他们的成就堪称一项关于对立面的研究：从天外到脚踏实地，从高科技到高度人情味。但尽管埃隆和金巴尔·马斯克采用的手段可能不同，他们的目标却相同：推动人类迈向更绿色的天地乃至更远方。他们在南非出生并长大，但埃隆先来到美国，取得了商学和物理学两个本科学位，之后于1995年短暂就读斯坦福大学。当时我的兄弟在加拿大，我说，听着，我觉得我们应该尝试创办一家互联网公司。于是他过来加入了我。埃隆更像是商业智囊，我更像是销售人员。他们的第1家公司 Zip 2 于1999年出售给了康柏。金巴尔是埃隆下一家公司的早期投资者，该公司最终成为PayPal，并出售给eBay，时间是

2002年。在接下来的几年里，金巴尔投身烹饪艺术，最终落脚科罗拉多州。我是 The Kitchen 的创始人之一，那是科罗拉多州博尔德市的一家餐厅，是一家获得全国认可的餐厅。当金巴尔在后来发展成由4家知名餐厅组成的家族中开创本地农场到餐桌的菜肴时，哥哥埃隆正在规划另一条道路。我上大学时，思考过哪些问题最有可能影响世界的未来。2002年，埃隆创办了 SP 太空探索技术公司。SpaceX 延续着美国从美国国土向国际空间站运送补给的任务。我说的是最终把数万人、继而数百万人送往火星，然后再从那里出发

去探索群星。2003年，他创办Tesla Motors，生产纯电动汽车。所以我们曾有一款100,000美元的跑车，也就是Roadster；然后我们推出了起售价约为50,000美元的Model S；而我们的第3代汽车，希望能在大约3或4年后推出，呃，将是一款330,000美元的汽车。全票裁定的获胜者是一辆Model S。2006年，他成为Solar City的董事长，该公司是全国最大的全方位太阳能供应商。与此同时，金巴尔在担任SpaceX和Tesla董事的同时，也找到了另一项事业。肥胖是我们这个时代的流行病，所以我创建了一个名为 The Kitchen Community 的非营利组织，我们所做的是帮助在全国各地的学校中建设学习花园，以对抗儿童肥胖并提高考试成绩。当

你在花园里教孩子时，以100分制计算，可以把成绩提高超过15分。restur 的字面意思是修复者。让我们为社区注入活力并把社区连接起来，让我们和孩子们一起做，让我们用真正的食物来做。凭借各自独特的颠覆式创新形式，马斯克兄弟正在创造未来，同时坚守最初让人类走到今天的家庭、团队合作和服务理念。相当了不起。你、你、你觉得他们的妈妈骄傲吗？那么，带领阿隆和杰夫、阿隆和金巴尔展开对话的是杰夫·斯科尔。正如你、正如大家都知道的，杰夫是这个星球上多个领域中真正具有远见的领袖之一。作为商业创新者，他是eBay第1位全职员工，并领导公司崛起成为一个具有变革性的

交易平台。它让全世界的经济机会实现了民主化。1999年，杰夫创办斯科尔基金会，该基金会迅速成为世界上最大的社会创业基金会；2004年，他基于一个信念创办Participant Media：一个讲得好的故事拥有激发改变的力量。杰夫如今已担任超过39部影片的执行制片人，这些影片获得了5项奥斯卡奖和35项提名。2009年，杰夫创办斯科尔全球威胁基金，重点关注5个若不加遏制便可能危及我们星球未来的问题。他获得的众多奖项包括《时代》杂志全球100位最具影响力人物、《商业周刊》50位最慷慨慈善家以及约翰·W·加德纳领导力奖。我们深感荣幸和高兴，真的非常高兴

欢迎杰夫·斯科尔，以及他与隆和金巴尔·马斯克的对话。非常感谢。保罗，非常感谢你，呃，如此慷慨的介绍。嗯，我叫杰夫·斯科尔，很高兴能与我的好朋友埃隆和基莫·马斯克一起来到这里。呃，实际上，我们将迎来一场，我、我不，我通常是被提问的人，所以这，呃，是我把鞋穿到另一只脚上的机会，而且这也是埃隆和金巴尔第1次一起参加座谈。呃，我第1次见到埃隆是在1995年，当时他在和我的一位同学约会。嗯，没过多久，我、我也和同一个女孩约会了，于是、于是我当时意识到，埃隆总是喜欢抢在前面。呃，我认识金巴尔大约10年了。呃，金巴尔在科罗拉多州经营4家餐厅，而且他在

学习花园方面投入了大量资金，我希望他今晚能详细谈谈。呃，埃隆同时担任Tesla Motors和SpaceX的首席执行官，也是Solar City的董事长。但给你们两人的第1个问题是：你、你们彼此欣赏什么？我先来。嗯，所以我、我，呃，你知道，他知道这件事，但，嗯，做他弟弟的好处就是，就是他想要什么，我也多少能得到，而他想要很多东西。所以，呃，我记得有一次，我们、我们、我们，他想要摩托车。我太小了，我当时，他大概7岁，我6岁左右，而在这个国家，得到摩托车并不常见。但埃隆身上让我非常欣赏的一点是，当他、当他想要某样东西时，他是真的想要，而且他会去把它弄到手；这很令人惊叹

作为他的、作为他的弟弟，看着他这样做，而且、而且他一生都是如此。有意思。嗯，好吧，我认为，嗯，金巴尔，呃，就是我在这个世界上认识的最、最、最、最善良的人之一。嗯，我、我这辈子从未见过金巴尔故意做一件刻薄的事。嗯，所以我非常欣赏这一点。呃，据我了解，你、你们两个人，我是说，企业家很有意思，因为他们常常年纪轻轻就开始，呃，开展某种创业活动。而且，呃，我了解到，你们还在南非时就有过一个、一个某种项目。对，呃，电子游戏厅。对，那个。对，我们有个绝妙主意，要开一家电子游戏厅。嗯，因为我们确实知道哪些游戏受欢迎。对。嗯，而且我们还是电子游戏专家。呃，当时

我们14岁和15岁，而我们不得不停下来的原因是，我们去市政府申请一项规范豁免，而你必须年满18岁才能签字。我们从未告诉父母，而且，呃，我们已经签了租约，游戏机也在运来。然后父母发现后阻止了这件事，这实在令人扫兴，因为它本来会非常成功。对。好吧，呃，我很高兴那没有成为，呃，通往成功的鳍状障碍。嗯，但你们、你们，那、那是你们兄弟第1次一起做事，而，嗯，最终促成了一家叫 Zip 2 的公司。呃，我、我、我想知道你们是否愿意谈谈 Zip 2，它是怎么产生的？呃，想法是什么？整个、整个过程对你们来说是什么样的？呃，当然。嗯，金巴尔，你想、你想先开始吗

，还是我来？好吧，我是说，我会从那次公路旅行开始。那次公路旅行。对，对。好，所以在此1年前，也就是94年，我们带埃隆，当时他在，呃，某家电子游戏公司工作。这里有个主题。什么，我其实是在做，算是2份工作：一份是在一家电子游戏公司，而那家公司具有讽刺意味地叫作 Rocket Science；嗯，然后白天为电动汽车研究超级、超级电容器。所以，呃，我们进行了一次从硅谷到费城的公路旅行，那是在'94年，我们当时都，我比埃隆年轻，但我们同时完成学业，因为我比他聪明得多。嗯，嗯，埃隆其实修了双专业，所以原因在这里。但不管怎样，所以，呃，我们最后那样做了，而，嗯，呃，呃，我们去了，我们开始于

一个医疗网络、医疗数据库，记得吗？对。好吧，中间有很多次迭代，但，嗯，我认为95年时的想法是，互联网将成为某种真正从根本上改变人类的东西。它就像人类获得了一个神经系统。你知道，以前，呃，相对于互联网的运作方式，人们几乎是通过渗透来传递信息。嗯，你知道，如果你想获取大量信息，比如你会去，比如国会图书馆，但，嗯，除非你是一个书在哪里的物理学家，否则你无法获取那些信息。但有了互联网，嗯，你可以身处世界任何地方，只要连接互联网，就能获取全世界的信息。所以它真的就像

人类似乎正变得像一个拥有神经系统的超级有机体，所以我们想参与其中，你知道，构建它的一些组成部分。那是一段有趣的时期，因为这对我们来说太说得通了，但确实有一个人把一本《黄页》扔向我们，他是一位级别很高的高管，嗯，还对我们说，你们真的认为互联网会取代这个吗？对，真的是这样。然后你会看着他们，心想，这家伙完了。对，对。他不明白，人们也不知道互联网是什么。对，包括硅谷的人。对，对。它就像是大学和政府使用的某种东西，没人真正在上面做什么，而且你肯定没法靠它赚钱。对，对。那么你当时知道吗

你们从一开始就发现了什么机会，还是人们只是觉得你们疯了，在追逐某种离奇的梦想？呃，你什么时候意识到 Zip 2 可能会成功？嗯，我是说，我们刚开始时，我觉得我们的抱负确实相当、相当低。嗯，其实就是赚到足够付房租的钱。对，我们、我们、我们让一个 v 给了我们钱，太好了，我们当时觉得一切都搞定了。对，那确实很疯狂。我是说，我们在 95 年刚开始时，最初确实只有一台电脑，嗯，白天它会充当网络服务器，然后晚上我在上面编程。嗯，而且我们睡在办公室里，我们租不起，对，一套公寓。租办公室比租公寓便宜，所以我们就租了办公室，然后

走进办公室，冲淋了YCA，而对我来说最糟糕的部分是吃了3次Jack In The Box。对，天哪，这个，这就像，在帕洛阿尔托过了大约10: p.之后真的很、很难弄到食物。

嗯。

嗯，就像 Jack In The Box，还有其他几个选择，所以我们轮流吃 Jack In The Box 菜单上的东西。我记得有一次，我当时真就在 Jack In The Box，希望你们这些人——不管谁来自那家公司——没在这里，那是那种凌晨 3: 的事情，我拿了一杯奶昔，当时累极了，而奶昔里有个什么东西，我 Lear 就像这样，是的，你的标准就直接降到了什么都没有。是的，所以，所以，呃，一直到 95 年底，我们基本上就是睡在办公室，在 YMCA Ching，然后，嗯，大约在 95 年底，net skate 上市了，然后不管某个人知不知道互联网是什么，他们都知道你可以在互联网上赚钱

以某种方式，嗯，哪怕只是依据博傻理论。所以，呃，当我们在 96 年初去和 VCH 资本家谈时，他们对我们正在做的事情有了大得多的，嗯，兴趣。嗯，事实上，那一轮融资大概一周左右就完成了，太疯狂了。是的，我们从睡在办公室变成了人们扔——我是说，再说一次，在座各位都是金融圈的人，所以你们每天都看到这些数字，但对我们来说，听到“我们会给你们 300 万美元”，是的，听起来极其——我们觉得他们疯了，他们为什么要这么做？当时简直就像，这些人疯了，他们显然没有意识到我们还睡在办公室。事实上，当他们，当他们确实资助我们时，他们，他们发现我们是非法移民。嗯，我是说，是的，我们当时是，我会说那是一个很大的区域

是的，是的，我们当时是。我当时——我们是非法移民，我们睡在办公室，我们没有车。我们有一辆车，它的车轮老是掉下来。嗯，实际上，是的，那个，那个，那个车轮确实从车上掉下来了。是的，正是如此。嗯，而且，而且那些风险资本实际上给我们买了车。是的，嗯，他们给了我们 4 万美元，是 4 万美元让我们去买车，这在当时比我们此前见过的任何一笔钱都多。是的，而且，而且我买了一辆，呃，我花了 3.5 万买了一辆 167 系列，嗯，Jager e type，嗯，它开不了，但是，但是他得到了自己想要的。是的，它停在路边时看起来真的很棒。嗯，他，他，他拿到车了，他当时正从经销商那里开回家，然后它，然后它抛锚了，他实际上不得不坐着一辆平板卡车来到房子这里。对，它没有，而且它没有

从那之后改善。我的意思是，那真的很 BR，本该把卡车留下。是的，它，它，它在某些方面让我想起，呃，你知道，eBay 在 1998 年上市，而我们当时也有点那种拼拼凑凑的初创心态。而且，呃，我第一次在电视上看到埃隆，是，呃，你提了一辆，嗯，McLaren 超级跑车的时候。没错。嗯，所以，是的，嗯，对，所以，所以，所以大概在睡办公室地板和 McLaren 之间，呃，发生了一些事情。是的，嗯，是的，所以在 sub2，我们基本上创造了，呃，帮助媒体公司上线的软件。所以我们，嗯，那算是一种互联网出版软件，包括黄页、白页，呃，地图和路线之类的东西。而且，嗯，我们帮助一些大型媒体公司上线，或者至少让它们线上业务的一部分

上线。所以我们的客户和投资者包括，呃，New York Times 公司、night rder、host，以及大多数大型媒体公司。嗯，然后，事实上，那个朝我们扔电话簿的人最后成了投资者。是的，对。然后公司以，呃，略高于 3 亿的价格卖给了 compact。是的，呃，大约在 1999 年，90 年代末。是的，没错，那是，呃，是的，我想那笔交易算是在 98 年末谈妥，然后在 999 年初完成。所以，所以，你们后来怎么样了？我的意思是，那时候你们大约 23、24 岁，差不多吧，而你，你们已经从，呃，几乎付不起房租，变成拥有，呃，相当可观的资源。这如何影响了你们此后的道路和所做的事情？我，我喜欢这样看待它

是我像一条被关在笼子里挨打了 4 年的狗，然后他们把我放出来，并听见所有你能吃的丁骨牛排。呃，所以那其实是一次非常奇怪的经历，因为你不会想到——我，我以为自己会用一辈子建设那家公司，然后砰，他们，你知道，给了你很多很多钱和便于携带的袋子，然后你就离开了。这完全像一场梦。那你做了什么？所以我去了纽约。所以我，我，我受够了硅谷。我觉得技术是，是我兄弟的东西，他热爱它，而我，我也喜欢，但，但老实说，对我来说，食物才是我从小就一直热爱的东西。我是家里的厨师，而且讽刺的是，他比我瘦得多，你知道。确实如此。我什么都能吃，尽管我发现随着年龄增长，这

并不会那样奏效。是的。呃，不过不是，所以我去了纽约，呃，然后学了烹饪。我去了那个，呃，你知道，我当时很年轻，而我，我想，你知道，当你有足够的财务资源去做任何想做的事时，你还能做什么？呃，而且我一直想学烹饪，所以我报名进了一所烹饪学校，是纽约市全国最顶尖的学校之一，并获得了这段不可思议的经历，呃，与世界上一些最优秀、最有才华的厨师一起烹饪。而且，嗯，对我个人而言，当时的情况很独特，因为 911 期间我就在纽约，而，而且我刚在 911 之前从烹饪学校毕业，我就住在世界贸易中心旁边，所以我看到了这一切发生。这是我人生中的一件大事。呃，但那个

它给予我的难得机会，呃，是为消防员做饭的机会。所以我在“零号地带”待了 6 周，为消防员做饭，而那时，我有点——我的，我一直热爱食物，但我对社区以及通过食物把，呃，人们彼此连接起来的热情，简直是——我是说，我确实甚至无法描述这段经历有多么不可思议。所以走出那段经历时，我有了一个非常强烈的意愿，要，要开一家餐厅。而且，呃，曾是一家刚以 3 亿卖掉的公司的一员，又投资了当时价值数十亿美元的 PayPal，却去做一个——这是个奇怪的决定，但对我来说，这是正确的决定。所以对你而言，它开启了，呃，一条通往梦想的道路，也许是你以前就有的梦想，还是你只是随机应变地说

这就是我想做的，而，而且你，你现在仍然，呃，不仅经营着你创办的那家餐厅，而且还有更多。呃，是的，嗯，呃，你是指那家非营利组织，还是你指——不，我只是说，就餐厅而言，不止一家。哦，是的，当然。所以，你知道，呃，我，我，嗯，事实证明我其实很擅长烹饪。我并，我并不真的知道自己擅长烹饪，但是，但是当我和——我有 2 个合伙人，呃，Hugo 和 Jen——一起开那家餐厅时，我们原本应该每晚接待 60 人，而它本来只会是我的 SL 项目，因为我仍然参与埃隆的公司 Tesla 和 SpaceX。而且，呃，你知道，如今我们每周接待 10,000 人，你知道，而且它就是，就是不断增长。嗯，呃，埃隆，对你来说，ZIP 2 成了，你把它卖了

它，而且它……还买了那辆迈凯伦。对。嗯，如果我没记错，你把那笔钱的大部分投入了你的下一个，呃，你的下一个项目，呃，x.

com。没错。嗯，所以，呃，是的，大多数……大部分资金都投入了 x.

com，后来更名为 PayPal。嗯，而且，呃，呃，是的，那结果相当不错。结果相当不错。但回过头看，嗯，会不会——因为你把很多鸡蛋都放进了那个篮子里——你会，你会建议创业者像你那样孤注一掷吗？是的，当然，我认为应该。嗯，我认为，我认为，我认为把自己的资本投入自己所做的事情是值得的。我，我不相信那种用别人的钱的做法。嗯，你知道，我觉得如果你不愿意让自己的，嗯，资产承担风险，那你就不该要求别人那样做，那样做。嗯，所以 eBay 出现了，收购了 PayPal。嗯，然后我，我，我记得大概在 2003 年，呃，在帕洛阿尔托的一家咖啡店见到埃隆。这是在 PayPal 那笔，呃，交易已经

结束后，我问埃隆，你接下来想做什么，而你当时说了3件事，对吧，你还记得是什么吗？嗯，是的，不过，是的，呃，我是说，基本上，你知道，就是太空、太阳能和电动汽车。太空、太阳能和电动汽车，是的。2点，是的，嗯，等等，太空、电动汽车，中间那个是什么？呃，是这样，我问他想做什么，而他，嗯，他、他说他想在太阳能领域做些事情，他最终想要，呃，殖民火星，呃，不过要通过，呃，建立火箭业务、一项可持续的业务来实现，还要制造电动汽车。我们来稍微谈谈，呃，谈谈火星。呃，这是从哪里来的？你什么时候有了那个梦想？它是怎么产生的？嗯，这个，嗯，我想，你知道，

我上大学时，我思考过哪些事情会对人类的未来产生最大影响，而我认为有3个领域会产生最大的影响，那就是互联网、可持续能源，其中，呃，太阳能是生产端，而，嗯，电动汽车是消费端，然后，嗯，人类成为一个多重态物种。我认为，我们的未来从根本上会减弱为一种局面：我们是一个太空布里英文明；或者另一种局面：我们被困在地球上，直到最终发生某种灭绝事件。不过，我应该指出，我对地球上的生命相当乐观。我想让人们认为，那样一来，呃，我预计某种迫在眉睫的，呃，灾难，但是，嗯，我、我认为地球文明可能、可能的结果是相当

相当长一段时间内都会很好，嗯，但我仍然认为，我们应该，呃，努力把生命延伸到地球之外，并拥有一个，而要做的事情是在火星上建立一个基地，并最终，并努力尽快让它成为一个能够自给自足的基地。嗯，所以，呃，我并不指望SpaceX会独力完成那种事情，但我认为我们、我们会努力推进太空旅行技术，使其达到这样一个程度：嗯，我们至少能够把一些人送到火星，而这目前是不可能的。嗯，据我记得，呃，接着问一个问题，杰夫，呃，当、当SpaceX起步时，我想前3次火箭发射都没有成功，而、而、而第4次成功了。嗯，如果第4次没有成功，会发生什么？我们就会失败。是的，但是、但是让我们

谈谈其中一次，那些失败非常壮观。所以，我是说，我会和埃尔一起去夸琼岛，而看到正在爆炸的巨型火箭是一个相当惊人的地点。呃，我是 SpaceX 的早期投资者之一，我说，你知道吗，如果我所能做的全部就是看着这些火箭爆炸，那我投入这里的每一分钱也都非常值得。兄弟般的支持确实值得一提，但看着埃隆用那些火箭造出的东西是一件令人惊叹的事，我是说，在荒无人烟的地方靠一根肖绳子，而且真的是在太平洋中央，距离夏威夷 2,000 英里。呃，而，呃，那次经历，我们会乘坐这些、这些，它们叫什么来着，那些直升机叫什么？休斯。你驾驶着休斯飞行时，感觉自己就像直接从、从

《现代启示录》飞往邪恶博士的岛屿，呃，真的令人惊叹，我是说，而且直到今天，每一分钱都是如此，我会这么说，所以，呃，我，我认为那些失败其实是令人难以置信地激动，能参与其中，是的，是的，谢谢你，伊莱，不客气，嗯，我是说，重点，重点是，嗯，这些事业现在似乎势头非常好，而且一切进展顺利，但我，我清楚地记得，曾经有一个时间点，当时它们每一个，呃，都到了各自的临界点，可能走向任何一个方向。我想知道，我想知道你能不能稍微谈谈Tesla的起源。当然，嗯，所以关于，嗯，正如我提到的，我在读物理学本科时就对电动汽车相当感兴趣，而且，嗯，事实上，我最初来到加利福尼亚州是为了

在斯坦福大学攻读应用物理学和材料科学博士学位，从事超级电容器和电动汽车方面的研究，嗯，所以这是我长期以来的兴趣，而且，嗯，互联网让这件事搁置了几年，但后来，在PayPal之后，icid，我想重新回到，嗯，电动汽车领域，并且，嗯，在那个领域促成一些事情，尤其是因为，嗯，通用汽车已经推出了EV1，而，而且我当时想，好吧，其实并不需要一家初创公司来开发电动汽车，因为显然通用汽车会推出EV2和EV3，这是合乎逻辑的顺序，而且，嗯，每一次迭代都会越来越好，嗯，所以那个领域其实不需要一家，一家，一家新公司，嗯，但，但实际发生的情况是

在加利福尼亚州修改法规、不再购买电动汽车之后，呃，通用汽车召回了所有EV1，然后为了确保没人能把它们拿回来，他们在某个停车场里把它们压碎了，嗯，而且，而且事实上，嗯，在它们被压碎的时候，那些曾经拥有EV1、又不希望那些CS被召回的人，实际上举行了烛光守夜活动，就好像基本上有人要被处决一样，嗯，而这就像，这看起来极其疯狂，通用汽车竟然会无视这件事，因为，嗯，你知道，人们为一种产品举行烛光数字活动是相当罕见的，嗯，尤其还是通用汽车的产品，所以，所以如果，如果，如果人们这么做，你真的应该留意，嗯，但，但他们，他们，他们只想把这一切抹掉，而且，呃

所以我想，好吧，那我们必须努力创建一家电动汽车公司，但并不是说在创建这些公司时，我们认为自己会成功，嗯，我认为最有可能的结果是失败，嗯，但，但即使成功概率很低，仍然值得去做。事实上，即使对于SpaceX，我最初开始做的也不是创建一家火箭公司，而是，而是实际上打算做，嗯，一项前往M的小型任务，这纯粹是一项慈善任务，我们会在那里送去一个装有种子和脱水凝胶的小温室，而那个会，嗯，在着陆后让凝胶吸水，然后你会得到一张很酷的照片，红色背景上的绿色植物，而公众往往会对先例和最高级作出反应，所以这会

成为火星上的第一个生命，生命抵达过的最远地方，嗯，而且你会得到这张非常棒的关键照片，红色背景上的绿色植物，所以，嗯，是的，我认为那会，那会引起人们的注意，所以，所以，嗯，但，但对那件事的预期是没有回报，所以我，我认为我们不会得到任何，呃，你知道，只是把钱花在那上面，而它不会，不会发生，而且，嗯，正是在尝试执行那项任务的过程中，我得出结论，认为，嗯，我对于，呃，为什么，为什么为什么为什么火星上没有人这一问题所作的假设是错误的，嗯，因为我，我一开始认为，这是因为缺乏意愿，嗯，而如果你能重新点燃这种意愿，那么，那么它就会发生。所以我最初的事情，对于，甚至对于太空这方面，其实是

让公众感到兴奋，并且让人们，嗯，呃，实质上通过投票让NASA获得更多预算，那是我最初的目标，嗯，而且，嗯，但当我尝试去做，尝试去执行那项任务时，我能够压缩，呃，卫星或航天器，以及，嗯，温室和一切东西的成本，还有通信成本，但我无法压缩，那个火箭，火箭成本。而且我实际上尝试过，呃，在这个过程中经历了一些冒险，试图，试图在火箭上谈到一个好价钱。事实上我飞往俄罗斯3次，试图购买一些洲际弹道导弹，而且实际上我也谈成了一笔交易，嗯，但，嗯，在第3次前往，前往俄罗斯之后，呃，呃，那是，那非常非常奇怪，我当时就像是在2001年、2002年身处那里，嗯，而且，呃，我，我想，好吧，如果，如果我们把这件事做好，那么它就

这会引起很大的兴趣，但，嗯，如果火箭运输仍然存在根本性的技术问题，那么这就解决不了问题。所以我认定，嗯，这不是一个……好吧，这是一个方法的问题；如果人们认为有一种方法可以做到，而又不会从根本上影响他们的生活水平，那么他们就会支持这样的事业，尤其是在美国，因为美国是一个，嗯，是一个探索者的国家。我的意思是，它是人类探索精神的凝练。人们从其他地方来到这里，呃，所以我认为，那种、那种、那种探索精神其实非常强烈，嗯，但人们需要知道这是可能的，这件事可以在不实质性地

影响他们的生活水平，所以，呃，我的意思是，你、你所取得的成就，呃，是、是令人惊叹的，嗯，包括发射后与、与空间站对接，以及，呃，Model S 赢得了“雕刻这一年”，并且、并且、并且成为一种现象，嗯，不过很好，是的，所以，嗯，我的意思是，这、这太了不起了，太了不起了；而且、而且我们稍后会回来谈 Solar City，不过你、你提到了，呃，花园，我觉得这是一个、一个很自然的过渡。我们在、在台上被一些，呃，美丽的花园环绕着，Kimle，我想知道你是否愿意稍微谈谈、谈谈这些。当然，嗯，所以，呃，我们在科罗拉多州经营的餐厅，呃，在“从农场到餐桌”成为一个说法之前，我们、我们就与当地农民合作，把当地食物端上餐桌了，而我们确实把自己视为

一家社区餐厅，而作为社区的一部分，我们做的一件事就是接触社区和学校里的孩子，让他们通过校园花园与食物建立联系。我们，你知道，会把他们带进餐厅，我们，你知道，会做各种各样的事，比如在不告诉他们是什么的情况下给他们鸡肝酱，而他们会，你知道，吃得非常开心，然后你告诉他们，他们就把它从嘴里吐出来；你知道，像这样的有趣事情，我们会，我们只是把这当成一种、一种、一种与社区建立联系的好方法。然后，嗯，我个人出了事故，嗯，一场非常严重的事故。我的左边瘫痪了，在摔断脖子后水平躺了2个月；而，呃，这确实帮助我专注于，好吧，让我回到

对社会产生更大影响这件事上。我知道现场有很多慈善家，我对此非常尊重，但对我来说，这更多是关于我该如何回馈，而且要用一种我真正理解、并且能够真正看到、看到影响的方式。我多年来一直在参与这些校园花园，所以我想出了这个名为“学习花园”的点子，也就是你们看到的这个漂亮展示。非常感谢你，Nancy，谢谢你做了这些，呃。我们所做的是，这是一个非营利组织，呃，我们前往全国各地的学校，安装这些作为校园花园的户外学习环境，而它们与传统校园花园非常不同。传统校园花园位于校园的一角

并用栅栏围起来，而这些花园被设计在校园的操场上，孩子们每天都能看到它，数百名孩子每天都会欣赏它，并且、并且、并且和它一起玩。它采用与游乐场设备相同的材料制成，所以能持续使用数十年，不像非常临时的传统校园花园。呃，我们还想出了让它更加模块化的点子，这样它就能适应任何校园，呃，屋顶、沥青地面。在我们的城市里，遗憾的是有很多有毒土壤，即使你想在那里建花园，也确实建不了。而这些全都被设计为获得 FDA 批准，专门用于食物、用于种植食物。所以我所做的是，嗯，真正根据我所拥有的经验来看待这个问题，呃，包括与埃隆合作

以及从事制造、运营，或者，呃、呃、呃，坦白说，政治方面的工作；这是一个非常重大的政治问题。然后，你知道，我能添加些什么；呃，外面有很多出色的园丁，我会第一个告诉你，我不是园丁，呃，但我、但我真的相信这些花园正在产生的影响。而且数据很惊人，我的意思是，当孩子们的校园里有一座学习花园时，我们看到他们的蔬菜摄入量翻了一番，确实翻了一番，从每天2个半份量增加到5份。呃，我们看到考试 Tes 分数，尤其是科学成绩，在100分制下提高了15分；这是他们在学习花园里接受同一堂科学课时，相比在、在教室里上课的结果。这对他们的生活产生了难以置信的影响，而挑战

不在于校园花园是否有效，这一点已经得到了证明。挑战在于你要如何扩大规模，如何创造出一种能在几年内覆盖100,000所学校的东西，因为那就是我们面临的问题。儿童肥胖是今天的问题，不是明天的问题。20%的弱势儿童在进入幼儿园时已经肥胖。呃，这是一场可怕的悲剧。我们有这些可怜的孩子，他们不仅肥胖，实际上还在挨饿，因为我们给他们的食物没有营养；它有热量，却没有营养。而这就是一种糟糕、糟糕的状况，是我们已经造成、正在造成的一场真正的悲剧。所以对我来说，我想做的是，我该如何加入进来并说，好吧，我知道我所知道的，呃，我知道我认为自己能做好什么，让我看看我

能创造出什么，使它真的能够在几年内进入100,000所学校。所以、所以我创立了“学习花园”，理念是在这个十年结束前，覆盖每一个想要一座花园的孩子，或者每一所想要一座花园的学校，嗯，而我们有这个，我们现在有这个能力。我们需要的是付诸行动的政治意愿。因此，今年我们将安装大约200座；我们从2年前开始，呃，2年前做了1座，去年做了50座，今年将做大约20000座，希望明年做1000座，然后此后做数千座。呃，Kim，Kimble，如果人们有兴趣进一步了解“学习花园”，嗯，他们应该去哪里？呃，The Kitchen Community。

org，请去了解一下，如果你是学区主管，我知道这个房间里有一些学区主管，因为我早些时候和你们进行过一些激烈的交谈，呃，请去了解一下，因为没有比这更好的办法来教孩子们科学了，我们都明白，让我们的孩子热爱科学是这个国家面临的一个重大问题，这非常重要，而儿童肥胖问题也非常重要，我们需要解决这个问题，我们正在造就昂贵而低效的人，让我们就此打住吧，让我们解决这个问题，现在就解决，AB，绝对如此，嗯，我，我，我想我们会，我们会稍微谈谈，呃，Solar City，然后也许开放，呃，让观众提问，嗯，Solar City，呃，我是说，你的，你的家族很非凡，嗯，也许你想稍微谈谈

Solar City是如何起步的，以及你的，你的角色是，而且，而且，呃，当然，那，那么，呃，Sol city是由我们的2个表亲lynon和Peter RI创办的，他们都是非常优秀的人，嗯，在创办Sol City之前，他们做过一家叫everdream的公司，这家公司从事计算机以及其他资产、电子资产的大规模管理，后来卖给了戴尔，嗯，而且那家公司做得相当不错，所以，呃，而Sol city的起源实际上是，嗯，你知道，我们当时和表亲们一起参加bu winning man，而且，而且，而且，呃，他们，他们正在考虑下一步做什么，我说，嗯，我认为太阳能行业确实需要，嗯，需要优秀的创业者，而且，嗯，我说，如果，如果，如果他们愿意创办一家太阳能公司，那么，呃，我会全力支持他们

所以他们接受了我的提议，呃，创办了 Solar City。Solar City 本质上是一个巨大的、巨大的分布式公用事业公司，呃，或者我会说，它现在是一个小型分布式公用事业公司，但希望它将成为一个巨大的分布式公用事业公司。嗯，而且显然，它依靠的是太阳，也就是天空中那个巨大的聚变反应堆。嗯，所以它是某种能持续非常、非常长时间的东西。嗯，我最终认为，呃，我们从太阳能中产生的能源将超过任何其他来源。事实上，值得注意的是，这颗行星已经几乎完全由太阳能驱动了。嗯，因为如果没有太阳，我们会是一个温度为 3 开尔文的冰冻冰球，而太阳驱动着我们整个降水系统和生态系统，所以，嗯，

所以实际上，我们谈论的只是人类用来维持文明运转的那么一点额外能源，但与实际照射到地球上的能量相比，这确实是相当小的一部分，对吧？而且 Solar City 几个月前上市了。是的，12月上市的。那是一次相当艰难的 IPO，嗯，我们设法完成了它。嗯，现在它表现得还算不错。好吧，你们两位都取得了惊人的成功。嗯，假设这些显示器能用，我们要开始回答观众的问题了。嗯，目前它们还不能用，如果还是不行，那么，呃，我会……哦，我，我，我看到这里有一台显示器亮起来了。嗯，好吧，哪些关键特质、技能或环境因素让你们如此成功？

呃，我不知道，你为什么不替我回答？或者你，你觉得呢？我来……这是个好主意。所以，呃，我住在科罗拉多州一个叫博尔德的小镇。呃，我的，我的笑谈是，我在南非长大，当时 AP parite 正在瓦解，那是一段非常、非常艰难的时期。然后我去了加利福尼亚，当时互联网正在兴起，令人兴奋但也很艰难。然后 911 期间我在纽约市，那是一段艰难的时期。现在我在博尔德这个小镇上，等着某件严重的事发生。呃，所以我认为这些经历对我影响很大。我觉得对我个人的影响是持续不断的，呃，呃，偏执，我猜吧。也许说得更好些，我不愿这么说，不是负面意义上的，但就是，呃，你只是有点，你知道，你一直在等着某件非常激烈的事情发生，所以，

我认为这会让你时刻保持警觉，并推动你继续前进。嗯，是的，我认为，呃，就是，呃，要顽强，而且，嗯，呃，要……好吧，我，我认为极度专注于真相非常重要，并从所有来源寻求，呃，反馈。嗯，我认为这些，这些确实是关键。是的，是的。呃，我还想补充一点，据我对你们两位的了解，你们非常注重细节。呃，整个体验中没有任何微小部分不会得到你们的关注。嗯，所以，呃，呃，我还有一个问题，你知道，呃，埃隆，人们把你和亨利·福特、理查德·布兰森，嗯，你知道，史蒂夫·乔布斯相提并论。呃，你把自己和谁相比？嗯，我，我其实不会把自己和任何人相比。嗯，我的意思是，这不是……嗯，我的意思是，确实有一些我钦佩的人，

历史上的一些人，我认为他们，你知道，我认为他们很伟大。嗯，所以当然包括许多科学家、工程师、文学人物等等。嗯，而且，呃，比如我，我是本·富兰克林的超级、超级粉丝，你知道，他是一位科学家，也算是一位思想家。我的意思是，他是那种会去做，做，做那些需要完成之事的人，你知道。所以对于那样的人，我……对，我不会说自己在任何方面能与他们相比，但我当然钦佩他们。有没有你，你敬仰的人？我，我认为我所敬仰的 2 位，从我的角度来说，我和你一样，就是，你知道，有点回望过去。呃，我喜欢温斯顿·丘吉尔。是啊，他很酷。他是……我认为那个人是，是人类收到的最伟大馈赠之一。我还认为史蒂夫·乔布斯，对。是啊。而且我认为，让我喜欢，

这些人的一点是，他们把热情倾注到了工作中。这与职位无关，与来上班无关，而是关乎创造，关乎在你的社会中带来改变。我认为，这正是我一直以来在我弟弟和其他任何人身上所钦佩的东西。你知道，从我自己的创业经历中，我观察到一件事：呃，那些一开始创建公司就是为了赚很多钱的人，呃，几乎无一例外都会失败。真正成功的是那些从，带着一个，一个梦想或某种自己充满热情并真正在乎的东西开始的人，而钱就会自然而然地到来，因为，因为我认为，如果你仔细想想，两种方式都能让你获得金钱，但如果……呃，我们有一位共同的朋友比尔·李，他有一句话，说做，创办一家企业，

从零开始就像嚼着光泽并凝视深渊。这真的、真的非常困难。如果你不喜欢，喜欢你的玻璃三明治，你会过着悲惨、悲惨的生活。所以这是非常重要的一课：做你充满热情的事，因为无论你做什么，如果它能带来改变，做起来都会超级困难。所以你最好享受它，最好对它充满热情。让，让我们看看观众还有没有其他问题。呃，下一个，下一个问题，请问金巴尔：呃，你认为影响力投资和社会企业会发挥什么作用、产生什么影响，并解决世界上的重大问题？嗯，其实别人经常问我这个问题。我简直就在一周前还和一位主要的社会投资者讨论过这个。呃，我真的，

为此纠结，老实说。嗯，我认为，呃，显然，以慈善家的身份进行投资这个想法，我很喜欢，我觉得这真的很棒。但如果你追求财务回报，就超级难不把它当成你的核心驱动力。呃，我理解双重底线或三重底线的理念，而且我，我整天都在过着这样的生活，但这是我个人的决定。嗯，我，我确实很难找到正确答案，因为你赚的钱越多，就越能通过慈善事业带来更大的改变，而且你可以把两者分开。如果你是华尔街的金融家，你可以选择成为一名颇具影响力的慈善家。我是说，我相信，一旦你达到某个程度，在那之后你所做的一切都会用于慈善，而那会带来很大的改变，

在这个世界上，如果你选择投资社会企业并获得较低的回报，我认为你会，你会很挣扎。实际上，成功非常重要。所以我真的相信要把，呃，这个问题单独分离出来，专注于成功、把事情做成。而对于投资来说，这意味着专注于投资，并在合理范围内获得尽可能高的回报，你知道，人权以及所有那些事情，但，但是，嗯，我认为社会投资是一个非常难以，难以，呃，做成的领域。其实，也许杰夫你应该回答这个问题，因为你，你一直都在做这件事。呃，是的，嗯，只不过我正坐在这把椅子上。嗯，好吧，我，我，我，我同意你的看法。我，我认为，你知道，所以社会投资具备营利性投资的全部严谨性和挑战，但除此之外又加入了，

应对某种社会变化或，或社会公益时，那些定性的、有时无法衡量的，呃，方面。所以有一件事，我其实，我是说，在非营利方面……我刚才具体指的是营利性社会冒险项目，它们……但在非营利方面，我真的很沮丧，因为没有衡量标准。你做得怎么样？你可以自己衡量自己。那就是……你需要有，你需要有某种衡量，某种共同且有依据的衡量标准。而在，在，在营利性世界里，你有利润；在非营利性世界里，就非常奇怪。这是我的第 1 个非营利组织，所以我，我是在边做边学。我不知道答案是什么。你学……有什么要补充的吗？嗯，好吧，嗯，我的意思是，嗯，但我认为一般而言，任何事情，只要它，

有可能通过一个，通过一个盈利性企业解决某个问题，那么，这就是最好的做法。所以只有当，比如说，市场存在某种失灵时，嗯，而且确实存在一些，但其实并没有那么多，不过从宏观角度来看，市场确实存在一些失灵，必须通过一个，通过一个非营利组织来解决。嗯，而且，呃，但是，但是总的来说，我会说我倾向于……我的意思是，我确实有一个小型基金会。不，不，我并不是反对捐赠东西。我确实……埃尔是这个非营利组织最大的捐赠者。是的，我的意思是，是的，总的来说，如果有办法修复市场体系，那是更好的做法。嗯，但有时没有办法，或者这样做会很复杂。2013年的埃隆与 zip 2 时代的埃隆有何不同？呃，你有哪些……

学到了，呃，嗯，我们学到了，我想，嗯，相当、相当多，从那时到现在留下了很多伤疤。嗯，我想你——我在西南偏南发表演讲时提过这件事，但是，嗯，我想，呃，我、我、我过去做过几次招聘决定，其中我、我看重，嗯，才智胜过内心，而我、我认为那是个错误。嗯，所以我一直试着、试着相应地调整。嗯，你知道，一个人是不是好人其实很重要，不只是，你知道，善良本身，对吧？是的。呃，金博尔，同一个问题，2013年的金博尔，呃，你与Zip2时期相比有什么不同？是的，就像我说的，正如说过的，那是很久、很久以前了。嗯，那个，嗯，呃，我、我会说我，呃，对自己自在多了，我更能够说不。

你知道，所以如果我面前有一个在财务上非常有吸引力之类的机会，但它不是我想做的事，我只是，我知道要说不。你知道，过去我、我、我总是会说好，然后就会卷入那些、那些并非我所热爱的事情。所以我认为这可能是我学到的最有价值的东西。我觉得我、我还有很多东西要学，所以那就是，呃，我想我们还有时间再问最后一个问题，呃，如果我们还有什么，请收尾。嗯，既然这样，嗯，我最后一个问题是，你们、你们，呃，你们、你们会一起去火星吗？我们可能会。呃，我想我们，我是说，等我们95岁的时候，我们他妈的还能做什么呢？是啊，没错。我觉得那会很好玩。嗯，我想在那之前我不会想去，但是，嗯

埃隆有一句关于去火星的名言，对吧？你介意重复一下吗？呃，好吧，我是说，所以，是的，我是说，我想，嗯，我希望死在火星上，但不是死于撞击。好了，我、我、我想就以这句话作结，我要感谢埃隆和金巴尔带来了一场精彩的座谈。谢谢，谢谢 Mil，相当非凡。让我们再次为 Elana、金巴尔和杰夫鼓掌。谢谢大家。好了，在、在各位离开之前，我们在比佛利山宴会厅为大家准备了一场精彩的深夜演出，莱昂纳尔·里奇、大卫·福斯特和保罗·安卡。我正在重温我的童年，呃，还有、还有一系列特别嘉宾，所以一定会非常有趣。比佛利山宴会厅就在走廊尽头。非常感谢。

their accomplishments are a study in opposites out of this world down to earth High-Tech high touch but while Elon and Kimble musk's means May differ their end is the same to push Humanity forward to greener pastures and Beyond they were born and raised in South Africa but Elon came to America First earning undergraduate degrees in both business and physics before briefly attending Stanford in 1995 my brother was in Canada at the time and I said look I think we should try to create an internet company so he came down and joined me Elon was more the the business Mastermind I was more the sales guy their first Venture zip 2 sold to compact in 1999 Kimble was an early investor in elon's next company which would eventually become PayPal and sell to eBay in

2002 in the Years following Kimble pursued the culinary arts eventually Landing in Colorado I'm one of the founders of the kitchen which is a restaurant in Boulder Colorado it's a nationally recognized restaurant while Kimble was pioneering local Farm totable cuisine at what would become a family of four renowned restaurants brother Elon was charting a different course when I was in in University I thought about what what are the problems that are most likely to affect the future of the world in 2002 Elon founded SP space exploration Technologies SpaceX continues America's mission to resupply the international Space Station from us soil I'm talking about sending ultimately tens of thousands eventually millions of people to Mars and then going out there

and exploring the stars in 2003 he founded Tesla Motors to build all electric cars so we had a $100,000 sports car which was the Roadster then we've got the model S which starts at around $50,000 and our third generation car which will hopefully be at in about 3 or 4 years uh will be a $330,000 car the winner by unanimous decision to a Model S in 2006 he became chairman of Solar City the largest fullservice provider of solar power in the country meanwhile Kimble while also serving on the boards of SpaceX and Tesla found another cause obesity is the epidemic of our day so I created a nonprofit called the kitchen community and what we do is we help put Learning Gardens in schools around the country to fight childhood obesity and to improve test scores when

you teach kids in the garden you can increase scores by over 15 points on a 100 point scale restur literally means restorers let's energize and connect our community let's do it with kids let's do it with real food with their unique forms of disruptive innovation the musk brothers are creating the future while holding fast to the ideals of family teamwork and service that got Humanity this far in the first place pretty amazing you you you think their mom's proud so leading the conversation with Alon and Jeff Alon and Kimble is is Jeff skull as you as you all know Jeff is one of the planet's true Visionary leaders in a number of fields as a business innovator he was the first full-time employee of eBay and he led the company's emergence into a transformative

trading platform The democratized Economic Opportunity throughout the world in 1999 Jeff founded the skull Foundation which quickly became the world's largest foundation for social entrepreneurship and in 2004 he founded participant media with the belief that a well- told story has the power to inspire change Jeff has been the executive producer now in over 39 films which have garnered five Oscars and 35 nominations in 2009 Jeff founded the skull Global threats fund with a focus on the five issues that if unchecked could endanger the future of our planet his many awards in include Time magazine's 100 most influential people business week's 50 most generous philanthropists and the John W Gardner leadership award we're honored and delighted truly delighted

to welcome Jeff skull and his conversation with Lon and Kimble Musk thanks very much thank you very much Paul for the uh the very generous introduction um my name is Jeff skull and I'm delighted to be here with my good friends Elon and Kimo musk uh in fact we're in for a I'm I'm not I'm usually the one that gets asked the question so this uh is is a chance for me to put the shoe on the other foot and it's also the first time Elon and Kimble have been on a panel together uh I first met Elon in 1995 when he was dating a classmate of mine um not long after that I I dated the same girl and and I realized then that Elon always likes to be first uh I've known Kimble for about a decade uh Kimble runs four restaurants in Colorado and he's invested heavily in

Learning Gardens which I hope he'll talk about uh at length tonight uh Elon is the CEO of both Tesla Motors and SpaceX and he's the chairman of Solar City but the first question for both of you what what do you admire about each other I do it first um so I I uh you know knows this but the um the advantage of being his younger brother is is I kind of used to get what he wanted and he wanted a lot of stuff and so uh the one time I remember we we we he wanted motorbikes I was too young I was he was seven I think and I was six or something like that which in this country it's not very common to get motorbikes but one of the one of the great things I admire about Elon is when he when he wants something he really wants it and he goes and gets it and it's amazing

to watch him do that as his as his brother and and he's done it throughout his life interesting um well I think um Kimble uh is just one of the the the the nicest people I I know in the world um i' I've never in all um all my life seen Kimble intentionally do a mean thing um so I admire that a great deal uh the the the two of you as I understand it I mean on entrepreneurs are interesting because they often get started at a young age uh doing entrepreneurial ventures of some kind and uh I understand that when you were still in South Africa you had a a venture of some kind yeah the uh the video arcade yeah the yeah we This brilliant idea to start a video arcade um because we really knew what games were popular yeah um and also we were video experts uh at

14 and 15 and the reason we had to stop was because we went to the city to get a a code variance and you need to be 18 to sign and we had never told our parents and uh we already had a lease we had games coming and now when the parents found out they put a stop to it which is a real bummer because it would have been very successful yeah well uh I'm glad that wasn't the uh the the fin barrier to success um but you you that that was the first time that you worked together uh as brothers and um eventually that led to a company called zip 2 uh I I I wonder if you wouldn't mind talking about zip 2 how did it come about uh what was the idea what was the what was the whole process like for you uh sure um well and Kimble do you want to do you want to start off

or should I well I mean I would start with the road trip the road trip yeah yeah okay so a year before this is 94 we took Elon was working at some video game company in uh there's a theme Here what D I actually working assuming two jobs one was at a video company a video game company that was ironically called rocket science um and and then working on Ultra Ultra capacitors during the day for electric cars and so uh we went on a road trip from Silicon Valley to Philadelphia and it was in '94 and we were both I'm younger than Elon but we were both finishing school at the same time because I'm much smarter than him um um Elon actually was doing a double major so that's why but anyway so uh we ended up doing that and um the uh uh we went we started with

a medical Network medical database remember that yeah well there bunch of iterations uh but um I think the the the the thought in 95 was that the internet was going to be something really that fundamentally changed Humanity it was like Humanity acquiring a nervous system you know previously uh people would communicate information almost by osmosis relative to how the internet works um you know if you wanted to have access to a lot of information like you go to like the Library of Congress but um unless you're a physic where the books were you you didn't have access to that information but with the internet um you could be anywhere in the world and if you connected to the internet you have access to all the world's information so it was really just like

the humanity was almost becoming like a super organism with um a nervous system so we wanted to be part of you know building some elements of that and it was a funny time because it made so much sense to us but we had literally had a guy throw us throw a Yellow Pages book at us he was a very senior executive and um tell us do you ever really think the internet is going to replace this yeah and literally and you're kind of looking at them going this guy's screwed yeah yeah he didn't and people didn't know what the internet was yeah including in Silicon Valley yeah yeah there was like something that universities and like the government used and nobody was really doing anything on it and you certainly couldn't make money yeah yeah so did did you know that

you were on to something right away or did people just think you were crazy and pursuing some bizarre dream uh when when did it occur to you that zip 2 might be a success well I mean when we first started out I think our Ambitions were really quite quite low um it was really to make enough money to pay the rent yeah we we we got a v give us money that was yay we thought it was all over then yeah it was pretty crazy I mean when we started out at 95 we literally at the beginning we had one computer which um would be the web server during the day and and then at night I'd program on it um and and we'd sleep in the office we couldn't afford to to yeah an apartment it was cheaper to rent the office than to rent an apartment so we just rented the office and

stepped in the office and showered YCA and for me the worst part was eating a Jack In The Box three times yeah man this this like it's really diff difficult get food at paloalto after like 10: p.

m.

um it's like Jack In The Box and a few other options so we rotated through the Jack in the Box menu I remember the one time I was literally at Jack In The Box hopefully you guys aren whoever's from the companies not here and it was it was one of those like 3: in the morning things and it was I took a milkshake and I was so tired and there was something in the milkshake and I Lear like this yeah that's your standard just dropped to to nothing yeah so so uh yeah in through through the end of 95 where're that's essentially we're just sleeping in the office and Ching at the YMCA and then um and around the end of 95 is when net skate went public and and then whether or not somebody knew what the internet was they knew that you could make money on the internet

somehow um or even if it's only on the greater fool Theory so uh when we went and talked to VCH capitalist in uh early 96 there was a much greater um interest in what we were doing um in fact the round closed in like maybe a week or something it crazy yeah we went from sleeping in the office to people throwing I mean at again this is a financial crowd so you guys see these numbers every day but for us to hear we'll give you $3 million yeah sound extremely we thought they were crazy like why would they do that it was literally like these people are insane they obviously do not realize we're sleeping in the office in fact when they when they did fund us they they realized that we were illegal immigrants well I mean yes we were i' say it was a great area

yeah yes we were I was we were illegal immigrants we were sleeping in the office we didn't have a car we had one car where the wheel kept falling off well actually yeah the the the wheel did actually fall off the car yes exactly um and and the Venture capitals actually bought us cars yeah well they they gave us 40 Grand it was 40 Grand to go buy cars which was at the time was more money than we ever seen yeah and and I bought a uh I spent 35k on a series 167 um Jager e type um which didn't drive but but he got what he wanted yeah it looked really great by the side of the road um he he he got it he was driving it home from the dealer and it and it broke down and he had to actually come to the house with on a flatbed truck right it didn't and it didn't

improve from there I mean it was really BR should have kept the truck yeah it it it reminds me in some ways of uh you know eBay went public 1998 and we had kind of the scrappy startup mentality as well and uh the first time I ever saw Elon on on TV was uh when you took delivery of um McLaren Supercar that's right um so yeah um right so so so presumably somewhere between sleeping on the floor of the office and the McLaren uh something happened yeah um yeah so at sub2 we basically created uh software to help bring the media companies online so we um it was sort of Internet publishing software it was the Yellow Pages White Pages uh maps and directions that kind of thing and um and we helped bring some of the major media companies online or at least a portion

of what their online presence was and so we had as customers and investors uh New York Times company night rder host and most of the major media companies um and then in fact the guy that threw the telephone book at us eventually became an investor yeah right and then the company sold uh to compact uh for a little over 300 million yeah uh Circa 1999 late late '90s yeah that's right it was uh yeah think the deal was sort of struck late 98s and then it concluded early 999 and so so then what happens to you guys I mean at that point you're 23 24 years old give or take and you you've gone from uh being barely able to pay the rent to having uh substantial resources how how did that influence your paths in what you did next the way I I like to think about it

is I was like a dog in a cage getting beaten for four years and then they let me out and hear all the T-Bones you can eat uh so it was a very weird experience actually because you don't think I I thought I was building that company for life and then boom they you know they give you lots and lots of money and easy to carry bags and you leave it was totally surreal and and what did you do so I went to New York so I I I was done with Silicon Valley I think technology is is my brother's thing he loves it and I I enjoy it too but but honestly for me food is what I've always been passionate since I was a kid I was a cook in a family and it's ironic he's much thinner than I am you know it's true I can eat anything although I'm finding out as you get older it

doesn't work out that way yeah uh but no so I went to New York uh and I learned to cook I went to the uh you know I was young and I I figured you know what what else do you do when you have enough financial resources to do whatever you want uh and I always wanted to learn to cook so I enrolled in at a cooking school is one of the top schools in the country in New York City and had this incredible experience of uh cooking with some of the best most talented chefs in the world and um it was a unique circumstance for me personally because I was there in New York during 911 and and I graduated from cooking school just before 911 and I lived right by the World Trade Center so I saw the everything happened it was a very big event in my life uh but what the

rare opportunity it gave me uh was the opportunity to cook for the firefighters so I spent six weeks at Ground Zero cooking for the firefighters and that's when I kind of my I always loved food but my passion for community and connecting uh people to to each other through food was just an I mean I literally couldn't even describe how incredible this experience was and so I came out of that with a very strong intention to to start a restaurant and uh having been part of a company that just sold for 300 million and investing in PayPal which at the time is worth billions of dollars doing a was a weird decision but for me it was the right decision so for you it unlocked uh a path to dreams that maybe you had beforehand or just opportunistically you just said

this is what I want to do and and you you still uh not only run the the restaurant you began but there's more to it uh yeah well uh you mean the nonprofit or do you mean no I mean just in terms of there are more than one restaurant oh yeah sure so you know uh I I um turns out I'm actually pretty good at cooking I didn't I didn't really know I was good at cooking but but when I opened the restaurant with I had two partners uh Hugo and Jen opened the restaurant we were supposed to do 60 people a night and it was just going to be the SL project for me because I was still involved in elon's companies Tesla and SpaceX and uh you know today we serve 10,000 people a week you know and it's just just continues to grow um uh Elon for you uh ZIP 2 happened you sold

it and it and bought the McLaren yeah um and if I'm not mistaken you you invested most of that money into your next uh your next venture uh x.

com that's right um so uh yeah most the most of the funds went into x.

com which was later renamed PayPal um and uh uh yeah and that worked out pretty well it worked out pretty well but looking looking back on it um would because you put a lot of your eggs in in that basket would you would you advise entrepreneurs to roll the bones quite the way you do yeah absolutely I think so um I think I think I think it's worth investing your own capital in what you do I I don't believe in the sort of other people's money thing um you know I think if you're not willing to to put your own um assets at stake then you shouldn't ask other people to do to do that um so eBay comes along buys PayPal um and then I I I remember 2003 give or take uh meeting Elon at a at a coffee shop in paloalto this was not long after the PayPal uh deal had

closed and I said to Elon what would you like to do next and and you had three things to say right do you remember what they were well um yeah but yeah uh I mean there basically you know space solar and electric cars space solar and electric cars yes two point yeah um wait space electric cars what was the middle one uh well so uh I asked you on what he wanted to do and he um he he said he wanted to do something in solar power he wanted to uh colonize Mars eventually uh but to but to get there by uh building a rocket business a sustainable business and and building electric cars and uh let's talk a little bit about uh about Mars uh so where did where did this come from when when did you have that dream how did that come to be um well um I guess you know

when I was in college that I thought about things that would most affect the future of humanity and and there were three areas that I thought would have the biggest impact and those were the internet sustainable energy of which uh solar power is the production side and um electric cars is the consumption side and then um Humanity becoming a multiplet species I think our future will fundamentally bate to one where we are space breing civilization or one where we are confined to Earth until some eventual Extinction event although I'm quite optimistic about life on Earth I should point out I want to people think that that by that uh I expect some imminent uh catastrophe but um I I think that the probable probable outcome for civilization on Earth is is quite

quite good for a long time um but I still think that we should uh try to extend life beyond Earth and have a and the thing to do is to establish a base on Mars and ultim and try to make that a self- sustaining base as soon as possible um so uh I don't expect that SpaceX is going to do that sort of single-handedly but I think we're we're going to try to advance the technology of space travel to the point where um we can at least send some number of people to Mars which is not currently possible um as recall uh when followup question Jeff uh when when SpaceX started I think the first three rocket launches weren't successful and and the and the fourth one was um what would have happened if the fourth one hadn't worked we would have failed yeah but but let's

talk about the one of the the failures were spectacular so I mean I so I would go out to the island quajon with El and seeing giant exploding Rockets is quite an amazing site uh and I was one of the early investors in SpaceX and I said you know what if all I get to do is to see these rockets explode well worth every dime I put into this there there's something to be said about brotherly support but it was an amazing thing to watch uh what Elon would had built with those rockets in I mean on a Sho string in the middle of nowhere and literally the middle of the Pacific 2,000 miles from Hawaii uh and uh that exper we'd fly in these these what are they called the what are those helicopters Hues you're flying the Hues you feel like you're right out of out

of Apocalypse Now flying to Dr Evil's Island uh really amazing I mean and again with every penny still to this day I'd say so uh I I think the failures were actually unbelievably exciting to be part of yeah yeah thank you Eli you're welcome um I mean the the the the point the point being that um these Ventures now seem to have a wonderful momentum and things are going well but I I remember well there was a point in time when when each of them uh had their their Tipping Point and could have gone either way I wonder I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the origins of Tesla sure um so with the um I as mentioned I was quite interested in electric cars from when I was doing my undergrad physics and um in fact I originally came out to California to

do PhD at Stanford and applied physics and Material Science to work on Ultra capacitors and electric cars um so it was a a longstanding interest of mine and um and the internet kind of put that on hold for a few few years but then once after PayPal icid I want to get back into um electric vehicles and um make something happen in that Arena particularly since um GM had come out with the ev1 and and I thought okay well there's not really a need for a startup company to develop electric cars because obviously GM is going to create the ev2 and the EV3 that's logical sequence and um it we get increasingly you get better and better with each iteration um and so not really need for for for a new company in that Arena um but but actually what happened was that

after California changed the regulations to no longer acquire electric cars uh GM recalled all the ev1s and then just to make sure that nobody could get them back they crushed them in a in a in a lot somewhere um and and in fact um while they were being crushed the the people who had been the ev1 owners who did not want those CS recalled actually held a candle at vigil as though somebody was getting executed basically um and it's like that just seemed extremely crazy that GM would ignore this because um you know it's quite rare for people to hold a candle at digital about a product um and particularly a GM product so so if if if people are doing that you should really pay attention um but but they they they wanted to just sort of erase all that and uh

so I thought okay well we got to try to create an electric car company but it wasn't as though in creating these companies that we thought that we would be successful um I thought that the most likely outcome was failure um but but it was still worth doing even though the the odds of success were low in fact even for for for SpaceX the originally what I started doing was not creating a rocket company but but actually was going to do um a small mission to M which was just a philanthropic mission where you we would send a small Greenhouse with seeds and dehydrated gel and the would um upon Landing hydrate the gel and you'd have this cool picture of green plants on a red background and the public tends to respond to precedents and superlative so this would

be the first life on Mars furthest the life have traveled um and you'd have this great money shot of green plants on a red background so um yeah I thought that would that would get people's attention so so um but but the expectation for that was was no return so I I thought we wouldn't get any uh you know just spend the money on that and it wouldn't wouldn't happen and um it was in the process of trying to do that mission that I concluded that um I'd made a mistake with respect to uh my assumptions about why uh why why why are there no people on Mars um CU I I started off thinking that it was because was a lack of will um and that if you could reignite the will then then it would happen so my initial thing with with even with the space side was was really

to get the public excited and to to get people to um uh essentially vote NASA to have a bigger budget that was my goal initially um and um but as I try to do try to do that mission was able to compress the costs of the uh the satellite or the spacecraft and and the um the greenhouse and everything and the communication costs but I wasn't able to compress the the rocket the rocket costs and I actually tried uh had some Adventures along the way trying to trying to get a good deal on Rockets I actually flew to Russia three times to try to buy some icbms and I negotiated a deal too actually um but um after the third trip to to Russia uh uh which is it was very very strange I was like there in 2001 2002 um and uh I I thought well if if we do this well it's

it's going to generate a lot of interest but um if the if there's still a fundamental technology issue with rocket transport then it's not going to solve the problem so I decided that um it was it was not a question of well it was a question of of way and if if people thought there was a way to do it without it fundamentally affecting their standard of living then they would support such an Endeavor particularly in the United States which United States is a um is a nation of explorers I mean it's a distillation of the human Spirit of exploration people came here from other places and uh and so that I think that that that exploratory spirit is is actually very strong um but people need to know that that it's possible this this can be done without materially

affecting their standard of living so uh I mean what what you've accomplished uh is is amazing um between linking up with the with the space station on launches and uh the model S winning carve the year and and and being just a phenomenon um but good yes so um I mean it's it's amazing it's amazing and and we'll come back and talk about Solar City in a second but you you mentioned uh Gardens and I think that's a a natural segue we're surrounded by some uh beautiful gardens here on on stage and kimle I wonder if you might want to talk a little bit about about these sure um so uh the restaurants that we do in Colorado are uh before Farm to Table was a turn we we' work with local farmers and bring local food to the tables and we really considered ourselves

a community restaurant and one of the things we did as part of the community was to reach out to kids in the community and schools and get them connected to food through school Gardens and we you know we bring them into to the restaurant and we you know do everything from give them chicken liver pate without telling them what it was and they would you know thoroughly enjoy it and and then you tell them then they spit it out of their mouth and you know like fun things like that that we would we just did as a as a as a great way to connect into the community and then um I I had a personal accident um a very severe accident I was paralyzed my left and horizontal for two months after breaking my neck and uh just it really helped me focus on well let me go

back to having more of an impact on society and I know there's a lot of philanthropists in the crowd and I have a lot of respect for that but for me it was very much about how can I give back but in a way that really I understood and and could could really see the see the impact and I'd been working with these School Gardens for many years and so I came up with this idea called The Learning Garden which you you see beautifully presented thank you very much Nancy for for for doing this uh and what we do is it's a nonprofit uh we go to schools around the country and we install these Outdoor Learning environments that are School Gardens and they're very different to Traditional School Gardens the Traditional School Gardens being in the corner of the schoolyard

with a fence around it these are designed to be in the schoolyard on the playground where the kids will see it every day they hundreds of kids will enjoy it and and and play with every day and it's made out of the same material as playground equipment so it will last for decades unlike Traditional School Gardens which are very temporary uh we also came up with this idea to make it more modular so that you could fit it in any schoolyard uh rooftops asphalt there's a lot of toxic soil sadly in our cities where you literally couldn't put a garden there if you wanted to and these are all were designed to be FDA approved just for food for growing food and so what I did was um really look at the problem based on the experience that I had uh working with Elon

and working in whether it's manufacturing or operations or uh uh uh politics frankly which is is a very big political problem and you know what what could I add and uh there are lots of great gardeners out there and I'll be first tell you I'm not a gardener uh but I but I really believed in the impact that these were having and and the data is amazing I mean we we see a doubling of vegetable intake when kids have a learning Garden on their schoolyard literally a doubling from Two and a half to five portions a day uh we see test Tes scores particularly in science go up by 15 points on 100 point scale when they get taught the same science lesson in The Learning Garden versus in the in the classroom this incredible impact on their lives and the challenge

was not a question of school Gardens that had already been proven the challenge was how do you scale how do you get something that will reach a 100,000 schools within a few years because that's the problem we have childhood obesity is today's problem it is not tomorrow's problem 20% of underserved kids go are going into kindergarten obese uh it's an awful tragedy we have these poor children that are not only obese but they're actually starving because the food we're giving them has no nutrients it has calories but no nutrients and it's just this awful awful situation a real tragedy that we've that we're creating and so for me what I wanted to do was how do I come in and say okay I know what I know uh I know what I think I can do well let me see what I

can create that could actually go into a 100,000 schools within a few years and so so I created The Learning Garden with this idea to by the end of this decade to to reach every child that want one or every school that wants one um and we have that we have the capacity now what we need is the political will to to go do it and so we'll have about 200 installed this year and we started two years ago and uh we did One two years ago we did 50 last year we'll do about 20000 this year hopefully a thousand next year and then many thousands after that uh Kim Kimble if people are interested in finding more out about the learning Gardens um where would they go uh the kitchen community.

org please go if you're a superintendent and I know there's some superintendents in this room because I had a some heated conversations with you guys earlier uh please go learn about it because there's no better way to teach kids about science which we all understand is a massive problem in this country getting our kids to love science is so important and childhood obesity is so important we need to fix this problem we are creating expensive unproductive people let's just stop that let's fix the problem let's fix it now AB absolutely um I I I think we'll we'll talk a little bit about uh Solar City uh and then maybe open up uh to questions uh from the audience um Solar City uh I mean your your family is a remarkable um maybe you want to talk a little bit

about how Solar City got going and your your role as and and uh sure that so well uh So Sol city was founded by two cousin of ours lynon and Peter RI who were really great guys um and before Sol City they did a company called everdream which did large scale management of computers and and other assets electronic assets which was sold to Dell um and that that did pretty well so uh and the Genesis of of Sol city was actually um you know we were bu winning man with our cousins and and and uh they they were thinking about what to do next and I said well I think there's um a real need for um for great entrepreneurs in the Solar industry and um and I said if if if they were willing to start a solar power company then uh I would completely back them on that

so they they took me up on the offer and uh created Solar City which um what Solar City is essentially is a giant giant distributed utility uh or it's I'd say right now it's a small distributed utility but it will be hopefully a giant distributed utility um and uh and it's obviously one that's based on on the Sun that giant Fusion reactor in the sky um so it's it's something that'll last for for a very long time um I ultimately think that uh we will generate uh more energy from solar power than from any other source in fact it's worth noting that the the planet is already almost entirely solar powered um in that we would be a frozen ice ball at 3 Kelvin if not for the sun and the sun Powers our whole system of precipitation and the the ecosystem so um

so really we're just talking about a little bit of extra power that um Humanity uses for to to run civilization essentially but it's really quite a small amount um relative to the amount that actually hits the Earth right and and Solar City went public uh a few months back yeah went public in in December it was quite a difficult IPO um and uh were able to get it through um and now it's doing doing reasonbly well well they are amazing successes uh on on both your parts um we're going to go to questions from the audience assuming uh these monitors work um as as of the moment they're not and if not then uh I will oh I I I see a monitor coming on here um all right what what are the key traits skills or circumstances that have allowed you to be so successful

uh I don't know why don't you answer for me or do you what do you I'll that's a great idea so the uh I live in a small town in Colorado called Boulder and uh my my joke is I grew up in South Africa during the collapse of AP parite very very difficult time then I went to California during the rise of the internet exciting but difficult time then I was in New York City during 911 difficult time now I'm in this little small town of Boulder waiting for some serious to go down uh so I think those had very big impact on me and I think the the impact personally is constant uh uh paranoia I guess maybe better I hate to say that not in a negative way but it's uh you're just kind of you know you're waiting for something really intense to happen all the time so

I think that just keeps you on your toes and and keeps you moving forward um yeah I think uh just a ob being being tenacious and um uh being well I I think just being super focused on on the truth is extremely important and looking for uh feedback from all sources um I think those those are really key yeah yeah uh I I'd also add know knowing both of you is that you're very detail oriented uh there there's no small part uh of the experience that doesn't get attention from you um so uh uh another question that I had you know uh Elon you've you've been compared to Henry Ford Richard Branson um you know Steve Jobs uh who do you compare yourself to um I I don't really compare myself to anyone um I mean it's not um I mean there's certain people that I admire

from history that I think are you know I think are great um so of certainly many of the scientists and engineers and literary figures and so forth um and uh like I'm I'm a big big fan of Ben Franklin you know who was a scientist and sort of thinker and I mean he was kind of guy who who did did did what needed to be done you know so guys like that I right I wouldn't say I compare myself in any way but I certainly admire them are are there people you you look up to I I think the the two that I look up to in my way I look the same thing as you know kind of look back uh I love Winston Churchill yeah he's cool he's the that guy I think is was one of the greatest gifts to Mankind and I think Steve Jobs right yeah and I think the thing that that makes me like

to these people is that they put their passion into their work and it's not about the job it's not about coming to work it's about creating making a difference in in your society and I think that that's what what I have always admired with my brother and with anyone else you know one one thing I've observed from my own entrepreneurial history is that uh people that start out building a company to make a lot of money uh almost invariably fail it's it's people that start out uh with with a a dream or something that they're passionate about and they care about and the money just kind of comes as as I think if you think about it you can get money both ways but if uh we have a mutual friend of ours Bill Lee who has this phrase that doing starting a business

from scratch is like chewing gloss and looking into the abyss it is really really hard and if you don't like like your glass sandwich you're going to have a miserable miserable life and so it's a very important lesson do what you're passionate about because no matter what you do if it's making a difference it's super hard to do it and so you better enjoy you better be passionate about it Le let's see if we have any other questions uh from from the audience yeah uh next next question please for Kimble uh what role and impact do you see impact investing and social Ventures having and solving the world's major problems um so I actually get this question asked to me a lot I was literally had this conversation with a major social investor a week ago u i really

struggle with it to be honest um I think the idea of uh obviously investing as a philanthropist I love I think that's really great but if you're looking for a financial return it is super hard to not have that as your key driver uh I get the idea of double bottom line or triple bottom line and I I live that life all day long but it's a personal decision of mine and um I I really do struggle with the right answer because the more money you make the more difference you can make in philanthropy and you can separate the two and you can be quite impactful as a philanthropist if you're a financier on Wall Street you can choose to I me I'm sure once you reach a certain point everything you do will be for philanthropy after that and that makes a big difference

in the world if you chose to invest in Social Ventures and get a smaller return I think you you struggle you actually success is very important and so I really believe in isolating uh the the problem focus on success getting it done and in the case of investing that means focusing on investing and getting the highest possible return within reason you know human rights and all that stuff but but um social investing I think is a very difficult space to to uh make work and actually maybe Jeff you should answer that question because you you do that all the time uh yeah um except I'm sitting in this chair um well I I I I agree with you I I think you know so social investing has all the rigor and challenges of uh for-profit investing but added into that is

the qualitative sometimes unmeasurable uh aspects of dealing with some sort of social change or or social good uh so one of the things I actually I mean on the nonprofit side I was specifically referring to for-profit social Adventures which but on the nonprofit side I get really frustrated because there is no measuring stick it's how are you doing you get to measure yourself that's you need to have you need to have some measuring some some common grounded measuring stick and in the in in the for-profit world you've got profit and in the nonprofit world it's very weird it's my first nonprofit so I'm I'm learning as I go I don't know what the answer is you Lear anything to add on that um well um I mean um but I think generally anything that that if it's

possible to solve a problem um with a with a profitable Venture then it's that's the best thing to do so it's only when like the there's some failure in the market um and and there are some but actually aren't that many but grand scheme things there are some failures in the market that have to be addressed with with a with a nonprofit um and uh but but generally I'd say are on the side of I mean I do have a small Foundation no no as not as I against giving stuff I do El's the biggest donor to the nonprofit yeah I mean yeah generally if there's a way to fix the market system that's the better way to do it um but sometimes there isn't or the complications in doing it how how is the Elon of 2013 different from the Elon of the zip 2 days uh what have you

learned uh well we learned I think well quite quite a lot a lot of scar tissue between now between then and now um I think you I've mentioned this at uh at when I was gave my talk at sou by Southwest but um I think the uh I I I've made several hiring decisions in the past which where I I valued um intellect over heart and I I think that was a mistake um and so I've try to try to adjust accordingly um you know it actually matters whether somebody's a good person Beyond just you know goodness itself it right yeah uh Kimble same question the Kimble of 2013 uh how are you different from the zip two days yeah as I say as said that is a long time time ago um the um uh I I would I would say I'm uh much more comfortable with myself I'm much more able to say no

you know so if there's an opportunity in front of me that is very financially attractive or whatever and it's not what I want to do I just I know to say no you know in the past I I I would always say yes and I would get involved in things that that weren't what I was passionate about so I think that's probably the most valuable thing I've learned I think I I've have a lot to learn so that's uh I think we have time for for one last question uh if we got anything please wrap up um in that case um my last question is are are uh are are you uh are you guys going to go to Mars together we might uh I think we I mean when we're 95 what the hell else are we going to do yeah exactly I think that'll be fun um I don't think I would want to go before that but well

Elon has has a famous line uh about going to Mars right would you mind repeating it uh okay I mean so yeah I mean I think um I would like to die on Mars but just not on impact all right I I I think on on that note I'd like to thank Elon and Kimble for a wonderful panel thank thank you to the mil pretty extraordinary let's have one more time for Elana and Kimble and Jeff thank you all right before before you all all leave we have a great late night show for you in the Beverly Hills Ballroom Lionel Richie David Foster and Paul Anka I'm reliving my childhood uh and and a series of special guests so it's gonna be a lot of fun Beverly Hills ball room right down the hall thank you so much