吉姆·克拉什：埃隆·马斯克估计达67亿美元的净资产，使他在最新一期《福布斯》美国400富豪榜（2013年9月）中排名第61位。但当你与他交谈时，会明显发现他对讨论金钱不太感兴趣。他主要的驱动力是自己所做的事情。“人们应该追求自己热爱的事物，”这位年仅43岁的亿万富翁说。“那会比几乎任何其他事情都更能让他们快乐。”马斯克相信重大变革：电动汽车（Tesla Motors）、太阳能（SolarCity）和可重复使用航天器（SpaceX）。“现在火箭的运作方式是一次性的，”他说。“你买下它们，然后把它们扔掉。想象一下，如果其他交通工具也是一次性的——飞机、汽车、自行车、马。一架747售价2.5亿美元，而一次往返需要2架。但没有人会花5亿美元去纽约吃午餐。”最近的一次交谈中，我们讨论了许多事情，其中大多与太空有关，但或许最有趣的是马斯克如何看待成功，以及成功对他意味着什么。

你的建议是投身于自己感兴趣的事。

你应该做自己充满热情、同时也对其他人有用的事情。说件令人尴尬的事，我喜欢电子游戏。那就是我小时候进入软件工程领域的原因。我想赚钱，好买一台更好的电脑，玩更好的电子游戏——与拯救世界毫无关系（笑）。显然，仅仅玩电子游戏其实并没有为任何人作出贡献。所以你应该做既能为社会作出贡献、自己也喜欢的事情。几乎在任何行业，如果你热衷于把工作做好，并让购买你产品的人尽可能开心，那都会非常有成就感。

你似乎已经通过自己的公司做到了这一点。

人们往往会聚焦于一个人，并认为不知怎么的，是这个人单枪匹马完成了这些事情。但必须强调——而且我不只是在口头上表示一下——我之所以能够做成这些事情，唯一的原因是那些愿意与我共事的优秀人才。公司是一个为创造产品或服务而组织起来的群体，而它能有多优秀，完全取决于其中的人有多优秀，以及他们对创造工作有多兴奋。我确实想肯定大量才华超群的人。我只是碰巧是这些公司的门面。

Tesla和SpaceX都理念宏大、反传统。是什么让你走上这条道路，你又为什么如此成功？

嗯，我自己也差一点没能成功[2008年做SpaceX时]。就我而言，我是个预见者，但我是因为不得不如此才成为预见者的。我真正认为自己在做的是工程。公司是通过与聪明人合作来放大伟大工程成果的一种方式。重要的技术问题就这样得到解决。如果你看看太空公司，它们的失败要么是因为采用了一种从技术上就不可能取得成功的解决方案，要么是因为无法吸引到足够多的人才，又或者只是资金耗尽了。终点线通常比你想象的远得多。

你如何应对恐惧？

公司的死亡——没能让公司成功——给我造成的压力远大于人身危险。但我以前也曾身处人身危险之中。有意思的是，我其实并没有那么紧张。在南非，我父亲有一架私人飞机，我们会在极其危险的天气中飞行，勉强才能回来。这听起来会有点疯狂，但我父亲还拥有赞比亚一座祖母绿矿的股份。当时我15岁，非常想和他一起去，但没有意识到那有多危险。我找不到自己的护照，所以最后拿了我弟弟的——结果发现已经过期6个月了！于是，我们这架飞机上装满了违禁品，还带着一本属于另一个人的过期护照。到处都是AK-47，我心想：“天啊，这真的可能会变得很糟。”

你自己有5个孩子。你设想他们将来会做什么？

我希望他们做能让自己快乐的事。我主要希望他们做对世界有用的事。我也想确保他们不会成为毫无贡献的“信托基金”子弟。我希望他们的贡献多于索取。

一旦开始载人而不只是运送货物，你们的Dragon太空舱会有很大不同吗？

如果你希望安全性和应急系统得到显著提升，就会有所不同。就目前而言，我们的货运Dragon在加压舱内维持海平面气压和正常室温。如果有人藏在我们的任何一次[4次货运]飞行中，他们都能顺利抵达国际空间站并返回，不会有任何问题。我们需要运输生物货物——鱼和老鼠——所以它必须能够维持生命。而且加压货舱很大——12立方米——空间绰绰有余。至于载人，我们很可能会在2016年年底前开始[载人飞行]。

你自己想去太空旅行吗？

这不是我做这件事的原因，但我的确想在某个时候去。

Jim Clash: Elon Musk’s estimated $6.7 billion net worth ranked him 61st on the most recent Forbes 400 list of wealthiest Americans (September 2013). But when you chat with him, it becomes clear he is not much interested in discussing money. His main driver is what he does. “People should pursue what they’re passionate about,” says the billionaire, just 43. “That will make them happier than pretty much anything else.” Musk is a believer in big change: electric cars (Tesla Motors), solar energy (SolarCity) and reusable spacecraft (SpaceX). “The way rockets work now is they’re expendable,” he says. “You buy them, then throw them away. Imagine if other means of transport were expendable – planes, cars, bicycles, horses. A 747 costs a quarter-billion dollars, and you would need two for a roundtrip. But nobody is paying a half-billion dollars to lunch in New York.” During a recent chat we discussed many things, mostly space-related, but perhaps most interesting is how Musk perceives success – and what it means to him.

Your advice is to embrace what interests you.

You want to do things you’re passionate about but also are useful to other people. To make an embarrassing admission, I like video games. That’s what got me into software engineering when I was a kid. I wanted to make money so I could buy a better computer to play better video games – nothing like saving the world [laughs]. Obviously just playing video games is not really contributing to anyone. So you want to do things that contribute to society that you also like. In almost any industry, if you’re passionate about doing a great job and making people that buy your product as happy as possible, it’s really fulfilling.

You seem to have done that with your companies.

There’s a tendency to focus on one person and think somehow that person singlehandedly does these things. But it’s important to emphasize – and I’m not just giving this lip service – that the only reason I was able to accomplish things is the great people willing to work with me. A company is a group organized to create a product or service, and it is only as good as its people and how excited they are about creating. I do want to recognize a ton of super-talented people. I just happen to be the face of the companies.

Both Tesla and SpaceX are big-idea, contrarian. What takes you down that path and why are you so successful?

Well, I came close to not succeeding myself [in 2008 with SpaceX]. In my case I’m a seer, but I’m a seer because I have to be. What I really see myself doing is the engineering. The companies are a way to amplify great engineering by working with smart people. Important technology problems get solved that way. If you look at space companies, they’ve failed either because they’ve had a technical solution where success was not a possible outcome, they were unable to attract a critical mass of talent or they just ran out of money. The finish line is usually a lot further away than you think.

How do you handle fear?

Company death – not succeeding with the company – causes me a lot more stress than physical danger. But I’ve been in physical danger before. The funny thing is I’ve not actually been that nervous. In South Africa, my father had a private plane we’d fly in incredibly dangerous weather and barely make it back. This is going to sound slightly crazy, but my father also had a share in an Emerald mine in Zambia. I was 15 and really wanted to go with him but didn’t realize how dangerous it was. I couldn’t find my passport so I ended up grabbing my brother’s – which turned out to be six months overdue! So we had this planeload of contraband and an overdue passport from another person. There were AK-47s all over the place and I’m thinking, “Man, this could really go bad.”

You have five kids yourself. What do you envision them doing?

I want them to do things that will make them happy. I mostly hope they do useful things for the world. I also want to make sure they’re not “trust-fund” kids that don’t add anything. I want them to add more than they take.

Will there be much of a difference in your Dragon space capsule once you start carrying humans versus just cargo?

There will be a difference if you want a dramatic improvement in safety and emergency systems. As it is, our cargo Dragon maintains sea level pressure and normal room temperature in the pressurized module. If somebody had stowed on any of our [four cargo] flights, they would have made it to ISS and back fine, no problem. We’re required to transport biological cargo – fish and mice – so it has to be able to support life. And the pressurized cargo area is big – 12 cubic meters – plenty of room. As for people, it’s quite likely by the end of 2016 we will start [flying them].

Do you want to travel in space yourself?

It’s not the reason I’m doing this, but I do want to go at some point.