governors here today and we're very excited about uh your willingness uh to be with us and you hopefully heard me talk a little bit about U my initiative which is being ahead of the curve what do you tell us as Governors

what we what should we be thinking about in terms of of innovation and and developing public policy for the future well um it it sure is important to get the the rules right um and um you know it's sort of uh in in terms of legislative and executive actions um you know it's sort of like um you you think of say like professional sports or something if you if you don't have the rules right if there isn't uh uh you know um if if if if the game isn't set up properly it's not going to be a good game um so it's really important to get the ru the rules right um now I think it's it's worth noting that I think still um in the United States the rules are still better than anywhere else um um but um the you know it's it's very easy to put something in place which

is an inhibitor to to innovation without realizing it um so in terms of um the regulatory environment uh uh it's It's always important to bear in mind that that uh regulations uh are Immortal um and they they they never die unless somebody act actually goes and kills them and then they they get a lot of momentum so a lot of times regulations can be put in place for all the right reasons um but then nobody goes back and gets rid of them afterwards when they no longer make sense um you know that uh and there used to be a rule in the early days when people were concerned about automobiles cuz that was a pretty scary thing see a just going wrong by itself you know you never know what those things might do um so there were like rules where you had to in a

lot of States we had to carry a lantern in front of the automobile um and had to be like 100 Paces ahead of the automobile there had to be someone with a lantern on a pole like okay but you should really get rid of that regulation and they did you know um really be awkward um so um so just regulations is even if done correctly and for and being right at the time it's always important to go back and and scrub those you know periodically to make sure they're still sensible and they're still serving the greater good um I think uh in terms of tax structure what what is what is economically incented and what is what is not economically incented just make sure that the incentive structure is is correct I I think I'm saying just totally Common Sense things here

um but um it's economics 101 whatever you whatever you incent will happen um so the if you incent one thing that thing will tend to happen more than the other thing if you send another thing that that thing will happen um and so the the economics should favor Innovation um and um and this is particularly important to uh protect uh small to mediumsized companies um because because it's sort of like trying to grow a tree in a forest like it's real hard for a new company to to grow um when it's just a Seedling or a sapling uh it needs a lot more protection um than if it's a giant Redwood or something like that so uh very important to uh give support to small and and small to mediumsized companies on the Innovation front um and um they're the ones that that

needed more than the big companies and I I think this point Tesla is almost big company biggish company anyway um so I'd favor you know supporting uh smaller companies in Tesla relatively speaking what would your response be because there are critics out there with regard to incentives and that and you know Tesla has been and I can speak from experience uh the the beneficiary of of incentives economic incentives when with regard to the to the gigafactory sure what would you tell those those people yeah I think well first of all as you know the those incentives were um a little overstated um the um in the case of the gigafactory it's a it's A5 billion investment capital investment to get that factory going um and I I didn't actually know this by the by

way I didn't I didn't know this until we did the press conference actually that that that over 20 years the V incentives added up to 1.

3 billion actually didn't even know this uh but but but it's now he's telling go ahead literally I learned it at the press conference I'm like really um no but I mean it's the the thing is that they they took what added up over 20 years and made it sound like Nevada was writing us a $1.

3 billion check and I'm you know I'm still waiting for that check must did it get lost in the mail I don't know um so uh but you know this is the way the press works of course um so if now if you divide 1.

3 billion by 20 okay then it's it it's like okay Tesla's on average um re receives a sort of a a tax well doesn't it's it's basically sales and use tax abatement is is what it amounts to um so T gets like on the order we get on the order of 50 to 60 million of sales and use tax abatement divided over 20 years um and uh but but this is for something which has a $5 billion Capital cost uh just get going and then um would have to generate about hundred billion doll over that period of time to to achieve a $1.

3 billion uh tax benefit so um so essentially it's it's a little over 1% over that period of time and that's great okay but uh it's not um you know it's not like it's it's not the way it was characterized in the Press um but if because if it's put in the proper context it sounds like okay well that's neat you know it's about five 5% helpful on setting up the factory and about 1% helpful over the next 20 years cool that actually sounds pretty reasonable yeah um and um yeah so so that that that was that was helpful but there are a lot of other factors as well um and uh we actually had slightly bigger incentive packages from from some other states that were offered uh but we factored in um how quickly could we uh uh get the gigafactory into operation um

what were the risks associated with uh that progress um uh what would the over what would be the logistics costs over time of transferring battery packs and power trins to a a vehicle Factory in California um and uh you know and all of those factors weighed together um is what made uh is what um led us to make the decision in favor of Nevada um and and working with with with your team was great I was very forward leaning um and um and like a big part was also just like making you know sure you feel really welcome you know uh within within a state um so um that's sort of what would L us to make the decision for the gigafactory um and then um then we have another Factory in in in New York doing uh solar panels um also actually it's will be the biggest solar

uh panel producer in North America when it's St um and then we expect to establish probably at least uh two or three more uh gigafactories in the US in the next several years um as well as uh what a couple overseas um but the overall objective of Tesla it's is is really what what set of actions can we take to accelerate the Advent of sustainable production and consumption of energy um and um I think the the the sort of the way the way I would assess the historic good of Tesla is in terms of of how what that how many years of acceleration was it you know and if we can accelerate sustainable energy by 10 years I would consider that to be a great success hope even if it was only 5 years that would still be pretty good um that that's the that's the that's

the overarching optimization so you you've talked about interplanetary travel and sustainable energy and the vehicles a little bit what what would you want things to look like and five to 10 years associated with with energy and with autonomous vehicles electric vehicles well I think things are going to be they're going to grow exponentially so there's a big difference between five and 10 years um you know my my guess is uh yeah probably in 10 years more than a half of uh new vehicle um production is Electric in the United States um and China's probably going to be ahead of that because China's been super pro e um I don't think a lot of people know this but like I mean China's environmental policies are way ahead of the US like their mandate for renewable

energy far exceeds the US I think this sometimes people are under the impression that China is uh either dragging their feet or or somehow behind the US in terms of um sustainable energy promotion but they're they're by far the most aggressive on Earth it's crazy I mean like in fact the a coalition of Chinese car manufacturers Just wrote the Chinese governments to beg for them to slow down the Mandate because like it's like too much they they need to make 8% electric vehicles I think like next year or in two years or something this like they can't physically do it um so China is by far the most aggressive on um electric vehicles and solar um so um but that's a common misperception that they're not um there one Google search way to figure this out by the

way it's really pretty straight pretty easy so and in 10 in 10 yeah 10 years man I think yeah yeah so H half of all production I think will be be EV I think almost all cars produced will be autonomous in years almost all it will be rare to find one that is not in 10 years um that's going to be a huge transformation um now the thing to bear in mind though is that new vehicle production is only about 5% the size of the vehicle Fleet so you think about how long does a car or truck last and they last 15 to 20 years so before they finally scrap so new vehicle production is only roughly one at most 115th of the the fleet size so even when new vehicle production say switches switches over to electric or to autonomous that still means the vast majority of the

fleet on the roads is not it'll take another you know 5 to 10 years before that becomes majority the majority of the fleet becomes EV or uh uh autonomous um but if you were to say go out 20 years overwhelmingly things are electric autonomous overwhelmingly fully autonomous fully autonomous so no one will have to touch the steering wheel if there is one there will not be a steering wheel in 20 years um it will be like having a horse people have horses which is cool um but so so having a regular car will be like having a horse is that what you're saying yeah yeah and there will be people that have that have you know non-autonomous cars like people have horses it's just would be unusual to use that as a motor transport yes all right no let's talk about um

the energy piece and rooftop cell and storage um yeah um so the uh I mean question it's important to appreciate that the Earth is almost entirely solar powered today um in the sense that the sun is the only thing that keeps us from um being at roughly the temperature of cosmic background radiation which is 3° above absolute zero if it wasn't for a sun we would be a frozen dark uh Ice Bowl um and the uh the amount of so the amount of energy that hits the Sun that reaches us from the Sun is tremendous it's it's over it's the it's 99 % plus of all energy that that Earth has um then there's there's there's this energy we need to use to run civilization which to us is big but compared to the amount of energy that reaches us from the Sun is Tiny um so it it's

very easy like it actually doesn't take much if if you wanted to power the entire United States with solar panels um it would take um a a fairly small corner of Nevada Texas Utah anywhere uh look you it's you only need about 100 miles by 100 miles of solar panels it's part of the entire United States um and then the the batteries you need to store that energy to make sure you have 24/7 um uh Power is one mile by one mile one one square mile that's that's it um I I I showed the graph the image of this where uh this is what 100 miles by 100 miles looks like it was like you a little square on the US map um and then one there's a little pixel inside there and that's the size of the battery pack that you need to support that real tiny so well you you talked

about 20 years from now none of us well some people will still be using horses or or be zero yeah but rare so what will the the energy piece look like I mean what will there be transmission lines will there be a need yeah I think the so there use of energy can is roughly divided into three areas um and they're more or less equal um at at a high level um there's about a third of energy is used for transportation of various kinds about a third is used uh for electricity about a third is used for heating so if you want to have uh and of the electricity production call it you know something on the order of 10% depending upon how you count it is renewable maybe 15% um uh today so that means that there's a massive amount of solar that would need be need to

be produced um and connected in order to to be fully sustainable because fully sustainable means you're tackling transport um non-renewable electricity generation and heating um so that that means that will need to be a combination of utility scale solar and rooftop SC solar combined with uh wind geothermal uh Hydro probably some some nuclear for a while um in order to transition to a sustainable uh situation um which means really for the most part massive massive growth in solar um and it's it's going to be important to have rooftop solar in uh neighborhoods um because otherwise you going there'll need to be uh massive new transmission lines built and people do not like having transmission lines go through the neighborhood I really don't like that I

agree um so you you want to have some localized energy uh production um combined with utility so rooftop solo utility solar um and uh that that's that's really going to be the solution from a physics standpoint that I can't see any other way to really do it um um people talk a lot about fusion and all that but the sun is a giant Fusion reactor in the sky and it's really reliable comes up every day um so if it doesn't we got bigger problems somebody asked me to ask you this we talked about Workforce today but they asked me are robots going to take our jobs everybody's jobs in the future or H how how much do you see Artificial Intelligence coming into the the workplace um well first of all I think on the artificial intelligence front um you know I I have

exposure to the very very most Cutting Edge um AI um uh and I think people should be really concerned about it um I keep sounding the longell but you know until people see like robots going down the street killing people like they don't know how to react you know because it seems so ethereal um and um I think we should be really concerned about Ai and I think we should this is AI is a rare case where I think we need to be proactive in regulation instead of reactive um because I think by the time we are reactive in AI regulation it's too late um and nor normally the way regulations are set up is that a whole bunch of bad things happen there's a public outcry the the and then after many years a regulatory agency is set up to regulate that industry um and

there's a bunch of opposition from companies who don't like being told what to do by Regulators um anyway it takes forever um that that in the past has been bad but not um something which represented a uh you know a fundamental risk to the existence of civilization AI is a fundamental risk to the existence of human civilization um in a way that car accidents uh airplane crashes um faulty drugs uh or bad food were were not they were not they they were harmful to to uh a set of individuals within Society of course but they were not harmful to society as a whole um AI is a fundamental existential risk for human civilization and I don't think people fully appreciate that um you know it's not it's not fun being regulated it's not you know uh be pretty irksome

but uh you know in the car business we know we get regulated uh by Department of Transport by EPA and a bunch of others um and and there regulatory agencies in every every country you know in the in space uh we get regulated by FAA um and um but but you know if you ask the average person hey you want to do you want to get rid of the FAA um and just like take a take a chance on manufacturers not cutting corners on the aircraft because you know profits were down that quarter I was like hell no um um that sounds terrible so um you know I think even people who are pretty extremely like libertarian free market they be like yeah we should probably have somebody keeping an eye on the aircraft companies making sure they build a good aircraft um and good cars

and that kind of thing so you know I think there's there's a role for Regulators um that's very important um and I'm against overregulation for sure uh but man we I think we've better get on that with AI Pronto um and uh so there'll certainly be a lot of job disruption um because what's going to happen is robots will be able to do everything better than us I'm in I'm including I mean all of us you know um yeah not sure exactly what to do about this um it's like the it's like this is really like the scariest problem to me I'll tell you um and um yeah so I really think we need government regulation here just to because this is you know ensuring the public good is served because you got companies that are racing that they kind of have to race to build AI

or they're going to be uh made uncompetitive you know like essentially if your competitor is racing Dev World Ai and you don't they will crush you so then you're like ah we don't want to be crushed so uh you know I guess we need to Bull it too um that's where you need The Regulators to come in and say hey guys um you all need to really you know just pause and make sure this is safe and like when when it's cool and we're and regulator convinced that it's safe to proceeded then you can go but otherwise slow down um and but long but you kind of need The Regulators to do that for for all the teams in the game you know uh otherwise the shareholders will be saying like hey why aren't you developing AI faster um because your competitor is like okay we better

do that um anyway so it's like I mean there's like something like 12% of jobs are transport transport will be one of the first things to go fully autonomous but when I say everything like the Rob us will be able to do everything bar bar nothing let's move back to you're rolling out the model 3 this year right uh and how many orders what what is that going to look like um yeah it's going well on that front um we got uh I don't know more I think like if somebody orders a model 3 today they'd only get it probably late next year um we just actually just started production made the first production unit last week um and uh the thing that is is not well appreciated about um something about about cars and any kind of new technology is how hard it is to do the

manufacturing is vastly harder to do the manufacturing by a factor of a hundred like a hundred than to to make the to make that car to make one of something W with with maybe 50 or 60 people we could make a prototype of practically anything in 6 months um now to manufacture that thing we need 5,000 people to spend you know 3 years and that's considered really fast so uh manufacturing will does this kind of S curve where it's excruciatingly slow at first and then it it grows exponentially um and then uh but people tend to extrapolate on a straight line so if it's real slow at first they say oh this is real slow look at that they're only going to make five cars a week forever like NOP uh there'll be 10 cars a week then 20 cars a week then you know 40 cars

a week then 5,000 cars a week eventually um just grows Crazy Fast uh so we're hoping to get to you know something uh you know like 5,000 cars a week by the end of the year well um I want to give an opportunity for some of the governors to ask questions and perhaps some audience questions um I was told that you'd be willing to to do that great so uh Governors any questions for for Elon governor Scott well thank you very much um we and Vermont have uh partnered with Tesla in uh in terms of a power pack in in our homes and it's for $15 a day uh you can rent this for 15 years and it'll it'll carry power as a back up generation device for 12 hours and it's been really really interesting from my perspective uh but I'm curious about vehicles and and where we're

going in the future or how far in the future do the cars themselves become uh the charging device like the the roof and deck lids and and hood or does or do the batteries get so efficient that you don't need that and then you just power up for a week or something like that where are we going in the future with battery storage yeah I think the future is it's there's just there's three legs to the stool uh there's a electric cars there's a stationary battery pack um and solar power uh with those three things you can have a completely sustainable energy future uh that's all that's all it's needed on the Sol on the solar front like I said uh it's going to be a combination of rooftop solar and utility scale solar um you'll need both because of the you know

enormous demand for electricity um and then uh you know one of the things that's that's been missing I think up till now is having rooftop solar that looks good um and isn't uh you know um that's where we got this the solar glass roof that we're developing um and we're doing it in different styles so that it it you know it matches the Aesthetics of a particular house or um so Regional style um that's I think that's actually pretty important um and um the conventional flat panels solers for for flat roofs and for commercial will be uh the way the way to go um but yeah it's and and and putting solar panels on the on the car itself not that uh not that helpful Because the actual surface area of the car is not not very much and cars are very often indoors

um and so it's the least efficient place to put solaras on the car just wondering about maybe a wrap of some sort is that does that make any sense in the future a a wrap of solar around either a building made of a solar panel or a wrap of a of a vehicle actually being the solar panel but being the the components of the vehicle itself I I don't think so um I'll scrap that idea no it's just uh it's just way better to put her on the roof uh for sure um and I I really thought about this I mean really and I pushed my team about like isn't there some way we could do it on the car um I mean technically if you have like some sort of Transformer like thing which will pop out of the trunk like like a you know like a hard top convertible and just like like ratchet

solar panels over the whole surface area of the car extending like for the entire say uh square footage of a parking space um provided you're in the sun uh that would be enough to generate about 20 to 30 m a day of electricity but uh that is for sure the expensive difficult way to do it Governor bergo so thought about maybe we should Elon thank thanks for being here uh with your background in payment systems uh you understand uh the important role of uh security and transactions now that you've got I think security is a huge concern like cyber security yes and you're in a in in the vehicles you're building now are incredibly complex software systems I mean the car is really a rolling piece of software it's like a laptop on Wheels yes so uh share with

us a little bit about uh your thoughts on cyber security and how you how how how we protect uh you talk about protecting society when uh you got a rolling Fleet of um I I think one of the biggest uh risks for autonomous vehicles is somebody achieving um a fleetwide hack um you know in principle if if somebody was able to hack say all of the autonomous Teslas they could say I mean just as a prank they could say like santal to Rhode Island from across the United States and I'll be like well okay that would be the end of Tesla um and there be a lot of angry people in Rhode Island that's for sure um so uh we got to make super sure that uh that a fleet white hack is basically impossible and that if people are in the car that they have uh override Authority

on whatever the car is doing so if the car is doing doing something wacky uh you can press a button that no amount of software can override that will ensure that the uh you you you gain control of the vehicle um and kind of cut cut the link to the servers um so that's uh that's pretty fundamental um within the car we actually have even if somebody gains access to the car there are multiple subsystems within the car that that that also have uh specialized encryption so the power Trin for example has specialized encryption so even if some of you were gain access to the car they could gain access to the power train or to the braking system um and um but it is my top TP concern from a security standpoint at Tesla is making sure that fleetwide hack or any

vehicle specific hack can occur the the same the they have the same problem with cell phones um you know we it's kind of crazy today that we live quite uh comfortably in in a in a world that George Orwell would have thought is super crazy um like we all carry um a phone with a with with a microphone that could be turned on really at any time without our knowledge with a GPS that knows our position um and a camera um and uh well kind of all of our personal information um we do this um willingly um and uh it's kind of wild to think that that's the case um so so pH the the phone like apple and and uh Google kind of have the same challenge of making sure that cannot be a fleetwide hack or a systemwide hack of phones um or or a specific hack so that that's

our top our top concern um yeah become it's going to become a bigger and bigger concern like Tesla's um I don't want to Temp fate here but Tesla's Tesla is pretty good at software compared to the other car companies um and um so I do think it's going to be a bit like an even bigger challenge for for the other car companies to ensure security yeah thank you Governor Dugard thank you Governor Mr musk thank you for speaking to all the governors today it's it's an honor to have you here uh one question I had uh we saw when gasoline prices went to $35 a gallon there was a big jump in interest in hybrid vehicles and uh you saw those Vehicles become very much in demand and then as gasoline prices have fallen you've seen a reversal of that and I'm wondering to

what extent uh you have a concern about the future of electric vehicles in the face of those very low prices can you speak to that well the economics um uh they they they kind of set set the slope of the the the curve um so there's no question in my mind whatsoever that all transport with the ironic exception of rockets will go fully electric um everything um Planes Trains automobiles well a lot of trains are already electric um all shifts um and um but it's question of what that time frame is and the economic uh incent structure drives that time frame um that's really what it amounts to um you know this there the and the Big Challenge is that there's an unpriced externality in the cost of fossil fuels uh so the unpriced externality is the uh the the

probability weighted uh harm of changing the chemical constituency of the uh atmosphere and oceans um it's it's since it is not captured in the price of gasoline um it does not uh Drive the right behavior um you know it would be like uh if tossing out garbage was just free and you know there was no penal you just do as much as you want then like trees be full of garbage um so um and we regulated a lot of other things like sulfur emissions and nitrous oxide emissions and that kind of thing it's done done a lot of good on that front um with CO2 it's tough because there's so many vested interest on the sort of fossil fuel side um and sometimes I think I feel like those guys feel like kind of hard done by uh cuz um you know it wasn't obvious like when they

were creating their oil and gas companies that it would be bad for the environment um and they worked really hard to create those companies and then they feel like well now they're being kind of attacked on moral grounds um when they didn't originally start those oil companies or or build them up on on bad moral grounds um and and and it is true that we cannot instantaneously change to a sustainable situation um but then those guys will also fight pretty hard to slow down the change and that's really where I think is morally wrong go to Governor Bavon and then Governor Hutchinson then we'll take a couple then Governor hickin Looper and then we'll take some audience questions Governor bevon El Elon thank you for being here uh short version of the question

then slightly longer the short version is do you ever feel pressure by others expectations of you and your endeavors in light of the progress you've made thus far is the short version and and and more specifically when you look just at Tesla alone and you look at a company with a54 billion valuation uh and seemingly by typical Mar Market metrics no justifiable reason for that what are you saying does I'm just saying I'm curious sir I'm just in all seriousness do you feel a a concern ever that your intellect in your intellectual curiosity and your Ingenuity cannot be matched by those that are trying to commercialize it does that ever affect how you think or decisions that you make uh well it it is actually I find it quite uh tough um when there are very

high expectations um I try to actually Tamp down those expectations as you know to be possible in fact I've gone a record several times as saying that the stock price is higher than we have any right to deserve um uh and that's for sure true based on you know where we are today and have been in the past so the stock price obviously reflects a lot of optimism about where Tesla will be in the future um and now the the thing that makes that um you know quite a difficult emotional hardship for me uh is is that you know those expectations sometimes get out of out of control and like I hate disappointing people um and so I'm like trying real hard to meet those expectations but that pretty tall order um and uh a lot of times it's really not really not fun I

have to say a whole lot less fun than it may seem um uh so yeah um I mean I don't ever sell any stock unless I have to for for taxes um so you know I said publicly I'm not going to like take money off the table you know I'll be last I'm going down I'm going down with the ship so uh I'll be the last to do it but um yeah I mean it's I really wouldn't recommend anyone start a card company I really wouldn't recommend it it's not a recipe for happiness and freedom thanks Governor Bon Governor Hutchinson Mr musk ASA Hutchinson from Arkansas thank you for your Frank observations about uh exploration uh you know I look at uh the spirit of in uh invention and the spirit of exploration which is really the Hallmark of America what is your comment on NASA its Mission

I was in Congress I supported NASA but I always feel like it's floundering does not have the support of the American people that's needed uh What uh what's your comment on NASA its Mission and what advice would you give us sure um well first of all I should say I'm a big fan of NASA um in fact at one point my password was I love NASA um literally that was my password um um and um you know I think the um n NASA does a lot of good things for which PE for which it doesn't get enough credit um and that the public I guess doesn't know that much about um like a lot you most members of the public they're not really into hard science you know it's like not it's not the the thing they're tuning in for most of the time um I love hard science you know uh but uh

um it's not that popular so uh but there's great things in terms of the the telescopes like the Hubble and the James web and the you know the robers on Mars um and the the pro you prob outer solar system um those are like really great things um but to get the public excited you got to get people in the picture um it just it's just a hundred times different if there are people in the picture um and uh you know if there's some criticism of NASA it's like I it's like important to remember people in the picture you know if you want to get the public support um and um but like if you talk to a scientist about that said like where's the science in that like you're not getting it it's like that's not why people giving you money it's not that's I mean it's a

little bit of the reason but uh the like the the the serious scientists or like people just make things more expensive uh like why do we have people like okay well why do we have people at all anywhere um sometimes the scientists are the ones who just don't don't understand um even they're like smart people but like you know um so you got to have something that's going to fire up the you know fire fire people up and get them really excited and like I think if we had a serious goal of having a base on the moon and sending people to Mars um and said okay this is we're going to be outcome oriented how are we going to do this okay we got to changed the way Contracting is done uh you can't do these like Cost Plus contract Cost Plus Soul Source contracts because

then the incentive structure is all messed up so uh as soon as you don't have any competition well okay there's no the St of urgency goes away and as soon as you make something a Cost Plus contract you're incanting the contractor to maximize the costs of the program because they get a percentage so they never want that gravy train to end and they want to make it and a they become cost maximizers um and then you have good people engaged in cost maximization because you just gave them incentive to do that and told them they'll get punished if they don't essentially that's what happens so it's critically important that we change the Contracting structure to be a um competitive commercial bid make sure there there are always two at least two entities um that

that are competing to serve NASA um and that the contracts are mil Stone based with with uh concrete Milestones PowerPoint presentations do not count um like everything works on PowerPoint okay you say I have a teleportation device look here's my PowerPoint presentation um so uh Milestone based competitive uh commercial contracts with with competitors and then and then you got to be prepared to fire one of those competitors if they're not if they're not cutting it and and recompete the rest the remainder of that contract and by the way NASA's actually already done this and they did it with the Comm with the uh commercial cargo uh transportation to the space station um and that was a case where NASA you know that NASA actually I'm not if they thought it

would work or not work but they didn't have the budget to do anything else so they're like okay we're going to try this competitive commercial Milestone based Contracting and it worked great um and they Ed it uh to two companies to to SpaceX and a company called kler and SpaceX managed to meet meet the Milestones kler did not so then they NASA recomed the remainder of the contract to uh orbital Sciences but then obal Sciences got across the finish line so now NASA's got two suppliers for uh taking cargo to the space station um and it's a great situation same thing for commercial crew of the space station now as to competed that um uh in in in the commercial crew case it's space SpaceX and Boeing um and I think that's also a good situation so now um like

I can tell you like the SpaceX team is like we're going to do this before Boeing that's for sure and then like I bet at the Boeing team they're like we're going to do this before SpaceX um that's good it's it's a good forcing function to get things done that that I can't tell you how important that Contracting structure is that is night and day um there's way too much uh in in government which is uh where it's a sou Source uh Cost Plus contract um that that just again economics 101 whatever you incent that will happen and people shouldn't be surprised it's like oh you just you know said Okay if that company manages to find some excuse to double the cost of the contract they're going to get double the profit because they're getting a percentage so they're

going to do they're can do exactly that um and and also they're not going to say no to requirements so the government will come up with some set of requirements 90 90% of them could make a lot of sense and 10% of them I'll coam that double the price of the of of the the project but those 10% of cocki requirements in a Cost Plus contract the contractor will always say yes there could be a future for you in in Government Contracting at the state level yeah let's go to Governor hicken Looper and then Governor Ducey so uh I think like most governors find so refreshing to have the unbridled truth but I do suspect every time you say publicly that the stock price is higher than we have any right to believe I I going to guess you probably get some calls from

investors suggesting that maybe you don't say that so frequently yeah that's true um I wanted to go back and just just briefly because I think I I wrote this down that you said that uh artificial intelligence is the the fundamental existential risk facing civilization do I get that close enough enough in my opin it is it is the biggest risk that we face as a civilization is artificial intelligence and so to a group of leaders what would you advise that we should how should we be addressing something that's that's such a large landscape and yet obviously so important um I think that the you know one of the roles of government is to ensure the public good um and and to uh that dangers to the public are addressed um so that hence the regulatory thing I think

the first order of business would be to try to learn as much as possible you know to understand the nature of the issues to um look closely at the progress that is being made um and the remarkable um achievements of artificial intelligence um I mean last year uh uh go which is a quite a difficult game to beat um that people thought would never be beaten with uh um by by a computer that that that computer would either never beat the best human player or that it was 20 years away um and last year um uh alphao which was done by Deep Mind which is a kind of a Google subsidiary um absolutely crushed the world's best player um and now now that now it can crush it can play the top 50 simultaneously in questionable so just like that pace of progress is remarkable

um and um and there's you can see more and more coming out like the robotics uh you can see robots that can learn to walk from from nothing um you know within hours like way faster than any biological being um um but the the thing that's uh most dangerous is uh and it's the hottest to kind of wrap um kind of get your arms around because it's not a physical thing is kind of a deep intelligence in the network um he said well what home could a deep intelligence in the network do so well I could start a war um by create by doing fake news and spoofing email accounts and fake press releases and just by you know manipulating information the pen is mighter than the sword um so uh I mean as an example I want to be I want to emphasize I do not think this actually

occurred this is purely a hypothetical that I I'm digging my grave here um um but you know that like that there was that second Malaysian airliner that was shot down uh on the uh Ukrainian Russian border um and that that really Amplified tensions between Russia and the EU um in a massive way well like let's say if you had an AI that was uh where the ai's goal was to maximize the value of a portfolio of stocks um one of the ways to maximize value would be to uh go uh long on defense short on consumer start a war um and then uh how could it do that well you know ha can the Malaysian Airlines uh uh uh R aircraft routing server a route it over a war zone um then send an anonymous tip that an enemy uh aircraft is flying overhead right now let's go to Governor

Ducey and then we'll have after Governor Ducey we'll finish our U gubernatorial questions and then two questions then we quick questions or one audience question and then we'll be done we're we're running short on time Governor Ducey thanks Elon I really enjoyed your comments today and as someone who has spent a lot of time in his administration trying to reduce and eliminate regulations uh I was surprised by your suggestion to bring reg regulations before we know exactly what we're dealing with with AI you know and i' I've heard the example used uh if I were to come up with a colorless odorless uh tasteless gas that was explosive people would say well you have to ban that and then we'd have no natural gas so you've given some of these examples of how

a AI can be an existential threat but I still don't understand as policy makers what type of regulations beond slow down which typically um policy makers don't get in in front of entrepreneurs or innovators well I think the first order of business would be to gain Insight right now the government does not even have Insight um and I I think the the right order of business would be to stand up regulatory agency initial goal gain insight into the status of um AI activity um uh make sure the situation is understood um once it is then put regulations in place to ensure Public Safety that's it um and for sure the companies doing AI will most of them not mine uh will squark and say hey uh this is really going to stifle Innovation blah blah blah it's going to

move to China it won't um and uh it won't because like it's like has like has Boeing moved to China nope they bowling aircraft here um uh same on cars um and so it's not it's um the notion that if you establish a regulatory regime that companies will simply move to um countries with with lower regulatory ecomment is is false on the face of it because none of them do and unless it's really overbearing but that's not what I'm talking about here just talking about you know making sure that there is awareness at the government level um I think once there is awareness people will will be extremely afraid as they should be right one audience question we'll take the first hand that came up right here thanks Elon Ena freed with axios early on in this Administration

you had argued pretty viously that it was best to engage and better to be in the room than not be in the room uh then when the president decided to pull out of Paris you said that was kind of the last draw and you were going to drop off what drove you to that and if you were still speaking to him today what would you say to the president well I I thought it was worth uh doing you know trying hard to um you know to do what worth it was worth trying I got a lot of flank um from multiple fronts for even trying um when some guy ran at Billboards and like uh attacking me and like full page ads in the New York Times and whatnot um just for just for being on the panel um and and you know in every in every meeting I was like just trying to make the arguments

um in favor of sustainability um and uh you know sometimes other issues like we need to make sure that our immigration laws are not unkind or unreasonable um and uh you know did my best and I I think in a few cases I did actually make some progress which gave me uh some encouragement to continue um but but then I I just really think that the Paris ACC Court man I I'm I'm if I st on the councils then I'd be essentially saying that that wasn't important but it was super important um because I think the country needs to keep his word um and you know that that's is not even a binding agreement so we could always like slow it down um the argument that there would be job losses well we could see if there are job losses before we exit the agreement and maybe

there won't be job losses maybe there'll be job gains um but yeah there's just no way I could stay on after that so you know did my best all right all right well everybody if you would please join me in thanking Elon for being here today right thank you thank you well that was a treat wasn't it