欢迎来到 Electrified，我是主持人迪伦·卢米斯。我为你们带来了欧洲电池大会上埃隆的完整访谈。我只会插话1次，澄清他所说的某件事，但在明天的节目中，我们会稍微更详细地探讨这些内容。不过今天就请欣赏这次访谈，我很快再和你们聊。希望你们喜欢，而且，呃，很荣幸能与大家交谈。那么，就续航里程而言，我们，我认为已经证明续航里程可以非常长。事实上，我们可以让它比现在还要长，嗯，但我们续航更长的奇怪车辆拥有，嗯，超过600公里的续航里程，嗯，而且，呃，而且还有更多，我们可以，我们实际上可以做得更多，而你们实际上会看到我们车辆的一些，呃，改进版本

推出，呃，续航里程超过600公里，开始接近700公里，而且我们甚至还有一些正在长期开发、能够达到1,000公里的车型。所以，呃，我们看到的电池进步的真正根本障碍是成本。所以，嗯，如果你已经拥有，如果你已经拥有续航里程，如果你已经拥有快速充电，嗯，而且，嗯，那么所有这些都可以实现，再加上较长的日历寿命和较长的循环寿命，嗯，这样你的电池就能使用大约15年，我们相信我们目前的电池可以做到，那么最终最重要的就是，呃，改善成本，从而提高电池的可负担性，也就是需要电池的汽车和电动汽车的可负担性，嗯，从而让每个人都买得起电动汽车。那，那确实是我们

认为需要改进的根本事项。嗯，现在在这个过程中，还会有，呃，能量密度方面的改进，而这实际上会转化为续航里程的提升。所以在追求更低成本的，呃，电池时，你，你实际上最终会在很多情况下尝试提高能量密度，而这也会带来更长的续航里程。所以，嗯，长期目标将是设法达到，嗯，每千瓦时的一个等级，或许大约，嗯，呃，在长续航电芯的电芯层面达到50美分或45美分，嗯，而为了实现这一点，需要进行很多创新。所以他确实说的是电芯层面每千瓦时50至55美分。我不确定这是不是一个错误，但如果是，我不知道他原本想表达什么。所以告诉我你们对此有何看法。

关于那番话，无论是在电芯设计方面，还是在生产它们的，嗯，工厂设计方面。事实上，在建造那台制造机器的机器方面，要做的工作比在电芯本身上多得多。所以，需要以正确的方式设计电芯，嗯，然后，呃，非常，最困难的部分，而且这一点我再怎么强调都不为过，一个非常困难的部分，就是扩大生产规模，并使电芯达到极高的可靠性和安全性。所以我们告诉我们，多年来我们在这方面投入了大量精力，嗯，主要是在内部，但也进行过一些关键收购，它们对实现较低的每千瓦时成本发挥了重要作用，嗯，而这就是，呃，这就是我们打算在规划中的超级工厂建设的东西。

在柏林范登堡地区，只是想问您，呃，就扩大规模而言，您认为大规模生产面临的最大障碍是什么？我认为，嗯，有规模本身这一要素，嗯，在这一点上，我们是否……实现规模经济以使电池价格可负担是很重要的。因此，必须以极高的产量来做这些事情，这意味着需要一座非常大的工厂，而且不仅是规模大，还要让产品通过工厂的周期时间非常短。因此，快速的周期时间加上大型工厂，才能带来高产出。为了实现快速的周期时间，嗯，以及高精度，您需要为生产系统的每个环节开发先进机械。所以，这确实涵盖了一切，从电芯外壳如何制造，一直到如何

制造，呃，电极前驱体、阴极和阳极前驱体。因此，接着制造阳极和阴极材料，再把它们，呃，施加到那个、那个、那个导电导体上，嗯。为此，例如，我们有一种非常特殊的工艺，叫作干电极沉积，嗯，它对环境好得多。它基本上是一条将其放上去的生产线，以一种不需要溶剂，嗯，并且，或者、或者需要用诱饵来、来对它们的方式，将电极施加到导电带上。通常这些东西开始的方式是，你、你、你先用电材料制成浆料，然后，呃，把这种湿浆料放上去，其中含有大量溶剂，而那些溶剂会由烘箱，呃，烘烤掉。而、而这、这从环境

角度来看显然是自我优化的，因为你已经，嗯，所以你会有来自这种溶剂的气体，而后你必须把它处理掉，嗯。但采用干电极加工时，你不需要，呃，溶剂，也不需要干燥烘箱，嗯，而且可以直接施加，嗯。这、这听起来也许很简单，但实际上非常困难，嗯。事实上，我们为此使用的很多专用设备都来自，嗯，德国和欧洲其他地方，但它确实、它并不存在；它正在制造中；它、它实际上仍在设计中。而、而、而，你知道，我们、我们现在已经在一种，嗯，台架级别上做出了它，并且我们的目标是不久后在中试工厂级别实现它，嗯。然后，柏林勃兰登堡的意图是让它以、以规模化方式实现，嗯。规模化、规模化本

身就伴随着许多设计挑战，嗯，这些挑战已经……仅仅为了解决它，就要做大量研发。好吧，我撒谎了，要插话2次。我只是想让你知道，我认为未来2到3年，Tesla较大的风险或挑战之一将是规模化制造4680电芯。正如埃隆在这次采访中自始至终所说，仍然有很多工作要做。这并非板上钉钉，而且其中许多工艺仍在中试级别开发。因此，从台架到中试，再到大规模生产，是一件大事；正如他说的，这需要大量工作。所以，这是Tesla面临的较大风险之一，但不是2021年的风险，因为他们已经有了2021年的电池供应；不过对于2022年及以后，他们需要迅速扩大这些4680电芯的生产规模

所以在我看来，这是他们最大的挑战之一。如果可以的话，请大致和我们谈谈您对柏林勃兰登堡超级工厂内电芯工厂的规划。正如您所知，这里的人们对此非常兴奋。那么您还能告诉我们些什么？当然，嗯，所以，我们希望从目前在加利福尼亚的一座某种小型中试工厂——它基本上是概念验证——发展到，嗯，某种实际上将会是，我认为，可能是世界上最大的电芯工厂。我、我、我认为它会是最大的。它将能够实现每年超过100吉瓦时的产量，然后随着时间推移，可能达到每年200或吉瓦时。我相当确信，到那时，它会是世界上最大的电芯工厂

世界，嗯，而且，呃，正如我所说，有很多流程，我们必须相当彻底地缩短其循环时间，而且我们必须重新设计机械，以进行连续流操作。嗯，呃，我，我曾在许多许多场合公开说过，设计，呃，实际上任何先进技术的原型，嗯，我认为都相对容易，呃，然后扩大到大批量生产则非常困难。嗯，而且事实上有一句老话，大意是，1%靠灵感，99%靠汗水。它说，可能是99。

9 就电芯而言，你会看到很多关于这种电芯突破、那种电芯突破，嗯，这项技术突破的公告，然后会说，好吧，为什么他们不能直接大量制造呢？这是因为扩大生产工艺的规模，要比在实验室台架上做出某样东西困难得多。所以，很好，嗯。事实上，也许带大家简单、简单参观一下Tesla的中试工厂会有所帮助；如果你看到即使在非常小的中试工厂级别上它都有多么密集，你就能想象，在吞吐量或许高出100倍的情况下，它会密集到什么程度。谢谢。很密集，呃，是的。非常感谢您提供的灵感与汗水之比，呃。我会把这个带到我们未来的一些，呃，

会议讨论中。当我们谈到，呃，技术和突破时，让我问您这个问题，因为整个上午，我们都听到讨论政策问题的发言人说，他们认为可持续性对于欧洲在这一领域的比较优势绝对至关重要。所以，您提到了围绕溶剂和浆料等方面的一些可持续性考量。您能否再多谈一点您对电池生产环境影响的看法，以及Tesla正在采取哪些措施，让它，呃，朝着更可持续的方向发展？是的，当然可以，嗯。正如您曾……我认为干电极，呃，生产工艺本身就是相当具有颠覆性的改变；与使用溶剂，然后不得不把

溶剂烘干并处理，呃，溶剂释放出的、那些、那些气体相比，这是一项根本性的重大改进。这一点肯定很重要。还有，嗯，一些，嗯，生产阴极本身所采用的专有方法，我们借此避免了，嗯，许多在环境方面、在环保处理上很困难的步骤，嗯。我们正在做的事情之一是，我们正在，嗯，降低，例如，钴含量，嗯，这样就避免了像钴开采这样的问题。所以，它会是纯镍或接近纯镍的阳极，然后还会取消，比如说，临床电极加工中的一大堆步骤，这显然对环境有利，嗯。我们正在转向高硅，嗯，阳极，但它是一种硅阳极，其中的硅不需要大量的……它不是

以高能耗方式制造硅；它使用的硅可与太阳能，呃，某种太阳能电池板、某种伏打、光伏相媲美，嗯。我们还想出了一种无需使用硫酸来制造氢氧化锂的方法。所以，它实际上使用，呃，氯化钠，基本上就是食盐，从，嗯，锂黏土矿床中提取锂，嗯，而、而且这些食盐还可以被，呃，重复使用。所以，确实采用了一整套步骤，以确保，呃，电芯生产对环境的影响，嗯，是非常清洁的，嗯，而且你可以就住在电芯工厂旁边，甚至不会在、在空气中检测到任何含量的毒素。所以，如果你有，比如说，一台空气检测仪，你不会、你会

根本不会注意到任何东西，而且值得注意的是，呃，我们的试验工厂，作为，嗯，你知道，某种基本的概念验证，位于旧金山湾区，而那里以极其严格的环境要求闻名，所以如果有什么不好的东西，在旧金山湾区确实是不可能做的。对于那些喜爱超级工厂设施周围美丽森林的人来说，这会是非常好的消息。那么，呃，如果可以的话，再问几个简短的问题，呃，其中一个，呃，是关于一场旷日持久的讨论：我们究竟是否会看到电动，呃，卡车真正具有可行性，而你在发言开头谈到了续航里程，呃，那么你对那些说这不可能实现的悲观者有什么回应？嗯，我认为这其实只是

一个基础的，嗯，计算。比如说，电池，电芯的能量密度是多少，然后是电池包的能量密度，再然后是集成电池包和卡车，呃，底盘的能量密度，嗯。所以就是半挂卡车的总质量，在，你知道，在把拖车或其他任何东西算进去之前，而你能否把这个质量降到与现有，呃，柴油卡车相当的水平。我认为答案绝对是可以，而且我们已经通过原型卡车证明了这一点。所以，实现比方说，呃，500公里的续航里程，我认为相当容易，坦率地说，对半挂卡车而言简直轻而易举，嗯，而且这里假设的是一辆牵引着大约，呃，40乘以40公吨级载荷的卡车，嗯，所以，嗯，就是一辆重型卡车，呃，然后

如果你，如果你想用于长途货运，你可以把续航里程提高到，我们认为，呃，很容易达到800公里，而且我们看到了随着时间推移，让一辆重型卡车达到1000公里续航里程的路径。这就像我说的，是一辆总质量约为40公吨的卡车，呃，嗯，呃，而且，呃，我们认为它对，呃，货运公司来说将极具竞争力和吸引力，嗯，而且我们实际上有几辆正在运营的半挂原型卡车，已经运营超过1年了，嗯。所以，你知道，其中一些关键在于，正如我所说，拥有高，嗯，能量密度的电芯，然后以最少的额外、额外质量把该电芯集成到电池包中，接着采用，让它拥有结构电池包，其中电芯和电池包实际上

构成核心结构的一部分，这也是我们，嗯，在电池日谈到过的内容，当然，我们也会在半挂卡车上实施。最终结果是，呃，你基本上能够承载与普通柴油卡车相同的货物。像这样，我们认为可能存在，嗯，1吨的损失，也许吧，但目前我们认为，支柱式减少甚至可能低于1吨，不过，而且从长期来看，我认为有效载荷减少量可能为0，或者4辆电动卡车。所以，算是，你知道，要用具体数字来说明这一点，呃，你知道，大约，嗯，呃，电芯层面每公斤300，嗯，呃，300瓦时，类似这样的水平，呃，就足以达到我

谈到的这些高续航里程，也就是大约800公里的续航里程。非常有意思，谢谢。那么最后一个问题，涉及，呃，你曾经，呃，公开说过的一件事，即柏林超级工厂和上海超级工厂都会制造原创车型。你能就此简单谈几句，呃，给我们多一点细节吗？当然，嗯，是的，绝对会。所以，嗯，你知道，我认为欧洲当然有很多人才，嗯，有才华的设计师，呃，工程师，嗯，而且我认为，对很多最优秀的人来说，他们确实希望在一个能从事原创设计工作的地方工作，他们不想只是，你知道，做某个在加利福尼亚设计的产品的欧洲版本。所以我认为，为了吸引最优秀的人才，重要的是

嗯，去，去做原创设计，嗯，而且我认为，呃，你知道，也许，呃，在欧洲，做一款，嗯，我想是紧凑型汽车会很合理。所以也许是掀背车或类似车型，而且，嗯，类似于，好吧，大多数人想要什么，嗯，以及，呃，在某个特定地区，嗯，或者是一种非常受欢迎的做法，嗯，你知道，在美。

国，汽车往往更大，这是出于个人品味方面的原因，嗯，而在欧洲，汽车往往更小，嗯，而且，呃，我的意思是，如果你正试图，如果你正试图在密集的城市环境中停车，拥有一辆，嗯，确实合适、能够轻松放进停车位的汽车非常重要，嗯。我当时开着一辆Model X在柏林四处行驶，我们很难找到一个我们能够修好的停车位。所以，嗯，我认为，不过，你知道，那可能会是原创设计的一个不错候选，嗯，但我相信还会有其他车型，不过那，那也许会是明智的起点，嗯，而且这也帮助我们说，好吧，我们需要一辆人们负担得起的汽车，呃，它要符合他们的生活方式和一切，因此大概这样的车型是合理的，嗯，是的，我对

在欧洲做一些原创设计感到兴奋，这里的许多人也很兴奋，所以我们会怀着极大的好奇和兴趣，关注后续进展。埃隆·马斯克，非常感谢你加入我们。当我，当我计算加利福尼亚的时间，并且，呃，你知道，弄清楚你一定是几点起床的时候，我想，呃，你知道，他是真的成功让时间弯曲了，还是现在真的凌晨2点？所以我们非常感谢，呃，你与我们分享见解，现在我祝你晚安，并祝你未来取得巨大成功。呃，谢谢大家，很高兴和大家交谈。谢谢，谢谢，再见，再见。

welcome to electrified it's your host dylan loomis i have the full elon interview for you from the european battery conference i'm only going to chime in one time to clarify something that he said but in tomorrow's episode we'll get into things in a little bit more detail but for today just enjoy the interview and i'll talk to you guys soon hope you enjoy and uh it's an honor to talk to everyone so the as far as range is concerned we i think have shown that the range can be very long in fact we we could make it even longer than it is today um but our longer strange vehicles have um a range uh over 600 kilometers um and uh and there's there's more we could we could actually do more than that and you'll see actually some uh improved versions of our vehicles

come out with uh over 600 kilometers range starting to approach 700 kilometers and we even have some under development long term that can do a thousand kilometers so the uh what we see is really the fundamental uh impediment to progress with batteries is the cost so um if you've got if you've got range if you've got rapid recharge um and um and then all those can be achieved and a high calendar and high cycle life um so your batteries can last like 15 years which we believe ours currently can then the what it comes down to most of all is uh improving the cost so that the affordability of batteries is of of the battery required cars and electric vehicles um is improved and so that everyone can afford to buy an electric car that's that's really what we

see as the the fundamental thing that needs to be improved um now along the way there will also be uh improvements in energy density which really translates to improvements in range so in pursuit of lower cost uh batteries you you actually end up try a lot of cases with improved energy density which also gets more range so um the long-term goal would be to try to get to um a class per kilowatt hour of perhaps around um uh 50 cents or 45 cents at the cell level for a long range battery cell um and in order to get there there are a lot of innovations that are necessary so he did say 50 to 55 cents per kilowatt hour at the cell level i'm not sure if this was a mistake but if it was i don't know what he would have meant so let me know what you guys think

about that comment both in the cell design and in the design of the um the factory that produces them so in fact there's quite a bit more work in the in building the machine that builds the machine uh then in the the cell itself so it one needs to design the cell in the right way um and then uh very with the very difficult part and i can't emphasize this enough a very difficult part is then scaling up that production and achieving ex extremely high reliability and safety with the cells so we tell us we've put a lot of effort into this over many years um mostly internally but they've also been some key acquisitions that have been instrumental in achieving a low cost per kilowatt hour um and that's uh that's what we intend to build at the prospective gigafactory

in berlin vandenberg area just ask you uh in terms of scaling up uh what you see as the biggest hurdles to mass production i think um there is the very uh element of scale itself um in that do we it's important to achieve economies of scale to make the batteries affordable so things have to be done at extremely high volume so that means a very big factory and not just one that is big but also one where the um the cycle time through the factories is very low so your fast cycle time with a big factory is what yields a high output in order to achieve a fast cycle time um and uh and at high precision you need to develop advanced machinery for every aspect of the production system so this is really everything from how these the cell can is made up to the how

the uh the electrode precursors the cathode and the anode precursors are made so then making the anode and cathode materials to applying them uh to the the the conductive conductor um and for this we have for example the a very special process called the dry electrode deposition um which is much better for the environment it's basically a line going to put on that to apply the electrode to the conductive ribbon in a way that does not require solvent um and or or require bait to to them the normal way these things start you you you create a slurry of the electric materials and then uh you put the this wet slurry on and with a lot of solvent and that solvent is uh baked away by the ovens uh and and this this is this is obviously self-optimal from an environmental

standpoint because you've um so you have the gases coming from this from the solvent that you have to then get rid of um but with dry electrode processing you do not need the uh the solvent you don't need the drying ovens um and you can apply it directly um this this maybe sounds simple but it's really very difficult um and in fact a lot of the specialized equipment we use for this comes from um germany and elsewhere in europe but it does it doesn't exist it's being made it's it's really under design and and and you know we're we've made them made it now at kind of a um a benchtop level and we're aiming soon to have it done at a pilot plant level um and then the intent for berlin brandenburg would be to have it done at at scale um at scale at scale in

and of itself comes with a lot of design challenges um that have it's a lot of r d that's gonna be done just to solve okay i lied two chime ins i just want you to know i think one of the bigger risks or challenges for tesla for the next two to three years will be making the 4680 cells at scale as elon says throughout this interview there's still a lot of work to be done it's not a guarantee and a lot of these processes are still being developed at the pilot level so going from bench to pilot and then to mass scale production is a big deal and as he says it takes a ton of work so that is one of the bigger risks for tesla not for 2021 because they have their battery supply for 2021 but for 2022 and beyond they need to get these 4680 cells scaled quickly

so that is one of their biggest challenges imo talk to us a bit if you would uh in general about your plans for the battery cell plant within the gigafactory uh berlin brandenburg as you know people here very excited about this so what more can you tell us sure um so the the we want to go from where we have a sort of small pilot plant which is basically proof of concept uh in california to um uh something that that will actually be i think possibly the largest uh battery cell plant in the world i i i think it will be the largest um it would be capable of over a hundred gigawatt hours per year of production and then possibly over time going to to 200 or gigawatt hours a year pretty confident at that point it would be the largest battery cell plant in the

world um and uh as i said a lot of processes where we have to quite radically improve the the cycle time and where we have to redesign machinery for continuous flow operation um uh i i've said this publicly on many many occasions that the designing the uh the prototype of really of any advanced technology um is i think relatively easy uh and then scaling up to high volume production is is very hard um and in fact there's an old saying it's like it's one percent inspiration and 99 perspiration it says it might be 99.

9 in the case of about battery cells you'll see a lot of announcements of this cell breakthrough that cell breakthrough um this technology breakthrough and say okay well why can't they just make a lot of them it's because the the scaling up of the production process is much harder than bringing something out on a lab bench so great um in fact it might be helpful to provide everyone with just just a walk through of the tesla um pilot plant and if you see how intense it is even at the very small pilot plant level you can imagine how much more it would be at something that is perhaps a hundred times more throughput thanks it's intense uh yeah thank you so much for the inspiration perspiration uh ratio there i'll be taking that into some of our future uh

discussions here at the conference when we talk about uh technology and breakthroughs let me ask you this because we've been hearing all morning from the speakers on policy issues that they see sustainability as absolutely key to the european comparative advantage in this area so you mentioned some sustainability considerations around solvents and slurry and so on could you say a little bit more about your view on the environmental impact of battery production and what you're doing at tesla to take it uh toward a more sustainable direction yeah absolutely um as you had i think the the dry electrode uh production process is uh in and of itself quite a game changer is a fun fundamental improvement compared to using solvent and then having to dry off the

solvent and deal with uh the the the off gassing from the solvent that's for sure is a big one there are um some um proprietary methods by which the the cathode is produced in the in the first place where we avoid um a lot of the steps that are environment that are difficult to deal with environmentally um and one of the things we're doing is we are um reducing the for example the cobalt content um so that avoids like a cobalt mining issue so it would be a pure nickel or almost pure nickel anode and then eliminating like a bunch of the steps of processing of the clinical electrode which then obviously is good for the environment um we're moving to a high silicon um anode but it's a silicon anode that where the silicon does not require a lot of it's not

energy intense to create the silicon it's using silicon that is comparable to solar uh sort of solar panels sort of voltaics photovoltaics um we also come up with a means of creating lithium hydroxide uh without use of sulfuric acid so it actually uses uh sodium chloride essentially table salt to um extract the lithium from uh lithium clay deposits um and uh and then that table salt is able to be uh reused so there's there's really a whole series of steps that are employed to ensure that the uh environmental impact of the cell production is um is very clean um and that you could be living right next to the battery cell plant and you wouldn't even have detectable amounts of any toxins uh in in the air so if you had like an air tester you wouldn't you would

not notice anything literally and it's it's notable that uh our pilot plant as the um you know sort of basic proof of concept is located in the san francisco bay area which is renowned for extreme environmental requirements so if there was anything that was bad it's really not possible to do it in the san francisco bay area that will be very good news uh to those who enjoy the beautiful forest uh around the gigafactory uh facility so uh just a couple more short questions if i may uh one of them uh regards uh a long discussion about whether we will ever see electric uh trucks as being truly viable and you started out in your remarks talking about range uh so what's your response to the pessimists who say not gonna happen well i think this is really just

a fundamental um calculation of you say like what's the energy density of the uh of the battery of the cell and then of the battery pack and then of the integrated battery pack and truck uh chassis um so it's a total mass of the uh of the semi truck before you know before including the trailer or anything and and can you get that mass down to something which is comparable to existing uh diesel trucks i think the answer is absolutely yes and we've demonstrated that with prototype trucks and so getting a range of let's say uh 500 kilometers is i think quite easy i like trivial to be frank for a semi truck um and this is assuming a truck that's pulling a load of something on the order of uh 40 times 40 metric tons um so um just a heavy truck uh and then

you can take the range if you if you want for long range trucking uh up to we think uh easily 800 kilometers and we see a path over time to get to a thousand kilometer range uh with a heavy-duty track this is like i said truck uh on the order of 40 metric ton uh total mass um uh and uh we think this is going to be extremely competitive and compelling to uh the trucking companies um and we actually have a few prototype semi trucks that are in operation have been in operation for over a year um so you know some keys to that are having like i said a high um energy density cell and then integrating that cell into the pack with a minimum of extra of extra mass and then using as having a structural battery pack where the cells and the battery pack actually

form part of the core structure and this is also something that we um talked about at battery day and that we will be of course implementing with the semi truck and the net result is uh you're able to carry uh the basically the same cargo as a regular diesel truck like this we think maybe there's a um a one-ton penalty maybe but at this point we think possibly you can even have less than a one ton uh pillared reduction but and it could long term i think be zero payload reduction or four electric trucks so sort of a you know in terms of like put numbers on this that are specific uh you know something like um uh around a 300 um uh 300 watt hours per kilogram something like that uh at the cell level uh is enough to to get to these the high ranges that i

talked about sort of the 800 kilometer range very interesting thank you so one last question pertaining uh to something uh that you have uh said uh publicly that both gigafactory berlin and gigafactory shanghai will be making original vehicles can you just say a few words uh about that give us a little more detail sure um yes absolutely so um you know i think there's there's just a lot of talent um talented designers uh engineers um in europe of course and uh it would i think for a lot of the best people they really want to work somewhere where they're doing original design work they don't want to just be you know doing say the european version of something that was designed in california so i think it's important for in order to attract the best talent

um to to do original design um and i think uh you know possibly uh in europe it would make sense to do um i guess a compact car so perhaps a hatchback or something like that and um something that like well what do most people want um and uh in a given region um or was a very popular approach to take um you know in the u.

s the cars tend to be bigger for personal taste reasons um and in europe the tends to be smaller um and uh i mean if you're trying if you're trying to to park in a dense urban environment having a car that is um that actually fits puts in a parking space easily is important um i was driving a model x around berlin and we had quite a bit of trouble finding a parking space that we could fix so um i think but you know that would probably be a good candidate for original design um but i'm sure there'll be others as well but that that might be the wise place to start um and it helps us also say okay we need a car that people can afford uh that fits their lifestyle and everything and so probably something like that would make sense um yeah i'm excited about

doing some original design in europe and many people here excited as well so we will be following with great curiosity and interest uh the further developments elon musk thank you so much for joining us when i when i calculated the time in california and uh you know figured out what hour you must have gotten up at i thought uh you know has he actually succeeded in bending time or is it really two in the morning so we really appreciate uh your sharing your insights with us and now i wish you a very good night and much success in future uh thank you guys good to talk to everyone thank you thanks bye bye