好的，好吧，各位晚上好。欢迎，埃隆，感谢你来到这里。谢谢你邀请我。我们觉得、我们觉得非常荣幸，也很高兴你能来。好，那么我先问一些问题，然后我们会开放提问。让我直接进入正题。所以比尔·加特说，在我们这个时代，没有人比你更能推动科学创新的边界。嗯，这算是，可以说，嗯，就是这样，任何人这样评价你都是件好事，出自比尔·盖茨之口就更好了。但奇怪的是，在 AI 方面，实际上大约 10 年来，你做的几乎恰恰相反，一直在说，等一下，我们需要思考自己正在做什么、正在推动什么，以及我们怎样才能让这件事安全，而且、而且实际上也许我们不应该

像现在这样推动得如此快或如此用力。比如，我的意思是，你已经这样做了 10 年。是什么让你开始以这种方式思考？以及，你知道，我们为什么需要担忧？是的，我有相当长一段时间有点像卡珊德拉，嗯，在那期间、期间，我会告诉人们，比如我们真的应该担忧 AI。他们会说，你在说什么？就像，他们从未真正接触过、接触过 AI。但因为我沉浸在，嗯，技术之中，我已经沉浸在技术中很长时间了，我能看到它正在到来。嗯，所以，呃，但我认为今年出现了许多、许多突破。我的意思是，你知道，当一个人可以看到一段动态生成的自己的视频时，嗯，你知道，比如有人可以制作一段你的视频

实时说任何话，嗯，或者我，嗯，而且，呃，所以那种深度 Pake 视频真的好得令人难以置信，事实上有时比真的还更有说服力，嗯，还有深度真实，嗯，而且，嗯，然后，然后显然还有像 CH GPT 这样的东西，确实相当了不起。现在，我见过 gpt1、gpt2、gpt3、gp4，你知道，见证了整个这种逐步发展到那一步的过程，所以对我来说，很容易就能，嗯，大致看出它将走向何方。如果你只是沿着一条曲线外推这些点，并假设这种趋势会持续下去，那么我们将拥有，嗯，深刻的人工智能，而且显然其水平会远远超过人类智能，嗯，所以，嗯，但我很高兴看到，在这一点上，呃，人们正在认真对待安全问题，而我，我想，呃，感谢你们举办这场 AI 安全

会议。我认为，事实上，它将在历史上被视为非常重要。我认为这，这确实相当意义深远，嗯，而且，嗯，而且，而且我的确认为，总体而言，人工智能 AI 有潜力，嗯，最有可能产生积极影响，嗯，并创造一个富足的未来，在那里商品和服务不再稀缺，嗯，但，但这多少有点像那个，那个神奇精灵的问题：如果你有一个能实现所有愿望的神奇精灵，嗯，通常那些故事，嗯，都不会有好结局。许愿时要小心，包括愿望。是的，是的。所以你，你，你稍微谈到了，谈到了这次峰会，也感谢你参与其中，这非常好，大家也很高兴你在那里参与这场对话。现在

我们今天在企业与领导人之间的会议上取得的成果之一，是达成了一项共识：在模型发布之前，理想情况下应由外部，也就是政府，对模型进行安全测试。我认为这是你稍微谈到过的事情，也是我们一直非常努力推动的事情，因为，你知道，我在政府中的职责就是说，等一下，这里存在一种潜在风险，不是，不是确定的风险，而是某种可能会造成恶劣后果的潜在风险。你知道，我的职责是保护国家。是的，那就是，而我们只有发展安全研究所所需的能力，然后介入并确保能在模型发布之前对其进行测试，才能做到这一点。很高兴这件事今天实现了，但你知道，你的

看法是什么，我们应该做些什么？对吧，你谈到了潜在风险。对吧，再说一次，我们并不知道，但你知道，像我们这样的政府应该做哪些类型的事情，来管理并缓解这些风险？嗯，我总体上认为，当公共安全面临风险时，由政府发挥作用是有益的。所以，嗯，你知道，对于绝大多数软件来说，嗯，公共安全并不会面临风险。我的意思是，如果，如果，呃，你手机或笔记本电脑上的应用程序崩溃了，那并不是一场，一场巨大的灾难，嗯，但当你谈论数字超级智能时，我认为它确实会给公众带来风险，那么政府就应当发挥作用，维护公众利益。而且，而且这当然适用于很多领域

嗯，你知道，航空、汽车，你知道，我，我与世界各地的监管机构打交道，呃，因为，嗯，失速属于通信，火箭属于航空航天，而汽车，你知道，属于 TR 车辆运输。所以我非常熟悉与，与监管机构打交道，嗯，而且事实上，我同意绝大多数监管规定。偶尔有少数几项我不同意，但我不同意的监管规定大概只有 0.1%，或者不到 1%。所以，嗯，硅谷有些人对此有些担忧，他们，他们以前从未与监管机构打过交道，并认为这只会扼杀创新，而且，而且拖慢他们的速度，还会令人厌烦。但，而且，而且，呃，它确实会令人厌烦，这是事实，嗯，他们在这点上没有说错，嗯，但，但，但我认为这里有

我们多年来已经认识到，呃，有裁判是一件好事。如果你看任何体育比赛，总会有一名，一名裁判，而且，而且我想没有人会建议举行一场没有裁判的体育比赛，嗯，而且，而且我认为正确的思考方式是，让，嗯，让政府充当一名，一名裁判，确保遵守体育道德，而且，而且，而且公共安全得到，嗯，你知道，得到处理，确保我们重视公共安全，因为我认为有时人们可能对技术过于乐观，而我是以一名技术专家的身份这样说的。我的意思是，所以我应该清楚，嗯，而且，而且，呃，而且，而且正如我说过的，总体权衡下来，我认为 AI 最有可能会是一种可强制实施的善，但它走向坏结果的概率并不是 0%。是的，所以我们，我们只

需要缓解潜在的负面结果，然后你谈到了裁判，而那正是我们正在尝试的，对吧。是的，好，就是这样。我的意思是，你知道，而且我们谈过这个，Demus 和我很久以前就讨论过这件事，比如确实直面，就在，而且事实上，你知道，值得肯定的是，Demus 以及业内人士确实对我们这样说过。我，你知道，de 当时说，让 Demus 和他的同事批改自己的作业是不对的，对吧，需要有独立的人来做，而这就是我们在这里建立安全研究所的原因。我的意思是，你认为政府能够培养这种专业能力吗？我们需要做的事情之一就是说，等一下，你知道，Demis、Sam 以及其他所有人都有很多非常聪明的人在做这件事，政府需要

迅速在能力方面、人员方面把工具配备起来，而这正是我们正在做的。我的意思是，考虑到技术发展得如此迅速，你认为政府有可能足够快地做到这一点吗？或者，我们需要做些什么，才能确保我们的确能足够快地做到？不，我认为这是，这是一个好问题，这是你提出的一个很棒的观点，嗯，AI 发展的速度远远超过我在历史上见过的任何技术，嗯，而且它，它的能力似乎每年至少增长 5倍，也许是 10倍。明年它肯定会增长一个数量级。是的，所以，嗯，所以，而且，而且政府不习惯以这种速度行动，嗯，但我，但我认为，即使没有，嗯，明确的监管规定，嗯，即使没有，即使没有执法能力，仅仅

掌握情况并能够向公众指出令人担忧的问题，也会非常有力，嗯，所以即使只实现了这一点，我认为也会非常、非常好。好的，是的，嗯，希望我们能比这做得更好。希望如此。是的，不，但这其实很有帮助。我们之前在谈，这一点很引人注目，你，你是一个一生都在技术领域、伴随摩尔定律生活的人，而过去几天与所有正在进行这项开发的人交谈时，有意思的是，而且我想你会同意这一点，就是这里的进步速度不同于你们所有人在自己的职业生涯和技术领域见过的任何事物，这么说公平吗？因为硬件、数据以及人员会产生这些类似复合的效应。是的，嗯

我的意思是，这 2个，嗯，目前 AI 开发的 2个领先中心是 C Isco 湾区和这种伦敦地区，嗯，而且还有很多其他地方也在开展这项工作，但这 2个地区处于领先地位。所以我认为，如果，嗯，你知道，如果美国和英国，嗯，以及，以及中国在，嗯，在安全问题上大致保持一致，那一切都会是一件好事，因为确实，那就是，那就是领导力总体所在的地方。我，我是说，事实上你提到了中国，所以我决定邀请中国参加过去几天的峰会，而这并不是一个容易的决定，很多人因此批评我。你知道，我的看法是，如果你打算尝试进行严肃的对话，你就需要，但我，你有什么想法，你

在世界各地开展业务，你刚才也谈到了这一点。是的，你知道，我们应该与他们接触吗？我们能信任他们吗？这样做是正确的吗？如果，如果中国不参与，呃，AI 安全，这多少会形成一种情绪局面。嗯，我听到的对于任何形式的 AI 监管或，或这类安全控制的最大反对意见，都是说，中国不会这样做，因此他们只会跃居领先地位，并全面超过我们，嗯，但，但事实上，中国愿意参与，呃，参与 AI 安全，嗯，也感谢你邀请他们，而且我，而且他们，你知道，我，我认为我们应该感谢中国出席，嗯。今年早些时候，当我，当我在中国时，我与，与中国领导层讨论的主要议题

是 AI 安全，并告诉他们，这，这确实是他们，他们应该关心的事情，而且，嗯，他们认真对待了，而且，而且，而且，嗯，而且你们也是，这很好，嗯，我认为让他们来到这里确实至关重要。如果他们，如果他们不参与，那就，呃，毫无意义。毫无意义。是的，不，那，而且我认为我们很高兴，我，他们昨天参与了讨论，事实上最终还签署了与其他所有人相同的公报。那很好。这是一个好的停顿，对吧，而且我说过，如果我们要有，我认为，切实解决这个问题的机会，就需要所有人以类似的方式来对待我们。我本来要，你刚才谈到了创新，还有，而且监管令人厌烦，今天有一场很好的辩论

我们谈到了开源，而我认为你、你在某种程度上一直是算法透明度的支持者，并让一些、一些 X 的算法公开，而且实际上我们进来的路上谈到了杰弗里·辛顿，是的，你知道，他、他尤其一直非常担心开源模型被不良行为者利用，也有一群人说，它们对于以那种分布式方式发生的创新至关重要，听着，这、这很棘手，可能没有完美的答案，而且存在一种难以把握的平衡，你认为我们应该如何处理这个开源问题，或者说，你知道，我们应该把即将采取的任何监管或监测措施对准哪里？嗯，开源的，嗯，算法和数据往往落后于闭源的

6到12个月，嗯，但所以，所以存在，不过考虑到改进的速度，因此闭源和开源之间实际上有相当大的差距。嗯，如果性能提升了，比如说5倍或更多，嗯，那么落后1年就意味着你差了5倍，所以差别相当大，而这或许其实是一种还可以的情况。嗯，但它肯定会发展到这样一个阶段：开源的，嗯，AI能够做到，会开始接近人类水平的智能，或许会接替它。嗯，我不太清楚该怎么办。我认为这是有些不可避免的，会有一定数量的开源，而我，我，我想我会稍微偏向开源，呃，因为至少你能看到

正在发生什么，而闭源的话，你不知道正在发生什么。现在应该说明的是，对于AI，即使它是开源的，你真的知道正在发生什么吗？因为如果你有一个巨大的数据文件，以及，嗯，你知道，某种数十亿个数据点、权重和参数，呃，你不能只是读一遍就看出它会做什么。那是一个由难以理解的数字组成的巨大文件。嗯，你可以在运行它时测试它，你可以测试它，可以运行一大批测试来看看它会做什么，但它是概率性的，而不是，嗯，确定性的。它不像传统编程，在那里你有，你有非常离散的逻辑，而且结果非常可预测，你可以逐行阅读，看看每一行将要

做什么。嗯，呃，神经网络就只是一大堆概率。嗯，我是说，它最后有点变成了一个巨大的逗号分隔值文件。就像我们的数字指南其实是一个CSP文件。好吧，嗯，但那差不多就是它的本质，是的。现在，你刚才提出的那一点，是我们一直在大量讨论的一点，因为同样，在与开发这项技术的人交谈时，他们也会提出你刚才提出的观点：它不像普通软件那样，输入的改进会可预测地带来这个特定输出的改进；随着模型不断迭代和改进，我们不太知道另一端会产出什么。我想德米斯会同意这一点，这就是为什么我认为存在这种，呃，倾向：看，我们需要在

训练运行正在进行、模型发布之前就介入，以了解这次新的迭代在能力方面带来了什么。听起来你会，呃，会同意这一点。我本来想稍微换个话题。你知道，你谈了很多人类意识、人类能动性，这实际上可能会让人们觉得奇怪，因为你以在技术方面如此杰出的创新者、技术专家而闻名。但当我听你谈论它，以及在技术中维持这种能动性和保护人类意识的重要性时，我能感到这是发自内心的。现在，这和我本来要问的事情有些关联：当我做采访，或者在这份工作中和外面遇到的人谈论AI时，实际上最常被提到的事情

可能不是我们一直讨论的这些，而是工作。那就是：AI对我的工作意味着什么？它会不会意味着我没有工作了，或者我的孩子们不会有工作？现在，你知道，作为一个，你，政策制定者、领导者，我的回答是，你知道，实际上AI已经在创造工作岗位，你可以从那些正在起步的公司中看到这一点。另外，它的使用方式更多一点是作为副驾驶，而不一定是取代人。人类能动性仍然存在，但它在帮助你把工作做得更好，这是一件好事。而且，正如我们在过去的技术革命中看到的，劳动力市场显然会发生变化。关于工作岗位的数量，我今天引用了麻省理工学院几年前做的一项研究，大概是

当时60%的工作岗位在40年前并不存在，所以很难预测。而我的工作是建立一个卓越的教育体系，无论是在学校里，还是在人们职业生涯的任何阶段对他们进行再培训，因为归根结底，如果我们拥有技术熟练的人口，他们就能够跟上变化的速度并过上美好生活。但你知道，这仍然是一个担忧，而你知道，你对于AI、它对劳动力市场和人们工作的影响，以及人们在思考这件事时应该有何感受，会有怎样的观察？嗯，我认为我们正在这里看到历史上最具颠覆性的力量。嗯，你知道，我们第一次拥有，我们将第一次拥有某种比最聪明的人类更聪明的东西。嗯，而且

那，我是说，很难确切说那个时刻是什么时候，但终将有一个时刻，届时不再需要任何工作。如果你想要一份工作，出于某种个人满足感，你可以有一份工作，但AI将能够做一切。所以我不知道这会让人们感到舒服还是不舒服，这……[笑声] 这，你知道，这就是为什么，这就是为什么我说，如果，如果你，如果你希望有一个能满足你任何愿望的魔法精灵，而且没有限制，你没有那种3个的限制、只能许3个愿望的胡扯，你想许多少愿望就有多少愿望。嗯，所以，呃，它既好又坏。嗯，未来的挑战之一将是：如果，如果你有一个能做你想要的一切的精灵，我们要如何找到生活的意义？我，我，我确实认为我们，我们，这，这，这很难

你知道，当，当，当这种新技术出现时，它往往通常会遵循一条S曲线，而在这种情况下，我们将在S曲线的指数增长部分停留很长时间。嗯，而且你，比如，你将能够要求任何东西。不会是，我们不会有全民基本收入，我们会有全民高收入。所以在某种，在某种意义上，它多少会起到拉平差距的作用，嗯，或者说成为一种平衡器。你知道，因为实际上我认为每个人都会有机会使用这个魔法精灵。嗯，而且你能够问任何问题。它肯定会有利于教育。你，它会是你能拥有的最好的导师，我是最有耐心的导师，呃，整天坐在那里。嗯，而且，呃，商品和服务不会短缺，那将是一个富足的时代。嗯，我想，如果要我推荐人们阅读，呃，在班克斯

那些班克斯的“文明”系列书籍可能是对AI未来最好的想象。事实上，不是可能，它们绝对是遥遥领先的最佳想象。嗯，没有任何东西能与之接近。所以我会推荐，真的推荐范克斯。我是他的超级书迷。嗯，他所有的书都很好。嗯，没有说具体哪一本，全部。嗯，所以，所以那，那会让你感受到一种，我猜，相当乌托邦式或原托邦式的，嗯，拥有AI的未来。是的，嗯，从某种角度看这是好事，正如你所说，这是全民高收入，这个说法很好，而且那从一种物质主义的意义上来说是好事，一种富足。实际上，它随后就会引出你提出的问题，对吧？我是一个相信，你知道，工作赋予你意义的人，对吧？我经常思考这一点，因为，因为你知道，我认为工作

是一件好事。它，你知道，赋予人们生活目标，而如果你接着移除其中很大一部分，你知道，那意味着什么？你又从哪里获得那种，你知道，你从哪里获得那种驱动力、那种动力、那种目标？我是说，你刚才谈到了这一点，你，你工作很多个小时。我确实如此。不，正如我之前在我们，我们早些时候交谈时提到的，我必须在某种程度上刻意暂停怀疑，嗯，因为我正把如此多的鲜血、汗水和泪水投入到一个工作项目中，并熬到，你知道，凌晨3:00。

m.

的油，嗯，然后，嗯，我就想，等等，我为什么要这么做？我可以直接等AI来做。我只是在毫无理由地鞭打自己。是的。嗯，肯定是什么贪恋惩罚之类的。嗯，所以我们打、打电话给德默斯，告诉他快一点、快一点，然后你就可以去度假了，对吧？这就是计划。是的。不，这是一件，这是一件棘手的事，因为我认为，你知道，我们工作的一部分是确保我们能够走向你所描述的那个，我认为总体上非常积极的地方，并在从现在到那时的过程中帮助人们，因为正如我们所看到的，这些事情会给劳动力市场带来大量变化。是的。嗯，我认为它总体上可能是一件好事，因为，你知道，有很多工作是不舒服的、危险的，或者某种单调乏味的

嗯，而计算机做这些完全没有问题，会很乐意整天做这些。所以，嗯，你知道，做饭很有趣，但洗碗就没那么有趣了，比如，但计算机会非常乐意洗碗。嗯，我，我想存在，嗯，你知道，我们仍然有，呃，体育运动，比如在其中，在其中，在其中人类彼此竞争，就像奥运会，而显然，嗯，机器可以比任何人类跑得更快，但我们仍然有，呃，我们仍然有人类彼此比赛。嗯，而且，呃，而且有所有这些，你知道，彼此之间的体育竞赛，尽管机器更出色，他们仍然，我想，是在竞争看谁能在某件事上成为最优秀的人类。是的。嗯，而且，而且人们确实能从中找到满足感。所以我想，那或许是一个，一个很好的例子，说明即使

当机器比我们更快、比我们更强时，我们仍然会找到一种方式，我们仍然、我们仍然喜欢与其他人类竞争，至少要看看谁是最优秀的人类。是的，那是、那是一个很好的、那是一个很好的类比。我们一直在谈论很多有关管理风险的事情。在我们继续并结束人工智能这个话题之前，我只是想稍微谈谈这些机会。你知道，你正在与许多不同的公司接触，纽尔显然就是其中一家，它正在做、正在做一些令人兴奋的事情。我，你谈到了可能最令我兴奋的事情，也就是教育。是的，我想很多人都看过S·汗今年早些时候的视频，就是他的TED演讲，正如你谈到的，它就像私人导师。是的，私人导师，一位了不起的私人导师。

一位出色的私人导师，而我们知道，在学习过程中，有那样一位个性化导师，与课堂学习相比，差别大得不可思议。如果每个孩子都能拥有一位专门为他们服务的私人导师，然后随着时间推移与他们一同演进，那可能会非同寻常。所以，你知道，对我而言，我看着这一点会想，天啊，在这个时候，这已经触手可及了。而且，而且这是让我最兴奋的好处之一。比如，当你审视你所看到的各种可能性时，什么是，你知道，你尤其感到兴奋的？我，我认为，AI，AI 特尔肯定会非常出色，嗯，或许已经是了。呃，我认为或许还会有陪伴，这可能显得奇怪，因为计算机怎么可能真的成为你的朋友，但是

如果你，如果你拥有一个有记忆的 AI，你知道，它记得你所有的互动，而且读过每一件，你可以说，比如，允许它阅读你曾经做过的一切，于是它真的会比任何人都更了解你，或许甚至比你自己更了解你。嗯，而且，而且，而且你可以每天和它交谈，而那些对话会在彼此之上斯波尔德，你实际上会拥有一个很棒的朋友。嗯，只要那个朋友能够一直做你的朋友，而不会被关闭或诸如此类的。别关闭我的朋友。嗯，但我认为那实际上会成为现实。嗯，而且，嗯，我有一个，我的一个儿子算是有一些学习障碍，实际上不太会交朋友。而且，而且我当时想，嗯，你知道，他，一个 AI 朋友实际上会非常适合他。哦，好吧，你知道，这

这是个令人意外的回答，实际上值得，呃，值得思考，真的很有意思，伊恩。我们其实已经看到了这一点，因为我们现在提供，你知道，心理治疗，无论如何，现在更多是通过数字方式和电话向人们提供，而这正在带来巨大的改变。你可以想象这样一个世界，在其中，实际上，你知道，AI 可以为人们提供这种社会益处。嗯，快速问一个关于 X 的问题，然后我们就应该向所有人开放提问了。你做了一项改变，当你在其中一个，嗯，其实做了很多改变，但相当多，一个，其中一个，其中一个改……你喜欢那个字母。是啊，我对它真的很着迷。你确实是，你确实是。其中一项改变，你知道，算是进入了这样一个领域，你知道，我们必须在其中运作，而这……

言论自由与内容审核之间的这种平衡，你知道，是我们作为政治人物一直在努力处理的，而你也在努力处理你自己版本的这个问题，并且你从某种人工的人类，是的，呃，审核方式，转向了社区注释。我认为那是一次很有意思的改变，对吧，这不是其他所有人都做过的。最好能谈谈，你知道，这背后的理由是什么，以及你为什么认为这是一种更好的做法。嗯，是的，部分问题在于，如果，如果你赋予人们审查者的权力，那么，好吧，他们就会带有一定程度的偏见。嗯，然后，无论是谁任命传感器，实际上都控制着信息。所以，社区注释背后的想法就是，好吧，我们要如何……

采用一种共识驱动的，呃，我是说，所以它其实并不是真正的审查，而是一种以共识驱动的方式来对待真相？我们要如何，或者我们要如何，我们要如何让事情，嗯，尽可能少地不真实？就像你可以说，人们也许无法抵达纯粹的真相，但可以努力做到更加真实。嗯，所以，社区注释的特点是，它实际上不会删除任何内容，只是添加背景信息。这个背景信息可能是：这件事不真实，理由如下。嗯，嗯，但是，但是重要的是，对于社区注释而言，嗯，实际上所有东西都是开源的，所以你可以看到 X 的软件，嗯，软件的每一行；你可以看到生成一个社区节点所使用的全部数据，而且你，你可以独立创建那个社区节点。所以，如果你已经，如果你看到……

对数据的操纵，你实际上可以把它指出来，并说，好吧，这，这，这里似乎存在一些钻系统空子的行为。嗯，而且你可以提出改进建议。嗯，所以它是，它是，它是最大程度的透明，我认为，这与某种群体智慧和透明度结合起来，从而得到一个更好的奥尼斯。而且，而且社区注释真正的关键要素之一是，要想让它显示出来，历史上意见不一致的人必须达成一致。嗯，而且，而且这里确实使用了一点 AI，所以我们会围绕社区注释的每位贡献者填充一个参数空间，然后是一个参数空间，所以，所以每个人基本上都有这些，这些与自己相关联的向量，所以它，它并不像右派或左派那么简单，而是在说，它是，它更……

它有几百个向量，那，那是因为事情比右派，右派或左派要复杂得多。然后，嗯，而且，而且接下来我们会，我们会做某种，呃，逆相关，比如说，好吧，这些，这些人通常意见不一致，但他们对这条注释意见一致，好吧，那么这，那么这，这，这就赋予了这条注释可信度，好吧。嗯，是的，这就是它的核心，而且运作得相当不错，是的。嗯，我还没有看到过一条实际上持续存在超过几个小时、呃、却不正确的注释。所以命中率极高。而当我问，你们有人说，哦，他们担心社区注释本身会成为虚假信息，比如，给我发一个，然后他们发不出来。所以，所以我认为它，我认为它相当不错。我的意思是，总体的愿景是……

通过 X 平台向公众提供信息和娱乐，嗯，并做到尽可能准确、尽可能真实。嗯，即使有人不喜欢真相，你知道，人们并不总是喜欢真相。嗯，不，并不总是。嗯，但，但这就是愿景，而我认为，如果，如果我们，如果我们忠于真相，那么我认为我们会发现，人们会，呃，使用这个系统了解正在发生什么，并且去了解它。我，我其实认为真相是有回报的。嗯，所以我认为这会是……我的意思是，假设你不想进行自我欺骗，那么，嗯，那么我认为这，这是明智之举，你知道。所以，很好，非常有帮助。好了，让我们，呃，向在座的所有嘉宾开放提问。我们准备了一些麦克风，他们会过来。请举手，他们会过来，过来找你。

我们有……好的，请讲。谢谢，晚上好。呃，我是 Entrepreneur First 的爱丽丝·本廷。呃，感谢这场精彩的对话。我想分别向你们两位提一个问题。嗯，首相，英国拥有一些世界上最好的大学，我们也有人才；要让英国成为真正孕育、孕育独角兽公司的温床，还需要什么？嗯，还有埃隆，呃，在英国成为一名创始人，对于最杰出的技术人才来说，仍然不是一个显而易见的职业选择。我们需要建立哪些文化要素来改变这一点？谢谢两位。约翰，你想先回答吗？请讲。嗯，当然。你说得对，确实存在一些，嗯，文化要素；你，你，你知道，文化应该赞颂创建新公司。嗯，而且，嗯，还应该……

倾向于支持，嗯，小型，小型公司，因为它们才是需要培育的公司，大公司实际上并不需要培育。嗯，所以，你知道，你可以把它想象成，某种程度上就像一座花园：如果它是一株小嫩芽，就需要，需要培育；如果它是一棵参天橡树，就不需要那么多。嗯，所以我认为，呃，那，那，那是一种很重要的思维方式转变。嗯，但是，但是我，我应该提到，嗯，呃，伦敦是，呃，你知道，伦敦和旧金山，或者说湾区，实际上是 AI 的两个“感知”。所以，所以伦敦在这方面其实做得，做得非常好。这两个最……我会说是地球上两个领先的地点，而且，你知道，旧金山可能领先于伦敦，但伦敦真的非常强，或者说伦敦地区，嗯，大伦敦……

周边各郡，我想。继续说，继续说。嗯，所以我只是在说，客观而言，情况就是这样。嗯，嗯，但是你确实需要那些，呃，你需要，你需要基础设施；你需要，你需要，嗯，愿意向新公司，呃，出租房产的房东；你，你需要，呃，愿意支持新公司的律师事务所和会计师。而总体来说，这是一种思……这是一种思维方式的转变。嗯，我认为其中一些变化正在发生，但我认为真正重要的是，在文化层面，人们需要认定这，这是一件好事。是的，是的。不，实际上，嗯，感谢你对英国的评价。这是我们一直努力做的事情，在场许多人都是使这里成为 intive 公司绝佳之地的一分子，包括，呃，Alice。所以，Alice，我想说的是，你知道……

我的工作是把所有这些，你知道，具体环节做好，确保你们所有正在创办公司的人都能筹集到所需资本，包括从，你知道，凭借我们不可思议的，呃，EIS 税收减免获得的种子资金，一直到，你知道，你们的后期融资轮。我们需要改革养老金基金，而财政大臣已经提出了一系列令人难以置信的改革，以释放所有拥有资本的人手中的资本，并将其投入成长型股权，对吧。这项工作仍在进行中，我们还没有做到，但我认为我们，我们正在取得，我们正在取得良好进展。我们需要人才，我们需要人，你说得对。所以这意味着教育体系要优先重视真正重要的东西，而你们已经看到了我的改革。我一直在说更多数学、更多数学、更多数学。

嗯，但我认为这很重要；不过，也要把最优秀、最聪明的人吸引到这里。如果你看看我们这个国家增长最快的公司，而且我认为美国的情况可能也一样，其中超过一半都有非英国籍创始人，对吧。所以这告诉你，我们必须成为一个向全世界最优秀、最聪明的创业人才开放的地方。因此，我们推出的签证制度，我认为做到了这一点，让这些人能轻松来到这里。然后，实际上，就是我们在本场会议开始时讨论的事情：监管，对吧。要确保我们拥有一个支持创新的监管体系。是的，我们当然总是需要为那些，呃，会令我们担忧的事情设置护栏，但我们必须创造一个……

给人们创新和做不同事情的空间，你知道，那些都是我的工作。更困难的是埃隆谈到的事情，也就是文化，对吧？如何把硅谷等地的那种文化移植到世界各地，让人们敢于放弃定期领薪水的保障，去创办某种事业，并能坦然面对失败。你经常谈到这一点，我想你更多是在谈玩游戏时说到的，对吧，但你必须能坦然面对失败，并且知道那只是过程的一部分。这是一个，这是一个很难在一夜之间完成的文化层面的事情，但我认为，它是创造那种环境的重要组成部分。是的，如果你的第1家初创公司没有成功

这不应该是某种灾难性的、彻底终结职业生涯的事情，而应该是，你知道吗，很好，我觉得应该像是，好吧，你知道，你好好尝试过了，你知道，然后然后然后现在再试一次，没错。所以我本来要提到的一件事是，显然，创建一家公司在某种程度上是一种高风险高回报的，呃，处境，嗯，但是，我不太清楚这在英国是怎么运作的，我觉得这里可能比，嗯，欧洲大陆更好，嗯，但是在欧洲大多数地区，股票期权都非常困难。我不确定英国的情况如何，但是但是，如果某人基本上要拿他们的，某种毕生积蓄去冒险，而且绝大多数初创企业都会失败，所以，我的意思是，你听说的是那些成功的初创企业，但大多数公司

都是，大多数初创企业包含，你知道，海量的的的工作，嗯，随后以失败告终。事实上，大多数、大多数公司都是如此。所以这是高风险高回报，而且而且而且，因此，更高回报的部分确实需要存在，这才说得通。是的，我觉得这是在非常委婉地为税收政策递话，我 CH，但实际上我可以告诉你，那么听着，我，我同意，而且我们有，所以我们有，我认为，相对于欧洲国家肯定如此，但相对于美国，尤其是加利福尼亚，我们的资本利得税率要低得多。好的，对吧，所以对于那些冒险并发展某些事物的人，我们认为回报最终应该在那里，所以资本利得税率是 20%，嗯，至于股票期权，我不知道房间里有没有 Index Ventures 的人，所以你

知道，Index 是我们这里该死的风险投资基金之一，他们会定期发布报告，考察大多数国家对股票期权的税务处理。是的，而且你知道，当我担任财政大臣，也就是你知道的相当于财政部长时，我们当时，我觉得排在，呃，我们相当不错，但排在第 4 或第 5，我说，正是出于你提到的原因，我们需要，这里必须成为创新者最理想的地方，我们需要把排名提上去。而且我觉得在那份报告的最新一版中，由于，嗯，Jeremy 和我所做的改变，凭记忆，我觉得我们已经上升到第 2。所以希望这应该能让你和其他所有人感到一些宽慰，知道我们认识到这很重要，因为当人们努力工作并拿一些东西冒险时，是的，他们

应该能够享受那种高风险高回报所带来的回报。是的，而且我认为我们有一个，我们确实有一个支持这一点的税收制度，而这些就是，你知道，我所信奉的价值观，我想这个房间里的大多数人可能也同样信奉。好了，下一个，呃，下一个问题，我面前有 7 个，然后我会到这边来。说吧，说吧。S，非常感谢。嗯，我们谈到了一些非常宏大的构想，嗯，改变全球的构想。我真的很感兴趣，特别是在创建科学和技术超级枢纽等等的背景下，这会如何映射到，呃，生活在比如得克萨斯州奥斯汀的人们的日常生活中，选 r，或者就我而言，是诺丁汉、东米德兰兹，呃，什么，什么是，你怎么看待这对人们的演变，你知道，每一天，

AI 的某种日常影响？是的，嗯，Elon，交代一下背景，Seb，Seb 经营的是我们这里相当于 CVS，对吧，或者 Walgreens 的企业，所以，你知道，就像我去过的那样，对吧，所以每天都有人走进他的商店，而问题是确保我们如何让这变得切合实际。我想，所以你的问题是，这与那个人有什么关系，你知道，也许实际上让我来，我先回答这个，因为我，我觉得这是一个合理的、合理的观点。我刚刚和团队过了几件我们正在做的事情，因为我当时在想，比如我们现在是怎么应用 AI 的，它正在给人们的生活带来改变，而我们有一个叫作 gov.

uk，这个，这实际上在我们——在几年前发生时，是一项开创性的举措，所有政府信息都汇集到一个网站上，gov.

uk，所以你需要获得驾驶执照、护照，任何与政府的互动，它都以一种非常容易、相对容易使用的方式集中起来，呃，比大多数都好，比大多数都好。是的，所以我们，我们即将，所以我们即将在整个平台上部署 AI。因此，我觉得这是，你知道，每天有数百万人使用的东西，对吧，所以人口中的很大一部分正在与 gov.

uk 互动，每一天都用它完成所有这些日常事务，对吧，你的每一位顾客都在做所有那些事情。所以我们即将把 AI 部署进去，让整个过程变得容易得多，因为，你知道，有些人会说，听着，我现在人在这里，我丢了护照，而我的航班 5 小时后起飞，你知道，目前这会需要，你知道，多少个步骤才能弄明白该怎么做。你知道，实际上当我们部署 AI 时，应该可以让你真的只需直接说出这些，然后砰砰砰砰砰，这就是我们要做的，它会引导你完成，而那将每天惠及数百万、数百万人，对吧，因为以我所处的位置来看，这是一种非常实际的方式，让我可以开始利用这项技术帮助

人们的日常生活，不只是医疗保健领域的发现以及我们也在做的其他一切，但我觉得这是一个相当有力的展示，说明你的日常顾客确实会看到，他们的日常生活因为某种，你知道，Elon deis 以及这个房间里的其他人帮助创造的东西而变得稍微容易了一点。是的，没错，最直接的事情就是能够提问，嗯，就像拥有一个非常聪明的朋友，你可以向它询问任何事情，嗯，你知道，问怎样制作某个东西，怎样解决任何问题，它都会告诉你。嗯，所以，而且显然公司会采用这个，因此我认为你会获得好得多的客户服务，我想本质上那可能会是你注意到的第一件事，嗯，而且，嗯，而且

然后我们谈到了教育，是的，嗯，所以拥有一位导师，所以如果你正试图理解一门学科，就像在任何学科上都有一位非凡的导师一样，那，那真的差不多已经实现了，几乎。我是说，我们显然需要，AI 需要停止产生幻觉，之后，你知道，它不能给你，我是说，我们，我们仍然有一点问题，它可能会给你一个自信满满但错误的答案，嗯，配上非常出色的语法，呃，以及，你知道，要点列表，还有所有内容中的引用，而那些并不真实。所以它必须，好吧，我们需要确保它不会、不会、不会给你自信满满但错误的 2 个可怕答案，嗯，但是，但是我们，那会很快、相当快地实现，届时它实际上是正确的。嗯，所以是的，我正要说，对于任何、任何一位

在 coid 期间进行居家教育，并意识到他们的孩子需要在哪些方面得到帮助，那会带来极大的宽慰，我觉得。非常、非常好。好了，我们有没有，我们来提问，呃，这边，我们有谁，我们有任何麦克风吗，还是 Brent，你在那里吗？非常好。嗨，Bren hobman。嗯，所以，你知道，你很有说服力地谈到了富足和富足时代，所以，显然，有了 AI，感觉是一切、处处、处处、同时发生，但对于，嗯，对于机器人，而且要，要进入富足时代，我们将需要大量机器人。我知道你也在努力研究机器人，是否存在某种我们应该考虑、我们的政治家也应该考虑的制约因素，即某个国家可能会在，在 Rob，在能够做所有这些

事情并进入富足时代的机器人方面严重落后，并因此处于战略劣势？嗯，实际上，任何能够由计算机驱动的东西实际上都是机器人，嗯，所以坦率地说，你可以认为 Tesla 的原因是轮子上的机器人，嗯，任何连接到互联网的东西实际上都是人工智能的一个端点执行器，嗯，所以，嗯，显然你们有 Boston Dynamics，他们制造令人印象深刻的机器人已经有一段时间了，嗯，我想他们目前大部分归 Hyundai 所有。所以我，我猜当我的时候，很可能会制造，嗯，属于那种是人形的机器人，以及以及以及一些相当有趣的形状，我没能辨别，比如那个看起来像一个、有轮子而且有点像车轮上的袋鼠的东西。我不确定那是什么，但是，嗯，嗯，看起来有点

凹陷，坦率地说，但是，嗯，但是将会出现各种各样、各种各样的机器人，嗯，英国有 Dyson 公司，我觉得它做出了一些相当令人印象深刻的东西，嗯，我，我，我觉得英国在这方面实际上不会落后，嗯，英国还有 Arm，它是，嗯，真的最好的，最好的之一，也许是全世界，呃，芯片设计领域最好的公司，嗯，Tesla 使用大量、大量 Arm 技术，实际上几乎所有人都用。所以我认为英国处于一个有利地位，嗯，德国显然制造很多机器人、工业机器人，呃，那，我是说，我觉得总体上，制造，嗯，任何种类机器人的国家，即使它们看起来有些传统，也会，也会没问题。嗯，我确实认为存在一个，存在一个，一个安全隐患，尤其是对于人形

机器人，因为，嗯，至少汽车没法追着你进入这栋楼，没那么容易，你知道，或者把你从树上追下来，或者，你知道，嗯，你可以算是跑上一段楼梯，摆脱一辆 Tesla，嗯，嗯，我想有一部关于这个的斯蒂芬·金电影，嗯，如果你的车被附身了，嗯，所以，但是如果你有一个人形机器人，它可以，它基本上可以追你到任何地方，所以我，我认为我们应该有某种，嗯，硬接线的本地断开装置，嗯，它，它不能通过互联网更新，所以任何可以通过互联网进行软件更新的东西显然都可以被覆盖，嗯，但如果你有某种本地关闭开关，嗯，在那里你说 p、pa、SA 一个关键词或别的什么，然后那会让机器人进入安全状态，嗯，某种本地化的安全状态能力，嗯，一个

关闭开关，你知道，在那里你不必离机器人太近，我不知道，所以如果有数百万个这样的东西到处活动，你不是在卖它，只是，你知道，就像，不，我，我知道，嗯，我是说这是我们应该相当担忧的事情，嗯，因为如果机器人能，机器人能跟着你去任何地方，那么，你知道，要是有一天它们突然得到一次软件更新，不再那么友好了，嗯，那我们就上演一部詹姆斯·卡梅隆电影了，我，嗯，实际上，你这么说很有意思，因为在我们今天举行的会议中，我，你知道，只想说我们是谁，他们提出了完全相同的观点，对吧，德，所以我们谈到，他们实际上在谈电影，却没有提到詹姆斯·卡梅隆，他们谈到

詹姆斯·卡梅拉的电影，他们说，如果你想想，不只是那些电影，而是任何这些电影，火车、地铁、轨道交通、汽车、公交车，他们说，所有这些有着相同情节的电影，从根本上说，结尾都是有人把它关掉，对吧，或者找到办法关闭那东西。他们提出了和你一样的观点，就是实体关闭开关的重要性，是的。所以所有技术都很棒，但从根本上说，这同一部电影已经上演了50次，我们都看过，而从根本上，你知道，你知道我指的是哪一点，对吧，它们的结局几乎都一样，都是有人找到办法，就这么，是的，做那件事。嗯，这有点有意思，你也提出了类似的观点，对吧，它可能不是那个

它不是你显然会想到的地方，但也许这可以成为对AI的测试之一，我们就说，比如，填空：你最喜欢的詹姆斯·卡梅隆电影是空白。是的，太好了，对。嗯，是的，那边有人，是的，很好。嗨，有个问题想问你们两位。嗯，我是一家AI和机器学习规模化企业的创始人，位于第三个人工智能中心，也就是英格兰北部的利兹，我有点偏心。嗯，自从Chat GPT推出3个月后，我们看到钓鱼攻击确实有所增加，使用了复杂得多的语言模式。嗯，我们要怎么做，才能保护企业、消费者，让他们更信任这项技术，又该如何让他们与我们一起踏上这段旅程？嗯，我认为我们其实不应该那么信任它。嗯，这实际上是一个相当、相当重大的

挑战，因为我们正在走到这样一个节点：即使是开源AI也能通过，呃，人类捕捉测试。所以，你知道，这个“你是人类吗，请找出这张图片里的所有交通信号灯”，你会说，好吧，是的，它做这个不会有任何问题。事实上，它会比人类做得更好，也比人类更快。所以我们会想，你怎么，你知道，当它比人类更像一个更好的人、更擅长通过人类测试时，那么，究竟什么测试才有意义？这是一个真正的问题。我其实没有很好的解决方案。嗯，这是我们正在X平台上试图弄清楚如何应对的问题之一，因为确实，我们确实已经到了这个节点，嗯，即使使用，使用呃，开源的，你知道，随手可得的AI，你也不需要

成为某种领域领先者，嗯，你实际上就能比人类更擅长通过这些测试。嗯，这也算是为什么我们在想，或许我们应该每年收取，收取1美元或1英镑。这是一笔非常小的钱，但它仍然，它仍然会让制造100万个零件贵到难以承受。嗯，所以，嗯，特别是如果你需要100万种支付方式，那么你，你很快就会耗尽某种，被盗的信用卡。嗯，呃，所以那，那，那算是我们在考虑的方向，比如，我们可能不得不收取某种极少量的钱，嗯，实际上每天3美分，以，嗯，应对AI驱动的债券的猛烈冲击。嗯，而且如果，如果，而那，那仍是一个日益严重的问题，但我认为或许会

明年成为一个无法克服的问题。所以，而且，而且，而且接下来你就必须担心，嗯，对，嗯，信息的操纵，让某件事看起来非常受欢迎，而事实上它并非如此，因为它得到了所有这些来自，嗯，AI驱动机器人的点赞和，和，和转发的推高。所以这就是为什么我有点认为，它多少不可避免地会导致收取一小笔费用，以便，呃，大幅提高一个债券的成本。嗯，所以我认为，我坦率地认为，我认为大概任何不这么做的社交媒体系统都会直接被B淹没，你知道，我认为我，我的一般回答会是，你知道，我们需要证明我们在掌控风险缓解，对吧，这样人们才能信任这项技术。这其实就是过去几天在安全方面所做的事

峰会只是为了表明，你知道，我们正在投资安全研究所，配备能够研究这些事情的人，以弄清楚我们如何减轻它们的影响，而且我们必须迅速行动，还必须不断迭代，因为我认为，这个房间里的我们所有人大概都相信，这项技术可能极其强大，但我们必须确保让人们与我们一起踏上这段旅程，确保我们正在处理现有的风险。我说过，这里有工作要做，而过去几天里，我认为我们在这方面取得了良好进展，因为我们希望聚焦积极面，并管理好这些事情，但这需要行动，而，而这就是过去几天一直在做的事情。而你的，你的，嗯，那个故事、那个类比，是研究的一部分

实际上，你知道，这里负责该工作组的团队昨天发布并展示了这项研究。我不知道你有没有看到，那是，呃，也就是用AI去，去在社交媒体上创建大量虚假资料，然后用特定信息渗透特定群体。而实际上，目前正如你所说的，这就像是零成本，它，它，它正在，它正在走到这样的地步，简直就像，你真的可以1便士买100个之类的，荒谬至极。而如果你想想其中一些社交网络，在相当于一个社区或城镇的层面，你并不需要那么多虚假资料，就能迅速创建出来，突然之间它们无处不在，而当地又出现了某个可能很重要的问题，然后，你知道

团队已经运行了多个版本，展示那会是什么样子，然后突然之间，它们开始和所有人互动，接着散播一条错误信息，正如你的观点，这确实是我们昨天发布的错误信息研究的一部分。这是，呃，这是一个真正的挑战。是的，完全如你所说。我的意思是，你，这些图像，它，它，你甚至不需要盗用某个人的照片，因为那是可追查的，但你实际上可以直接说，创建一个新的，一个人的新图像，看起来真实但并不存在。嗯，然后，然后创建一份生平，看起来真实但并不存在，并大规模这样做，而实际上我们唯一能够辨别我们的方式，是语法好得过了头，确实会暴露出来。是的，没有打字错误。行了，现在我被示意了，因为我想我们

没时间了。我不知道，我们再接受最后一个非常简短的问题，让我们来一个。好的，先生，就你，你就在我正前方，来吧。谢谢给我这个机会。埃隆，有个问题想问你。嗯，与X平台有关，我们有没有一些简单的事情可以做，尤其是在视觉媒体方面？你提到了这样一个事实：让像你这样的人看似说过和做过自己从未说过或做过的事，是相当直接的，而且实际上是免费的。是的。嗯，我们能不能做类似对媒体进行加密签名的事情？我来自Adobe，我们正在做这个项目。是的，Twitter曾是成员，很希望看到X回来。好的。嗯，对媒体进行数字签名，以标明，呃，不仅标明什么是由AI创作的，也标明什么来自摄像机，什么是真实的。是的。为可能病毒式传播的媒体注入一种信任感

这听起来其实是个好主意。所以如果，嗯，有某种验证方式会，会很好。嗯，所以，是的，我，我，那听起来是个好主意。我们，我们或许应该这么做。说到这里，其实关于这一点，关于这一点，所以我已经，我已经，所以这对于从事我这份工作的人尤其切身相关，对吧，而且我已经遇到过一种情况，一张篡改过的图片与我有关，到处传播，产生负面影响。等到所有人意识到，好吧，那是假的，我们应该停止传播时，伤害已经，伤害已经造成了。嗯，而且其实我们今天又在思考，如果你想想明年，你知道，我想，你知道，美国、印度，我想还有印度尼西亚，都要举行选举。嗯，可能这里也有。你看，重大新闻。嗯，而且实际上，全球有极其庞大的一块

人口将在明年投票，对吧，而且还有欧盟选举，而你知道，实际上这些问题就在我们眼前。你知道，明年是全球各地举行重大选举的一年，可能是第一批让这个问题成为现实问题的选举。是的。嗯，所以，弄清楚我们如何管理它，我认为对于那些希望，你知道，维护我们民主完整性的人来说，有点事关任务成败。是的，我的意思是，其中有些还挺有意思，比如穿羽绒服的教皇，你看过那张吗？我没看过。那太惊人了。但我的意思是，我仍然会碰到一些人，他们，他们，他们以为那是真的。嗯，我会说，好吧，他在7月的罗马穿羽绒服的概率有多大？呃，你知道，会热得冒汗。但实际上看起来相当、相当潇洒，我得说。嗯，事实上，我

认为AI时尚将真正成为一种事物。所以，所以我悲观阴沉，就像，我们生活在最有趣的时代，我认为这，嗯，它，你知道，大概有80%的可能性是好的，20%是坏的，而我认为，如果我们意识到坏的部分并且谨慎对待，那么总体而言，它实际上将成为我们想要的未来，嗯，或者，那个更可取的未来。嗯，而且，而且实际上，它在某种程度上将会拉平差距、促进平等，因为，你知道，我认为每个人都将能够获得商品、服务和教育，因此，你知道，我认为它很可能会带来更多人类幸福。所以我，我想我大概会以一个乐观的基调结束。很好。是的，我，那是一个，嗯，那是一个非常好的结束基调。我认为，你知道，我们都希望那个，那个更好的

未来，我们认为它就在那里，它的前景当然是存在的，这个房间里的许多人，包括你们自己，都在努力让它成为现实。我们政府的工作是确保它安全地实现。但基于过去几天的这番对话，我离开时当然更有信心，相信我们能够让它实现。所以，能请你来到这里是莫大的荣幸和喜悦，非常感谢你邀请[掌声]我。

okay all right well good evening everybody Welcome Elon thanks for being here thank you for having me we feel we feel very privileged we're excited to have you right so I'm going to start with some questions and then we're going to open it up let me get straight into it so Bill Gat said there is no one in our time who has done more to push the bounds of science Innovation than you well it's kind of to say well that's it that's a nice thing to have anyone say about you nice coming from Bill Gates but oddly enough when it comes to AI actually for around a decade you've almost been doing the opposite and saying hang on we need to think about what we're doing and what we're pushing here and what do we do to make this safe and and actually maybe we shouldn't

be pushing as fast or as hard as we are like I mean you've been doing it for a decade like what was it that caused you to think about it that way and you know why do we need to be worried yeah I've been somewhat of a Cassandra for quite a while um where where people would I tell you like we should really be concerned about AI they be like what are you talking about like they've never really had any experience with with AI but since I was immersed in um technology I have been immersed in technology for a long time I could see it coming um so uh but I think this year was there've been a number of of breakthroughs I mean you know the point in which someone can see a dynamically created video of themselves um you know like somebody could make a video of you

saying anything in real time um or me um and uh so the sort of the deep Pake videos which are really incredibly good in fact sometimes more convincing than real ones um and deep real um and um and then and then obviously things like CH GPT were were quite remarkable now I saw gpt1 gpt2 gpt3 gp4 that you know the whole sort of lead up to that so it was easy for me to um kind of see where it's going if you just sort of extrapolate the points on a curve and assume that Trend will continue then we will have um profound artificial intelligence and obviously at a level that far exceeds human intelligence um so um but I'm I'm glad to see at this point that uh people are taking uh safety seriously and i' I'd uh like to say thank you for holding this AI safety

conference I think actually it will regard on in history as being very important I think it's it's really quite profound um and um and and I do think overall that the potential is there for a artificial intelligence AI to um have most likely a positive effect um and to create a future of abundance where there is no scarcity of goods and services um but but it is somewhat the of the the magic Genie problem where if you have a magic Genie that can grant all the wishes um usually those stories um don't end well be careful what you wish for including wishes yeah yeah so you you you talked a little bit about about the the summit and thank you for being engaged in it which has been great and people enjoyed having you there participating in this dialogue now

one of the things that we achieved today in the meetings between the companies and the leaders was an agreement that externally ideally governments should be doing safety testing of models before they're released I think this is something that you've spoken about a little bit it was something we worked really hard on because you know my job in government is to say hang on there is a potential risk here not a not a definite risk but a potential risk of something that could be bad you know my job is to protect the country yes that's and we can only do that if we develop the capability we need in our safety Institute and then go in and make sure we can test the models before they are release delighted that that happened today but you know what what's your

view on what we should be doing right you've talked about the potential risk right again we don't know but you know what are the types of things governments like our should be doing to manage and mitigate against those risks well I generally think that that it is good for government to play a role when the public safety is is at risk so um you know really for the vast majority of software um the public safety is not at risk I mean if if the if the uh app crashes on your phone or your laptop it's not a a massive catastrophe um but when you're talking about digital superintelligence I think which does pose a risk to the public then there is a role for government to play to safeguard the interest of the public and and this is of course true in many fields

um you know Aviation cars you know I and I deal with Regulators throughout the world uh because of um stalling being Communications Rockets being Aerospace and cars you know being TR vehicle transport so I'm very familiar with dealing with with Regulators um and I actually agree with the vast majority of regulations there's a few that I disagree with from time to time but Point one% probably of or less than 1% of regulations I disagree with so um and there is some concern from uh people in silic Valley who who' have never dealt with Regulators before and they think that this is going to just Crush Innovation and and slow them down and be annoying but and and uh it will be annoying it's true um they're not wrong about that um but but but I think there's

we've learned over the years that uh having a referee is a good thing and if you look at any sports game there's always a a referee and and nobody's suggesting I think to have a sports game without one um and and I think that's the the right way to think about this is for um for government to be a a referee to make sure the Sportsman like conduct and and and that the public safety is um you know is addressed that we care about the public safety because I think there might be at times too much optimism about technology and I speak I say that as a technologist I mean so I ought to know um and and uh and and like I said on on balance I think that the AI will be a forceable good most likely but the probability of it going bad is not 0% yeah so we we just

need to mitigate the downside potential and then how you talked about referee and that's what we're trying right there yeah well there we go I mean you know and we talked about this and Demus and I discussed this a long time ago like literally facing right at and actually you know Demus to his credit and the credit of people in industry did say that to us I you know de was say it's not right that Demus and his colleagues are marking their own homework right there needs to be someone independent and that's why we've developed the safety Institute here I mean do you think governments can develop the expertise one of the things we need to do is say hang on you know Demis Sam all the others have got a lot of very smart people doing this governments need to

quickly tool up capability wise Personnel wise which is what we're doing I mean do you think it is possible for governments to do that fast enough given how quickly the technology is developing or what do we need to do to make sure we do do it quick enough no I think it's it's a good it's a great Point you're making um the the pace of of AI is faster than any technology I've seen in history by far um and it's it seems to be growing in capability by at at least fivefold perhaps 10 fold per year it it'll certainly grow by an order of magnitude next year yeah so um so and and government isn't used to moving at that speed um but I but I think even if there are not um firm regulations um even if there's not even if there isn't an enforcement capability Simply

Having insight and being able to highlight concerns to the public will be very powerful um so even if that's all that's accomplished I think that will be very very good okay yeah well hopefully we can do better than that hopefully yeah no but that that's helpful actually we were talking before it was striking you you someone who spent their life in technology living More's law and what was interesting over the last couple of days talking to everyone who's doing the development of this and I think youd concur with this is is just the pace of advancement here is unlike anything all of you have seen in your careers and technology is that fair because you've got these kind of compounding effects from the hardware and and the data and the Personnel yeah um

I mean the two um currently the two leading centers for AI development are C Isco Bay Area and the and the sort of London area that um and there are many other places where it's being done but those are the two leading areas so I think if um you know if if the United States and the UK um and and China are um sort of aligned on on safety that's all going to be a good thing because that's really that's where that's that's where the the leadership is generally I me you actually you mentioned China that so I I took a decision to invite China to to Summit over the last couple days and it was not an easy decision a lot of people criticize me for it you know my view is if you're going to tryal serious conversation you need to but I what would your thoughts you

do business all around the world you just talked about it there yeah you know should we be engaging with them can we trust them is that the right thing to have done if if we don't if China is not on board with uh AI safety it it's somewhat of a mood situation U the single biggest objection that I get to any kind of AI regulation or or sort of safety controls um are well China's not going to do it and therefore they will just jump into the lead and exceed us whole um but but actually China is willing to participate in uh in AI safety um and thank you for inviting them and I and they you know I I think we should thank China for for attending um when I was when I was in China earlier this year the my main subject of discussion with this the leadership in

China was AI safety and saying that this this is really something that they they should care about and um they took seriously and and and um and you are too which is which is great um and having them here I think was essential really if they if they're if they're not participants it's it's uh pointless it's pointless yeah no that and I think we were pleased I they were engaged yesterday in the discussions and actually ended up signing the same communic that everyone else did that's great which is a good stop right and I said if we need everyone to approach us in a similar way if we're going to have I think a realistic chance of of resolving it I was going to you talked about Innovation earlier and and regul being annoying there was a good debate today

we had about open source and I think you you've kind of been a proponent of algorithmic transparency and making some of the the X algorithms public and you actually we were talking about Jeffrey Hinton on the way in yeah you know he he's particularly been very concerned about open- Source models being used by Bad actors you've got a group of people who say they are critical to Innovation happening in that distributed way look it's it's a trick there's probably no perfect answer and there's a tricky balance what are your thoughts on how we should approach this open- Source question or you know where should we be targeting whatever regulatory or monitoring that we're going to do well the open source um algorithms and data tend to lag the close Source by

6 to 12 months um but so so there but given the rate of improvement that there's actually therefore quite a big difference between the the closed source and the and the open um if things are improving by factor of let's say five or more um than being a year behind is you're five times worse so it's a pretty big difference and that might be actually an okay situation um but it it certainly will'll get to the point where you've got open source um AI that can do that that will start to approach human level intelligence will perhap succeed it um I don't know quite what to do about it I think it's somewhat inev inevitable there will be some amount of Open Source and I I I guess I would have a slight bias towards open source uh because at least you can see

what's going on whereas closed Source you don't know what's going on now it should be said with AI that even if it's open source do you actually know what's going on because if you've got a gigantic data file and um you know sort of billions of of of data points weights and parameters uh you can't just read it and see what it's going to do it's a gigantic file of inscrutable numbers um you can test it when you when you run it you can test it you can run a bunch of tests to see what it's going to do but it it's probabilistic as opposed to um deterministic it's not it's not like traditional programming where you've got a you've got very discret logic and and and the outcome is very predictable and you can read each line and see what each Line's going to

do um uh a neural net is just a whole bunch of probabilities um I mean it sort of ends up being a giant comma separated value file it's like our digital guide is a CSP file really okay um but that that is kind of what it is yeah now that that point you've just made is one that we have been talking about a lot because again conversation with the people who developing their technology make the point that you've just made it it is not like normal software where there's predictability about inputs improving leading to this particular output improving and as the models iterate and prove we don't quite know what's going to come out the other end I think Demis would agree with that which is why I think there is this uh bias for look we need to get in there while

the training runs are being done before the models are released to understand what is this new iteration brought about in terms of capability which it it sounds like you would U would agree with I I was going to shift gears a little bit on you know you've talked a lot about human consciousness human agency which actually might strike people as as strange given that you are known for being such a brilliant innovator in technology ologist but it's it's quite heartfelt when I hear you talk about it and the importance of maintaining that agency in technology and preserving human consciousness now it kind of links to the thing I was going to ask is when I do interviews or talk to people out and about in this job about AI the thing that comes up most actually

is is probably not so much of the stuff we've been talking about but jobs it's what does AI mean for my job is it going to mean that I don't have a job or my kids are not going to have a job now you know my my answer as a you as a policy maker as a leader is you know actually AI is already creating jobs and you can see that in the companies that are starting also the way it's being used is a little bit more as a co-pilot necessarily versus replacing the person there's still human agency but it's helping you do your job better which is a good thing and and as we've seen with technological Revolutions in the past clearly there's change in the labor market the amount of jobs I was quoting an MIT study today that they did a couple of years ago something like

60% of the jobs at that moment didn't exist 40 years ago so hard to predict and my job is to create an incredible education system whether it's at school whether it's retraining people at any point in their career because ultimately if we've got a skilled population they'll be able to keep up with the the pace of change and have a good life but you know that it's still a concern and you know you what would your kind of observation be on on AI and the impact on labor markets and people's jobs and how they should feel about that as they they think about this well I think we are seeing the most disruptive force in history here um you know where we have for the first time we will have the first time something that is smarter than the smartest human um and

that I mean it's hard to say exactly what that moment is but but there will come a point where no job is needed you can have a job if you want to have a job for sort of personal satisfaction but the AI will be able to do everything so I don't know if that makes people comfortable uncomfortable it's [Laughter] it's you know that's why that's why I say if if you if you wish for a magic Genie that gives you any wishes you want and there's no limit you don't have those three limit three wish limit nonsense you just have as many as many wishes as you want um so uh it's both good and bad um one of the challenges in the future will be how do we find meaning in life if if you have a gen that can do everything you want I I I do think we we it's it's it's hard

you know when when when this new technology it tends to have usually follow an S curve in this case we're going to be on the exponential portion of the S curve for a long time um and you like you'll be able to ask for anything it won't be we won't have Universal basic income we'll have Universal High income so in some in some sense it'll be somewhat of a leveler um or an equalizer you know because really I think everyone will have access to this magic Genie um and you able to ask any question it'll be certainly be good for Education you it'll be the best tutor you could I'm the most patient tutor uh sit there all day um and uh there will be no shortage of goods and services will be an age of abundance um I think if I'd recommend people read uh in Banks

the banks culture books are probably the best envisioning if fact not probably they're definitely by far the best envisioning of an AI future um there's nothing even close so I'd recommend really recommend fanks I'm very big fan um all his books are good um does not say which one all of them um so so that's that that'll give you a sense of what is a I guess a fairly utopian or protop um future with with AI yeah um which is good from a as you said it's a universal High income which is a nice phrase and that's it's good from a kind of materialistic sense a of abundance actually that it kind of then leads to the question that you pose right I'm someone who believes you know work gives you meaning right I think a lot about that as as you know I think work

is a good thing it you know gives people purpose in their lives and if you then remove a large chunk of that you know what does that mean and where do you get that you know where do you get that drive that motivation that purpose I mean you were talking about it you you work a lot of hours I do no as I was mentioning when we we were talking earlier I have to somewhat engage in deliberate suspension of disbelief um because I'm I'm putting so much Blood Sweat and Tears into a work project and burning the you know 3:00 a.

m.

oil um then um I'm like wait why am I doing this I can just wait for the AI to do it I'm just lashing myself for no reason yeah um must be a glut for punishment or something um so we called call Demus and tell him to hurry up up and then you can have a holiday right that's the plan yeah no it's a it's a tricky it's a tricky thing because I think you know part of our job is to make sure that we can navigate to that very I think largely positive place that you're describing and help people through it between now and then because these things bring a lot of about a change in in the labor market as we've seen yeah um I I think it probably is generally a good thing because you know there are a lot of jobs that are uncomfortable or dangerous or sort of tedious

um and the computer will have no problem doing that be happy to do that all day long so um you know it's fun to cook food but it's not that fun to wash dishes like but the computer's perfectly happy to wash dishes um I I guess there is um you know we still have uh sports like where where where humans compete and like the Olympics and obviously um a machine can can go faster than any human but we still have uh we still humans race against each other um and uh and have all you know have these Sports competitions against each other where even though the machines are better they're still I guess competing to see who can be the best human at something yeah um and and people do find fulfillment in that so I guess that's perhaps a a good example of how even

when machines are faster than are stronger than us we still find a way we still we still enjoy competing against other humans to at least to who the best human yeah that's that's a good that's a good analogy and we've been talking a lot about managing the risks I just before we move on and finish on AI is just talk a little bit about the opportunities you know you you're engaging lots of different companies neur being an obvious one which is doing which is doing some exciting stuff I you touched on the thing that I'm probably most excited about which is in education yeah and I think many people will have seen s Khan's video from earlier this year is Ted talk about as you talked about it's like personal tutor yeah personal tutor an amazing personal tutor

an amazing personal tutor and we know the difference in learning having that personalized tutor is incredible compared to class from learning if you can have every child have a personal tutor specifically for them that then just evolves with them over time that could be extraordinary so that you know for me I look at that I think gosh that is within reach at this point and and that's one of the benefits I'm most excited about like when you look at the the landscape of things that you see as possible what is it that you know you are particularly excited about I I think certainly ai ai tter are going to be amazing um perhaps already are uh I think there's also perhaps companionship which may seem odd because how can the computer really be your friend but

if you if you have an AI that has memory you know and remembers all of your interactions and has read every you can say like give it permission to read everything you've ever done so it really will know you better than anyone perhaps even yourself um and and and where you can talk to it every day and and those conversations spold upon each other you will actually have a great friend um as long as that friend can stay your friend and not get turned off or something don't turn off my friends um but I think that will actually be a real thing um and um I have a one of my sons is is sort of has some learning disabilities has trouble making friends actually and and I was like well you know he an AI friend would actually be great for him oh okay you know it's

that was a surprising answer that's actually it's worth uh worth reflecting on it's really interesting Ian we're already seeing it actually as we deliver you know Psychotherapy anyway now doing far more by digitally and by telephone to people and it's making a huge difference and you can see a world and which actually you know AI can provide that social benefit to people um just quick question on on X and then we should open it up to everybody you made a change when you in one of the well made many changes but quite a few one one of the one of the Chang you love that letter yeah i' got a real thing about it you you really do you really do one of the changes which you know kind of you know goes into the space that you know we have to operate in and this

this balance between free speech and moderation it's you know we grapple with as politicians you were grappling with your own version of that and and you you moved away from a kind of manual human yeah uh way of doing it the moderation to the the community notes and and I think that's it it was an interesting change right it's not what everyone else has done it would be good you know what's what was the reasoning behind that and why you think that is a better way to do that um yeah part of the problem is if if you if you Empower people as censors then well have there's going to be some amount of bias they have um and then whoever appoints the sensors is effectively in control of information so then the the idea behind Community notes is well how do we

have a consensus driven uh I mean so it's not really censoring it but consensus driven approach to truth how do we or how do we how do we make things um the least amount untrue like you can say like what one can't pass perhaps get to Pure truth but you can aspire to be more truthful um so the the the thing about Community notes is it doesn't actually delete anything it simply adds context now that context could be this thing is untrue for the following reasons um um and but but importantly with Community notes um everything is open source actually so you can see ex the software um every line of the software you can see all of the data that went into a community node and you and you can independently create that Community node so if you've got if you see

manipulation of the data you can actually highlight that and say well this this this there appears to be some gaming of the system um and you can suggest improvements um so it's it's it's maximum transparency which is I think combined with the kind of wisdom of the crowds and transparency to get to a better Onis and and really one of the key elements of community notes is that in order for to be shown people who have historically disagreed must agree um and and there is a bit of AI usage here so there's we populate a parameter space um around each contributor to community notes and then a parameter space so so everyone's got basically these these vectors associated with them which so it's it's not as simple as as right or left it's saying it's it's more

it's several hundred vectors that that because things are more complicated than something right right or left and um and and then we'll we'll do sort of a uh inverse correlation say like okay these these people generally disagree but they agree about this note okay so then that so then that that that gives the note credibility okay um yeah that's the that's the core of it and it's working quite well yeah um I've yet to see a note actually be be present for more than a few hours uh that that is incorrect so the batting average is extremely good and when I ask you people say oh they're worried about Community notes sort of being disinformation like send me one and then they can't so so I think it's I think it's quite good I mean the general aspiration is

with the xplatform is to inform and entertain the public um and to be as accurate as possible and as truthful as possible um even if someone doesn't like the truth you know people don't always like the truth um no not always um but but that's that's the aspiration and I think if if we are if we stay true to the truth then I think we'll find that people uh use use the system to learn what is going on and to to learn it I I think actually truth pays um so I think it'll be what what I mean assuming you don't want to engage in self- delusion then um then I think it's it's the smart move you know so excellent very helpful right let's uh open it up to all our guests here we've got some microphones they'll come put your hands up they'll come come and find you

we got yes go for it thank you good evening uh Alice bentin from entrepreneur first uh thank you for a fascinating conversation I suppose a question for each of you um prime minister the UK has some of the best universities in the world we have the talent what will it take for the UK to be a real breeding breeding ground for unicorn companies um and Elon uh being a Founder in the UK is still a non-obvious career choice for the most exceptional technical Talent what are the cultural elements that we need to put into place to change this thank you both John you want to go first go for it um sure well you're right that there are um cultural elements where you you you know the the culture should celebrate creating new companies um and um and there should

be a bias towards supporting um small small companies because they're the ones that need nurturing the larger companies really don't need nurturing ing um so you know just you can think of it's sort of like a garden if it's a little Sprout it needs needs nurturing if it's a Mighty Oak it doesn't need quite as much um so I think uh that that that is a mindset change that is important um but but I I should mention that um uh London is uh you know London and San Francisco or the Bay Area are really the two senses for AI so that so London is actually doing doing very well on that front that the two MO I say the two leading locations on Earth and you know San Francisco's probably ahead of London but London's really very strong or London area um greater London

home counties I guess keep going keep going um so I'm just saying objectively this is the case um um and but you do need that uh you need you need the infrastructure you need you need um landlords who are willing to uh rent to new companies you you need uh law firms and accountants that are willing to support new companies and it's generally a mind it is a mindset change um and I think some of that is happening but I think really it's just culturally people need to decide this is this is a good thing yeah yeah no actually well thanks for for what you said about the UK it's something that we work hard on lots of people in the room are are part of what makes this a fabulous place for intive companies including uh Alice so Alice what I'd say is you know

my job is to get all the you know the nuts and bolts right make sure that all of you are starting companies can raise the capital that you need everything from you know your seed funding with our incredible you know Eis tax reliefs all the way through to you know your late stage rounds and we need reform of our Pension funds and the Chancellor's got a bunch of incredible reforms to unlock capital from all the people who have it and deploy it into growth Equity right that is a work in progress we're not there yet but I think we're we're making we're making good progress we need talent we need people you right so that means an education system that prioritizes the things that matter and you've seen my reforms I go on about more maths more maths more maths

um but I think that is important but also attracting the best and the brightest here if you look at our fastest growing companies in in this country and I think it's probably the same in in the US over half of them have a non-british Founder right and so that tells you we've got to be a place that is open to the world's best and brightest entrepreneurial Talent so the Visa regime that we've put in place I think does that makes it easy for those people to come here and then actually it's the thing that we spent the beginning of the session talking about the regulation right making sure that we've got a regulatory system that's Pro Innovation that yeah we of course we always need guard rails on the things uh that will worry us but we've got to create a

space for people to innovate and do different things you know those are all my jobs the thing that is tougher is the thing that Elon talked about which is culture right it's how do you transpose that culture from places like Silicon Valley across the world where people are unafraid to give up the security of a regular paycheck to go and start something and be comfortable with failure you you talked about that a lot I think you talked about it more in when you were playing games right but that you've got to be comfortable failing and knowing that that's just part of the process and that is a it's a tricky cultural thing to do overnight but it's an important part of I think creating that kind of environment yeah if if you don't succeed with your first startup

it shouldn't be sort of a catastrophic career ending exactly thing it should be you know what good I think should like should be like well you know you gave it a good shot you know and and and now try again exactly and it's so one thing I was going to mention is like obviously creating a company is sort of a highrisk high reward uh situation um but and I don't know quite what the how it works in in the UK I think it's probably better than than um Continental Europe um but the the stock options are very difficult in most parts of Europe I'm not sure if how than the UK but but if somebody's basically going to risk their the sort of life savings and with and the vast majority of startups fail so I mean you hear about the startups that succeed but most companies

are most startups consist of you know a massive amount of of of work um followed by failure that's actually most most companies and so it's a highrisk high reward and and and so the higher reward part does need to be there for it to make sense yeah I think that was a very soft pitch for tax policy that I CH but I actually I can tell you so look I a I agree and we have so we have I think relative to certainly European countries but certainly the US definitely California a much lower rate of capital gains tax okay right so for those people who are risking and growing something like we think the reward should be there at the end so 20% capital gains tax rate um and on stock options I don't know if we've got anyone from index ventures in in the room so you

know index one of our bleeding VC funds here they they do a regular report looking at most countries tax treatment of stock options yeah and you know when I was Chancellor of you know treasury secretary equivalent you know we were I think down at uh we were pretty good but we were fourth or fifth and I said we need to for exactly the reason that you mentioned was like this has got to be the best place for innovators we need to move that up and I think in the last iteration of that report we had because of the changes that um Jeremy and I had made we have moved up to I think second from from memory so hopefully that should give you and everyone else some comfort that we recognize that's important because when people work hard and risk things yeah they

should be able to enjoy the rewards of that high risk High reward yeah and I think we have a we very much have a tax system that supports that and those are the values that you know I believe in and I think most of us in this room probably do as well right next uh next question I've got seven front of me and then I'll come over here go on go on S thanks very much um we've talked about some really big Ideas um Global changing ideas I'm really interested particularly in the context of creation of of science and technology superhubs and so on how does that map onto the everyday lives of uh of people living in say Austin Texas to choose r or in my case Nottingham East Midlands uh what what is how do you see that evolving for people you know every day the

sort of everyday effects of AI yeah um for context Elon so Seb Seb runs are are equivalent of CVS right or Walgreens so you know when as I visited right so he's got of people coming in his shops every day and it's making sure how do we make this relevant I think so is your question how how is this relevant to that person you know maybe actually let me go I'll go first on that because I I think it's a a fair a fair point I was just going over with the team a couple of things that we're doing because I was thinking like how are we doing AI right now that it's making a difference to people's lives and we have this thing called gov.

uk which is which actually when we when it happened several years ago was a pioneering thing all the government information brought together on one website gov.

uk and so you need to get a driving license passport any interaction with government it was centralized in a very easy relatively easy to use way uh better than most better than most yeah so we we are about so we're about to deploy AI across that platform so that is something that I think you know several million people a day use right so a large chunk of the population is interacting with gov.

uk every single day to do all these day-to-day tasks right every one of your customers is doing all those things and so we're about to deploy AI into that to make that whole process so much easier because you know some people will be like look well I'm currently here and I've lost my passport and my flight's in five hours you know at the moment that would require you know how many steps to figure out what you do you know we actually when we deploy the AI it should be that you could just literally say that and boom boom boom boom boom this is what we're going to do walk you through it and that's going to benefit millions and millions of people every single day right cuz that's a very practical way in my seat that I can start using this technology to help

people in their day-to-day lives not just Healthcare discoveries and everything else that we're also doing but I thought that's quite a powerful demonstration of literally your day-to-day customer seeing actually their just day-to-day life get a little bit easier because of something that you know Elon deis and others in this room have helped create yeah no exactly the the the most immediate thing is just being able to ask um like having a very smart friend that you can ask anything um you know ask how to make something how to solve any problem and it'll tell you um so and and obviously companies are going to adopt this so I think you'll have much better customer service I guess essentially that'll probably be the first thing you notice um and um and

then we talked about education yeah um so having a tutor so if you're trying to understand a subject like having a phenomenal tutor on any subject is that that's really pretty much there already almost I mean we need to obviously AI needs to stop hallucinating before you know it can't give you I mean we we still have a little bit of the problem where it can give you an answer that's confidently wrong um with great grammar uh and you know bullet points and everything in citations that was not real so it has to be okay we need to make sure it's it's not it's not it's not giving you confidently wrong two dire answers um but but we that's going to happen quick pretty quickly where it is actually correct um so yeah I going to say for any for any parent who

was homeschooling during coid and realizing what their kids needed to be helped with that will come as an enormous relief I think very very good right have we got let's go questions uh over here who have we got we any microphones or Brent are you there perfect hi Bren hobman um so you know you've spoken eloquently about abundance and the age of abundance so it it feels obviously with AI it's everything everywhere everywhere all at once but with um with robots and to to get the age of abundance we'll need a lot of robots I know you're working hard on robots as well are there sort of constraints that we should think of and our politicians should be thinking of that we might get one country might get heavily behind in in Rob in robots that can do all these

things and enter the age of abundance and therefore be at a strategic disadvantage well really anything that can be actuated by a computer is effectively a robot um so you can think of frankly Tesla cause are robots on Wheels um anything that's connected to the internet is effectively an endpoint actuator for artificial intelligence um so um you've got Boston Dynamics obviously they've been making impressive robots for a while um I think they're at this point mostly owned by Hyundai so I I guess when I's probably going to make um robots of that are humanoid and and and some rather interesting shapes that I wasn't disting like the one that looks like a has wheels and looks sort of like a kangaroo on Wheels I'm not sure what that is but um um looks a little

dented frankly but um but there's going to be all sorts of all sorts of robots um you've got the company Dyson in in the UK which I think does some pretty impressive things um I I I think the UK will not be behind actually on on that front um UK also has arm which is um really the the best one one of the best perhaps the best uh in in uh chip design in the world um Tesla uses a lot of a lot of arm technology almost everyone does actually so I think the UK is in in a strong position um Germany obviously makes a lot of robots industrial robots uh that I mean I think generally countries that make um robots of any kind even if they seem somewhat conventional will be will be fine um I do think there is a there is a a safety concern especially with humanoid

robots because um you at least the car can't chase you into this building not very easily you know or chase you off a tree or you know um you can sort of run up a flight of stairs and get away from a Tesla um um I think there a Stephen King movie about that um if your car gets possessed um so but if you have a humanoid robot it can it can basically chase you anywhere so I I think we should have some kind of um hardwired local cut off um that that you can't update from the internet so anything that can be software updated from the internet obviously can be overridden um but if you have a local sort of off switch um where you p pa SA a keyword or something and then that puts the robot into a safe State um some kind of localized safe State ability um an

off switch you know where you don't have to get too close to the robot I don't know so if you've got millions of these things going all over the place you're not selling it just you know like no I I know um I'm saying it's is something we should be quite concerned about um because if robot can robot can follow you anywhere then you know what if they just one day get a software update and they're not so friendly anymore um then we've got a James Cameron movie on I um it's it's actually that's it's funny you're saying that because we in our session that we had today I you know just would say who we they made exactly the same point right de so we're talking about they're talking about movies actually without mentioning James Cameron they're talking about

James camera movies and they're saying if you think about it's not just those movies but any of these movies trains Subways metros cars buses they said all these movies with the same plot fundamentally all end with the person turning it off right or finding a way to shut the thing down and they were making the same point that that you were about the importance of actual physical off switches yeah and so all the technology is great but fundamentally this same movie has played out 50 times we've all watched it and all fundamentally you know you know point I'm referring to right it all ends in pretty much the same way with someone finding a way to just yeah do thing um which is kind of interesting that you said a similar point right it's probably not the

it's not the obvious place you'd go to but maybe that could be one of the tests for the AI we we just say like blank is your favorite jamers Cameron movie fill in the blank yeah excellent right um yes we got over there yeah perfect hi a question for you both um so I'm a founder of a Ai and ml scaleup in the third Center for AI which is leads in the north of England I'm bit biased um since the launch of chat GPT three months after that we saw a real increase in fishing attacks using much more sophisticated language patterns um what do we do to protect businesses consumers so they trust this technology better and how do we bring them along that Journey with us well I think we shouldn't trust it that much actually um it is actually quite quite a significant

challenge because we're getting to the point where even open source AI can pass uh human capture tests so you know this s are you a human identify all the traffic lights in this picture you're like okay yeah is going to have a no problem doing that in fact it'll do it better than a human and faster than a human so we're like how do you you know at the point of which is better a better human better passing human test than humans then well what tests actually make sense that is a real problem I don't actually have a good solution to it um that one of the things we're trying to figure out on the xplatform is how to deal with that because it really we really are at the point where um even with with uh open source you know readily available AI you don't need

to be sort of leading the field um you can actually be better than humans at passing these tests um and that's sort of why we're thinking well perhaps we should sort of charge a a dollar or a pound a year it's a very tiny amount of money but it's it still it still makes it prohibitively expensive to make a million Parts um so um and especially if you need a million payment methods then you you run out of sort of for stolen credit cards pretty quickly um uh so that that's that's sort of where we're thinking like we might have to sort of just charge some very tiny amount of money um3 cents a day effectively to um deal with the the onslaught of AI powered bonds um and if if and that that is that is still a growing problem but will will be I think perhaps

an insurmountable problem next year so and and and then you have to worry about well manipulation of of um information is making something seem very popular when in fact it is not because it's getting boosted by all these likes and and and repost from um AI powered bots so that's why I sort of think somewhat inevitably it leads to some small payment in order to uh dramatically increase the the cost of a bond um so I think I think frankly I think probably any social media system that doesn't do that will simply be overrun by B you know I think my my general answer would be you know we we need to show that we are on top of mitigating the risk right so people can trust the technology that's what actually the last couple of days has been about on the safety

Summit is just showing you know we're investing in the safety Institute having the people who can do the research on these things to figure out how we mitigate against them and we have to do it fast and we have to keep iterating it because I think all of us probably in this room believe that the technology can be incredibly powerful but we've got to make sure we bring people along that Journey with us that we're handling the risks that are there and I said there's a job to do and the last couple of days I think we make good progress on it because we want to focus on the positives and manage these things but that requires action and and that's what the last couple of days has been about and your your um story your analogy there was part of the research

that actually you know the team working on the task force here published and presented yesterday I don't know if you saw it was uh which is a essentially that it was a using AI to do to create a ton of fake profiles on social media and then infiltrate particular groups with particular information and actually at the moment that is said to your point of it's like cost free it's it's it's getting it's getting to the point where it's like really you're going to have 100 for a penny sort of thing ridiculous and if you think about some of these social networks at quite a neighborhood or town level it's not that many fake profiles that you need to quickly create suddenly they're everywhere and there's some local issue that might be of importance and you know

the team have have run versions of how that would look like and suddenly they're interacting with everybody and then spreading a misinformation around ex your point that's we literally as part of the research that we published on misinformation yesterday it's uh it's a real challenge yeah exactly to your point I mean you the images it's it's you don't even need to steal some body's picture cuz that's traceable but you can actually just say create a new a new image of a person realistic looking but doesn't exist um and and then create a biography realistic but doesn't exist and do that on mass and practically the only way we be able to tell us that the gram is too good did give away yeah no tyos come on now I'm getting wave that because I think we are

out of time I don't we take one very brief last question and let's make a go one yes sir going your right in front of me go thank you for the opportunity Elon question for you um related to X platform are there simple things we can do especially when it comes to visual media you alluded to the fact that it's fairly straightforward and effectively free to make people like yourself say and do things that you never said or did yeah um can we do something like cryptographically signed media I'm from Adobe we're working on this project yeah Twitter was a member love to see X come back okay um digitally signed media to indicate uh not only what was created by AI but what came from a camera what was real yeah to imbue a sense of Trust in Media that can go viral

that sounds like a good idea actually so if um some some way of authenticating would be would be good um so yeah I I that sounds like a good idea we we should probably do it there you go actually on that on that point so I've I've already so this is particularly pertinent for people in my job right and I've already had a situation happen to me with a doctored image that goes everywhere negative by the time everyone realizes well that's fake and we should stop sending it the damage is damage is done um and actually we were again reflecting today if you think next year you've got elections in you know I think you know the US India I think Indonesia um probably here there you go massive news um and actually you've got just an enormous junk of the world's

population is voting next year right and you got EU elections as well and you know actually just these issues are right in front of us you know next year is where big elections across the globe probably the first set of Elections where this has been a real issue yeah um so figuring out how we manage that is I think kind of mission critical for people who want you know the Integrity of our democracy yeah I mean some of it is it's quite interesting like the Pope in the puffer jacket have you seen that one I haven't that's amazing but I mean I still run into people who who who think that's real um I'm like well what are the odds he's wearing a puffa jacket in July in Rome uh you know be sweating but it actually look quite quite dashing I say um in fact I

think AI fashion is going to be a real thing so so I Doom and Gloom like we live in the most interesting times and I think this is um it is you know like 80% likely to be good and 20% bad and I think we're if we're cognizant and and careful about the bad part on balance actually it will be the future that we want um or the the future that is preferable um and and it actually will be somewhat of a leveler an equalizer in the sense that you know I think everyone will have access to goods and services and education and so you know I think probably it leads to more human happiness so I I guess I'd probably leave on on an optimistic note perfect yeah I that's a well that's a that is a great note to end on I think that you know we all want that that better

future we think it's there the promise of it is certainly there lot people in this room including yourselves are working hard to make it happen our job in government is to make sure it happens safely but on the basis of this conversation in the last couple of days I'm certainly leaving more confident that we can make that happen so it's been a huge privilege and pleasure to have you here thank you very much for having [Applause] me