欢迎回来，我们又来了，很高兴见到你，也恭喜你。谢谢。嗯，当你想到你的孩子出生时，你永远都不会忘记世界上正在发生什么。在这个孩子今后的一生中，你都会知道，你出生在一个奇怪的时期，那是肯定的。那是肯定的。可能是我记忆中最奇怪的时期。呃，是啊，是啊。嗯，而且他出生于，呃，5月4日。是啊，这也太好笑了。是啊，愿原力与他同在。是啊，没错，必须如此。但愿如此，我当然希望如此。完美。是的，我是说，那对你而言是完美的一天。这个名字怎么念？嗯，呃，它首先是个占位符吗？我的伴侣其实是主要想出这个名字的人。恭喜她。是啊，是啊，她很会取名字。嗯，所以，我是说

就是 X，字母 X。嗯，然后 ae 的发音像“ash”。是啊。然后是 A12。A12 是我贡献的部分。哦，为什么是 A12？呃，Archangel 12，SR-71 的前身，有史以来最酷的飞机。确实。我同意你的看法。我不知道，我不熟悉它。我知道 SR-71 是什么。是啊，是啊，是啊，我知道那是什么。所以 SR71 源自中情局一个名为 Archangel 的项目。哦，是 Archangel 项目，然后是 Archangel 12。

哦，哇，这飞机看起来真酷。是啊。哦，好吧，我明白了。是啊，作为一个像你一样非常热衷于航空旅行的人，这，呃，太合适了。那相当棒。是啊，相当棒。嗯，那么，在这种疯狂局面持续之际有了一个孩子，感觉奇怪吗？你以前已经有过孩子了，这次有没有更奇怪？呃，实际上，我觉得年纪更大时有孩子更好。我更珍惜这件事。嗯。是啊，婴儿太棒了。他们确实相当棒。他们太棒了。是啊，在我还没有自己的孩子时，我会看到别人的孩子，我并不是不喜欢他们，当然，但我不会被他们吸引。当然。但现在，当我看到小人儿的孩子时，我会想，哦，我觉得他们就像这些小小的爱心礼包。是啊，小小的可爱宝贝。是啊，就是你

当你看到他们出生，然后长大，最终开始和你说话时，你看待他们的方式就不同了，就像你对婴儿是什么的整个概念都大不相同了。是啊。所以现在，随着你，你知道，年纪渐长，并且能以一个成熟、完全成形的成年人的身份欣赏这件事，那一定真的相当美妙。是啊，很美妙。太棒了。但婴儿太棒了。是啊，是啊，那，呃，那太好了。嗯，是啊。嗯，我是说，另外，我在 AI 和神经网络上花了很多时间，所以你可以算是看到大脑逐渐发育，而这正是，你知道，AI 神经网络试图模拟的东西，基本上就是模拟大脑所做的事。嗯，而且你算是能看到它学得非常快，你知道，就是，哇，看到各种东西激发。所以你说的是神经网络，你说的不是一个

真正的婴儿。我不知道，其实是一个真正的婴儿，但两者都是，是的。不过“神经网络”这个词源自大脑，它就像一个由神经元组成的网络。所以，你知道，它就像，是啊，人类是，你知道，神经网络的元祖大佬。这种说法太棒了。是啊，所以当你为人工智能编程，或者你与人工智能艺术打交道时，他们是否在许多方面专门试图模仿人脑的发育过程？有些方面不一样。嗯，你知道，一个经常使用的类比是，就像，你知道，我们不会让潜艇像鱼一样游泳，但我们会采用，你知道，什么，流体动力学的原理，并将其应用于潜艇。作为一个外行，我一直想知道，你们是试图

通过不同的方法实现与人脑相同的结果，还是试图复制人脑取得结果的方式？我是说，AI 神经网络的基本要素确实与人脑的神经网络非常、非常相似。是啊。它拥有多层神经元，还有，你知道，反向传播，所有这些东西都是你的大脑会做的。你知道，它有点，是啊。嗯，你有一层神经元，它会经过一系列中间步骤，最终形成认知，那个，然后它会反向执行这些步骤，来来回回，到处运转。嗯，它，嗯，是啊，它很有意思。非常有意思。是啊，我可以想象，比如想到要编写某种东西，而它最终将比我们更聪明，那

有一天它会说，你为什么要那样做？比如，当人工智能拥有感知能力时，它们会说，哦，你试图模仿你自己，像这样好得多的流程，把所有这些废话都删掉。但就像，有些要素是相同的，只不过几乎就像，就像飞机不像鸟那样飞，对吧？是啊。它不会扇动翅膀，但机翼的运作方式和产生升力的方式与鸟相同。现在你正处于这个，呃，这个奇怪时期之中，你在卖掉自己的房子。你说你不想要任何物质财产。我一直都在关注这一切，也一直非常期待和你聊聊这件事。是啊。因为这样的话出自像你这样的人，是件很有意思的事，比如你为什么要这么做？我其实有点

难过。但如果你为此难过，为什么还要这么做？我觉得，我觉得财物多少会拖累你。然后它们有点像一个攻击向量，你知道，人们会说，嘿，亿万富翁，你有这么多东西。就像，好吧，而现在我没有东西了。现在你要怎么办？攻击向量的意思是，比如人们会以此为目标。是啊。嗯，有意思。是啊，但显然你会，所以你会租个地方。是啊。好吧，然后扔掉除衣服以外的一切？不，我说的是差不多所有东西。所以，就像，留几辆 Tesla。是啊，当然。是啊，多少得测试产品之类的。嗯，是啊，肯定会把那些有情感价值的东西留在这里。嗯，是啊。所以你觉得最糟能发生什么，对吧？你没问题。是啊，你随时都可以买

更多东西，如果你不喜欢这样的话，尤其是。是啊，我是说，用你卖掉所有东西得到的钱，你可以买新东西。但你是否，你是否觉得人们用你很富有这个事实来定义你，而且他们以一种贬义的方式定义你？当然。我是说，不是每个人，但对吧，你知道，呃，当然，近些年来，“亿万富翁”已经变成了一个“每罐”，就像它处于一个“投射性的东西”中。所以，就像，那是一件坏事。嗯，而我是说，我认为在大多数情况下这没什么道理。如果你已经，如果你做完了，如果你基本上，呃，组织了一家公司，就像，看，比如这笔财富是怎么产生的？它的产生方式是，如果你以一种更好的方式组织人们，生产出比以前更好的产品和服务，而且你拥有那家公司的一部分所有权

，那么，那基本上就赋予了你配置更多资本的权利。所以，这里混淆了消费与资本配置。那么比如说沃伦·巴菲特，而且说得完全坦率些，我不是他最大的粉丝，但，呃，你知道，他做很多资本配置。嗯，他还会阅读很多、很多可以说是公司的年报和所有会计资料，真的相当无聊。嗯，他试图弄清楚，可口可乐还是百事可乐值得获得更多资本。我是说，那，我是说，如果你问我，这算是一份无聊的工作。嗯，但，呃，你知道，这仍然是一件必须弄清楚的重要事情，比如哪家公司应该得到更多或更少的资本，那家公司是否应该成长或扩张，它生产的产品和服务是否

比其他公司更好，还是更差，而且，你知道，是否应该，你知道，如果一家公司在生产有吸引力的产品和服务，它就应该获得更多资本；如果不是，它就应该获得更少。就会倒闭。嗯，两者之间也存在很大区别，一种人通过设计和研发出色的产品赚到多得惊人的钱，另一种人则通过投资公司、在股市中调动资金，或做类似的事情赚到多得惊人的钱。这是，这是不同的事情，而把他们全都归入同一类别，似乎，这，这非常简单，而且正如你指出的，这是一个攻击向量。是啊，当然。是啊，我是说，我认为这，这确实，我确实认为在，在美国尤其存在一种

人才向金融和法律领域过度配置的情况。呃，基本上有太多聪明人进入金融和法律领域。所以，你知道，这既是赞美，也是批评。我认为，我们应该让更少的人从事法律，更少的人从事金融，让更多的人制造东西。是啊，是啊。嗯，如果他们制造出更好的东西，那对所有相关的人来说肯定会更好。是啊，是啊，绝对如此。嗯，而且，而且，你知道，制造业过去在美国受到高度重视，而如今不是了。它，它经常被人看不起，我认为这是错的。是啊，嗯，我觉得人们算是正在认识到这一点，尤其是因为整个疫情，以及我们与中国的这种关系，就是说，在制造东西、在这里制造东西方面有很大价值。是的。

总得有人去做真正的工作。是啊。你知道，而且，嗯，你知道，比如制造一辆汽车，这是诚实的一天，那肯定不是诚实的一天的生活，你知道，或者其实是制造任何东西，或者提供有价值的服务。嗯，比如提供，你知道，更好的娱乐、好的信息。但这些都是值得去做的有价值的事情。嗯，你知道，所以，是啊，应该有更多、更多这样的事。你是否有过这样一个时刻，就是这个，摆脱物质财产的这个想法，是随着时间逐渐形成的，还是你曾有过某个顿悟的时刻，让你意识到这一点？是啊，我已经考虑这件事一段时间了。嗯，你知道，一部分原因是，比如我有一大堆房子，但大多数房子我都不会待太长时间，而这似乎

不是对资产的合理利用。比如，可能有人会享受那些房子，比我更好地利用它们。所以你不是有吉恩·怀尔德的房子吗？我有。那太不可思议了，太棒了。哇，完全就是你会期待的样子。你有没有要求买家不要把它弄……是的，那是个要求。哦，一个要求。那是，那是个好要求。是的，不是在那种情况下，在那栋房子里。是的，它可能会最后才卖掉，但我还是不在乎。呃，他是个传奇。是的，他会希望他的灵魂，他会希望他的精髓，是的，留在那栋建筑里。它就在那里。那是一栋非常古怪、古怪的房子。是的，是什么让你说它在那里？比如你从中感受到了什么？嗯，我是说，所有，所有橱柜都像是手工制作的，而且形状都很奇怪，还有像是通往虚无之处的门和奇怪的

像汽车门和隧道，墙上还有非常奇怪、奇怪的画，而且，嗯，是的。你曾经住在那里吗？它非常古怪。我确实在那里短暂住过，是的。但你为什么要买房子？比如，如果你拥有所有这些房子，你只是会觉得无聊，然后说，我觉得我想要那个吗？嗯，我，你知道，原来有一栋房子，然后朱尼尔·怀尔德的房子就在马路对面，在，在我的主宅对面。它本来要被，它本来要被卖掉，然后拆掉，变成一个，你知道，持续 3 年的大型施工区。我当时想，好吧，我想我会，我会把它买下来，保留基因水的喷涌，而且也不用面对一个巨大的施工区。然后，你知道，这，我开始遇到一些隐私问题，比如有人会，比如更少的人就会直接，比如

来到我家，然后，你知道，开始翻墙之类的。我觉得，天啊，嗯。于是我就看了看，像什么房子，我家周围的一些房子。然后有一阵子我想，好吧，你知道，建一栋房子会很酷。于是我在萨马拉路顶端买了一些地产，呃，那里视野很好。然后就像，好吧，这些，一堆某种小型老房子反正也会被拆掉。我当时就想，好吧，你知道，如果我把这些小小的、小房子收集起来，那我就能建一些，你知道，我不知道，有艺术感的东西，比如一栋，你知道，梦想住宅之类的。埃隆·马斯克的梦想住宅是什么样的？像某种托尼·斯塔克式的吗？是的，当然，是的。你必须有那个可以打开的圆顶，里面有隐形直升机和

诸如此类的东西，你知道。是的，当然，是的，是的。嗯，但，但后来我就想，天啊，我真的想，我花时间设计和建造一栋房子真的有意义吗？而且我会非常，你知道，在那些小细节和设计上变得像强迫症一样，或者我应该把那些时间分配给让我们去火星？我大概应该做后者。所以，你知道，比如什么更重要，火星还是一栋房子？我喜欢火星。好吧，你真的就是这样思考的吗？比如说，最好是规划一次火星之旅，或者把人送上火星？是的，是的，当然。我的意思是，你只能做那么多事情，对吧？对。所以你怎么能，我不知道你到底是怎么做到你所做的那些事的。反正我不，我不明白你怎么能经营 bull，加上一家无聊公司、Tesla、SpaceX，所有这些不同的

事情，你一直都在做。我就是，我不明白。我的意思是，上次你来这里时，你解释了自己如何分配时间，以及那有多忙乱、多疯狂。我仍然不明白，那种生产力，呃，令人费解。你怎么能完成这么多事情，这根本说不通。嗯，我认为我的生产力确实很高，但即便如此，时间仍然有一些升级成本，而把时间分配给建造一栋房子，即使它是一栋非常棒的房子，相比于研发把我们送上火星所必需的火箭，以及帮助销售可持续能源，这仍然不是对时间的良好利用。呃，SpaceX 和 Tesla 到目前为止，你知道，占据了最多的，类似脑力周期，嗯，你知道，无聊公司并不会占用，你知道，大概少于1%的脑力周期

还有，嗯，然后是这个 Neuralink，我不知道，也许它占5%，然后5%，那是、那是很大一块，是很大一块。对，对，我们上次谈过这个，当时你正试图弄清楚它究竟什么时候会正式启用，什么时候真的能用。你们现在正在人身上测试吗？不，我们还没有在人身上测试，但我、我觉得不会等太久。我想，我们也许能在不到1年内把 Neuralink 植入人体，我觉得。等你们这么做时，在做这种事之前，你们是否必须进行什么测试，看看有多大比例的人体会排斥这些东西？它会不、它是否存在排斥的可能？排斥的可能性非常低。

我是说，你可以把它想成，人们会植入，你知道，心脏监测器，还有，嗯，你知道，用于癫痫发作和脑深部刺激的东西，嗯，显然还有，比如，你知道，人工髋关节和，对，膝关节之类的。所以这种概率，我是说，比如说，这个，所以哪些东西会引起排斥、哪些不会，这是众所周知的。嗯，当某种东西既要读取神经元又要写入神经元时，肯定会更困难，它、它既要产生电流脉冲，又要读取电流脉冲，那、那就更难一点，嗯，比方说，比被动式设备更难。但这仍然是，你知道，完全可行的，而且，嗯，对，现在确实有人脑中装有原始的设备。什么样的设备？我想，脑深部刺激，我觉得是用于帕金森病的。

这好像确实在很大程度上改变了人们的生活，嗯，这有点不可思议，因为它有点像是在电击你的大脑，嗯，就像踢电视机那种事。嗯，然后你会想，伙计，踢电视机不该管用。有时候确实管用。对，对，老、老式电视机确实如此。我爷爷以前肯定会拍打电视机顶部。对，有时候会管用。对，所以这种深度右侧模拟，呃，植入大脑的设备，呃，从根本上改善了人们的生活。好，我们来谈谈你能谈的内容，谈谈 Neuralink 是什么，因为你上次来这里时确实不能讨论它，然后我猜后来有一份新闻稿之类的东西，大致介绍了它。对，那是在你上次在

这里之后很久才发生的。所以它究竟是什么，你们怎么做，如果有人最终真的安装了 Neuralink，会发生什么？嗯，这款设备的第1版基本上会植入你的颅骨中，但它会与颅骨齐平。所以基本上，呃，取出一块颅骨，替换，把这个神经装置放进去，嗯，再把电极，你会非常小心地把电极丝插入大脑，然后，呃，然后你，你知道，把它缝合起来，而且，嗯，你甚至看不出某个人装了它。然后、然后，所以它基本上可以连接你大脑中的任何地方，任何、任何地方。嗯，所以它可能会是某种，呃，你知道，有助于治愈，比如说，呃，视力问题的东西，比如让你恢复视力，即使你已经，比如说，

失去了视神经之类的。呃，真的？对，对，当然。听力显然也可以。嗯，我是说，几乎任何，只要是，它原则上几乎可以修复大脑中任何有问题的地方，而且它可以恢复，呃，肢体功能。所以如果你有，呃，与运动皮层的接口，然后还有一个植入物，比方说，它类似一个微控制器，放在肌群附近，呃，你、你就可以创造出一种神经分流，让四肢瘫痪的人恢复全部功能，比如他们可以四处走动，恢复正常。哇。对，所以也许会稍微更好一点。随着时间推移稍微更好一点，是的。你是说通过未来的迭代，就像那个，你知道，600万美元的人，尽管如今那会、那已经不算什么了。对，60亿美元。所以这个、这个……

孔会很小。你们必须钻开、然后用这块东西替换的孔会有多大？只有1个孔吗？嗯，对，我们目前正在研发的设备大约、大约是1英寸直径。顺便说一句，你的颅骨相当厚。所以颅骨是……我的肯定厚。可能真的是这样。嗯，我是说，如果你是个大块头，如果你是个大块头，你的颅骨其实相当厚。嗯，颅骨大概、它大概是7到14毫米。嗯，所以那大概是2英寸，0.5英寸，你知道，大约0.5英寸厚的颅骨。所以，嗯，对，对，所以这里面相当于，我们脑袋上顶着个很厚的椰子壳。它不、不像什么蛋壳。哦，对，这我相信。嗯，所以，对，你基本上植入这台设备，呃，于是你会有一个1英寸……

见方的……1英寸直径，对，就像，所以是1英寸的圆形，类似圆形的？对，我想就像、就像智能手表之类的。好。对。好。所以你取下这个1英寸直径的……就像冰钓，对吧？你去冰钓过吗？嗯，没有，但我很想去。很棒。对，真的很好玩。所以基本上，你拿一个冰钻，然后在冰面上钻下去。对。然后钻出一个小孔，就可以把钓线放进去。所以这就像那样，你是在自己颅骨顶部冰钓，然后把它塞住。对。然后你用这个 Neuralink 设备替换掉那块直径大约1英寸的颅骨，它带有电池、蓝牙和感应式充电器，嗯，然后你、而且现在你还得插入电极，呃，所以这个……

电极会由我们研发的机器人非常小心地插入，呃，它会，你知道，非常小心地放入电极，避开，你知道，任何静脉或动脉，呃，所以它，你知道，不会造成创伤。所以电极会通过这个直径1英寸的设备插入，然后它们会自己找到路径，就像……基本上是细小的导线？细小的导线。它们会自己找到通往大脑特定区域的路径并进行刺激？不，你实际上会把它们放到它们该去的位置。哦，明白了。对。这些导线会有多长？呃，我是说，它们通常会进入，比如，你知道，这取决于位置，比如，你知道，2或3毫米。所以它们就是找到那些位置。对。哇。嗯，然后，嗯，对，接着你把设备放进去，而它、它会，呃，它、它会替换掉……

取出来的那一小块颅骨，呃，然后你、你把孔缝合起来，而且、而且，嗯，最后看起来只会像一道小疤痕，就这样。好，这个可以更换或逆转吗？可以。比如有人再也受不了了，“我太聪明了，我受不了了。”对，你完全可以检查它。那么，除了恢复肢体功能、视力和听力，这些都非常惊人之外，你预计这种东西还会带来任何认知方面的益处吗？呃，会，我是说，肯定可以。嗯，呃，我是说，基本上，它是一种通用的，嗯，算是，呃，原则上能够修复任何类型脑损伤的东西。比如，如果你，或者如果你患有，比如、比如严重癫痫之类的，它可以、它可以直接、它可以直接算是阻止……

癫痫发作，比如它可以实时检测到发作，然后发出一个反向脉冲，阻止癫痫发作。嗯，如果……我是说，脑损伤有各种各样，比如有人中风后可能失去说话能力。嗯，你知道，那一叠也可以修复。所以如果你有，比如中风造成的损伤，或者你失去了，比方说，你知道，对部分面部肌肉的控制之类的，我觉得……然后等、等你变老，如果你得了，比如，你知道，阿尔茨海默病之类的，那么你会丧失记忆，而这可以帮助你，你知道，恢复记忆之类的。恢复记忆，那、那是什么机制让它能够做到这一点？比如这些导线，这些细小的导线在刺激这些区域……

大脑，然后是不是大脑的那些区域，它们，它们正在失去某种电力之类的，究竟，究竟发生了什么？是的，是的，它就像是，就像是，我认为它就像一堆电路，其中有一些像是坏掉的电路，而我们可以，像是，呃，修复那些电路，替代那些电路、电路。所以某个特定频率会通过这里？对，特定的，而那会，这个过程是不是要弄清楚需要多少或多么少，必须要，大脑的这些区域需要被加多少能量？是的，我的意思是，仍然有很多工作要做。所以当我说，你知道，我们有机会大概在一年内把它放进、放进一个人里面时，我认为那就是，那正是我的意思。我认为我们有机会

把输入放进一个人里面，并让他们，让他们保持健康，而且恢复他们失去的一些功能。令人担心的是，最终你将不得不把某个人的整个头顶切掉，再装上一个带着一大堆电线的新头顶，如果你想获得，你知道，真正的涡轮增压版本，大脑刺激的 P100D。我的意思是，最终如果你，如果你想实现完全的 AI 共生，你可能会想做类似那样的事情。当涉及 AI 时，共生是个吓人的词。这是可选的。[笑声] 我希望如此。是啊，只是，我的意思是，一旦你享受到曼哈顿博士式的生活，一旦你，一旦你成了神，似乎非常、非常不可能还会想回去再次变蠢。我的意思是，你，你真的可以从根本上

改变人类彼此交互的方式。是的。你不需要说话。我太害怕那件事了，但同时又对此非常兴奋。这奇怪吗？是的，我的意思是，我认为这是通往，嗯，你知道，我认为，像是，随着 AI 变得越来越好，嗯，那么现在让我们假设这有点像一种良性的 AI 情景，即使在良性情景中，我们也有点被甩在后面，你知道，我们，我们并没有搭上这趟车，嗯，我们就是太蠢了，对吧？所以，所以你要怎样才能搭上这趟车，嗯，是啊，所以既然打不过它们，就加入它们。所以，嗯，而我们已经，我们在某种程度上已经是赛博格了，对吧？因为你有手机，有笔记本电脑、眼镜，是的，是的，吉他、电子设备，而且我的意思是，如今如果你，你的手机，如果你

如果你没带手机，就像你患上了肢体缺失综合征。那就像是，你知道，感觉真的、真的少了什么。所以我们已经部分地，嗯，部分，你知道，部分成为了赛博格，嗯，或者本质上是 AI 共生体，嗯，只不过通往电子设备的数据速率很慢。所以尤其是输出，比如你只能用拇指操作。我不知道，比如你的数据速率是多少？乐观估计可能是每秒100比特，这已经算大方了，嗯，而现在计算机能以大约，你知道，100太比特的速度通信，你知道，所以，所以当然，你知道，在这一点上，千兆比特都微不足道。所以这，这就像是，你知道，基本上你的计算机可以快100万、做事情快100万倍，或者到某个时候，就像交谈，它们像是在和

一棵树交谈。好吧，这很无聊。你和一棵树说话，非常、不太有趣，嗯。所以，嗯，所以如果你，如果你能解决这个，这个数据速率问题，尤其是你的输出，但输入也是，那么你就能改善魔力机器之间已经在发生的共生。所以你，你可以改善它。在什么方面？当你说你们将不必再彼此说话时，我们过去常拿那件事开玩笑。我，我在这个播客里拿那件事开过100万次玩笑，说未来有一天，会有一个你能读取彼此思想的时代，而且，嗯，你们将能够以某种非语言、非身体的方式彼此连接，在不必真正使用嘴巴并制造声音的情况下，相互来回传输数据。没错。

所以当你，比如，当你，当，比如说你有某个正试图传达给另一个人的复杂想法时，会发生什么？你怎么做？这个嘛，你的大脑会花费大量精力，把一个复杂概念压缩成词语，而在把复杂概念压缩成词语时，会有很多、很多损失，发生信息损失，然后你说出那些词语，那些词语随后被解读，然后由正在倾听的人解压，而他们，他们最多只能对你试图传达的东西得到非常不完整的理解。要精确传达一个复杂概念非常困难，因为你有压缩、解压，你甚至可能没有正确听到所有词语，所以沟通很困难。

你知道，我们这里的问题是沟通失败。库尔和卢克？是的，那是一部很棒的电影。是啊，还有一个解读因素，比如你可以选择以不同方式解读某些词语序列，而它们取决于语气，取决于社交暗示，甚至是面部表情、讽刺。有很多变量。讽刺很难。是的，是啊。所以我，我说过的一件事是，或许可以通过计算机创造出一种通用语言，特别是小孩子会非常快地掌握它。比如我的孩子们会用 TikTok 和所有这些东西，而我不知道他们在做什么，他们就是知道怎么做，而且他们知道怎么做得非常快。比如他们学得真的很快，他们会教我怎么编辑

东西，而且，是啊，如果你从一年级开始教一个孩子如何使用某种新的通用语言，我的意思是，本质上就像一块罗塞塔石碑，以及某种已经完成的、能解读你的思想的东西，你就可以传达自己的思想，不留任何解读空间，清楚，非常清楚，以至于，你知道一个人在说什么，也可以告诉他们你在说什么，而且不需要声音，不需要嘴巴发出的声音，也不需要这些我们已经，呃，算是进化出来的、用来发出声音的公认方式，我们都同意，我们通过我们的文化词典，对吧，我们同意，或者我们当然可以绕过这一切。是啊，出于情感原因，我们仍然可以这样做，对吧，比如篝火。是啊，是啊，没错。我不需要篝火，我不需要烤棉花糖。

挺有意思的，对吧，嗯，所以，是的，嗯，是的，我认为原则上你将能够非常迅速地进行交流，并以高得多的精确度传达想法，而语言会……我不确定语言会发生什么变化，但在这样的情境下，你或许能够做到，就有点像《黑客帝国》那样，你想用另一种语言说话时遇到了一个问题，对吧，所以它就直接下载了那个程序，对吧。所以至少在最初几次迭代，也就是最初几次迭代中，我们将只能使用类似这样的东西，我知道 Google 的，呃，他们的一些 Pixel Buds 能够实时翻译语言。当然。是的，你可以听到，它们会用你选择的任何语言把内容播放给你。所以会是类似那样的东西。

是的，最初几次迭代……嗯，最初几次迭代是，我的意思是，我谈的是随着时间推移所能达到的极限，你知道，经过大量开发，嗯，最初几次迭代，实际上在最初几个版本中，我们要尝试做的全都是解决脑损伤问题。嗯，所以，所以就像是，不要，不要担心，那不会突然找上你，这，这需要一段时间。还要多少年才能不用说话？如果，如果开发继续加速，那么也许大约5年，5到10年。真快。真的很快。那是最理想的情况。5年后就不再说话了？最理想的情况，但我……10，10年更有可能。我一直推测，外星人可能就是未来的我们，因为如果……

你看看，比如他们头部的大小，以及他们肌肉非常少这个事实，然后他们不再使用嘴巴，他们曾经是小小的，我的意思是，你在类似“关闭的柜台是第三类”中看到的典型外星人，他们……就像如果你从，呃，南方古猿或古代人科动物变成我们，有什么区别？毛发更少，肌肉更少，头更大，然后继续发展1000年、100万年，随便多少，你……或者5年，随便吧，当 Neuralink 上、上线时，无论会发生什么，然后我们慢慢开始适应这种新的存在方式，我们不再使用肌肉，我们有这个巨大的脑袋，我们不需要言语就能交谈。你还可以保存状态。保存状态？保存状态，就像保存你的大脑状态，就像……像电子游戏里的存档……

一样。哇。就像，就像如果你想从 Windows 95 换过去。嗯，是的，我觉得我们现在就是 Windows 95。是的，从未来的视角来看可能是，嗯，不过，是的，我的意思是，你，你可以保存状态，嗯，并且原则上，如果你愿意，未来可以把那个状态恢复到一个生物体中。从物理学角度来看，没有任何东西会阻止我们这样做。这样一来你会有一点不同，但你早晨醒来时也会和昨天的自己有一点不同，事实上，如果你比较，比如5年前的你和今天的你，差别相当大。是的。嗯，所以你基本上仍会是你，我的意思是，你会……你肯定会认为自己就是你。但保存自己，然后把它转化成某种……

生物状态，比如你可以和30岁的自己一起待着，我的意思是，可能性是无限的。太奇怪了。我的意思是，想想这些东西，比如你的手机可以……你可以用手机录制视频，你根本不可能像手机或摄像机那样准确地记住一段视频，对吧，你知道。于是，呃，如果你有，比如，你知道，某个，某个，你知道，第10版 Hero Link 之类的，在遥远的未来，你就可以，你可以记住，你可以回忆起一切，但就像一部为所有完整的感官体验、情绪、一切、一切、一切作结的电影，然后把它重放出来，你还可以享受它。你应该编辑它。编辑它。是的，这样你就可以改变你的过去。你可以改变你认为是自己过去的东西。是的。嗯，所以，如果你有，比如……

现在发生的一件极其重大的事可能是一段被重放的记忆。可能是的。也许吧。如果让你猜，这是一段被重放的记忆的概率是多少？超过50。这里不可能准确地给出一个概率，对吧，但粗略来说，如果你只是有一个，只凭直觉。嗯，我脑子里没有 Neuralink，所以我说现在是0%，但当你确实拥有 Neuralink 时，它就会上升到0%以上。我们正在经历某种被保存下来的记忆这一想法，呃，尽管它仍然是一样的，却并不能让人安心。对。不知道为什么，当我们……人们谈论模拟理论时，他们会谈到当前这一切可能是一场模拟，即使你的生活也许很美好，你也许正处于恋爱之中……

你可能热爱自己的事业，你可能有很棒的朋友，但知道这种体验不知怎么地并不以一种你可以敲一敲的物质形式存在，并不会让人安心，它感觉很真实，不是吗，感觉很真实，但——但如果它不是，但它并不真实这个想法，不知为何让人不安，嗯，对，我敢肯定它应该让人不安，因为如果这不是真的，什么才是真的，对吧，嗯，但——但你知道，有那个老式的，嗯，思想实验，比如你怎么知道自己不是兽医里的一个大脑，你知道，我的意思是，现在事情是这样的，你是事件里的一个大脑，那么那块肥肉就是你的头骨，是的，而你看到、感觉到这里的一切，一切，你所有的感官都是电信号，一切——一切都是通向一个的电信号

一个缸中之脑，那个缸叫作，而你所有的激素、所有的神经递质，所有这些东西都是药物，肾上腺素是药物，多巴胺是药物，你是一座药物工厂，你不断地用爱、催产素和美来改变自己的状态，当然会改变你的状态，伟大的音乐会改变你的状态，绝对会。然而这里还有另一个挺有意思的想法，就是，嗯，因为你会问，比如意识是从哪里产生的？好吧，假设你相信物理学中的信念，而它看起来是正确的，嗯，那么你知道，我们，宇宙起初基本上是夸克和轻子，然后很快变成了氢，还有氦、锂，基本上就是元素周期表里的元素，但它基本上主要是氢，然后，然后经过很长一段时间

呃，你知道，13。

80亿年后，那个氢有了知觉。但那么在这个过程中的什么地方，那个意……意识在哪里？在氢和这里之间，对吧，意识与非意识的分界线在哪里？什么时候我们称它为，什么时候我们称它为意识？我今天看了一段视频，我们之前在一期播客里播放过，一只猴子骑着摩托车沿街行驶，从摩托车上跳下来，试图偷走一个婴儿。对，我看过那个，它们走向了服装。那只猴子有意识吗？看起来像是有。看起来它有一个计划。它骑着摩托车，然后从摩托车上跳下来，试图偷走一个婴儿，看起来相当……就是那个沿街把婴儿击打到挺远处的。对，对，看起来很有意识，对吧？肯定有某种程度的

意识存在。对，它不像，它不是一条虫子，它似乎处于另一个层次。对，而且它会继续发展，而那才是真正令人担忧的地方，当人们思考人类未来可能的版本时，尤其是当你考虑到与人工智能的共生关系时，它会变得无法辨认。总有一天，我们会与现在的这一切相去甚远，我们回望这一切的方式，会像我们现在回望，你知道，我们由之进化而来的简单、简单生物一样。而且不会是在多么遥远的未来，我们就会拥有这种回望的视角。好吧，我希望意识能延续到未来，变得更、更精密、更复杂，而且，而且它能理解关于宇宙应该提出哪些问题。你认为那是

事实吗？作为一个人，就你自己而言，你显然正在努力有意识地作出决定，成为一个更好的自己，对吧？这就是那种摆脱自己的财物，并意识到自己在努力，比如，我不喜欢这个，我会努力改善这个，我会努力以更好的方式与现实交互。事情总是这样，如果你，如果你正朝着某个方向前进，努力改善事物，你总会进入这个新的地方，在那里回望旧的地方，然后说，我当时做错了。所以这是那个过程的加速版本，超级加速版本。我的意思是，你并不总是在进步，但你可以立志进步，你可以立志少犯错。

对，这就像，我认为物理学的工具非常强大，比如只要假设你是错的，而你的目标是少犯错。我不认为你会，如果你每天都成功并且少犯错，但你知道，如果你大多数时候都能成功做到少犯错，你就做得很棒了。这是个很好的说法：立志少犯错。但之后，你知道，当人们怀念更简单的时代时，也有这一面。回望篝火是非常浪漫而令人兴奋的，但你仍然可以生一堆篝火。是的。对，但当你成为一个超级书呆子，当你连接到网络，并且用某种，呃，头盖取代你头顶的部分，而它正与国际、国际语言连接时，你还会欣赏它吗

，宇宙的其他部分现在享受着用它与人们交流，而我们……对，当然，我想会的。对，我喜欢帝国。[笑声] 我只是担心，我的意思是，呃，每个人总是害怕变化，但我害怕这种巨大的变化，届时我们不会，我们不会再说话了。我的意思是，那个东西会交流。是的，但那……语言的粗糙之美中有某种东西，当它被精妙地运用时，它，它，它令人满足，而且它，它，它会以某种发自本能的方式打动我们，比如，啊，那个人说到点子上了，我喜欢他们说到点子上了，就像那样。要捕捉一个真实的想法，并以这种清晰明确的方式传达它，让某个人……除了，比如你读到一句名言，一位智者说的伟大名言，它会让你

感到兴奋，因为他们的头脑想明白了某件事，以正确的方式把词语组合起来，让你的大脑突然开窍，比如，哦，是的。对，是的，这是对一个概念的巧妙压缩。对，还有一种感受。但一个人做到了这一点这个事实也……对，绝对是。你觉得它会不会像电子音乐一样，人们不会像欣赏滑棒吉他那样欣赏它？我喜欢电子音乐。我也喜欢。对，好吧，你会制作它。我知道你喜欢它。对，对，对。嗯，对，我的意思是，我希望未来更有趣、更好玩，而我们应该努力让它成为那样。我也希望它更有趣、更好玩。对，我只是，你知道，我只希望你不要在这个过程中失去任何东西。对，我们也许至少会失去一点，但希望我们得到的会比失去的更多。对，关键就在这里，对吧，得到

的比失去的更多，比如让我们变得有趣的一点，就是我们有这么多缺陷。这并不确定，对吧？对，我的意思是，你纵观历代文明，嗯，它们中的大多数，呃，你知道，都兴起又衰落了。对。而且，呃，我确实觉得，比如我们在某种，像是模因领域中所拥有的全球化，呃，国家或地区之间没有足够的隔离，嗯，这就像，如果你起身，如果有一种思想病毒，那种我的病毒不能感染世界上太多地方，呃，你知道，比如实际上我有点同情反全球化的人，因为这，这就像，伙计，我们绝对不希望所有地方都变得一样。那当然。而且之后我们，我们需要某种思想病毒免疫力，所以那，那有点令人担忧。思想病毒免疫力

，意思是说，一旦像 Neuralink 这样的东西建立起来，真正令人担忧的是某种东西，我的意思是，你说它是蓝牙，对吧，或者它未来的某个版本，意思是某种东西可能会进入其中，进入……不，我说的是，比如，呃，某个人，有某种荒唐的概念，嗯，那已经发生了，现在就在发生。对，对，现在。对，好吧，我知道嵌入式芯片里有病毒，对吧，比如人们，他们植入了芯片，然后感染了病毒。好吧，我说的是我的诗句，我说的是，比如一种，一种影响人们思想的概念。哦，好的，好的，比如，呃，邪教式思维，或者……对，某种原教旨主义。对，就是错误的观念，它在观念层面传播开来。[音乐] 好吧，那也是，那也是个问题，对吧？

如果有人能操纵那种技术，让某个东西显得符合逻辑或理性。对，对。那会不会……这也会是个问题，这是一个非常严重的有与没有的问题，对吧？一旦这个东西，如果，如果这真的确实，我的意思是，最初它会帮助受伤的人，而且……但你，你说它最终可能会带来这种惊人的认知变化。是的。但最先获得它的人应该会比还没有它的人拥有巨大的优势。好吧，我的意思是，它属于那种能让你的生产力提升的东西，我不知道，大幅提升，也许提高到10倍，所以你完全可以只是，你知道，呃，我不知道，借笔贷款来做这件事，然后非常快地把，把钱赚回来。所以你就超级聪明了。好吧，在资本主义

社会里，你知道，你可以……似乎你真的可以领先那么远，以至于在其他所有人都能负担得起这个东西，也连接起来并接入之前，你就已经遥遥领先，他们永远都追不上你。这是个令人担忧的问题吗？呃，好吧，我认为这，这并不是一个超级巨大的担忧。我的意思是，认知能力和，而且资源方面已经存在巨大差异了。对。嗯，我的意思是，你可以把一家公司看作一个控制论集体，呃，它比单个人聪明得多。比如我，我个人可以制造，比如一整枚火箭，还有，还有发动机，并发射它，以及所有一切，那是不可能的。呃，但你知道，我们 SpaceX 有8000人，而你可能，你知道，把它拆分给不同的人，嗯，并且使用，比如，你知道，计算机和机器

之类的东西，我们可以制造许多火箭，发射以及所有，但卡在空间站，那类事情，你知道。嗯，所以那种情况已经存在了，也就是这个，你知道，就是公司远比个人更有能力。嗯，但，但是，比如我认为我们应该少担心一些人与人之间的相对能力，而更多担心，呃，AI 远远，你知道，超越我们，并且与人类意志脱钩。与人类脱钩。所以这就是，如果你打不过他们，就加入他们。对，我的意思是，所以你觉得这是不可避免的，比如有知觉的 AI 本质上不可避免。超级有知觉的 AI。对，比如超越了一个难以理解，而且可能不可能理解的层次。而且不知怎么地我们……所以它几乎就像是一项要求

为了生存，实现某种与 AI 共生的存在状态，这并不是一项要求，只是，嗯，如果你，如果你想一路参与其中，那么你就需要实现某种共生。所以，你的大脑现在的运作方式是，你有，呃，有点像动物脑、爬行动物脑之类的，我们姑且说它基本上就像边缘系统；然后你还有皮层。嗯，现在，大脑方面的纯粹主义者会反对这个定义，但本质上，你有原始脑，也有那种聪明脑，或者说能够规划、理解概念和各种困难的、你知道，猴子无法理解的事物的大脑。嗯，现在，你的皮层比你的奥林匹克系统聪明得多得多。嗯，尽管如此，它们还是协同工作的。

嗯，所以我还没遇到过任何想删除奥林匹克系统或大脑皮层的人，人们很乐意两者都有，嗯，所以你可以把这个看成就像计算机，AI 就像是一个，一个第三层，一个第三级层，所以那就像是，它可以与大脑皮层共生，它会比大脑皮层聪明得多，但你基本上会有3层，而且其实你现在就已经有了，你的手机能做一些事，你的计算机也能做一些你的大脑绝对做不到的事，你知道，完美存储你的数TB信息，嗯，进行不可思议的计算，而那些计算你，你知道，我们甚至完全无法接近，你通过计算机就拥有这些能力，只是像我说的，数据速率很慢，连接很弱，为什么这这么令人不安

或者为什么会这样，为什么想到这件事无法让我安心，比如当我想到与 AI 的共生连接时，我总会想到我们会变成这种冰冷、没有感情的某种东西，这样看有问题吗？我不认为那是，不是，那不太对，不会是那样，就像我说的，你，你已经是了，是的，与 AI 或计算机共生，手机、计算机、笔记本电脑，是的，而且其中正在进行相当多的 AI 运作，你知道，附近，所以人工神经网络，嗯，神经网络正越来越多地在某种程度上取代常规编程，所以你已经连接上了，嗯，你知道，如果你使用谷歌语音或 Alexa 或其中某种东西，它就在使用神经网络解码你的语音，并尝试理解你在说什么，嗯，你知道，如果，如果你

试图进行图像识别或提升照片质量，它，它使用神经网络，这是做这件事的最佳方式，所以，嗯，你已经，呃，算是一个，算是一个控制论共生体了，就像说过的，你，当那，那只是你的数据速率问题，你的，你的，你的手机与你的大脑之间的通信速度很慢。你觉得你什么时候会做？你会等多久？嗯，比如一旦它开始变得可用。对，如果它有效，我就会做，当然。马上。我是说，先确保它有效。我们怎么确保它有效？拿囚犯试验吗，比如你会怎么做？不，不，你拿强奸犯，不，在你脑袋上开洞。现在就像我说的，如果某人有严重的脑损伤，对吧，嗯，尽管，你知道，人们有比如非常严重的脑损伤

嗯，然后，然后你可以修复那些，那些脑损伤，嗯，而且你知道，然后你证明它确实有效，再扩大范围，扩大并制造越来越多的脑损伤，呃，售出越来越多，嗯，而且那，你知道，突然到了某个年龄，我们所有人都将，将患上阿尔茨海默病，我们所有人都会变得衰老痴呆，嗯，然后，你知道，妈妈们会忘记自己孩子的名字之类的，所以你知道，就像你说的，好吧，你知道，这会让你记住你的名字、你的孩子，而且，而且，而且拥有正常的，一种正常得多的生活，让你，你，你能够在人生后期很久仍然正常生活，嗯，所以我认为那，所以基本上，如果，如果你活得足够老，几乎每个人都会在某个时刻发现有使用你的 Neuralink 的需要，而且

而且，而且然后就像，好吧，所以我们可以改进功能并提高通信、通信速度，这样你就不必用拇指与计算机交流了。你有没有坐下来推演，你有没有比如坐下来思考过这件事所有不同的迭代，以及它最终会带来什么？嗯，有，我是说，我想当然会想很多，嗯，就像我说的，这不是某种会悄悄降临到你头上的东西，你知道，就像让这些东西获得 FDA 批准，并不是一夜之间的事，你知道，嗯，而且这，我是说，我们很可能必须做到比如第10版之类的，然后，你知道，它才会现实地成为，嗯，你知道，一种人类与 AI 共生的情形，所以你会看到它到来，你知道，你会看到

它到来，但你觉得那会是什么样？当你坐着，当你独处时，如果你有空闲时间，我不知道你有没有空闲时间，但如果你只是坐下来思考这次迭代、下一次、继续往前，并且你，你把它向外延伸，沿途不断改进，并取得突飞猛进的进步和技术创新，那你认为它会走到哪里？从现在起20、25年后，我们会是什么样？我们会成为什么？嗯，假设文明仍然存在，嗯，它现在看起来很脆弱，嗯，我想我们，我想我们在25年内可能会有某种，我想类似那样的东西，它可能会是一个全脑接口。一个全脑接口，抱歉，非常接近那个，是的。怎么，怎么定义？你说的全脑接口是什么意思？嗯，比如

几乎所有神经元都连接到，呃，你是你自身的某种 AI 延伸，如果你想要的话。你自身的 AI 延伸。对你来说这是什么意思，比如当你说你自身的 AI 延伸时？嗯，你，就像我说的，你的手机已经是你自身的计算机延伸了，你知道，还有计算机之类的，所以，而现在在网上，就像某人死了，会有这个类似网络幽灵的东西，他们，他们的网络内容仍然存在。对，它还活着。这个说法很好。当你在人死后读到某人的推文时，确实很奇怪。对，对，还有 Instagram 和他们的动态之类的。对，无论什么，Facebook，在里面，你知道，比如，这个说法很棒，就像一个网络幽灵，非常准确。对，所以，对，所以会有，它就只会是那个，那个

我猜，你会有更多部分存在于云端，而不是你的身体里。更多部分，更多的你。哇。现在，当你说文明很脆弱时，你是指因为现在正在发生的这个“卡维特19”吗？那是什么？我从没听说过。就是这个东西。对，不，它就像，呃，有些人只是拿到一张卡，其他人则严重得多。呃，当然，对。嗯，对，我是说，这无疑在某种程度上占据了世界的玛雅空间，程度相当惊人。对，嗯，它凭空出现，这才是疯狂之处。就像你回到11月，什么都没有，现在我们到了12月、1月、2月、3月、4月、5月，6个月，完全不同的世界。所以从什么都没有，到一切都封锁了，对于该如何继续，存在如此多，呃，相互冲突的信息和相互冲突的观点，什么

发生了什么？你，你发现有些情况，我相信密苏里州有一家肉类加工厂，那里有300多人无症状检测呈阳性，或者无症状，然后在其他地方，它却肆虐整个社区并导致人员死亡，而且这，这太奇怪了，从外表看，它几乎像是，如果你什么都不了解，你会说，什么？看起来像是有一堆不同的病毒，看起来不像是同一种东西，或者说它对人类的生物多样性产生了一堆不同的反应。对，嗯，我是说，我算是在这整件事于美国上演之前，就看着它在中国完整上演了，所以，嗯，这有点像又看了一遍同一部电影，只不过是英语版，嗯，所以，对，嗯，我可能，我认为这个，这个，这个，这个死亡率要低得多

比，比比如世界卫生组织所说的要低，它非常模块资产，可能至少低一个数量级。嗯，它似乎对非常特定类型的人以及有特定问题的人来说非常致命。对，我是说，如果你，你可以查看死亡率统计数据，你知道，按年龄，以及他们是否有共病、共病症，比如他们是否基本上有既有疾病，还有，嗯，按年龄，嗯，还有，呃，你知道，如果你不到60岁，而且，而且没有严重的健康问题，死亡概率就极低，它不是0，但极低。不过他们刚开始封锁这个国家时，并不认为情况是这样。你觉得这是不是一种情况，一旦他们以某种

这种情况下很难纠正方向，就像人们真的很想恐慌，你知道，相当、相当疯狂。但在某些地方，恐慌是有道理的，对吧，比如如果你在曼哈顿的重症监护室里，人们接二连三地死去，所有人都插着管，而且这、这看起来就像，当你看到所有这些人都在用呼吸机，其中这么多人正在死去，你看到这些护士正在死去，医生也在生病，在某些地方，这种恐惧是合理的。但在其他地方，你读到的报道却说，医院基本上有一半是空的，他们、他们不得不让医生和护士休假，因为没有工作给他们做。美国现在的大多数医院有一半是空的，有些医院处于30的容量水平。

这是因为他们决定放弃选择性医疗程序，以及人们通常需要去医院处理的事情吗？是的，我的意思是，我们说的不只是，有些所谓的选择性医疗程序其实相当重要，比如，就像你得了很多病。对，当然。而且你需要做，你知道，三重搭桥手术，这算是某种选择性的，但如果你没有及时做，你就会死。对，“选择性”是个奇怪的词。对，选择性的，这不是说，嘿，我、我想要……这不像整形手术，更像是，比如我的、我的髋部让我极度疼痛，因为我的、我的髋关节坏了，或者我的膝盖坏了，而我不想去医院，我不能去医院，你知道，那些极度疼痛的人，那些需要一个肾脏的人，你知道，比如那些人。

有相当严重的问题，却因为恐惧而选择不出门。嗯，所以我认为这、这是个问题，这不好。公众认知的状态似乎正在转变，就像人们开始深呼吸并放松下来，因为从统计数据来看，我的意思是，基本上各方面都承认，它并没有我们原先以为的那么致命。仍然危险，仍然比流感更严重，但没有我们原先以为或担心的那么糟糕。我的意思是，客观来说，死亡率要低得多，至少低10倍，或许低50倍，比最初设想的要低。你认为我们目前处理这件事的方式，保持社交距离、群众、封锁，这有道理吗？这足够吗？还是你认为……

我们应该回到至少更接近过去的状态？嗯，我认为无论如何，保持适当的卫生习惯都是好事，你知道，洗手，还有，你知道，如果你、如果你在咳嗽，就待在家里或者戴口罩。这不好，你知道。嗯，就像他们在日本那样，这很正常，如果你、如果你生病了，你、你就戴上口罩，不要对着别人咳嗽。我认为，总体而言，在全世界采用这种做法会是一件很好的事。嗯，洗手也是好事。嗯，有种推测认为，这就是男性比女性更容易感染的原因，因为男人很恶心，而我们不看那种恶心的东西。是真的，是真的。对，这个房间里我们全是男人，我们都很邋遢。对，我们去洗手间，你能看到我们。是的，我们很邋遢。我的女儿……

我9岁的女儿会冲我喊，她会说，你洗手了吗，她会让我回去洗手。嗯，她是对的，9岁。如果我有一个9岁的儿子，你觉得他会在乎吗？如果我洗没洗手，我才不在乎。确实。嗯，所以是的，我认为这里肯定有一些好的一面，比如改善了，呃，你知道，呃，卫生状况。是的。以及对潜在可能的认识。是的。而且我认为这震动了这个，这个体系，呃，体系就像是与啦啦的层层官僚机构有着某种更多的纽带，而我认为我们已经破除了一些官僚主义，呃，而且如果我们，你知道，在某个时候，很可能会出现一场，呃，死亡率很高的疫情，呃，关于多高才算高还存在争论，但我的意思是，比如某种正在杀死很多20岁

的人，假设它是这样，是的，如果死亡率像埃博拉那样，西班牙流感，某种，呃，给健康人的免疫系统造成负担的东西。是的，是的。嗯，是的，但它是一个，是的，就像，就像杀死大量年轻健康的人，那就是，你知道，把它定义为，呃，呃，高死亡率，那么这至少是对那种事情的一次演练。嗯，而且我认为有这样一个，你知道，鉴于这只是时间问题，最终会出现某种、某种这样的疫情，你是否认为，从某种意义上说，我们可能从中得到的一件好事，就是意识到这是一种潜在的现实，而我们在这个意义上很幸运？我的意思是，当然，那些没有这么幸运并且死去的人，我不是在不尊重他们的死亡和他们遭受的损失，但我是说，从整体上看

作为一种，作为一种文化，作为一个社群，作为人类，作为一个社群，这并没有它原本可能的那么糟。这对我们来说是一次很好的预演，让我们意识到，我们需要投入多得多的资源来了解这些疾病，了解疫情发生时该怎么办，还需要投入多得多的资金来资助治疗方法以及一些预防措施。是的，完全正确。嗯，而且我认为，我认为很有可能，我认为极有可能，在这之后，我们将会研发出，呃，我们以前没有的疫苗，用于，呃，《古兰经》病毒和其他、其他病毒。嗯，而且，而且可能还有针对这些病毒的疗法，而我们对，呃，这类病毒的了解已经因为它所受到的关注而显著提升。所以肯定有一些

你知道，这里有很多不幸中的万幸，嗯，而且如果我们采取正确行动的话，可能会……对，对，对，我觉得无论如何这里都会有一些光明，嗯，希望这可以是更多专业性的光明，而不是更少。对，嗯，所以，是的，这就像是……这有点像是为某种事情进行的一次演练，那种事情曾有、曾有一种可能性，未来可能会具有严重的，呃，比如非常高的死亡率，而我们算是得以经历这次演练，同时它并不是某种会杀死，你知道，大量年轻健康人群的东西。对。你最近发了一系列推文，呃，你知道，呃，我不记得确切措辞了，但本质上你是在说“现在解放美国”，比如让我们想想这个，是不是，谢谢，但是

呃，这个，这个，你知道，当时是什么情况——你有多关注人们对那些东西的反应，反应又是怎样的？有没有人说：“嘿，埃隆，你他妈在干什么？”有没有人把你拉到一边？谁会这么做？谁有资格这样对你？嗯，我是说，我当然会收到那些反馈，Twitter 上从来不缺负面反馈，你知道。哦，对，Twitter。对，但我不看那些。你会看吗？战区。有时候你确实会看，对吧？你确实会看。对，我是说，翻看评论，就像把它当成一个梗，战区。对，我是说，人们捅刀子，你没事。我喜欢这一点，就是……所有这些确实会攻击你的人所带来的那种表达自由，其中有某种东西。就像，嗯，如果完全不存在任何脆弱性，他们就不会

攻击你，而且这些数以百万又数以百万计的视角，其中有某种东西是你……你必须、你必须欣赏的，即使它冲你而来，即使风暴迎面击中你。当然。你得欣赏：哇，这所有人都有表达自己的能力，这是多么惊人。你未必想在它击中你的时候待在那里。当然。你可能想预见到风暴并躲开，但这么多人都有能力伸出手这个事实，我认为在很多方面，这……呃，我不想说它是一种被误用的资源，但这就像给猴子枪一样，它们就开始……开始向面前的东西开枪，完全意识不到自己在做什么。它们有一块石头，它们

看到一扇窗户，就把它扔过去。哇，看看，我让埃隆生气了。看看，这家伙被我惹生气了。这个，这个，我……我在 Twitter 上搞垮了这个人。我害这个女士被解雇了。哦，这家公司因为 Twitter 大战要倒闭了。这里面似乎有某种东西，这是个新出现的事物，呃，我想说是滥用，但只是……我想说，这几乎就像，你知道，你按下按钮，然后东西爆炸了，你就会说：“哇，还能炸掉什么？”当然。嗯，我是说，我已经身处 Twitter 战区有、有一段时间了，所以，置身你的战区，你知道，到现在为止，得发生很多事才能让我慌乱。对，这也很好，对吧？比如你变得更能承受批评了。对。你不能把它当成针对个人，这些人其实并不了解你，你知道，比如，对，这

就像，你知道，所以这就像，如果你……如果你在打仗，对面有个士兵朝你开、朝你开枪，这并不意味着他们恨你，他们甚至根本不认识你，对吧？对，对。所以就把它想成那样，就像他们在发射子弹之类的，嗯，但他们不认识你，所以别把它当成针对个人。这里面也有些有意思的地方，就像，呃，比如你用，你知道，280 个字符写了一些东西，他们又往里面写了一些东西，这是一种非常粗糙的方式。就像，你知道，有人在发送反向烟雾信号，反驳你的烟雾信号，就像，它太粗糙了，尤其是当你谈论 Neuralink 这样的东西时。他谈的是未来的某种潜力，到时候你将能够

表达纯粹的思想，这些思想通过某种通用语言传达，完全不存在任何歧义，而与之相对的是，你知道，推文。嗯，总会存在一些歧义，不过，是的，推文很难。嗯，比如，也许应该有个讽刺标记之类的，你知道。对，对。嗯，或者“我不是……”，你知道，“只是开玩笑”之类的，你知道，比如别……你知道，这似乎会夺走那些知道这是讽刺的人的一些乐趣。比如，如果所有人都知道《洋葱报》不是真的，如果你给别人发文章。对，有人因为一篇《洋葱报》的文章生气，这里面有些东西——哇，太惊人了，你明白我的意思吧？他们没意识到那是什么。对其他所有人来说，这里面有些乐趣。呃，对，我知道，确实很棒。

它可能是最好的新闻来源。你知道 Titania McGrath 是谁吗？希拉里奥。那是，呃，安德鲁·博伊尔，他是一个，呃，英国人，一个很有才华的人，以前上过这个播客。他有这个，呃，虚构角色，这个，呃，笔名 Titania McGrath，她就像是这个……所有终极社会正义战士。这就像……像一个女性化身吗？一个女性化身，实际上是由一堆面孔在电脑上组合而成的。好吧。她并不真的是某一个人，所以不会有某一个人能成为受害者并感到愤怒。他算是把这些面孔组合起来，制造出这一个完美的社会正义更多。好吧。但问题是，我很早就认出来了，在我见到他之前。当然。这是戏仿，这只是为了好玩。然后我喜欢看那些没认出来的人的反应，他们会生气。

当然，然后他们真的、真的很，像是，有很多人会对其中一些乐趣感到非常愤怒。当然。其中有一些乐趣，有一些乐趣来自没有领会到那个、那个、那个信号的真实本质。我觉得 Twitter 很吸引人。你怎么有时间？嗯，我是说，就像每隔几个小时花5分钟那种。又不是说我坐在一个旧日子上。但即便是每隔几个小时的5分钟，如果那是糟糕的5分钟，它们也可能在接下来的30里一直在你脑子里蹦来蹦去。

对，你必须，你知道，就像我说的，保持一定距离。你读到这些，然后你会想，好吧，这就像敌军射来的子弹，你知道，别在意。不是说他们，他们喜欢……所以并不是说他们了解你，别往心里去。嗯，当 CNN 就呼吸机的事对你作出那种愚蠢报道时，你也有同样的感觉吗？我，我觉得那既令人困惑，又……那个，那个，那个，对，那很烦人。确实很烦人。但同样令人烦恼的是，作为一个会看 CNN、并希望把他们视为负责任的事实传递者的人，我愿意相信……对，我不认为 CNN 是那样的。我觉得它以前是。以前是，对。嗯，比如你认为外面最好的、就是那种信息来源是什么？这是个好问题。

你知道，比如说，你只是一个普通公民，只想了解事实，你知道，弄清楚发生了什么，比如，你知道该如何生活，而且，你知道，只是想看看世界上正在发生什么。很难找到某种不是，你知道，就是……就是好的东西。对。你知道，呃，就是不试图推动某种党派立场，不试图……不是那种草率报道，也不只以获得最多点击量为目标，不试图让广告收入最大化之类的。对。你只是想弄清楚发生了什么。就像，我很难说你该去哪里。我不知道。我觉得不存在任何纯粹的形式。我最喜欢的是《纽约时报》和《洛杉矶时报》，但我并不信任

它们 100%，你知道，因为撰写这些报道的也是一个个具体的人。没错。而问题似乎就在于这些个人偏见，以及这些个人……有被故意扭曲的认知，也有因无知而报道出来的事实，而且变量太多了。你必须把所有事情都放进这样一个过滤器里：这个人是从什么立场出发的？他们有没有政治偏见？有没有社会偏见？他们是不是……是不是因为自身的不足而感到不满？他们是不是把这种情绪投射进报道里？当然。太难了。对，我觉得，或许只能试着寻找你认为优秀的个别记者。对。然后有点倒下去，而不是看出版机构。马特·泰比说什么，我就听什么。好吧。我信任……

比任何人都更听他的。好吧，马特·泰比，他发现了些什么。我只是，他就调查记者而言，尤其是他报道储蓄与贷款危机的方式，他报道一切的方式，我只是，我只是比大多数人更听他的，比大多——他是我的首选。好吧，我会去看看，呃，是《滚石》的文章，或者他关于“储蓄独自危机”的材料，就像到底什么，而且你知道，而且他不是，你知道，他绝不是经济学家，所以他必须真正以某种方式深深扎进那个世界，努力理解它并且能够对它进行报道，而且还带着一种幽默的风格。目前这挺好。是啊，嗯，是啊，但他们没有那么多人，这很难，而且不像我们所在的地方。不，那是。

对，你知道，我们不扯淡。

com，就像是唯一一个你可以说这是我们知道的、这是我们不知道的、这是我们认为的地方，而不是说这个人错了以及原因是什么，就像，哦，该死，你知道，我不能，你，你不知道，有很多事情都有解释的余地。是的，我们目前正在应对的这个特定的新冠病毒问题，似乎极好地揭示了那个事实，也就是有这么多数据，而且有这个，所以有太多东西有待解释，有这么多事情，因为这一切都在实时发生，对吧，而且尤其是现在在加利福尼亚州，我们明天进入第2阶段，或者周五，也就是从现在起2天，进入第2阶段，零售店开门，情况正在变化，就像没人知道需要采取什么正确流程。

才能挽救最多的生命，但同时确保我们的、我们的文化以及我们的、我们的、我们的经济存续下去。这其中有很多推测和猜想，但如果你去某些地方，他们会告诉你，我们知道原因，我们知道这个，我们知道，呃，这很难。是啊，我是说，我总体认为，就像我们应该担心，嗯，任何对我们公民、公民自由的大规模侵犯。是的，你知道，所以就像你必须非常重视这一点，嗯，你知道，人们，很多人为了，你知道，为国家赢得独立，并且为我们拥有的民主而战，献出了生命，而且，呃，你知道，我们应该珍惜它，而不是、不是太轻易地放弃我们的自由。我觉得我们已经，我们，我是说，我觉得我们其实很可能已经那么做了。嗯，我喜欢……

说过的话，当时你说这应该是一种选择，而要求人们待在家里、要求人们不去工作、要求，而且逮捕那些试图谋生的人，这一切似乎都是错的，我认为这是错误的做法。这是一种，这是，呃，你，你这是在把社会幼儿化，让爸爸来告诉你该做什么。从根本上违反宪法。是的，集会自由，而且你知道，这只是，我是说，我觉得这些事情真的经不起法庭审查。他们在逮捕抗议者。是啊，是啊，因为他们在抗议并违反社交距离规定，以及这些命令人们必须待在家里的命令。是的，这些，这些肯定经不起，呃，你知道，如果最高法院。

这里，我是说，这显然是彻底的侵犯，对吧？是啊，是啊，而且再说一次，这绝不是，嗯，对那些因这种疾病而去世的人的不尊重。那当然是一件需要考虑的真实事情。是啊，我是说，它，它，它只是应该，如果，如果你，如果你面临风险，就不应该强迫你离开家，对吧，嗯，或者离开安全的地方。但你也不应该被，呃，如果你没有面临风险，或者如果你确实面临风险但希望拿自己的生命冒险，你应该有权这样做。而且在目前这个时间点，尤其是把我们的资源用来保护面临风险的人，似乎会比惩罚那些风险不高、按他们原来的方式生活的人更合适，尤其是拥有一份事业并且，并且。

谋生、养家、支付账单、让你的商店继续营业、让你的餐厅继续营业。是的，我是说，这件事有，有一个严重的、严重的负面影响。是啊，所以，是啊，我只是相信，就像，你知道，如果这是一个自由国家，你应该被，你知道，被允许去做，你知道，你想做的事，只要它不会危及他人。但问题就在这里，对吧，人们会提出这样的论点，比如你正在危及他人，你应该为了那些人待在家里，那些你，即使你没事，即使你知道自己会没事，也有某些人会因为你的行为而无法安然无恙。他们可能会接触到这个我们没有疫苗、没有获得普遍认可的治疗方法的东西，然后我们需要。

去加……这里有两种观点，对吧。一种观点是，我们需要继续前进，保护弱者，保护病人，但让我们重启经济。另一种观点是，不要把金钱置于人的生命之上，让我们就地避难，直到我们得出某种决定，再想出某种办法，制定某种全民收入、全民基本收入计划或类似的东西，在我们完成这一转变的这段时间里养活人们。我认为这里有一个……是的，嗯，就像我说的，对吧，是的，我的看法是，如果有人想待在家里，他们就应该待在家里，而如果某个东西不想待在家里，他们就不应该被强迫待在家里。这就是我的看法。你觉得如果有人不喜欢这样……好吧，这就是我的看法，嗯。

所以现在，是的，嗯，这种观念，就是，呃，你知道，你可以就这样给每个人寄支票，然后一切都会好起来，这显然不是真的。嗯，有些人抱有这种荒谬的看法，认为经济就像某种神奇的丰饶之角，好像它就是会制造东西，东西，你知道，不管是什么，它就是有一枚神奇的丰饶硬币，商品和服务就来自这个神奇的丰饶角落。然后如果，嗯，比如说某个人拥有的东西比另一个人多，那是因为他们从这个神奇的丰饶角落里拿得更多。现在让我，呃，告诉外面的那些傻瓜：如果你不制造东西，就没有东西。是的，所以如果你不生产食物，如果你不加工食物，你知道，不运输食物，还有什么，不管……

你知道，医疗，修好你的牙齿，就没有东西。我变得脱离现实。你不能只是立法创造金钱，然后解决这些问题。如果你不制造东西，就没有东西。显然，我们会耗尽，商店会耗尽那些，你知道，整个机器就会慢慢停摆。但最初对于这种病毒的想法，真正的恐惧是，它会在这个国家瞬间杀死数十万人，甚至数百万人。如果我们不躲起来，如果我们不就地避难，如果我们不隔离自己或实施封锁，它就会很快做到这一点。你认为，基于当时认为它会比后来实际情况致命得多的认知，最初的想法是个好主意吗……

也许是吧。我认为短暂地，短暂地，短暂地是，但，呃，我认为，如果你知道，对中国发生的事情进行任何一种理性的审视，都会得出结论，那显然不会发生。呃，这种病毒起源于武汉，每天大概有，我不知道，10万人离开，所以它，它，它，呃，很快就传遍了各地，传遍中国，传遍世界其他地区。嗯，而且死亡率很低。不过你不觉得吗，要理解这一点很困难，要过滤来自中国的信息，很难准确地真正了解实际发生了什么。宣传机器非常强大。当然，世界卫生组织似乎已经……

一直在配合他们的很多宣传。问题是，美国公司在中国拥有庞大的供应链，比如Tesla，我们在中国各地有数百家供应商，比如一级、二级、三级、四级供应商。所以我们知道他们是否有能力生产东西。我们知道他们是否有问题。然后他们，他们，中国已经恢复，恢复全速运转，嗯，而且直到很多，呃，几乎每个美。

……的公司在中国有相当数量的苍蝇，所以，你知道，你知道，他们是否能够，你知道，提供东西，或者是否存在，你知道，很高的死亡率。Tesla在中国有7000人，所以有0人死亡。嗯，0人。好，所以那是一个真实的统计数据，来自……是的，是的，你认识那些人。是的，我们实际上……我们在发工资。你认为这存在同样那些人的危险吗？他们在那里。是的。你认为将这件事政治化存在危险吗？也就是说，重启这个国家是，呃，唐纳德·特朗普的……这是他的目标，这是他的，然后他做的任何事情都会有点，呃，会有人反对，并提出一些理由说明他为什么错，尤其是在这种氛围下，而随着我们临近11月……

以及，你知道，2020年选举，你认为，就公众的看法而言，这是否是一个真正的危险：特朗普想要重启，所以他们出于本能反对，因为他们反对特朗普？我，我认为有一些政治人物……这件事已经被政治化了，你知道，实际上两个方向都是如此，所以这，嗯，不太好。是的，但就像我说的，撇开这一点，我认为还有一个问题，比如，你知道，各项公民自由在这幅图景中处于什么位置，你知道。是的。而且，呃，政府能强迫你做什么，能强迫你不做什么，以及什么，你知道，什么是可以接受的，对吧。嗯，而且，呃，是的，我认为我们做过头了。你认为这是那种一旦我们朝某个方向走了，就很难作出……

纠正，作出一项……调整，从而意识到，好吧，我们原以为它是一回事，但它不是。它并不好，但它不是我们原以为它会变成的样子，也不是我们所害怕的那样。所以让我们，让我们后退一步，重新考虑。让我们公开这样做，并说，我们是根据最初掌握的信息采取行动的，那些信息似乎有误，而，呃，接下来我们要这样向前推进，同时保护公民自由，同时保护这个国家本质上赖以建立的东西，也就是一种得到高度认同的自由。是的，我们尊重并珍视这种自由。完全正确。好吧，我认为我们正在迅速走向重启这个国家。嗯，这将在接下来的几周内极快地发生。所以，是的，有些事情会有帮助，只是从一个……补充一下。

信息层面是，嗯，在报告呃某种“covet”病例时，把确诊患有“covert”的人与呃出现过“covert”类似症状的人区分开，是的，因为到这个时候，可能属于“covered”的症状清单长得像有1英里，所以就像是，很难，如果你有任何不适，就像都可能是“covered”，所以只是只是为了给人们更好的信息，明确区分确诊患有“covert”还是出现过“covered”类似症状，我们正在把这两者混为一谈，所以那一个让它看起来比实际更严重，然后呃，如果有人死亡，“covert”是不是死亡的一个一个主要原因，呃，我是说，如果，我是说，如果有人得了“kova”，又被鲨鱼吃了，我们找到他们的手臂，他们的手臂有“covered”，这就会被记录为一例“cover”死亡，这是真的吗，基本上没那么糟，但心脏病发作、中风

你被虫子撞了，癌症，如果你，如果你被公交车撞了，去去医院然后死亡，接着发现你有“covered”，你会被记录为一例“cover”死亡，不过他们为什么要那么做，好吧，现在，所以你知道，道路就是地狱，“rotel”是用善意支付的，我是说，它大多是用恶意支付的，但里面也有，你知道，一些善意的“saving stones”，嗯，而且那那那项旨在帮助呃那些被被被“code”患者挤爆的医院的刺激法案，呃，产生了一种把某件事记录成“covet”的激励，这种激励很难拒绝，特别是如果你的医院因为缺少其他患者而正在破产，所以医院现在进退两难，有一大批医院

它们在跟随医生，正如你提到的，它们，你知道，它们的你是半满的，你的，维持收支平衡很难很难，所以现在你就像，你知道，如果我只勾选这个框，我就能拿到8000美元，接上呼吸机5分钟，我就能拿回39000美元，或者或者我得解雇一些医生，所以这是什么，这这是一道艰难的道德难题，就像你能做什么，这就是我们面临的情况，不，什么，摆脱这个局面的办法是什么，你认为就像，如果如果你能在总统耳边说话，或者如果人们愿意坦率地听你说，你认为摆脱这个局面的办法是什么，所以让我们，让我们把数据理清楚，把数据理清楚，所以就像我说的，呃，某件事应该被规定为“code”，但只有当它是呃某个人

接受过检测，呃，收到了阳性、阳性的“cover”检测结果，而不是仅仅有症状，像100种症状中的1种，然后如果如果这是一例“cover”死亡，就必须区分开来，或者说，“coveted”是不是死亡的主要、主要原因，还是他们同时患有3期癌症、心脏病、肺气肿，又被公交车撞了，并且有“covered”，是的，我读过所有这些东西，关于他们呃不顾其他变量把人诊断为“covet”死亡，这不是一个，这不是一个，这不是一个问题，这就是正在发生的事，而你是从哪里读到这些的，你从哪里得到这些的，公共卫生、卫生官员确实说过这个，这不是，这不是一个问号，对，但这从未，这史无前例，对，就像如果某个人

得了流感，但也心脏病发作，他们会认为那个人死于心脏病发作，是的，是的，所以这是史无前例的，这是因为这是一个如此一个受欢迎的，我不，我不想错误地使用那个词，但这就是我的意思，一个热门话题以及经济激励，是的，而且像，所以这并不是某种对某种医院管理人员的道德谴责，只是他们身处其中，他们，他们处于一个艰难的，一个艰难的处境，嗯，他们实际上没有足够的耐心去支付每个人的费用，从而，在不跟随、跟随医生以及以及解雇员工的情况下，而且是的，他们正面临可能破产，所以，所以然后他们就像，好吧，刺激法案说，如果你知道，如果我们把所有这些，你知道，钱拿到，如果我们

说如果，如果他们，如果这是一例“cover”死亡，我就像，好吧，他们死前咳嗽了，事实上他们甚至没有被诊断为“cover”，他们只是，如果你有乏力、咳嗽，呃，呼吸急促，但坦率地说，我不确定你怎么能在没有这些情况的情况下死亡，是的，你，是的，但有太多不同的东西也可以归因于“covet”，症状太多了，有腹泻、头痛、脱水，是的，咳嗽，是的，但说清楚，你，你甚至不需要得到一张“cover”图表，你只需要曾经有过许多症状中的1种，然后由于某种原因死亡，它就是“covered”，所以这就让死亡人数看起来非常高，然后我们就陷入了困境，因为死亡人数看起来超级高，而且没有像它应该的那样下降，而且

现在，所以然后我们，我们应该保留任何，你知道，保留，你知道，就地避难之类的措施，并且把人们留在家里，你知道，把人们限制在家中，所以我们需要摆脱这个，这个，我们陷在一个循环里，是的，而且我认为摆脱这个循环的办法是让信息清晰，信息清晰肯定会有帮助，但要改变观念，改变那些基本上处于恐慌中的人的公众观念，基本上有很多，嗯，至少1个月前，我们显然处于恐慌之中，我是说，对，当你看看4月5日、4月6日时，人们真的吓坏了，但现在我们到了5月，而且5月人们放松了一点，是的，他们正在意识到，就像，嘿，嗯，我实际上认识几个人感染了它，它

只是一阵咳嗽，而且我认识一些感染了它但什么都没发生的人，我认识很多感染了它的人，我认识的死亡人数是0，我是说，大约没有，是的，很多人感染了它，是的，它，它不是我们所害怕的那样，我们害怕的是严重得多的东西，是的，没错，所以这种调整很难做，所以你说，首先我们需要真实的数据，我们需要只是，只是把数据拆分开，不要，不要全混在一起，不，然后如果，如果你给，如果你让人们只是更好地拆分数据，更清楚、更清晰的信息，嗯，关于，呃，就像我说的，这是不是一个诊断的实际“code”，还是它是一个，或者他们是否接受了检测且检测结果为阳性，还是他们只是有一些症状，只要把这两者拆分开，嗯，然后再拆分出，只是呃，如果有人死亡

他们死了吗，他们，他们甚至做过“covet”检测吗，还是，还是他们只是有很多症状中的一种，比如，比如，比如你怎么会在没有虚弱症状的情况下死去，我不知道，对吧，这基本上不可能。是啊，这个观点很好。如果你快死了，你会呼吸急促、虚弱，而且可能会咳嗽一点，嗯，所以，所以这有量化吗，是什么情况？是啊，那个人，他们真的做过“covert”检测吗，而且，而且检测结果是阳性吗，然后，嗯，如果，如果他们死了，他们是否，呃，死的时候“covert”，嗯，它不必是主要过程，但它是导致他们死亡的重要因素，还是它对死亡并没有重要影响？对吧，这并不是仅仅因为你感染了“covet”，“covet”就杀死了你这么简单，绝对不是，对吧。是啊，是啊，我是说

人一直都会死，而且他们可能得了流感，还有，是的，你知道，其他感冒，而我们不会说他们死于那些流感和其他感冒。嗯，这正是非常奇怪的地方。绝对是。它太流行了，我用这个词的方式有点奇怪，但它太流行了，以至于我们有点忘了人们每天都会死于肺炎。是啊，人们会死于流感。流感可没有休息，说，哦，kovitz接手了，我这次就不参加了，我要坐冷板凳，我要等kovitz结束后再重新加入杀人的游戏。不，流感仍然在这里杀人。我的意思是，每年全世界有几十万人直接死于流感。是啊，不，不是间接相关，对吧，不是每个……去年这个国家有61 000人。是啊，而我们只占世界的5%。

然后还有香烟。所以，哦天啊，香烟，不，香烟真的会杀死你。这很奇怪，对吧？我们害怕这种疾病，据预测它今年可能会杀死100 000名、甚至200 000名美国人，而香烟杀死500 000人，你却听不到任何政客吭声。没有任何竞选国会议员的人试图禁烟，也没有任何竞选参议员的人想实施某种教育计划，把香烟扼杀在原地。是啊，我是说，很久以前，比如几年前，我是说，大约10，10年前，我帮忙制作了一部冷的电影《感谢你抽烟》。哦，我看过。是啊，嗯，它，它，是啊，嗯，是啊，这太疯狂了，呃，抽烟、烧烤，全都是坏消息。这不，不好，你知道，你正在把

你的肺变成烟、烟熏牛肉，不太妙。嗯，所以，嗯，顺便说一句，泰诺也杀死很多人。是啊，这边泰诺导致的死亡数字是多少？嗯，我不确定确切数字，但我相信，在阿片类药物危机之前，我相信泰诺是所有药物中的头号杀手。嗯，因为，哇，基本上它，呃，如果你，如果你喝醉了并服用大量泰诺，嗯，对乙酰氨基酚，本质上它会导致肝衰竭。所以塞维利亚会，比如喝得、喝得烂醉，然后，比如头疼，然后吞下一颗汤力泰诺花园，哇。是啊，落幕是个有趣的词。是啊，你知道，所以，但没有人会，比如，你知道，对泰诺大发雷霆。是啊，这很奇怪，被接受的死亡很奇怪，而这正是这件事真正的滑坡，呃，人们羞辱那些

想回去工作的人。你知道，其他人会死。好吧，如果你开车，你开车吗？哦，那你应该停止开车，因为有人会因开车而死。所以，你知道，你肯定应该填平所有游泳池，因为这个国家每天大约有50人死于游泳，所以我们别再游泳了。是啊，真正危险的是什么？我们需要砍掉所有椰子。椰子每年杀死150人。是的，把所有椰子树都砍掉。我们需要那些人。是的，到某个时间点，这就像是我们，是啊，我们很脆弱，而且我们也，我们也，无论做什么，我们的存在都是有限的。没有人能永远活着，对吧。嗯，我是说，这，这，这，我是说，我认为你应该把死亡看作，比如，如果没有这种，呃，疾病的话，不管是什么

他们本可以再活x年。是啊，你知道，所以，嗯，你知道，如果某人在，他们，他们，他们20岁时去世，本可以活到80岁，他们，他们损失了60年；但如果某人在80岁时去世，而他们可能活到81岁，他们维持了1年。是的。所以这就像，损失了多少生命年，呃，这大概是，你知道，应该使用的正确指标。我不，呃，读我自己的评论，但我确实会读其他人的评论，我当时在看Twitter上的一场小争吵，其中有人说kovid平均会让人的寿命缩短10年，而我们应该珍视那10年，然后另一个人说那不是真的。我肯定那不是真的。是啊，绝对是Twitter。但另一个人说，人们的平均年龄

死于新冠的人比人们死亡的平均年龄更老，这非常，假设就说它像是，它它大约是一样的，这是一个很美的看待方式，我是说，这很不幸，很糟糕，但如果爷爷死于阿尔茨海默病、肺气肿或白血病也很糟糕，很糟糕，当然，当你爱的人去世时很糟糕，是的，但我，我是说，实际上，如果，如果这个，呃，我认为这里可以汲取的一个教训，我认为这相当重要，就是如果，嗯，如果你有，你知道，你的曾祖父母以及他们的，他们的年龄，还有祖父母，真的要小心，呃，小心任何种类的流感或感冒或某种东西，那种对儿童或年轻人不会、并不危险，但也对帮助老年人是危险的，嗯，基本上，如果你的孩子流鼻涕了

他们无论如何都应该远离祖父母，这，这是，呃，这些事情是年轻的免疫系统应付起来毫无问题，而年老的免疫系统会，会有问题，是的，而且，嗯，事实上，许多，许多死亡病例就只是，简直是，这很悲惨，但它们，它们发生在家庭内部，嗯，是那个，那个，那个小小孩得了它，得了一个，你知道，感冒或流感，然后把它传给了爷爷，是啊，是啊，他们举行家庭聚会，却不知道这是件大事，但重要的是要记住，当你变老时，你的免疫系统就是没那么强，而且，呃，而且而且所以，对你的，对对你的，你知道，所爱的人或老年人要小心，我认为，对于免疫系统以及

增强那个免疫系统的方法，而且我真的认为，那那那些信息应该，应该以一种不带评判的方式传播，但就像，看，这是，这是一个我们大家都能采用的，就像，这是一个经科学证明的、我们能够增强免疫系统的方法，它也许能救你的命，也许能救你所爱的人的命，也许我们可以把这个教给我们的祖父母、我们的父母以及，以及那些脆弱的人，你知道，维生素C、热休克蛋白，所有这些我们知道有助于增强免疫系统的不同变量，是的，嗯，实际上只是，嗯，有一件事，那那是很困难的，呃，如果就像当你，随着你变老，它，它很难保持，你往往会增加体重，你知道，我当然，那正发生在

我身上，你知道，就像我年纪越大，我就越觉得，该死，保持精瘦更难了，呃，那是肯定的，嗯，而且，而且所以实际上，体重超重是，是件大事，是的，只是，呃，这是事实，呃，对，纽约的医院说，导致严重新冠症状的首要因素是肥胖，那是首要因素，就是那个，没错，正是这样，但同样，我们生活在一个人们希望照顾他人感受的世界里，所以，是的，当然，我们不想提起肥胖对你有害这个事实，这是对你的评判，食物很棒，是的，我确实喜欢食物，是啊，而且我是说，我是说，完全坦白地讲，就我自己而言，我，我宁愿吃美味的食物、活得短一些，是的，你知道，是的，那些享用美餐的时刻

是的，然后甚至谈起它们，它们是有价值的，它们值得一些东西，是的，这并不是，我们不想吃索伦特绿，然后活到160岁。

美味，如果它很棒，那就是生活中最美好的事情之一，确实如此，是的，它也是一种艺术形式，就像精致的食物，它是一个，它是一个，它是一个，它是一个美味的沙堡，它是暂时的，不会持续很久，但它有某种非常令人愉悦的东西，是啊，是啊，嗯，是啊，我是说，我，我不知道该给什么建议，比如，嗯，也许少一点，吃美味的食物，但分量少一点，是的，而且我认为限制进食时段确实是正确的做法，某种间歇性禁食的方法，当然，当我开始这样做时，我，我，我，我发现自己健康了很多，当我偏离这种做法时，我就长胖了，所以怎么，什么是，呃，16小时，嗯，16小时，是的，所以就像在晚上，还是，是啊，是啊，是啊，所以我到某个时间点，然后就开始计时

我通常，呃，按下手机上的秒表，然后我看到，呃，15小时，我就想，好吧，还有1小时我才能吃东西，是的，所以这期间的任何东西就只是水或咖啡，实际上你知道，比如，嗯，这对人们来说可能是一条有用的建议，但，呃，睡觉前吃东西真的是个很糟糕的主意，而且实际上会对你的睡眠产生负面影响，是的，嗯，它实际上可能会引起，呃，引起你甚至不知道正在发生的胃灼热，而那种轻微的胃灼热，呃，会影响你的睡眠，因为你，你是水平躺着的，而你的身体正在消化，所以如果你想改善睡眠质量，嗯，而且，而且，嗯，你知道，呃，你知道，更健康，呃，那就是，不要在我们马上要睡觉之前吃东西，是的，那就像是你能做的最糟糕的事情之一

我犯过一些我见过的最大的错误，我，我那样做过，呃，特别是在喜剧演出之后，我饿坏了，我会回家，然后吃东西，接着上床睡觉，我就只觉得，然后我会在半夜醒来，这会，这会摧毁你的睡眠，而且会，会损伤你的，呃，幽门、你的幽门括约肌和食管，而且它，它，它，所以事实上喝酒然后去睡觉，那是你能做的最糟糕的事情之一，是的，嗯，所以，呃，只要尽量避免饮酒，而且，而且你知道，嗯，少量酒精，有证据表明它并没有负面影响，我把它归在美味食物的同一类，它算是让事情变得更有趣一点，是啊，是啊，我喜欢，我是说，有些人，有些人

离开得最久的人，你知道，嗯，法国有一位女性，我想她也许保持着纪录，或者接近纪录，而她每天都喝一杯葡萄酒，每天，你知道，是啊，少量，少量是没问题的，嗯，但，嗯，是啊，这就像是一个，我，我到了人生相当晚的时候才明白这点，就像，只要避免饮酒，并且在睡觉前至少2或3小时避免进食，你的生活质量会，你的睡眠质量会改善，你的整体健康状况也会改善很多，肯定的，这是一个，这是件大事，而且我认为并没有广为人知，并没有广为人知，你有时间锻炼吗，嗯，一点点，嗯，你会训练之类的吗，嗯，我会，虽然我已经有一阵子没见了，但是，嗯，是的，尤其，是的，从外面比如，呃，你知道，比如我们正在研究星舰或者

南得克萨斯州的什么地方，我就住在我的，我在那里布库奇卡村有一栋小小的房子，嗯，我没什么事可做，所以我们就像，我在工作，我当时就想，老兄，举举重什么的吧，你知道，嗯，也许，呃，我我我好像，我不，有些人喜欢跑步，我不喜欢跑步。嗯，但你锻炼时喜欢做什么？嗯，说实话，如果可以的话，我根本不会锻炼，但如果，如果我，我宁愿不锻炼，但如果我要锻炼，你知道，就举举重，然后，嗯，然后算是在跑步机上跑步，也许看个节目，你知道，如果有一个很吸引人的节目，能把你吸引进去。对，对，对。是啊，那是件挺适合做的事。是啊，看一部好电影，或者，对，对，看一集《黑镜》什么的。

像那样，那太棒了，老兄。睡前也别看《黑镜》。好吧，今天别看《黑镜》，它太准确了。是啊，没错，就像，等等，这在现实生活中已经发生了。是啊，它们太接近了，太接近了。嗯，甚至，杰米，你是不是说过，制作《黑镜》的那个人麦克风关了，呃，对，对，他说他，现在不是开始第6季的好时候。是啊，他想先等等，因为现实，他说中了，这就是《黑镜》。噢，老兄，就像他得重新评估，然后从不同的角度着手。是啊，你应该试试某种做起来有趣的东西，不只是，比如学一门武术或类似的东西。我小时候练过武术。比如，你练过？你会不会，嗯，我练过跆拳道，我练过空手道，呃，凯卡。

申凯。好吧，酷。还有，嗯，柔道。嗯，而且，你涉猎得真广。是啊。嗯，所以，嗯，还短暂练过巴西柔术。你练过？是啊。在哪里？我在帕洛阿尔托做的。真的吗？是啊。噢，不，我正想建议那个，那对人们来说是很棒的东西，比如柔术就是这样，如果你从外面看，你会想，噢，一群四肢发达头脑简单的人在互相勒脖子。当然。但我认识的一些最聪明的人就是柔术迷，因为他们，他们接触它，首先，他们接触它通常是因为他们要么想锻炼，要么想学点自卫术，但接着他们会意识到，它本质上就像是用你的身体说一种语言，就像你在用某种肢体语言和某个人争论，而且它真的很复杂，而……

你能使用的词汇越多，你的措辞越犀利，当然，你在这些行动中就越容易成功。这其实也是对柔术很准确的类比。是啊，我是说，我算是，我是说，可能就像很多人一样，呃，通过，呃，早期的，呃，最初几场综合格斗比赛，还有乔伊斯·格雷西，而他简直不可思议，那就像完全是技术。对，对。就像，你知道，战胜比他块头大得多的人之类的，就像，噢，这很酷。它就是我们小时候以为武术应该有的样子。是啊，当你看到李小龙把这些高大魁梧的家伙都，像是，哇，武术让你能够击败一个比你高大强壮得多的人。对。大多数时候那并不是真的，尤其是如果他们也懂武术……

的话，就像，噢，不。是的，但在 UFC 里，霍伊斯·格雷西仰躺着用双腿勒住丹·塞文时，他就像，天啊。是啊，这家伙被这个高大的摔跤手压住了，然后他把双腿缠到对方脖子上，把他勒到不得不认输。是啊，太惊人了。是啊，太惊人了。我是说，霍斯在其中一些比赛里被打得相当惨。他确实是。嗯，他肯定经历过一些艰难的比赛，但他赢了。他赢了。是啊，他是传奇。而且，但它所展示的，我是说，我非常热爱柔术，它展示的是，存在一种用技术和知识化解这些局面的方法。是啊，而且我觉得这也是一种很棒的锻炼方式，因为锻炼几乎成了学习这件事的附带结果。

这种锻炼就像，你想要，就像，而且你想增强力量和体能，只是为了能把这件事做得更好。我用的类比是，比如，想象一下你有一辆赛车，而仅仅通过你自己的专注和努力，你实际上就能让这辆赛车拥有更好的操控性和更强的马力。当然。它真的就是这种感觉。是啊，完全是。是啊，我什么时候会让我的，我的孩子，我应该说，我从他们大概，我不知道，6岁起，就送他们去学柔术。噢，真的吗？是啊。噢，那太棒了。是啊，这是一件很值得学的东西，确实是。听起来像是一个不错的，是的，是啊，也许类似的东西，我是说，就算只是有人给你举靶让你打，你也能得到锻炼，而且会很有趣。嗯，我什么时候会……

为了能买到其中一辆 Roadster，那什么时候会实现？嗯，我没法，你知道，确切地说是什么时候，但，呃，我们得把，你知道，那些，这个遮盖的事有点让我们措手不及，我敢肯定。嗯，所以，嗯，不是要把所有事情都归咎于代码，但，嗯，它确实让我们的进度倒退了，你知道，若干个月。嗯，我是说，在 Roadster 之前我们必须完成的事情有，嗯，你知道，提升 Model Y 的产量。嗯，那会是一辆非常非常棒的车，它确实是一辆很棒的车；建成柏林超级工厂，而且也生产 Y；扩建上海工厂，这进展得很顺利；还有把那个，你知道，有 Cybertruck、Semi 卡车、Roadster。嗯，烤炉有点像甜点，所以就像我们，我们得先把那个，你知道，吃

土豆和绿叶菜之类的，你知道，就像，但烤炉在 Cybertruck 之前。我是说，我觉得我们应该先做 Cybertruck，在 Road 之前，在开始之前。有意思。我对此不生气。Roadster 还需要其他一些东西，呃，它们是，你知道，三电机，呃，Plaid 动力系统。我们会把它装进 Model S，呃，所以那就像是 Roadster 所需原料的第 1 部分，也就是 Plaid 动力系统，更先进的电，你知道，电池真空之类的东西。我想在忘记之前问你这件事，有家公司叫 Apex，正在拿你们的 Tesla 改装，把底盘加宽、轮胎加宽，再用稍微更先进一点的悬架。当然。你对此怎么看？你们是，你们和他们合作吗？你是

和那些人处得来吗？对，我是说，只是，我不在乎。对，继续。他们在用碳纤维把东西装点起来，还提供一大堆内饰选择，你对此没意见，你没法做那些，你没有时间，所以有人出现并开展某种专业业务，这是好事吗？对，我没问题。它就是叫那个，对吧？好像叫 JMG，是叫 Apex 吗？对，是 Unplugged Performance，是 Apex。没错，Unplugged Performance。对，对，你当然可以，嗯，你知道，减轻车辆重量，呃，改善轮胎抓地力。你看过那家公司的东西吗，他们做的那些？具体的我不知道，但有一些，它相当带劲。对，他们做出来的样子相当带劲，他们拿 Model S，把它加宽，再给它装上大量碳纤维。就是那个，对

那儿，那个看起来很不错。对，确实。现在，Model S 的 Plaid 版本，你们会加宽轮距，还会做一大堆，做一大堆不同的，我知道你们正在纽博格林测试。你不能谈那个吗？嗯，我觉得我们得把那个留到，你知道，正式的产品发布会上。我明白。对，我明白。嗯，上次你来这里时，你说服我买了一辆 Tesla。我买了，它太疯狂了。哦，太好了，很高兴你喜欢它。嗯，我不，它不只是相当有趣，就像，我对它的描述是，它让其他汽车显得很蠢。它们就是显得很笨。比如我喜欢笨东西，我喜欢笨车，比如我喜欢篝火。对。我喜欢篝火。我有一辆 1993 年的保时捷，是风冷的。当然。它就像真，它没那么快，它真的

比 Tesla 慢。对，真的。所以它确实相当慢。对。但这种机械感有某种让人投入的东西，就像那个，换挡，而且它非常，它非常模拟化，但和 Tesla 相比实在太蠢了。比如当我想开 Model S 去某个地方时，我踩下油门，它就直接冲出去了。对，它就是，它就像违反了时间。对，对。嗯，对，你试过像 Ludicrous Plus 之类的模式。对，对。酷。哦，对，我们刚刚做了一次软件更新，让它能摆出像猎豹一样的姿态，所以，呃，对，所以它，它因为配有动态空气悬架，所以会降低车尾。哦，天啊。对，就像，呃，基本上就像短跑运动员。对吧，比如如果你是短跑运动员，你会怎么做？你会蹲低身体，然后，呃，所以我缩短了大约 0.1 秒

0 6，我是说，像，你知道，它确实相当有趣。它太，我带过太多人了，我就说，我带他们体验那个神圣时刻，我说，你准备好了吗，就像，抓紧，然后我猛踩油门。我从没感受过这样的东西，它让人困惑。对，确实是。那个瞬时扭矩，瞬时扭矩，还有那种纯粹的加速度，令人费解。令人费解，令人费解。他们从没感受过。不，它比坠落还快。太疯狂了，太快了。就像过山车。对，而且我猛踩油门时家人会冲我喊，像，嗯，我对孩子们说，我说，你们想感受一下吗？你们想感受一下吗？他们说，来吧来吧来吧。我妻子说，别这么做。对。即使我只是在高速公路上这么做几秒钟，也相当刺激。对，它非常，它就像拥有

一辆随叫随到的过山车，你知道，确实像头顶上的过山车。对，没有那些环形翻转，但就是那种把你钉在座椅上的感觉。你似乎不应该能从某种，你知道，一辆普通人只要有钱就能买的消费级车辆中体验到这种感觉。它显得太，太疯狂了。然后这辆 Roadster 的构想是，比那还快 0.5 秒。对。那太疯狂了。嗯，如果是那辆 Road，用 Roadster，我们会做一些有点不公平的事情。所以我们会从，比如，你知道，从，呃，某种像火箭领域的东西里拿来一些东西，装到车上。所以，哦，我读到过那个。解释一下，比如你们会怎么做？嗯，就像我说的，我们不能。哦，产品发布会，对

这里不能说，但，但它会做到一些不公平的事情。然后那个，等我们发布 Roadster 时，我只想说，任何一直在等待的人都不会失望。就是，他们不会失望。哦，我肯定。嗯，任何能在 0 到 60，是多少，1.9，是那个 0，0-60 吗？那是基础款。那不错。产品线最顶端的型号是什么？好吧，好吧，比那个更快。只能说更快。对，这在我看来太疯狂了。现在，当时那个家伙把钢球扔向车窗，而车窗本来应该不会碎、却碎了，那是什么感受？嗯，对，我是说，我知道，无论什么情况，你都，你知道，你知道我们的演示是真实的。[笑声] 所以我没料到会这样，而且我，然后我觉得我低声嘟囔了一句。你没有

生气啊。不，你没有像史蒂夫·乔布斯那样处理。嗯，不，我，我，我确实骂了句脏话，呃，但，你知道，我以为麦克风不会收进去，但它收进去了。嗯，而且，呃，不过就像，我们在幕后练过这个。对。我希望在 Tesla，我们不会，我们不会为演示做大量练习，因为我们，我们在，我们在研发汽车，就像我们，你知道，我们在开发新技术，并且改进那些，那些基础产品。所以我们不会把时间花在，比如做几百次，你知道，练习之类的事情上。我们没时间做那个。嗯，但就在演示前几个小时，嗯，Franz，呃，你知道，呃，是设计负责人，而且我和他当时在摄影棚里把钢球扔向车窗，球直接弹开了。嗯，然后就像

好吧，这看起来相当不错，看来我们搞定了，好吧。嗯，然后我们认为发生的事情是，嗯，当我们，当，当 Franz 用大锤砸那个，那个车门时，你知道。当然。就像，就像这是，这是就像，对对对，外骨骼，你知道，高强度硬化钢。你真的可以抡起一把大锤，你知道，用双手全力挥动大锤，砸向车门，而车门甚至一个凹痕都没有。很酷。但我们认为那使玻璃底部的边角裂开了，然后一旦玻璃边角裂开，你就直接过来了。所以，呃，然后当你扔那个碗时，就是那个让玻璃裂开的。不过它没有穿透。它没有穿透。那倒是真的，那倒是真的。它没有像普通的那样整块碎掉

车窗要么会，那个就会直接碎掉，是啊，对。所以事后看来，应该先用球，再用大锤。是啊，是啊，活到老学到老。是啊，没错。听着，伙计，呃，我们已经占用了你很多时间。你最近有了一个孩子。你能抽时间来这里，真是太不可思议了，我真的很感激。我感谢你所做的一切，伙计。我，我，我很高兴有你在外面，呃，我真的很感谢你来这里分享你的观点。嗯，我觉得你的节目很棒。谢谢你邀请我。谢谢，我的荣幸，我的荣幸。女士们先生们，埃隆·马斯克。晚安。好了，那应该会得到一点，我应该会得到一点播放量。太棒了。

welcome back here we go again great to see you and congratulations thank you um you will never forget what is going on in the world when you think about when your child is born you will know for the rest of this child's life you were born during a weird time that's for sure that is for sure they're probably the weirdest that i can remember uh yeah yeah um and he was born on uh may the fourth and yeah that's hilarious too yeah may the fourth be with him yeah exactly it has to be hopefully i sure hope so perfect yes i mean that was the perfect day for you and how do you say the name well uh is it a placeholder first of all my partner is the one that actually mostly came up with the name congratulations to her yeah yeah she's great at names um so i mean

it's just x the letter x um and then the ae is like pronounced ash yeah and then a12 a12 is my contribution oh why a12 uh archangel 12 the precursor to the sr-71 coolest plane ever that's true i i agree with you i don't know i'm not familiar with it i know what the sr-71 is yeah yeah yeah i know what that is so the sr71 came from a cia program uh called archangel oh it's the archangel project and then archangel 12.

oh wow what a dope-looking plane yeah oh okay i got it yeah well as a person who's uh very much into uh aerial travel as you are that's uh perfect that's pretty great yeah pretty great um so is it does it feel strange to have a child while this craziness is going does it feel like you've had children before is this any weirder uh it's actually i think it's better uh being older and having a kid i appreciate it more um yeah babies are awesome they are pretty awesome they're awesome yeah when i didn't have my any of my own i would see other people's kids and i didn't not like them sure but i wasn't drawn to them sure but now when i see little people's kids i'm like oh i think of them like these little love packages yeah little love bugs yeah it's just you

you think of them differently when you see them come out and then grow and then eventually start talking to you like your whole idea what a baby is is very different yeah so now as you you know get older and get to appreciate it as a mature fully formed adult it must be really pretty wonderful yeah wonderful it's great but babies are awesome yeah yeah that's uh that's great um yeah um i mean also i've i've spent a lot of time on ai and neural nets and so you can sort of see the kind of the brain develop which is you know what an ai neural net is trying to simulate what a brain does basically um and you can sort of see the it learning very quickly you know it's just wow see things fire so you're talking about the neural net you're not talking about an

actual baby i don't know about actually an actual baby but both of them yes but the word neural net comes from the the brain it's like a net of neurons so you know it's like the yeah humans are the you know original gangster the neural net that's a great way to put it yeah so when you're programming artificial intelligence where you're working with artificial intelligence art are they specifically trying to mimic the developmental process of a human brain in a lot of ways there's some ways that are different um you know an analogy that's often used is like you know we we don't make a submarine swim like a fish but we take the principles of of how you know what of hydrodynamics and apply them to a submarine i've always wondered as a lay person do you try

to achieve the same results as a human brain but through different methods or do you try to copy the way a human brain achieves results i mean the essential elements of an ai neural net are really very very similar to a human brain neural net yeah it's having the multiple layers of neurons and you know back propagation these all these things are what your brain does you know it's sort of yeah um you have a layer of neurons that goes through a series of intermediate steps to ultimately cognition and that and then it'll reverse those steps and go back and forth and go all over the place um it's um yeah it's it's interesting very interesting yeah i would imagine like the thought of programming something that is eventually going to be smarter than us that

one day it's going to be like why did you do it that way like when artificial intelligence becomes sentient they're like oh you tried to mimic yourself like this so much better process cut out all this nonsense but like there are elements that are the same but just almost like like an aircraft does not fly like a bird right yeah it doesn't flap its wings but the wings the way the wings work and generate lift is the same as bird now you're in the middle of this uh this strange time where you're selling your houses you say you don't want any material possessions and i've been seeing all that and i've been really excited to talk to you about this yeah because it's an interesting thing to come from a guy like yourself like why are you doing that i'm slightly

sad about it actually but if you're sad about it why are you doing it i think i think possessions kind of weigh you down then they're kind of an attack vector you know people say hey billionaire you got all this stuff like well and now i don't have stuff now what are you gonna do attack vector meaning like people target it yeah um interesting yeah but you're obviously gonna so you're gonna rent a place yeah okay and get rid of everything except clothes no i said like almost everything so it's like keep a couple teslas yeah sure yeah kind of have to test product and stuff um yeah those things that have sentimental value for sure are keeping those here um yeah so do you feel like what's worse that could happen right you're fine yeah you could always buy

more stuff if you don't like it especially yeah i mean from the money that you sell all your stuff you could buy new stuff but do you you feel like people define you by the fact that you're you're wealthy and that they define you in a pejorative way for sure i mean not everyone but right you know there's uh for sure in recent like years billionaire has become a per jar like it's in a projective so like it's like that's a bad thing um which i mean i think doesn't make a lot of sense in most cases if you've if you're done if you basically uh organized a company like see like how do how does this wealth arise it's if you organize people in a in a better way to produce products and services that are better than what existed before and you have some ownership

in that company then that that essentially gives you the right to allocate more capital so it's there's a conflation of consumption and capital allocation so let me say warren buffett for example and to get totally frank i'm not his biggest fan but uh you know he does a lot of capital allocation um and he reads a lot of a lot of sort of annual reports of companies and all the accounting and it's pretty boring really um and he's trying to figure out is does coke or pepsi deserve more capital i mean that's i mean it's kind of a boring job if you ask me um but uh you know it's still a thing that's important to figure out like which is a company deserving of more or less capital should that company grow or expand is it making products and services that are

better than others or worse and you know should you know if a company is making compelling products and services it should get more capital and if it's not it should get less we'll go out of business well there's a big difference too between someone who's making an incredible amount of money designing and engineering fantastic products versus someone who's making an incredible amount of money by investing in companies or moving money around in the stock market or doing things along those lines it's it's a different thing and to put them all in the same category seems it's it's very simple and as you pointed out it's an attack vector yeah for sure yeah i mean i think it's it's really i i do think they're in the in the united states especially there's an

over allocation of talent uh in finance and law uh basically too many smart people go into finance and law so you know this is both a compliment and a criticism we should have of i think fewer people doing law and fewer people doing finance and more people making stuff yeah yeah well that would certainly be better for all involved if they made better stuff yeah yeah absolutely um and and you know manufacturing used to be highly valued in the united states and these days it's not it's it's often looked down upon which i think is wrong yeah well i think that people are kind of learning that particularly because of this whole pandemic and this relationship that we have with china that it there's a lot of value into making things into making things here yes

somebody's got to do the the real work yeah you know and um you know like making a car it's an honest days that's not honest day is living that's for sure you know or making anything really or providing valuable service um like providing you know greater entertainment good information but these are all valuable things to do um you know so yeah there should be more more of it did you have a moment where is this something that this idea of getting rid of your material possessions is something that built up over time or did you have a moment of realization where you realize that yeah i've been thinking about it for a while um you know part of it is like i like have a bunch of houses but i don't spend a lot of time in most of them and that doesn't seem like

a good use of assets like somebody could probably be enjoying those houses and get better use of them than me so don't you have gene wilder's house i do that's amazing that's awesome wow exactly what you'd expect did you request that the buyer not it up yeah that's a requirement oh a requirement that's that's a good requirement yeah not in that case in that house yeah it'll probably sell for last but still i don't care uh he's a legend yeah he would want his soul he'd want his essence yeah in the building it's and it's there that's a real quirky quirky house yeah what what makes you say it's there like what do you get out of it um i mean all the all the cabinets are like handmade and they're like odd shapes and there's like doors to nowhere and strange

like car doors and tunnels and really odd odd paintings on the wall and um yeah did you ever live in it it's very quirky i did live in it briefly yeah but why do you buy houses like if you own all these houses do you just get bored and go i think i'd like to have that well i you know had one house and then the junior wilder house right across the road from me from from my main house and it was going to get it was going to get sold and then torn down and turned into you know be a big construction zone for three years and i was like well i think i'll i'll buy it and preserve the spurt of gene water and not have a giant construction zone and then the you know this i started having like some privacy issues where like people would like less people just like

come to my house and you know start climbing over the walls and stuff i feel like man um so then i saw like what a house some of the houses around my house and then i thought at one point well you know it'd be cool to to build a house so then i acquired some properties at the top of samara road uh and which is got a great view and it's like okay well these some bunch of sort of small older houses they're going to get torn down anyway i was like well you know if i collect these like little little houses then i can build something you know i don't know artistic like a you know dream house type of thing what's a dream house for elon musk like some tony stark type yeah definitely yeah you gotta have the the dome that opens up with the stealth helicopter and

that kind of thing you know yeah for sure yeah yeah um but but then i was like man do i really want does it really make sense for me to spend time designing and building a house and i'd be real you know get out like ocd on the little details and the design and or should i be allocating that time to getting us to mars i should probably do the latter so you know like what's more important mars or a house i like mars okay is that really how you think like that it'd be better off planning on a trip to mars or getting people to mars yeah yeah definitely i mean you can only do so many things right right so how you can i don't know how you do what you do anyway i don't i don't understand how you can run bull with a boring company tesla spacex all these different

things you're doing constantly i just i don't understand i mean you explained last time you were here how you sort of allocate your time and and how hectic it is and insane i still don't the the productivity is uh baffling just doesn't make sense how you can get so much done well i think i do have high productivity but even with that there's still some upgraded cost of time and allocating time to building a house even if it was a really great house it still is not a good use of time relative to developing the rockets necessary to get us to mars and helping sell sustainable energy uh spacex and tesla are by far you know by the the most amount of like brain cycles um you know boring company does not take you know like less than one percent of brain cycles

and um and then this neural link which is i don't know maybe it's like five percent and then five percent that's that's a good chunk it's a good chunk yeah yeah we were talking about that last time and you were trying to figure out when it was actually going to go live when it's actually going to be available are you testing on people right now no we're not testing people yet but i i think it won't be too long i think we may be able to implant a neurolink in less than a year in a person i think and when you do this is there any tests that you have to do before you do something like this to to see what percentage of people's bodies are going to reject these things is it put is it there is there a potential for rejection it's a very low potential for rejection

i mean you can think of it like people put in you know heart monitors and um you know things for epileptic seizures and deep brain stimulation um obviously like you know artificial hips and right knees and that kind of thing so the probability of i mean like it's so it's well known like what will cause rejection what what will not um it's definitely harder when you've got something that is sort of reading and writing neurons that's that's generating a current pulse and reading current pulses that's that's a little harder um then then say uh passive device but it's still you know very doable and um yeah there there are people who have primitive devices in in their brains right now what kind of devices i like deep brain stimulation is i think for parkinson's

is like has really changed people's lives in a big way um which is kind of remarkable because it kind of like zaps your brain um it's like kicking the tv type of thing um and you think like man kicking the tv shouldn't work it does sometimes yeah yeah the old old tvs it did my grandpa used to slap the top for sure yeah it would work sometimes yeah so this deep right simulation uh implanted devices in the brain that uh have changed people's lives for the better like fundamentally well let's talk about what you can talk about to what neurolink is because the last time you were here you really couldn't discuss it and then there was a i guess a press release or something that sort of outlined yeah that that happened quite a bit after the last time you were

here so what exactly is it how do you do what what happens if someone ultimately does get a neurolink installed what will take place well for version one of the device it would be it basically implanted in your skull so but it would be flush with your skull so you basically uh take out a chunk of skull replace put the neurologic device in there um you put the the electrode you'd insert the electrode threads very carefully into the the brain and uh and then you you know stitch it up and um and you wouldn't even know that somebody has it and then and and so then it it can interface basically anywhere in any anywhere in your brain um so it could be something that uh you know helps cure say uh eyesight like give you returns your eyesight even if you've like

lost your optic nerve type of thing uh really yeah yeah absolutely hearing obviously um i mean pretty much anything that where that it could in principle fix almost anything that is wrong with the brain and it could restore uh limb functionality so if you've got uh interface into the motor cortex and then an implant that's say that's like a microcontroller and near muscle groups uh you you could then create a sort of a neural shunt that restores somebody who's a quadriplegic to full functionality like they can walk around be normal whoa yeah so maybe slightly better slightly better over time yes you mean with future iterations like the you know six million dollar man although these days that would that doesn't matter yeah six billion dollars so the the

hole would be small how big would the hole be that you have to drill and then replace with this piece it's only one hole well um yeah the device we're working on right now is about it's about an inch in diameter um and your skull is pretty thick by the way so skulls are mine is for sure it might actually literally um i mean if you're a big if you're a big guy your skull is actually fairly thick um skulls like it's like seven to 14 millimeters um so that's probably a couple inches a half inch you know half inch thick skull ish so um yeah yeah so that's a fair bit of like our we got quite a coconut going on here it's not it's not like some egg shell oh yeah i believe you um so the yeah you basically implant the device uh and so you would be like a one inch

square one inch in diameter yeah like so an inch circle like a circular yeah i think like a like a smart watch or something like that okay yeah okay so you take this one-inch diameter like ice fishing right you ever go ice fishing um no but i'd like to it's great yeah it's really fun so you basically take an auger and you you drill through the surface of the ice yeah and you create a small hole and you can dunk your line in there so this is like that you're ice fishing on the top of your skull and then you cork it yeah and you replace that say one inch diameter piece of skull with this neural link device and that has a battery and a and a bluetooth and a inductive charger um and then you and and now then you also got to insert the electrodes uh so the

electrode is very carefully inserted uh with our with a robot that we developed uh that's you know very carefully putting in the electrodes and avoiding you know and any veins or arteries uh so it's you know doesn't create trauma so through this one-inch diameter device electrodes be inserted and they will find their way like tiny wires basically tiny wires and they'll find their way to specific areas of the brain to stimulate no you literally put them where they're supposed to go oh okay yeah how long will these wires be uh i mean they usually go in like you know depending on where it is like you know two or three millimeters so they just find the spots yeah wow um and then um yeah then you put the device in and that that gets uh that that replaces the

little piece of skull that was taken out uh and then you you stitch up the hole and and um and you just have it look like a little scar and that's it well this would be replaceable or reversible yes like if someone can't take it anymore i'm too smart i can't take it yeah you can totally check it out and what is the besides restoring limb function and eyesight and hearing which are all amazing is there are there any cognitive benefits that you anticipate from something like this uh yeah i mean you could for sure um uh i mean basically it's a generalized um sort of uh thing for for fixing any kind of brain injury in in principle like if you or if you've got like like severe epilepsy or something like that it could it could just it could just sort of stop

the epilepsy from occurring like it could detect it in real time and then fire a counter pulse and stop the epilepsy um if um i mean there's a whole range of brain injuries like if somebody gets a stroke they could lose the ability to speak um you know that that'll stack could also be fixed so if you've got like stroke damage or if you lose say you know muscle control over part of your face or something like that i think and then when when you get old you tend to if you get like you know alzheimer's or something like that then you lose memory and this could help you with you know restoring your memory that kind of thing restoring memory and what what is happening that's allowing it to do that like the wires these small wires stimulating these areas of

the brain and then is it that the areas of the brain are they're they're losing some sort of electrical force like what it what is happening yeah yeah it's it's like it's like i think it's like a bunch of circuits and there's some like circuits that are broken and we can like uh fix those circuits substitute for those circuit circuits and so a specific frequency will go through this yeah specific in that would is the process figuring out how much or how little has to be how how much these areas of the brain have to be juiced up yeah i mean there's still a lot of work to do so when i say you know we got a shot at probably putting it in in a person in you know a within a year i think that's that's what that's exactly what i mean i think we have a chance

of putting input into one and having them having them be healthy and and restoring some functionality that they've lost the fear is that eventually you're gonna have to cut the whole top of someone's head off and put a new top with a whole bunch of wires if you want to get you know the real turbocharged version the p100d of brain stimulation i mean ultimately if you if you want to go with full ai symbiosis you'll probably want to do something like that symbiosis is a scary word when it comes to ai it's optional [Laughter] i would hope so yeah it's just i mean once you enjoy the dr manhattan lifestyle once you once you become a god seems very very unlikely you're going to want to go back to being stupid again i mean you you literally could fundamentally

change the way human beings interface with each other yes you wouldn't need to talk i'm so scared of that but so excited about it at the same time is that weird yeah i mean the i think this is one of the paths to um you know i think like what like ai is getting better and better um so now let's assume it's sort of like a benign ai scenario even in a benign scenario we're kind of left behind you know we're we're not we're not along for the ride um we're just too dumb right so so how do you go along for the ride um yeah so you can't beat them join them so um and we're already we're already a cyborg to some degree right because you've got your phone you've got your laptop glasses yeah yeah guitar electronic devices and i mean today if you your phone if you

if you don't bring your phone along it's like you have missing limb syndrome that's like you know it feels like something's really really missing so we're already partly um part you know partly a cyborg um or an ai symbiote essentially um it's just that the data rate to the electronics is slow so especially output like you're just going with your thumbs i don't know like what's your data rate maybe optimistically 100 bits per second that's being generous um and now the computer can communicate at like you know 100 terabits you know so so certainly you know gigabits are a trivial at this point so this this is like you know basically your computer could do a mil do things a million times faster or at a certain point it's like talk they as like talking to

a tree okay it's boring you talk to a tree it's very not very entertaining um so um so if you if you can solve the the data rate issue and your especially output but input two then you can improve the symbiosis that is already occurring between mana machine so you you can improve it in what when you said you won't have to talk to each other anymore we used to joke around about that i i've joked around about that a million times in this podcast that one day in the future there's going to come a time where you can read each other's minds and well you'll be able to interface with each other in some sort of a non-verbal non-physical way where you will transfer data back and forth to each other without having to actually use your mouth and make noises exactly

so when you like what happens when you when like let's say you've got some complex idea that you're trying to convey to somebody else and how do you do that well your brain spends a lot of effort compressing a complex concept into words and there's a there's a lot a lot of loss information loss that occurs when compressing a complex concept into words and then you say those words those words are then interpreted then they're decompressed by the person who is listening and they they will at best get a very incomplete understanding of what you're trying to convey it's very difficult to convey a complex concept with precision because you've got compression decompression you may not even have heard all the words correctly and so communication is difficult

you know what we have here is a failure to communicate cool and luke yes and there's a great movie yeah there's an interpretation factor too like you can choose to interpret certain series of words in in different ways and they're dependent upon tone dependent upon social cues even facial expressions sarcasm there's a lot of variables sarcasm is difficult yes yeah and so one of the things that i i've said is like that there could be potentially a universal language that's created through computers that particularly young kids would pick up very quickly like my kids do tick tock and all this jazz and i don't know what they're doing they just know how to do it and they know how to do it really quickly like they learn really quickly they show me how to edit

things and yeah it's if you taught a child from first grade on how to use some new universal language i mean essentially like a rosetta stone and something that's done that interprets your thoughts and you can convey your thoughts with no room for interpretation with clear very clear that where you know what a person's saying and you can tell them what you're saying and there's no need for noises no need for mouth noises no need for these sort of accepted ways that we've uh sort of evolved to make sounds that we all agree we through our cultural dictionary right we agree or certainly we could bypass all that yeah we can still do it for for sentimental reasons right like campfires yeah yeah exactly i don't need campfires i don't need to roast marshmallows

kind of fun right um so yeah um yeah i think you would in principle you would be able to communicate very quickly and with far more precision ideas and language would i'm not sure what would happen to language but you could probably within a situation like this that you would be able to just kind of like the matrix you you want to speak a different language in a problem right that's why it just downloaded the program right so at least for the first iterations first few iterations we'll just be able to use like i i know that google has uh their some of their pixel buds have the ability to interpret languages in real time sure yeah you can hear it and they'll it'll play things back to you in whatever language you choose so to be something along those lines

yeah for the first few iterations well the first few iterations are i mean what i'm talking about is like in the limit over time you know with a lot of development um the first few iterations really in the first few versions all we're going to be trying to do is solve brain injuries um so so it's like don't don't worry that that's not going to sneak up on you this this will take a while how many years before you don't have to talk if the if the development continues to accelerate then maybe like five years five to ten years that's quick that's really quick that's the best case scenario no talking anymore in five years best case scenario but i'm 10 10 years more like it i've always speculated that aliens could potentially be us in the future because if

you look at like the size their heads and the fact that they have very little muscle and then they don't use their mouth anymore they was tiny little i mean the archetypal alien that you see in like closing counters are the third kind they they're like if you went from like uh australopithecus or ancient hominid to us what's the difference less hair less muscle bigger head and then just keep going a thousand a million whatever you or five years whatever whatever happens when neurolink goes on online and then we slowly start to adapt to this new way of being where we don't use our muscles anymore we have this gigantic head we can talk without words you could also save state and save state save state like save your brain state like like a saved game in

a video game whoa like like if you want to swap from windows 95 well yeah i think we are windows 95 right now yeah from a future perspective probably um but yeah i mean you you could save state um and restore that state into a biological being if you if you wanted to in the future in principle it's like nothing like from a physics standpoint that prevents us now you'd be a little different but then you're also a little different when you wake up in the morning from yesterday and you're a little different in fact if you say like you five years ago versus you today is quite a big difference yes um so you'd be substantially you i mean you'd be you'd certainly think you're you but the idea of saving yourself and then transforming that into some sort of a

biological state like you can hang out with 30 year old you i mean the possibilities are endless that's so weird i mean these things think like how your phone can you can record videos on your phone like there's no way you could remember a video right as accurately as your phone or a camera you know could so uh now if you've got like a you know some some you know version 10 hero link whatever and far in the future you could you could remember you could recall everything but just like it's a movie concluding all the entire sensory experience emotions everything everything everything and play it back and you can enjoy it you should edit it edit it yeah so you can change your past you could change what do you think was your past yeah well so if you had like

a tremendous thing right now could be a replayed memory it could be yeah it may be what's the odds of this being a replayed memory if you had a guess it's more than 50 there's no way to assign a probability with accuracy here right but roughly if you just had a just gut instinct well i don't have a neural link in my brain so i say right now zero percent but at the point at which you do have a neural link then it rises above zero percent the idea that we're experiencing some sort of a preserved memory is uh even though it's still the same it's not comforting right for some reason when we people talk about simulation theory they talk about the potential for this currently being a simulation it even though your life might be wonderful you might be in love

you might love your career you might have great friends but it's not comforting to know that this experience somehow or another doesn't exist in a material form that you can knock on it feels real doesn't it feels real but but if it's not but the idea that it's not is for some strange reason disconcerting well yeah i'm sure it should be disconcerting because then if this is not real what is right um but but the you know there's that that old sort of um thought experiment of like how do you know you're not a brain in a vet you know i mean now here's the thing you are a brain an event then that fat is your skull yes and everything you see feel here everything all your senses are electrical signals everything everything is an electrical signal to up to a

brain in a vat where the vat is called and all your hormones all your neurotransmitters all these things are drugs adrenaline's a drug dopamine's a drug you're a drug factory you're constantly changing your state with love and oxytocin and and beauty sure changes your state great music changes your state absolutely and yet here's another sort of interesting idea which is um because you say like where did consciousness arise well assuming you believe the belief in physics which appears to be true um then you know we the universe started off as basically quarks and leptons and it quickly became hydrogen and of helium lithium like basically elements the periodic table but it was like mostly hydrogen basically and then and then over a long period of time

uh you know 13.

8 billion years later that hydrogen became sentient but so where along the way that conju where is the consciousness what's the line of consciousness and not consciousness right between hydrogen and here right when do we call it when do we call it consciousness i was watching a video today that we played on a podcast earlier of a monkey riding a motorcycle down the street jumps off the motorcycle and tries to steal a baby yeah i saw that one they went apparel what is that monkey conscious it seems like it is it seems like it had a plan it was riding a motorcycle and then jumped off the motorcycle to try to steal a baby seems pretty the one that just strike baby down the street pretty far yeah yeah seems pretty conscious right there's definitely some degree

of consciousness there yeah it's not like it's not a worm it seems to be on another level yeah and it's going to keep going and that that's the real concern when when people think about the potential future versions of human beings especially when you consider symbiotic relationship to artificial intelligence it will be unrecognizable that one day we'll be so far removed from what this is we'll look back on this the way we look back now on you know simple simple organisms that we evolved from and then it won't be that far in the future that we do have this this view back well i hope consciousness propagates into the future and it gets more more sophisticated and complex and and that it understands the questions to ask about the universe do you think that's

the case as a human being as yourself you're clearly trying to make conscious decisions to be a better version of you right this is the idea of like getting rid of your possessions and realizing that you're trying to like i don't like this i will try to improve this i will try to do a better version of the way i interface with reality that this is always the way things are if you're if you're moving in a some sort of a direction where you're trying to improve things you're always going to move into this new place where you look back in the old place and go i was doing it wrong back then so this is an accelerated version of that super accelerated version of that i mean you don't always improve but you can aspire to improve you can aspire to be less wrong

yeah this is like i think a good the tools of physics are very powerful like just assume you're wrong and you're asking your goals to be less wrong i don't think you're gonna if you succeed every day and being less wrong but you know if you're gonna succeed in being less wrong most of the time you're doing great that's a great way of putting aspire to be less wrong but then when you know people look back at nostalgia about simpler times there's that too it's very romantic and exciting to look back on campfires but you can still have a campfire yes yeah but will you appreciate it when you're a super nerd when you're connected to the grid and you have some uh skull cap in place of the top of your head and it's interfacing with the inter international language

that the rest of the universe now enjoys communication with people and we're yeah sure i think so yeah i like empires [Laughter] i'm just worried i mean uh everyone's always scared of change but i'm scared of this monumental change where we won't we won't talk anymore i mean that thing will communicate yes but that's there's something about there's something about the beauty of the crudeness of language where when it's done eloquently it's it's it's satisfying and it it it hits us in some sort of a visceral way like ah that person nailed it i love that they nailed it like that it's so hard to capture a real thought and convey it in a way in this articulate way that makes someone except like you read a quote a great quote by a wise person it makes you

excited that their mind figured something out put the words together in a right way that makes your brain pop like oh yes yeah yes it's clever compression of a concept yeah and a feeling but the fact that a human did it too yeah absolutely do you think that it'll be like electronic music like people won't appreciate it like they appreciate a slide guitar i like electronic music i do too yeah well you make it i know you liked it yeah yeah yeah um yeah i mean i hope the future is more fun and interesting and we should try to make that way i hope it's more fun and interesting too yeah i just you know i just hope you don't lose anything along the way yeah we might at least little but hopefully we'll gain more than lose yeah that's the thing right gaining

more than we lose like something that makes us interesting is that we're so flawed it's not for sure right yeah i mean you look at civilizations through the ages um most of them uh you know they rose and fell yeah and uh i do think like the globalization uh that that we have at the sort of like the the meme sphere uh is uh there's not enough isolation between countries or regions um it's like if you get up if there's a mind virus that that my virus cannot infect too much of the world uh you know like i actually sort of sympathize with the anti-globalization people because it's it's like man we don't ever want everywhere to be the same for sure and then we we need some kind of like mind viral immunity so that that's it's a bit concerning mind viral immunity

meaning that once something like neural link gets established the real concern is something that i mean you said it's bluetooth right or some future version of that that the idea is that something could possibly get into it it up no i'm talking about like uh somebody there's some cockeyed concept that um that's happened that happens right right now yeah well i know there's viruses and embedded chips right like people have they've embedded chips and then acquired viruses well when i'm talking about my verse i'm talking about like a a concept that affects people's minds oh okay okay like uh cult thinking or yeah some sort of fundamentalism yeah just wrong-headed idea that yes goes viral in a in an idea sense [Music] well that is that is a problem too right

if someone can manipulate that technology to make something appear logical or rational yeah yeah that would that be an issue too with this is a very have versus have not issue right once this thing if if this really does i mean initially it's going to help people with with injuries and but you you said ultimately it could lead to this spectacular cognitive change yes but the people that first get it should have a massive advantage over people that don't have it yet well i mean it's the kind of thing where your productivity would improve i don't know dramatically maybe by a factor of 10 with it so you could definitely just you know uh i don't know take out a loan and do it and earn earn the money back real fast so you're super smart well in a capitalist

society you know you could it seems like you could really get so far ahead that before everybody else could afford this thing and link up and get connected as well you'd be so far ahead they could never catch you is that a concern uh well i think the the it's not a super huge concern i mean there are huge differences in cognitive ability and and resources already yeah um i mean you can think of a corporation as like a cybernetic collective uh that's far smarter than an individual like i i can personally build like a whole rocket and and the engines and launch it and everything that's impossible uh but you know we have eight thousand people with spacex and you might you know piecing it out to different people um and using like you know computers and machines

and stuff we can make lots of rockets launch and all but stuck with the space station that kind of thing you know um so that already exists where this you know where there's a corporations are vastly more capable than an individual um but the the like we should be i think less concerned about like relative capabilities between people and and more like uh having ai be vastly you know beyond us and decoupled from human will decoupled from human so this is the if you can't beat them join them yeah i mean so you feel like it's inevitable like ai sentient ai is essentially inevitable super sentient ai yeah like beyond a level that's difficult to understand and impossible to understand probably and somehow or another us so it's almost like it's a requirement

for survival to achieve some sort of symbiotic existence with ai it's not a requirement it's just um if you if you want to be along for the ride then you need to do some kind of symbiosis so the the way your brain works right now you've got uh kind of like the animal brain reptile brain kind of let's say it's like the limbic system basically and you've got the the cortex um now the brain purists will argue with this definition but essentially you've got the primitive brain and you've got the the sort of smart brain or the brain that's capable of planning and understanding concepts and different difficult you know things that a monkey can't understand um now the your cortex is much much smarter than your olympic system um nonetheless they work together

well so i haven't met anyone who wants to delete the olympic system or the cortex that people are quite happy having both um so you can think of the this as being like the computer the ai is like a a third layer a tertiary layer so that is like that could be symbiotic with the cortex it'd be much smarter than the cortex but you'd essentially have three layers and you actually have that right now your phone is capable of things and your computer is capable things that your brain is definitely not you know storing your terabytes of information perfectly um doing incredible calculations that you you know we couldn't even come close to doing you have that with your computer it's just like i said the data rate is slow the connection is weak why is it so disconcerting

or why is it why does it not give me comfort to think about like when i think about a symbiotic connection to ai i always think of this cold emotionless sort of thing that we will become is that a bad way to look at it i don't think that's not that's not quite that's not how it would be like i said you you already are yeah symbiotic with ai or computers phones computers laptops yeah and there's there's quite a bit of ai going on you know near so artificial neural nets um increasingly neural nets are sort of taking over from regular programming more and more so you are connected um you know if you use google voice or alexa or one of those things it's using a neural net to decode your speech and try to understand what you're saying um you know if if you're

trying to image recognition or improve the quality of photograph it's it's using the neural nets the best way to do that so um you are already uh sort of a sort of a cybernetic symbiote it like said you when that it's just a question of your data rate the the the communication speed between your your phone and your brain is slow when do you think you're gonna do it how long will you wait um like once it starts becoming available yeah if it works i'll do it sure right away i mean let's make sure it works how do we make sure it works we're trying on prisoners like what do you do no no you take rapists no cut holes in your head now like i said if somebody's got a serious brain injury right um and though you know people have like very severe brain injuries

um and then and then you can fix those those brain injuries um and you know then you prove out that it works and you expand envelope expand and make more and more brain injuries uh sold more and more um and that you know suddenly at certain age we all are are going to get alzheimer's we're all going to get senile um and then you know moms forget the names of their kids and that kind of thing and so you know it's like you said okay well you know this would allow you to remember your names your kids and and and have a normal a much more normal life where you you you're able to function much later in life um so i think that so essentially that there would almost everyone would find a need at some point if if you get old enough to use your neural link and

and and then it's like okay so we can improve the functionality and improve the communications communication speed so then you will not have to use your thumbs to communicate with the computer do you ever sit down extrapolate do you ever like sit down and think about all the different iterations of this and what this eventually leads to um yeah i mean i think sure think about a lot um there's like i said this is not something that's going to sneak up on you you know there's like getting fda approval for this stuff is not like overnight you know um and this there's i mean we probably have to be on like version 10 or something before you know it it would realistically be um you know a human ai symbiote situation so you'll see it coming you know you see

it coming but what do you think it's going to be like when you sit when you're alone if you have free time i don't know if you have free time but if you just sit down and think about this iteration the next onward keep going and you you drag it out with improvements along the way and leaps and bounds and technological innovations and where do you see it what are we going to be like when 20 25 years from now what are we going to be well assuming civilization is still around um it's looking fragile right now um i think we i think we could have a in 25 years probably something i think like that could be a whole brain interface a whole brain interface sorry pretty close to that yeah how does how do you define what do you mean by whole brain interface um like

almost all the neurons are connected to uh you're the sort of ai extension of yourself if you want ai extension of yourself yeah what does that mean to you like when you say ai extension of yourself well you like i said you already have a computer extension of yourself in your phone you know and computers and stuff so and now online it's like somebody dies there's this like an online ghost that they're they're still their online stuff yeah it's alive that's a good way to put it it is weird when you read someone's tweets after they're dead yeah yeah instagram and their stories and stuff yeah whatever facebook inside you know like that's a great way to put it it's like an online ghost that's very accurate yeah so yeah so there's it would just be that that

more of you would be in the cloud i guess than in your body more of it more of you whoa now when you say civilization's fragile do you mean because of this covet 19 that's going on right now what's that i've never heard of it it's this thing yeah no it's like uh some people just get a card other people it gets much worse uh sure yeah well yeah i mean this certainly has taken over the mayan space of the world to a degree that is quite shocking yeah well out of nowhere that's what's crazy it's like you go back to november nothing now here we are december january february march april may six months totally different world so from nothing to everything's locked down there's so much uh conflicting information and conflicting opinions about how to proceed what

what has happened you you find things where there was a meat packing plant i believe in missouri where 300 plus people were asymptomatic tested positive or asymptomatic and then in other places it just ravages entire communities and kills people and it's it's so weird it almost appears on the out like if you didn't know any better you'd be like what it seems like there's a bunch of different viruses it doesn't seem like it's the same thing or has a bunch of different reactions to the biological variety of of people yeah um i mean i kind of saw this whole thing play out in china uh before it played out in the us so um it's kind of like watching the same movie again but in english um so yeah um i might i think the the the the mortality rate is much less

than what is then what say the world health organization said it was it's very much module assets like probably at least order of magnitude less well it seems to be very deadly to very specific kinds of people and people with specific problems yeah i mean if you're you can look at the mortality statistics you know by age and whether they have comorbid comorbidities like do they have like basically existing conditions and um by age um and uh you know if you're below 60 and and have no serious health issues the probability of death is extremely low it's not zero but it's extremely low they didn't think that this was the case though when they first started to lock down the country do you think that it's a situation where once they've proceeded in a certain

way it's very difficult to correct course it's almost like people really wanted a panic that you know quite quite crazy but in some places a panic is deserved right like if you're in the icu in manhattan and people are dying left and right and everyone's on intubators and it's it's it seems like when you see all these people on ventilators and so many of them are dying and you see these nurses are dying and doctors are getting sick in some places that fear is justified but then in other places you're reading these stories about hospitals that are essentially half empty they're they're having to furlough doctors and nurses because there's no work for them most of the hospitals in the united states right now half empty in some cases they're at 30 capacity

and is this because they've decided to forego elective procedures and and normal things that people would have to go to the hospital for yes i mean we're not talking about just some of these elective procedures are quite important like it's like you have about a lot of disease yeah sure and you need a you know triple bypass it's like sort of elective but if you don't get it done in time it's you're gonna die yeah it's elective is a weird word yeah elective it's not like hey i i want to it's not like plastic surgery it's more like like my my hip is i'm in extreme pain because my my hips blown out or my knee and i don't want to go to the hospital i can't go to the hospital to you know people in extreme pain people that need a kidney you know like people

that have like quite serious issues that are choosing not to go out of fear um so i think it's it's a problem it's not good it seems like the state of public perception is shifting it is like people are taking some deep breaths and relaxing and because of the statistics of i mean and essentially across the board it's being recognized that it's not as fatal as we thought it was still dangerous still worse than the flu but not as bad as we thought or we feared it could be i mean objectively the mortality is is much lower like at least a factor of 10 maybe a factor of 50 lower than initially thought do you think that the current way we're handling this the social distancing the mass the locking down is it does this make sense is it adequate or do you think

that we should move back to at least closer to where we used to be well i think proper hygiene is a good thing no matter what you know wash your hands and you know and if you're if you're coughing stay home or wear a mask this is not good you know um like they do that in japan that's like normal if you're if you're ill you you wear a face mask and you don't cough on people i think that that would be a great thing to to adopt in general throughout the world um washing your hands is also good well that's the speculation why men get it more than women because men are disgusting and we don't watch that disgusting it's true it's true yeah we're all my men in this room we're all gross yeah let's go to the restroom you can see us yes we're gross my daughter

my nine-year-old daughter yells at me she goes did you wash your hands she makes me go back and wash my hands hmm she's right nine years old if i had a nine-year-old boy do you think he would care i wouldn't give a if i wash my hands true um so yeah i think that there's definitely some silver linings here than in improved uh you know uh hygiene yeah and an awareness of potential yes and i think this has shaken up the the system uh system is like somewhat more bond with la la's layers of bureaucracy and i think that we've cut through some of that bureaucracy uh and if we you know at some point there probably will be a uh pandemic with with a with a high mortality rate uh debate about like what's high but i mean like someone that's killing a lot of 20 year

olds let's say like it's yeah if you had like ebola type of mortality spanish flu something that uh tax immune systems of healthy people yeah yeah um yeah but it's a yeah like like killing large numbers of young healthy people that that's you know define that as like uh uh high mortality then that this is at least practice for something like that um and i think there's this you know given it's just a matter of time that there will be eventually some some such pandemic do you think that in a sense the one good thing that we might get out of this is the realization that this is a potential reality that we we got lucky in this sense i mean in people that didn't get lucky and died of course i'm not disrespecting their death and their loss but i'm saying overall

as a as a culture as a community as a human race as a community this is not as bad as it could have been this is a good dry run for us to appreciate that we need far more resources dedicated towards the the understanding these diseases what to do in the case of pandemic and much more money that goes to funding treatments and and some preventative measures yeah absolutely um and i think i think there's a good chance it's highly likely i think coming out of this that we will develop uh vaccines that we didn't have before uh for uh quran viruses and other other viruses um and and possibly cures uh for for these and our understanding of uh viruses of this nature has improved dramatically because of the attention that it's received so there's definitely some

you know a lot of silver linings here um and potentially if we act correctly yeah yeah yeah there's uh i think there will be some amounts of lighting here no matter what um hopefully it can be more professive lighting than less yeah um so yeah this is this is uh it's like kind of like a practice run for something that had that that had a potential that might in the future have a serious uh like a really high mortality rate that and we kind of got to go through this with without without it being something that kills you know vast numbers of young healthy people yeah when you made a series of tweets recently uh you know uh i don't remember the exact wording but essentially you were saying free america now like let's think about that is it thank you but

uh the the you know what was the how much do you pay attention to the response to that stuff and what was the response like did anybody go hey elon what the you doing did anybody pull you aside who does that who gets to do that to you well i mean i certainly get that there's no shortage of negative feedback on twitter you know oh yeah twitter yeah but i don't read that do you read it warzone you do sometimes though right you do read it yeah i mean scroll through the comments like as a meme warzone yeah i mean people knife you're good it's something i i enjoy about that just the there's a something about the the freedom of expression that comes from all these people that do attack you it's like well they if there was no vulnerability whatsoever they wouldn't

attack you and it's like there's something about these millions and millions of perspectives that you you have to you have to appreciate even if it comes your way even if the storm hits you in the face sure you gotta appreciate wow how amazing is it that all these people do have the ability to express themselves you don't don't necessarily want to be there when the hits you sure you might want to get out of the way in anticipation of the storm but the fact that so many people have the ability to reach out and i think it's in a lot of ways it's uh i don't wanna say a misused resource but it's like giving monkeys guns they just start they start gunning down things that in front of them without any realization of what they're doing they have a rock they

see a window they throw it whoa look at that i got elon madd look at that this guy got mad at me this this i i took this person down on twitter i got this lady fired oh the business is going under because of twitter wars it seems like there's something about it that's this newfound thing that uh i want to say abuse but just i want to say that it's almost like you know you hit the button and things blow up you're like wow this is what else can we blow up sure um i mean i've been in the twitter war zone for for a while here so put your war zone you know take it takes a lot to phase me at this point yeah that's good too right like you develop a thick skin yeah you can't take it personally these people don't like actually know you you know like yeah it's

just like you know so it's like if you're if you're fighting a war and there's like some opposing soldier that that shoots shoots at you it's not like they hate you they don't even know you right yeah yeah so just think of it like that like they're firing bullets or whatever um but they don't know you so don't take it personally there's something interesting about it too it's like uh like when you write something in you know 280 characters and they write something into it it's such a crude way it's like you know someone's saying sending opposing smoke signals that refute your smoke signals it's like it's so crude and especially when you're talking about something like neural link he's talking about some future potential where you're going to be able to

express pure thoughts that get get conveyed through some sort of a universal language with no ambiguity whatsoever versus you know tweets well there'll always be some ambiguity but yeah tweets are it's hard um like the maybe there should be like a sarcasm flag or something you know right right um or i'm not you know just kidding or whatever you know like don't you know it seems like it would take away some of the fun from people that know it's sarcasm like if everybody knew that the onion wasn't real if you sent people articles yeah is something about someone getting angry at an onion article wow that's amazing you know what i mean where they don't realize what it is there's something fun about that for everybody else uh yeah i know it's pretty great

it might be the best news source do you know who titania mcgrath is hilario it's uh andrew boyle he's a uh a british fellow a brilliant guy who's been on the podcast before and he has this uh fictional character this uh pseudonym titania mcgrath who's like this all the ultimate social justice warrior is this like like a female avatar a female avatar that's actually a computer conglomeration of a bunch of faces okay it's not really one person so one person can't be a victim and be angry he's sort of combined these faces to make this one perfect social justice more okay but the thing like i recognized it early on before i met him sure that this was parody this is this was just fun and then i love reading the people that don't recognize that they get angry

sure and then they're really really like there's a lot of people that just get really furious sure about some of some fun to that there's some fun to the not picking up on the the the true nature of the signal i find twitter quite engaging how do you have the time um well i mean it's like five minutes every couple hours type of thing it's not like i'm sitting on an old day but even five minutes every couple hours if those are bad five minutes they might be bouncing around your head for the next 30.

yeah you have to you know like i said take a certain amount of distance from you read this and you're like okay it's bullets being fired by an opposing army you know don't like it it's not like they they like so it's not like they know you it's like don't take it personally um did you feel the same way when when cnn had that stupid about ventilators with you i i found that both confusing and the the the yeah that was annoying it was annoying but what is also annoying as a person who reads cnn and wants to think of them as a responsible conveyor of the facts i would like to think that yeah i don't think cnn is that i think he used to be he used to be yeah um like what do you think's the the best source of just like information out there that's a good question

you know like let's say you're just like average citizen trying to just get the facts you know figure out what's going on like you know how to live your life and you know just looking for what what's going on in the world that it's hard to find something that that isn't you know that's that that's good yeah you know uh that you know not not trying to push some partisan angle not trying to not not sort of doing sloppy reporting and and just aiming for the most number of clicks and trying to maximize ad dollars and that kind of thing yeah you're just trying to figure out what's going on it's like i'm hard pressed where do you go i don't know i don't think there's any pure form my favorite places are the new york times and the la times and i don't trust

them 100 percent you know because also there's individuals that are writing these stories exactly and that's seems to be the problems these individual biases and these individual there's purposely distorted perceptions and then there's ignorantly reported facts and there's so many variables and you got to put everything through this filter of where is this person coming from do they have political biases do they have social biases do they are they are they upset because of their own shortcomings and they are they projecting this into the story sure it's so hard yeah i think like maybe just trying to find individual reporters that you think are good and yeah kind of falling down as opposed to the publication i go with whatever matt taibbi says okay i trust

him more than anybody all right matt taib he's onto something i just he's as far as investigative reporters in particular the way he reported the savings and loan crisis the way he reports everything i just i just listen to him above most above mo he's my go-to guy all right i'll check it out uh it's rolling stone's articles or his stuff on the savings alone crisis just like what in the and you know and he wasn't you know he's not an economist by any stretch of the imagination so he had to really sort of deeply embed himself in that world to try to understand it and to be able to report on it and was also with a humorous flair for now that's nice yeah um yeah but it's not that many of them there's it's hard and not a location where like we are no that's

right you know we are no bullshit.

com like the one place where you can say this is what we know this is what we don't know this is what we think not this person's wrong and here's why like oh god damn it you know i can't you you don't know there's a lot of stuff that is open to interpretation yeah this this particular coronavirus issue that we're dealing with right now seems to be a great illuminator of that very fact is that there's so much data and there's this so there's so much that's open to interpret there's so many thing because it's all happening in real time right and like particularly right now in california we're in stage two tomorrow or friday two days from now stage two retail stores opening up things are changing like when no one knows the correct process that needs to take

place to save the most amount of lives but yet ensure that our our culture and that our our our economy survives it's a lot of speculation and guessing but if you go to certain places they'll tell you we know why and we know this and we know uh it's hard yeah i mean i in general i think that's like we should be concerned about um anything that's a massive infringement on our civil civil liberties yes you know so it's like you got to put a lot of weight on that um you know people a lot of people died to you know win independence with the country and and fight for the democracy that we have and uh you know we should treasure that and not and not give up our liberties too easily i think we've we i mean i think we probably did that actually well i like what

you said when you said that it should be a choice and that to require people to stay home require people to not go to work require and to to arrest people for trying to make a living this all seems wrong and i think it's a wrong approach it's a it's uh you're you're it's an infantilization of the society that daddy's going to tell you what to do fundamentally a violation of the constitution yeah freedom of assembly and you know it's just i mean i don't think these things stand up in court really they're arresting people for protesting yeah yeah because they're protesting and violating social distancing and these mandates that tell people that they have to stay home yeah these these are these would definitely not stand up uh you know if the supreme court

here i mean it's obviously a complete violation right yeah yeah and again this is not in any way um disrespecting the people who have died from this disease that's certainly a real thing to think of yeah i mean it it it just should be if if you're if you're at risk you should not be compelled to leave your house right um or leave a place of safety but you should also not be uh if you're not at risk or if you are at risk and you wish to take a risk with your life you should have the right to do that and it seems like at this point in time particularly our resources would be best served protecting the people that are at risk versus penalizing the people that are not at high risk for living their life the way they did particularly having a career and and

making a living and feeding your family paying your bills keeping your store open keeping your restaurant open yes i mean there's there's a strong a strong downside to this yeah so yeah i just believe like you know if this is a free country you should be you know a lot allowed to do you know what you want as long as it does not endanger others but that's the thing right people this is the argument they will bring up like you are endangering others you should stay home for the people that that you even if you're fine even if you know you're gonna be okay there's certain people that will not be okay because of your actions they might get exposed to this thing that we don't have a vaccine for we don't have universally accepted treatment for and then we need

to ca this is there's two arguments right the one argument is we need to keep going protect the weak protect the sick but let's open up the economy the other argument is stop placing money over human lives and let's shelter in place until we come up with some sort of a decision and let's figure out some way to develop some sort of universal income universal basic income plan or something like that to feed people during the during this time when we make this transition i think there's a yeah um as i said right yeah my opinion is if if somebody wants to stay home they should stay home and say something doesn't want to stay home they should not be compelled to stay home that's my opinion do you think if somebody doesn't like that well that's my opinion um

so the now yeah um the the this notion though that uh you know you can just sort of send checks out everybody and and things will be fine it's not true obviously um the there's some people have this absurd like a view that the economy is like some magic horn of plenty like it it just makes stuff stuff you know whatever it just there's a magic quarter plenty and the goods and services they just come from this magic corner plenty and then if um like if somebody has more stuff than somebody else's because they took more from this magic corner plenty now let me uh just break it to uh the fools out there if you don't make stuff there's no stuff yeah so if you don't make the food if you don't process the food you know transport the food and what the whether

you know medical treatment getting getting your teeth fixed there's no stuff i become detached from reality you can't just legislate money and solve these things if you don't make stuff there is no stuff obviously we'll run out of the stores run out of the you know it's the whole the machine just grinds to a halt but the the initial thought on this virus the real fear was that this was going to kill hundreds of thousands if not millions of people instantaneously in this country it was going to do it very quickly if we didn't hunker down if we didn't shelter in place if we didn't quarantine ourselves or lock down do you think that the initial thought was a good idea based on the perception that this was going to be far more deadly than it turned out to

be maybe i think briefly briefly briefly but uh i think if you know any any kind of like sensible examination of what happened in china would lead to the conclusion that that is obviously not going to occur uh this this virus originated in wuhan there's like i don't know hundred thousand people a day leaving on uh so it that that it it uh it went everywhere very fast through throughout china throughout the rest of the world um and the fatality rate was was low don't you think though it's difficult to appreciate it's it's it's difficult to filter what the information is coming out of china to accurately really get a real true representation of what happened the the propaganda machine is very strong sure what the world health organization appears to have

been complicit with a lot of their propaganda the thing is that american companies have massive supply chains in china like tesla for example we have hundreds of suppliers like tier one two three four suppliers throughout throughout china so we know if they are able to make stuff or not we know if they if they have issues or not then they they're china is back back at full steam um and until many uh pretty much every u.

s company has some significant number of flies in china so you know you know if they're able to you know provide things or not or if there's you know high mortality rate tesla has seven thousand people in china so zero people died um zero okay so that that's a real statistic that's coming from yeah yeah you know those people yeah we literally we're in payroll do you think there's a danger of this same folks are there yeah do you think there's a danger of politicizing this whereas becomes like opening up the country's uh donald trump's it's his goal it's his and then anything he does is sort of uh there's there's people that are going to oppose it and come up with some reasons why he's wrong particularly in this climate whereas as we're leading up november

and you know the the 2020 elections do you think that this is a real danger in terms of uh public's perception that trump wants to open it up so they knee-jerk oppose it because they oppose trump i i think there has been some politician this has been politicized you know in both directions really so it's um which is not great yeah but like i said separate apart from that i think there's the question of like you know where do several civil liberties fit in this picture you know yeah and uh what what what can the government make you do what can they make you not do and what you know what's what's okay right um and uh yeah i think we went too far do you think it's one of those things where once we've gone in a certain direction it's very difficult to make

a correction make a an adjustment to to realize like okay we thought it was one thing it's not it's not good but it's not what we thought it was going to be it's not what we feared so let's let's back up and reconsider let's do this publicly and say we were acting based on the information that we had initially that information appears to be faulty and uh here's how we move forward while protecting civil liberties while protecting what essentially this country was founded on which is a very agreed upon amount of freedom yeah that we respect and appreciate absolutely well i think we're we're rapidly moving towards opening up the country um it's going to happen extremely fast over the next few weeks so yeah something that would be helpful just add from an

informational level is um when reporting uh sort of covet cases to separate out diagnosed with covert versus uh had covert like symptoms yes because the list of symptoms that could be covered at this point is like a mile long so it's like a hard to if you're ill at all it's like it could be covered so just just to give people better information definitely diagnosed with covert or had covered like symptoms we're conflating those two so that one that it looks bigger than it is then uh if somebody dies is was covert a a primary cause of the death or not uh i mean if i mean if somebody has kova gets eaten by a shark we find their arm their arm has covered it's gonna get recorded as a cover death is that real basically not that bad but heart attacks strokes

you get hit by a bug cancer if you if you get hit by a bus go to the go to the hospital and die and then find that you have covered you will be recorded as a cover death why would they do that though well right now the so you know the road is hell is the rotel is paid with good intentions i mean he's mostly paid with bad intentions but there's you know some good intentions saving stones in there too um and the the the stimulus bill that was intended to help uh with the hospitals that were being overrun with with with code patients uh created an incentive to record something as covet that is difficult to say no to especially if your hospital is going bankrupt for lack of other patients so the hospitals are in a bind right now there's a bunch of hospitals

are they're following doctors as you were mentioning they're you know they're your is half full you're it's hard hard to make ends meet so now you've got like you know if i just check this box i get eight thousand dollars put on a ventilator for five minutes i get thirty nine thousand dollars back or or i to fire some doctors so what's the what's this this is a tough moral quandary it's like what you can do that's the situation we have no what what's the way out of this what do you think is like if if you had the president's ear or if people wanted to just listen to you openly what do you think is the way out of this so let's let's clear up the data clear up the data so like i said uh something should be required as code but only if it is uh somebody

has been tested uh has received a positive positive cover test not if they simply have symptoms one of like 100 symptoms and then if if it is a cover death it must be separated or was this was coveted a primary primary reason for death or did they also have stage three cancer heart disease emphysema and got hit by a bus and had covered yeah i've read all this stuff about that about them uh diagnosing people as a covet death despite other variables this is not a this is not a this is not a a question this is what is occurring and where are you reading this from where are you getting this from the public health health officials have literally said this this is not this is not a question mark right but this is never this is unprecedented right like if someone

had the flu but also had a heart attack they would assume that that person died of a heart attack yes yeah so this is unprecedented is this because this is such a a popular i don't i don't want to use that word the wrong way but that's what i mean a popular subject and financial incentives yes and like so this is not some sort of it a moral indictment of of sort of hospital administrators it's just they're in it they're they're in a in a tough in a tough spot here um they actually don't have enough patience to to pay everyone for it to with without following following doctors and and firing staff and yeah they're running potentially going bankrupt so so then they're like okay well the stimulus bill says if you know we get all this you know money if we

say if if they if it's a cover death i'm like okay they coughed before they died in fact they're not even diagnosed with cover they simply if you had weakness a cough uh shortness of breath but frankly i'm not sure how you die without those things yeah you yeah but there's so many different things that you could attribute to covet too there's so many symptoms there's diarrhea headaches dehydration yeah cough yes but to be clear you you don't even need to have gotten a cover diagram you simply need to have had one of many symptoms and then have died for some reason and it's covered so then it makes the death count look very high and then we're then stuck in a bind because it looks like the death count's super high and not going down like it should be and

now so then we we should keep whatever you know keep you know the shelter in place stuff there and and keep people in their home you know confined people to homes so we need to break out of this this we're stuck in a loop yeah and i think the way to break out of this loop is to have clarity of information clarity of information will certainly help but altering perceptions public perception from people that are basically in a panic there's a lot of essentially well at least a month ago we're clearly in a panic i mean right where you know when you look around april 5th april 6th people were really freaking out but here we are may and may people are relaxing a little bit yes they're realizing like hey um i actually know a couple of people that got it it

was just a cough and i know some people that got it where nothing happened i know a lot of people have got it i know zero people who died that i mean about no yeah a lot of people got it yeah it's it's not what we feared we feared something much worse yeah that's correct so the adjustment's difficult to make so you said first of all we need real data we need just just parse out the data don't don't lump it all together no and then if if you give if you get people just parse out the data better clear clearer information um about uh like i said was this an actual code of a diagnosis or was it a or did they get the test and the test came back positive or do they just have some symptoms just parse those two out um and then parse out just uh if somebody died

did they die did they did they even have a covet test or or did they just have one of many symptoms like like like how do you die without weakness i don't know right it's impossible basically yeah it's a good point if you're gonna die you're gonna have shortness of breath weakness and you might cough a little um so so was it quantified what was it yeah that person did they actually have a covert test and and the tests come back positive and then um if if they died did they uh die where where covert was um it didn't have to be the main course but it was a significant contributor to their death or was it not a significant contributor to the death right it's not as simple as just because you had covet covet killed you definitely not right yeah yeah i mean

people die all the time and they have like flu and yes you know other colds and well we don't say that they died of those flu and other colds well that's what's so weird absolutely it's so popular and i use that word in a weird way but it's so popular that we've kind of forgotten people die pneumonia every day yeah people die of the flu didn't take a break oh kovitz got this i'm gonna sit this one out i'm gonna be on the bench i'm gonna wait until kovitz done before i jump back into the game of killing people no the flu is still here killing people i mean ev every year in the world several hundred thousand people die directly of the flu yeah not not tangentially right not every 61 000 in this country last year yeah and we're only five percent of the world

and then there's cigarettes so oh man cigarettes not cigarettes will really kill you that's a weird one right we're terrified of this disease that were projected it could potentially kill 100 if not 200 000 americans this year with cigarettes kill 500 000 and you don't hear a peep out of any politician there's no one running for congress is trying to ban cigarettes there's no one running for senate that wants to put some education plan in place it's going to stop cigarettes in their tracks yeah i mean a long time like several years ago i mean along with 10 10 years ago i helped make a movie cold thank you for smoking oh i saw that yeah um it it yeah um yeah it's crazy uh smoking barbecuing alongside just bad news it's not not good you know you're turning

your lungs into smoke smoked beef and not great um so um yeah tylenol by the way also kills a lot of people yeah what is the number for tylenol over here um i'm not sure the exact number but i believe it until the opioid crisis i believe tylenol was the number one killer of all drugs um because wow basically it's uh if you have if you get drunk and take a lot of tylenol um acetaminophen essentially it causes liver failure so sevilla would like get get wasted and then like have a headache and then pop a tonic tylenol gardens whoa yeah curtains is a funny word yeah you know so but nobody's like you know raging against tylenol yeah it's weird except acceptable deaths are weird and that's the real the slippery slope about this uh people shaming people for

wanting to go back to work you know other people are gonna die well if you drive do you drive oh well you should stop driving because people die from driving so you know you definitely should fill up all the swimming pools because like 50 people die every day in this country from swimming so let's not swim anymore yeah what is the really dangerous we need to chop down all the coconuts coconuts kill 150 people every year yes cut down all the coconut trees we need those people yes it's at a certain point in time it's like we yeah we're vulnerable and we're also we we're also we have a finite existence no matter what we do nobody lives forever right um i mean the the the i mean i think you want to look at say deaths as like the but for this uh disease whatever

they would have lived x number of years yeah you know so um you know if somebody dies when they're they're they're 20 and could live till 80 they they lost 60 years but if somebody dies when they're 80 and they might live until 81 they last one year yes so it's it's like how many life years were lost uh is is a probably you know the right metric to use i don't uh read my own comments but i do read other people's comments and i was reading this one little twitter beef that was going on where someone was saying that kovid takes an average of 10 years off people's lives and we should appreciate those 10 years and then someone else said that's not true i'm sure it's not true yeah definitely it's the twitter but someone else said the average age of people

who die from covid is older than the average age people die it's very let's say just say it's like it's it's about the same that's a beautiful way of looking at it i mean it's it's unfortunate it sucks but it sucks if grandpa dies of alzheimer's or emphysema or leukemia it sucks sure it sucks when someone you love dies yes but i i'm i mean actually if if this uh i think a lesson to be taken here that i think is quite important is that if um if you have you know your great grandparents and their their age and grandparents really be careful with uh with with uh you know any kind of flu or cold or something that that wouldn't is not dangerous to kids or young adults but is dangerous too to help the elderly is um if basically if your kids got a runny nose

they should stay away from their grandparents no matter what it is it's it's uh the things that are where a young immune system is has no problem and an older one has has a problem yeah and um in fact a lot of the a lot of the deaths are just are literally it's tragic but they're they're intra family um it's the the the little little kid had it had a you know called or flew and give it to grandpa yeah yeah they have the family gathering and they don't know that this is a big deal but it's it's just important to remember when you get older your immune system is just not that strong and uh and and so just be be careful with your with with your you know loved ones or elderly and i think there is some true objective um understanding of the immune system and

the ways to boost that immune system and i really think that that that information should be that should be distributed in a way a non-judgmental way but like look this is this is a way that we can all like this is a scientifically proven way that we can boost our immune system and it might save your life and it might save the life of your loved ones and maybe we could teach this to our grandparents and our parents and and people that are vulnerable you know vitamin c heat shock proteins all these different variables that we know contribute to a stronger immune system yeah um actually just um a thing that that is is is tough uh if like when you as you get older it's it's hard to be you pretend to put on weight you know i certainly that's happening with

me you know like as the older i get i'm like damn it's harder to stay lean uh that's for sure um and and so actually being being overweight is is a big deal yeah just uh it's a fact uh well yeah the new york hospital said it was the number one factor for severe uh kovid symptoms was obesity that was number one factor it is that that's yes exactly but it's also we live in a world where people want to be sensitive to other people's feelings so yeah absolutely we don't want to bring up the fact that being fat's bad for you it's a judgment on your food's great yeah i do love food yeah and i mean i mean to be totally frank i mean speaking for myself i'd i'd rather eat tasty food and live a shorter life yeah you know yeah those moments of enjoying a great meal

yeah and then even talking about they're valuable they're worth something yeah it's not we don't want to eat soylent green and live to be 160.

tasty if it was great one of the best things about life it really is yeah it's an art form as well it's like fine food it's a it's a it's a it's a delicious sand castle it's temporary it doesn't last very long but there's something about it that's very pleasing yeah yeah um yeah i mean i i don't know what what advice to give like um maybe smaller have tasty food with smaller amounts of it yeah and i think regulated feeding windows really the way to go some sort of an intermittent fasting approach sure when i started doing that i i i i found myself to be quite a bit healthier when i've deviated from that i've gained weight so how what's what's uh 16 hours well 16 hours yeah so like at night or yeah yeah yeah so i get to a certain point and then i count

out i usually uh hit the stopwatch on my phone and then i look at uh 15 hours and i'm like okay got an hour before i can eat yeah and so anything in between that is just water or coffee actually you know like um this may be a useful bit of advice for for people but uh eating before you go to bed is a real bad idea and actually negatively affects your sleep yeah um and it can actually cause uh it heartburn that you don't even know is happening and and that subtle heartburn uh affects your sleep because you're you're horizontal and your body's digesting so if you want to improve the quality of your sleep um and and um you know uh you know be healthier uh it's it's do not eat right before we go to sleep yeah it's like one of the worst things you could do

i had some of the biggest mistakes i've ever met i've i've done that uh particularly after comedy shows i'm starving i'll come home and i'll eat and then i go to bed and i just feel like and i wake up in the middle of the night it's gonna it's gonna crush your sleep and it's gonna it's gonna damage your uh pilot your pyloric sphincter and your esophagus and it's it's it's so in fact drinking and then going to sleep is that's one of the worst things you could yes um so uh just try to avoid drinking and and you know um small amounts of alcohol that evidence suggests it's not it doesn't have a negative effect i put in the same category as delicious food it kind of makes things a little more fun yeah yeah i like it i mean some of the people some of the people

who have left the longest you know um there's a woman in france who i think maybe has the record or close to it and she had a glass of wine every day every day you know yeah small small amounts is fine um but um yeah this is like a i i learned this like quite late in life it's like just avoid having alcohol and avoid eating at least two or three hours before going to sleep and your quality of life will your quality of sleep will improve and your general health will improve a lot for sure this is a it's a big deal and i think not widely not widely known do you have time to exercise um a little bit um do you train or anything um i do although i haven't seen for a while but um yeah especially yeah from out like uh you know say we're working on starship or

something in south texas and i'm just living in my i got a little little house there in bukuchika village um and i don't have much to do so we're like i'm working and i was like dude just lift some weights or something you know um maybe uh i i i like i don't some people love running i don't love running um but what do you like to do exercise wise um too totally frank i wouldn't exercise at all if i could but if if i i'd prefer not to exercise but if i'm going to exercise and you know lift some weights and um and then kind of run on the treadmill and maybe watch a show that you know if there's a compelling show that like pulls you in right right right yeah that's a good thing to do yeah watch a good movie or yeah yeah episode of black mirror or something

like that that's great man don't watch black mirror before going to bed either well don't watch black mirror today it's too accurate yeah exactly it's like wait this already happened in real life yeah they're too close it's too close well even didn't jamie did you say that the the guy who makes black mirror mics off uh yeah yeah he said he it's not a good time to start season six yeah he wants to hold off because reality he's nailed it is black mirror oh man it's like he's gonna have to like re reassess and and attack it from a different angle yeah you should try something that's fun to do that's not just like like learn a martial art or something like that i did martial arts when i was kid like did you would you um i did taekwondo i did karate uh kaika

shrinkai all right cool and um judo um also you you really branched out yeah um so um and did brazilian jiu jitsu briefly did you yeah where i made in palo alto really yeah oh no i was gonna suggest that that's a great thing for people like that's a thing about jiu jitsu if you look at it from the outside you think oh a bunch of meat heads strangling each other sure but they're some of the smartest people i know or jiu jitsu fiends because they they get they first of all they get introduced to it because usually either they want to exercise or learn some self-defense but then they realize that it's essentially like a language with your body like you're having an argument with someone with some sort of a physical language and it's really complex and the

more access to vocabulary and the sharper your words are sure the the more you'll succeed in these ventures that's really also an accurate analogy of what jiu jitsu is yeah i mean i kind of i mean probably like a lot of people uh for the the way uh early day uh the first mma fights and joyce gracie and he was like incredible and it was like just like technique yeah yeah it was like you know winning against people way bigger and that kind of thing it's just like oh this is cool it was what martial arts were supposed to be when we were as we were kids yeah when you saw bruce lee up all these big giant guys like wow martial arts allow you to beat someone far bigger and stronger than you right most of the time that's not real especially if they know martial

arts too it's like oh no yes but in the ufc when hoist gracie off of his back was strangling dan severin with his legs he was like holy yeah this guy's being pinned by this big giant wrestler and he wraps his legs around his neck and chokes him to the point the guy has to surrender yeah amazing yeah it was amazing i mean horse got beaten up pretty bad in some of those he did well he definitely had some rough fights but he won he won yeah he's a legend and but what it showed in i mean i'm a huge lover of jiu jitsu what it showed is that there is a method for uh for diffusing these situations with technique and and knowledge yeah and i think it's also a great way to exercise too because it's almost like the exercise is secondary to the learning of the thing

the the exercises like you want like and you want to develop strength and conditioning just so that you could be better at doing the thing and the analogy that i use is like if you imagine if you had a race car and you could actually give the race car better handling and more horsepower just from your own focus and effort sure that's really what it's like yeah totally yeah when am i going to have my my kids i should say i sent my kids to uh jiu jitsu uh since they were like i don't know six oh really yeah oh that's awesome yeah it's it's a great thing to learn it really is seems like a good yes yeah maybe something like i mean even if you just have someone who hits that holds the pads for you like you get a workout in and to be fun um when am i going

to be able to buy one of them roadsters when's that happening well i can't you know say exactly when but uh we got to get you know those this cover thing's kind of throwing us for a loop i'm sure um so um not to blame everything in the code but um it's you know certainly set us back on on progress for you know some number of months um the i mean things we've got to get get done uh ahead of roadster are um you know ramping up model y production um that'll be a great great car it is a great car getting the berlin gigafactory built and and also building y getting expanding the shanghai factory which is going great and um get the you know there's a cyber truck semi truck roadster um roaster is kind of like dessert so like we we gotta get the you know eating

potatoes and greens and stuff you know like but roaster comes before cyber truck i mean i think we should do cyber truck first before before road before started interesting i'm not mad at that some other things for roadster uh they're they're you know the tri-motor uh plaid powertrain we're gonna have that in model s uh so that's like part one of the ingredients that's needed for for roadsters the the plaid powertrain the more advanced bat you know battery vacuum kind of thing i wanted to ask you about this before i forgot what there's a company that's called apex is taking your teslas and they're giving it a wider base and wider tires and a little bit more advanced suspension sure how do you feel about that are you guys do you work with them are you

cool with those people yeah i mean just i'm off yeah go ahead they're jazzing stuff up with carbon fiber and doing a bunch of interior choices you're cool with you can't with that you don't have time so is it good that someone comes along and has a sort of specialty operation yeah i got no problem that's what it's called right it's like jmg is it called apex yeah i gotta unplug performance as apex that's right unplug performance yeah yeah you could for sure um you know lighten the car up and uh improve to tire traction and have you seen that company's stuff what they do i don't know specifically but there's it's pretty dope yeah they make a pretty dope looking they take model s and they they widen it and give it a bunch of carbon fiber that's it right

there that looks pretty nice yeah it does now the the plaid version of the model s you are you going to widen the track and doing a bunch do a bunch of different i know you guys are testing at the nurburgring can you not talk about that well i think we got to leave that for you know proper sort of product unveil i understand yeah i understand um last time you were here you convinced me to buy a tesla i bought it and it's insane oh great glad you like it um i don't it's not just pretty fun it's like i the way i've described it is it makes other cars seem stupid they just seem dumb like i love dumb things i love dumb cars like i love campfires yeah i love campfires i have a 1993 porsche that's air-cooled sure it's like re it's not that fast it's really

slow compared to the tesla yeah really so it's really quite slow yeah but there's something engaging about the mechanical this is like the the gears and it's very it's very analog but it's so stupid in comparison to the tesla like when i want to go somewhere in the model s i hit the gas and just goes yeah it just it like violates time yeah yeah um yeah you've tried it like ludicrous plus and stuff yeah yeah cool oh yeah we did just did a software update where it'll do it like a cheetah stance so uh yeah so it's it because it's got a dynamic air suspension so it lowers the back oh jesus yeah just like uh like a sprinter basically right like what do you do if you're a sprinter you're going to hunker down and then uh so i shaved like a 10th of a second off

zero six i mean like you know it is pretty fun it's so i've taken so many people and i'm like i take them for the holy moment i'm like you ready like hang on there and then a stomp on the gas i've never felt anything like it it's confusing yeah it really is the the instant torque the instant torque and just the sheer acceleration is baffling it's baffling it's baffling they've never felt it no it's faster than falling it's crazy it's so fast it's a roller coaster yeah and my family yells at me when i stomp the gas like um i tell my kids i'm like you want to feel it you want to feel it like do it do it do it my wife's like don't do it yeah and even if i just do it on the highway for a couple of seconds that's pretty exciting yeah it's very it's like having

a roller coaster on tap you know it really is like a roller coaster on top yeah without the loopty loops but it's the the pinning to your seat it seems like you're not supposed to be able to experience that from some sort of a can you know a consumer vehicle that you can just a regular person could buy if you have the money it seems too too crazy and then the idea of this roadster is a half of a second faster than that yeah that's madness well if that roads with a roadster we're going to do some things that are kind of unfair so we're going to take some things from like you know from uh kind of like rock rocket world and put them on the car so oh i read about that explain that like what do you do well like i said we can't oh the product unveiled right

here but but it's gonna do some things that aren't fair and then the the when we do the unveil of the roadster let me just say that anyone who's been waiting they won't be sorry it's they won't be sorry oh i'm sure well anything that goes zero to sixty what is it one point nine is that the zero 0-60 that's the base model that's good what's the top of the food chain model okay okay faster than that let's just say faster yeah that seems so crazy to me now what was it like when the dude threw the steel balls at the window and they were supposed to not break and it broke well yeah i mean i know any circumstances are you know you know that our demos are authentic [Laughter] so i was not expecting that and i and then i think i muttered under my breath you didn't

get mad though no you didn't steve jobs it um no i i i definitely swore uh but you know i didn't think the mic would pick it up but it did um and uh but so like we practiced this you know behind the scenes yeah i would like it tesla we don't do we don't do like tons of practice for for our demos because we we work we're working on the cars like we you know we're building new technologies and and improving the the fundamental products so we're not spending it like doing like hundreds of you know practice things or anything like that we don't have time for that um but the the just hours before the demo um both franz uh you know uh is a head of design and and i were in the studio throwing steel balls at the window and it's bouncing right off um and like

okay this seems pretty good seems like we got it okay um and then we think what happened was that um when we when when franz hit the the the door with the sledgehammer you know sure like like this is this is like yeah yeah yeah exoskeleton you know high strength hardened steel you can literally take wind up with a sledgehammer you know full double-handed sledgehammer and hit the door and there's not even a dent it's cool but we think that that cracked the corner of the glass at the bottom and then once you crack the corner of the glass that you just came over so uh then when you threw the bowl that that's what cracked the glass so it didn't go through though it didn't go through that's true that's true it didn't shatter the whole thing like a regular

window would either which would just dissolve yeah right so in hindsight the ball should have been first sledgehammer second yeah yeah you live you learn yeah exactly listen man uh we've taken up a lot of your time you had a child yeah recently it's amazing that you had the time to come down here and i really appreciate that i appreciate everything you do man i i'm i'm glad you're out there and uh i really appreciate you coming down here and sharing your perspective well i think you got a great show thanks for having me on thank you my pleasure my pleasure elon musk ladies and gentlemen good night all right that should get a little i should get a little play that was great