[音乐] 我们是邦德，今天上映，这是我最喜欢的电影，所以我觉得我必须做点那样的事。不管怎样，你怎么样？很好，你呢？很好。埃隆今天心情怎么样？这个这个心情可能是任何样子。我在这里感觉很好。是的，是的。好吧，我们有很多事情要谈，对吧？你想从哪里开始？呃，任何你想谈的地方。好吧，中国。嗯，加密货币，他们正在做的事。呃，顺便说一下，那是我的安全词。好吧。嗯，他们正在做的事，货币。是的，加密货币。是的，这会杀死任何内部人士，稍后留给我们，继续。嗯，加密货币在中国。是的，他们围绕比特币等所做的事，我还想转到美国将在监管方面做什么。呃，嗯，这这这似乎表明他们不喜欢加密货币。看起来，似乎是这样。

是的，是的，很含蓄，不过，呃，[笑声] 是的，你在暗示那个方向。嗯，是的，所以，嗯，我不能确切说明他们为什么那么不喜欢它，但人们可以出于各种原因进行推测。嗯，顺便说一下，中国有，正在面临一些重大的，呃，发电问题。是的。所以实际上，我认为其中一部分可能确实是由于，呃，中国许多地区的电力短缺。因此，中国南部南部很多地方目前正随机，嗯，停电，呃，因为电力需求高于预期。嗯，所以加密货币挖矿可能在其中发挥了作用，我不确定。嗯，这比那更进一步。是的，不是这样吗？嗯，我想，呃，加密货币的根本目标是，嗯，削弱中央集权政府的权力。是的，确实如此。而他们……

他们不喜欢那样。好吧，那是我的猜测。好吧，所以你觉得会发生什么？我的意思是，也许观众有几年，它涨了，他们宣布这件事之后并不重要，它跌了，然后又涨了。你对加密货币份额的影响可以超过中国。这是件好事吗？嗯，[音乐] 如果它上涨，我想是件好事。嗯，但，呃，我的意思是，我认为加密货币总会有一个长期角色。嗯，而且，嗯，你知道，人们其实应该把任何一种，呃，货币系统，无论是历史价值还是货币，都看作本质上是一种信息。嗯，如果你把信息论应用于货币，无论是加密货币还是其他形式，并从以下角度看待它，你知道，它在，嗯，你知道，类似带宽、延迟，呃，抖动，呃，丢包方面有多好。

呃，也就是说，你会说，欺诈就像网络上丢包之类的事。嗯，以及，嗯，你知道，它的整体安全性。呃，那么我认为，从这个这个角度来看，其中许多事情似乎就是就是非常合理。就像任何形式的货币本身都没有力量，除非它被用来在人们之间交换，呃，商品或服务的价值，或者把，呃，事物在时间中转移，比如单独。所以政府这样做，控制它，是正确的吗？有可能吗？我认为不可能摧毁加密货币，但政府有可能减缓它的发展。那么美国政府应该做什么？我们早些时候请到了加里·根斯勒，SEC主席，他称其为金融业的狂野西部。他们应该怎么做，如果需要做什么的话？我……

会说什么都别做。好吧，他们不是这么说的。是的，我的意思是，我不会，认真地说，就让它自行发展，因为，嗯，你觉得政府能做什么？我认为他们可以像你说的那样毁掉它。我不认为他们只能减缓它。我认为他们能阻止它。我认为他们无法控制它，因此他们可能想阻止它。是的，我的意思是，我我，我不会说自己是某种，你知道，重量级的加密货币专家。嗯，你知道，我认为加密货币有一定价值。我不认为它像救世主的第二次降临，我们也这么认为。嗯，你知道，它，呃，希望它能减少货币系统、传统货币系统中的，呃，错误和延迟，并减少，是的，我的意思是，就是，你知道，呃，政府有一种习惯，就是……

嗯，编辑货币数据库。嗯，那可能就像弗吉尼亚州某处的一台古老大型主机，运行着COBOL，如果我，这么想有点凄凉。嗯，但，呃，所以，你知道，当政府无法把手从饼干罐里拿出来，并编辑货币数据库时，那可能有一定价值。好吧，所以你是什么，你说你不是专家，但你现在花很多时间发推文谈它。你会发很多事情，我们一会儿会谈到。嗯，但为什么，为什么这是真的，为什么你会对加密货币感兴趣？因为你已经成为，我不会说是加密货币救世主，但是，是的，那将会是。哦，不。嗯，我的意思是，我大多数推文并不谈加密货币。这只是少数、一小部分推文。好吧，所以，嗯，我确实非常了解货币……

系统和支付，以及它实际如何运作，而不是，比如说，经济学家认为它如何运作。嗯，从实际层面来看，货币，货币基本上就是，货币体系是一系列异构数据库，呃，它们不是实时的，PayPal和少数其他系统除外。嗯，而且参与，并以批处理方式进行对账，呃，你知道，那可能需要24小时到数天不等。嗯，而且，嗯，所以就是很慢。总体上就是有大量延迟，而且，呃，ACH系统基本上毫无安全性。嗯，所以，而这一直就是，在PayPal于99年创立时就是这样，而，呃，22年后依然如此。它需要改革。是的，是的，没错。嗯，所以我想接着谈，嗯，当中国，我想在中国这个话题上再停留一下，你……

在那里运营，在那里销售。你怎么看他们对那里的科技创业者或科技移动设备所做的事？嗯，唔，马云在哪里？中国在哪里？我们有一些办法查出来，我猜，我，嗯，也许吧。嗯，我不知道。我觉得中国有有有一些，呃，投入的变化。嗯，我认为其中一部分实际上可能与覆盖有关，意思是，嗯，在中国进行面对面会议一直相当困难，而中国整个体系确实是以面对面会议为基础来运作的。过去18个月缺少这些会议，我认为，[音乐] 可能导致事情变得比有更多面对面会议时更糟。所以我认为，随着隐蔽状态解除，以及面对面会议……

恢复，我认为，呃，我认为那种信任水平可能会提高，而且我认为事情可能会开始朝着更积极的方向发展。科技业与政府之间的信任水平？是的，包括中国内部，以及，呃，对于来自U……的人。

和其他国家的人前往中国访问，并与中国政府官员会面这方面。现在只是，中国的运作很大程度上是围绕面对面会议设置的，所以我认为“Kobut”阻碍了这一点。嗯，所以我认为，我认为随着面对面会议恢复，事情很可能会改善。所以他们采取这些反垄断行动，是因为他们不能打招呼？我认为不能把所有这些都归因于那一点，但，呃，其中一部分可以。嗯，是的。嗯，好吧，我们拭目以待。我我我我预计明年情况会改善，只因为会有更好、更多的互动。你对自己在那里做的事感到紧张吗？那对你来说是一个大市场，你在那里运营。是的。嗯，我们在上海有一座大型工厂，运营得非常好，在Tesla，试图告诉那个……

Tesla中国团队正在，呃，做出很棒的工作，而我们我们在中国园区的销售也做得很好，同时也为中国生产汽车，并出口到欧洲。嗯，所以总体而言，坦率地说，情况相当不错。你不担心U……

中关系吗？不，不是，现在不是特别担心，特别。好吧，那么我们来谈谈太空。你知道，你最近进行了一次，嗯，太空，你会把一群平民送上太空。你没有把自己送上去。呃，没有，我没有把自己送上去。嗯，我想我会在某个时候去，但我的目标不是把自己送上去。我的目标是为人类开放太空，并最终让我们走上一条成为突破太空的文明和多行星物种的道路。是的，所以你自己不想上去？英雄就在那里附近。我会在某个时候去。你怎么看其他进入亚轨道的尝试？民用墙，亚郊区是迈向轨道的一步，但是，但是客观地说，你需要大约100倍的能量才能进入……

轨道，而不是亚轨道。嗯，然后要从病态状态返回，你需要消耗掉那些能量，所以你需要一块类似重型的防热盾，因为你会像流星一样进入。是的。所以，所以，轨道大致比地铁更难，差距是朝向量级，但在太空做点什么仍然，你知道，是件好事。你怎么看，看到，呃，理查德·布兰森和杰夫·贝索斯都在做这件事？嗯，我觉得他们，嗯，把钱花在推动太空发展上很酷。我认为我们最终希望成为，人类希望成为，应该希望成为一个承载太空的文明，置身群星之间，而我们想要，我认为我们真的想要，你知道，我的意思是，我们在科幻电影和书籍中看到的所有这些事物，比如，你知道，我们希望它们……

有一天成为现实，而不总是虚构，对吧？所以我认为人们花自己的钱推进太空技术是件好事。我们上次谈话时，没有谈太多太空。我们谈了一大堆事情。我们谈到肉瓣，那是埃隆对说话的称呼。是的，或者拍动手臂。是的，缓慢的音调喘息。没错，我现在听起来就像那样。对计算机来说，我们听起来就是那样，像放慢的鲸鱼声音。是的。所以我们可以谈太空。那么稍微谈谈，你觉得你正在做的事情取得了哪些进展，因为我认为在所有这些尝试中，你可能是快进得最远的。是的，所以关于SpaceX，嗯，让我想想。嗯，我的意思是，除了，呃，俯瞰太空飞行，以及，呃，提供运输……

服务，为NASA运送宇航员和货物往返空间站，我们现在已经做了一段时间，超过10年，我们还有一个叫星链的东西，它是一个全球互联网系统。嗯，我认为这会给世界带来一些深远的积极影响，因为这个星链实际上是为了服务那些获得服务最少的，嗯，你们现在已经发射了1300颗卫星，对吗？50，1500颗，而你想部署30 000颗。嗯，是的，我们一会儿会谈太空污染，但先解释一下这样做的原因。是的，所以，为了向大量人口提供高带宽、低延迟的连接，你需要很多卫星，而且它们需要位于近地轨道，这样延迟才低。位于地球静止轨道的卫星存在的问题……

是它们位于，你知道，大约36 000公里处，呃，而我们位于550公里处，所以延迟存在巨大差异。[音乐] 使用“starling”系统，你可以玩类似竞技类电子游戏，嗯，那种依赖延迟的游戏，并且仍然能够通过“starling”玩。嗯，它本质上就像浏览地面系统一样。嗯，但是要说明白，星链确实不是对5G、地面光纤或任何这类东西的威胁。它，嗯，但它非常适合地球上的中低人口密度地区，也就是那些铺设光纤或设置蜂窝，你知道，5G蜂窝基站成本太高的地方。所以它确实很好，它算是照顾到那些就是没有获得互联网的人，或者网速太太慢，或者太贵……

或者他们根本就没有互联网。天基系统非常适合服务那些获得服务最少的，比如5%之类的人群。从你的角度看，它在你的太空业务中占多大部分？我的意思是，我认为它相当重要，因为发射这一侧的业务，仅仅只是发射其他人的卫星以及为空间站提供服务，呃，年收入可能最高达到，你知道，30亿或40亿美元。而如果我们能达到，比如全球互联网流量的3%，那么那是，而那大致是一个每年1万亿美元的产业，那么我们就能把收入提高一个数量级，达到更接近300亿美元之类的水平。嗯，然后然后我们可以利用其中的收益开发……

将人类送往火星、月球以及太阳系其他地方所必需的火箭技术。所以那就是，那样的话，你知道，所以所以我认为“sonic”本身就是好的，呃，因为正如我所说，它能为世界上获得服务最少的人提供，呃，互联网接入，而从这一点来说，它从根本上是一件好事。嗯，而且还能在城市中提供一点竞争，尽管，你知道，“stanley”实际上也许只能服务一座城市中不到5%的人。这只是因为来自太空的的的点波束非常大。所以，嗯，不管怎样，它是一句很好的赞美，也是[音乐] 5G和，呃，光纤所必需的补充。嗯，所以，呃，而且喜欢它会为我们提供收入流，用来开发我们的下一代……

火箭，也就是星舰。嗯，我们正试图通过星舰实现一个根本性突破，也就是火箭技术的圣杯，呃，那就是拥有一枚完全可重复使用的椭圆形火箭。嗯，这这极其根本。嗯，猎鹰9号是大部分可重复使用的火箭。她最近批准了它着陆，对吗？呃，我们现在着陆已经有很长一段时间了，但是，嗯，所以事实上，我们的许多助推器都处于它们的第10次，呃，反射。因此我们已经证明，重复使用助推级是可以做到的，而且这样做在经济上，呃，是合理的。我们的猎鹰9号与竞争对手之间的价格差异，嗯，使用可重复使用火箭。哦，是的，当然。嗯，所以，呃，这真的非常巨大。嗯，呃，没有，使用猎鹰9号，我们仍然必须，呃，损失上面级，而你可以……

把每一级想成相当于一架喷气式飞机。所以助推年龄就像大型喷气式飞机，上面级是小型喷气式飞机，而我们每次仍然会扔掉那架小型发电机飞机。所以，[音乐] 猎鹰9号能够成为世界上最具竞争力的火箭，因为我们回收了蓝色级和整流罩。但是，但是即便如此，在不计，呃，间接费用分摊的情况下，我们每次发射的最佳边际成本仍约为1500万美元。是的，把15吨送入轨道，这相当大。像SpaceX，嗯，在过去1年左右，已经将，我认为大约占所有送入地球轨道有效载荷的三分之二送入轨道，而剩余三分之一中的大部分来自中国，然后其他所有人算是归入杂项。嗯，所以，[音乐]

嗯，所以无论如何，但是我们仍然有一个，它仍然是1500万美元，因为最，因为你们现在的成本与目标成本之间差多少？是的，所以，嗯，基本上，由于重复使用助推年龄，猎鹰9号的实际成本大约是其他选择的二分之一到三分之一。使用，呃，星舰，我们应该能够达到这样一点：成本也许是一次性系统的1%。所以那样就只有100万美元，对吧？或者，是的，我们认为发射的边际成本可以，嗯，可能低于100万美元。那么对于超过100吨送入轨道，有其他人吗？不过100比15多，你刚才说50。

是的，很可能是100吨，而且随着设计的完善，可能达到150吨。所以从本质上说，它会是，嗯，你知道，猎鹰9号有效载荷的10倍，而，嗯，成本低15倍。所以那是怎么回事，100倍更好，你知道，这确实影响深远。嗯，从本质上说，有了星舰，就有可能，呃，让在火星上建立一座自给自足城市的经济账成立。嗯，以及在月球上建立一个基地，供那些想去那里的人使用。嗯，而且，呃，所以这确实是非常非常影响深远的发展。嗯，而这就是我花费大部分时间做的事，呃，推动星舰、星舰的发展。所以你可以去火星，或者无论你想怎样，在火星上建立文明。呃，在火星上的文明。那么什么在前，月球基地，还是月球基地在前，对吗？我的意思是，月球很近，所以我们不妨……

也去。好吧，是的，不妨去。它实际上就在那里附近，你知道。抱歉。嗯，你从国防部获得了一份合同，为NASA制造月球着陆器。来自NASA。嗯，杰夫·贝索斯正在对此提出异议。是的。你对此有什么感受？嗯，我想我已经，呃，表达过自己在这方面的想法。嗯，你知道，呃，如果我，我认为他应该把更多精力投入进入轨道，而不是诉讼。嗯，你不能，你无法看清自己通往月球的路。好吧。你知道你的律师有多优秀。是的。所以他为什么不那么做？我不知道。我也喜欢取笑他的火箭头。你们都取笑彼此的火箭。我的意思是，我觉得它确实有一个，我的意思是，它或许可以采用不同的形状，你知道。[笑声] 你能从技术角度……

解释一下为什么它是那个形状吗？嗯，如果你只打算进行亚轨道飞行，那么你的火箭可以稍微短一些。是的。[笑声] 所以你有没有打电话给他，说别这样，把它做大，或者怎样？我的意思是，我没有。我鼓励过，嗯，他把重点放在，呃，进入轨道上。是的。你会和他谈吗？我不是全球地。[音乐] 那么你打算用月球着陆器做什么，又怎么把月球基地送到那里？是的，所以，[音乐] 星舰本质上被设计成一种通往太阳系任何地方的通用运输系统，因为它是一种推进式着陆器，而使用推进式着陆器，你可以在任何具有固体表面的地方着陆。所以，而且它也为轨道补充燃料而设计，所以你可以把星舰送入轨道，然后派出加油飞船为它补充燃料，所以……

它有巨大的速度增量，基本上可以从地球轨道飞到很远的地方，因为你可以补充推进剂。月球基地很重要，因为，嗯，我认为月球基地——我的意思是，如果我们在月球上有一座正规的实验室，我们当然可以在科学上了解很多东西，比如宇宙的性质、我们都来自哪里、地球的早期历史，以及诸如此类的事情。是的，我们在南极洲有一个科学站，而且我们仍在从，呃，你知道，我们在南极洲的活动中学到很多东西。我认为我们在月球上能学到，呃，甚至更多。嗯，所以我认为，拥有——这有很多很多价值。我觉得那简直会酷毙了，我是说，拜托，就像我们必须，你知道，人类，让我们——你得代表一下。

在这里代表人类，你知道，让我们在月球上建一个基地。我想每个人都会说，太棒了，我们在月球里有基地了，那很酷，是啊，你知道。嗯，为了旅游——你觉得是什么，科学？科学，呃，科学，呃，我认为，如果你在月球上有某种科学站，就像我们在南极洲和许多其他地方都有科学站一样，那就能学到很多很多东西。嗯，而且，呃，我认为确实有价值，嗯，不应该贬低那些想体验，呃，进入轨道或前往月球的人。嗯，而且你知道，当他们这么做时，我认为在某种程度上，我们所有人都间接地和他们一起去了。你知道，当——当他们在 poll 计划中登上月球时，嗯，是的，那只是少数几个人。

在月球上，但我们所有人都间接地和他们一起去了，人类和他们一起去了。就像，如果你——如果你问地球上从彼得到保罗的所有人，说，告诉我，你认为人类也许有史以来最伟大的成就是什么，他们会说是登上月球，你知道。而且我认为，这会激励各地的孩子。所以你刚才提到了为平民站起来，那是你在做的太空旅游吗？顺便说一句，你得相当有钱才能做这件事。比如据我所知，我就负担不起去月球。是啊，我——我的意思是，我觉得它比，嗯，你知道，单纯的旅游更有分量——无论是隐喻意义上、比喻意义上还是字面意义上都更有分量。它不像去迪士尼乐园，你知道。它，呃，比那更深刻。

嗯，所以有时候人们会以某种负面的方式使用“旅游”这个词，但，嗯，我认为，你知道，尤其是那次灵感飞行，我觉得他们真的——我是说，他们，你知道，实时拍下了整件事。嗯，你知道，他们与全世界分享了自己的经历。那是一群非常酷的人。我建议观看 Netflix 的，呃，节目《Countdown》，Mark Pennyoff 谈到过它，太棒了。嗯，我——我与它没有任何关系，而且 Netflix 的《Countdown》纪录片制作水准惊人。嗯，你会了解到那些人的背景故事，而且，嗯，它，呃，真的超级酷。你知道，这大概是为了科学和拯救人类。是啊，我觉得，呃，至于旅游，嗯，我认为其中确实有旅游的成分。

在其中，但我认为，你知道，它也——你知道，技术最初是昂贵的。嗯，当你试图开发全新技术时，你——你不可能让它立刻变得，呃，便宜且人人负担得起。想想手机，最早的手机真的很贵，而且很烂，你知道。是啊，坦率地说，就像，你知道，通常就像《华尔街 1》里那样，你知道，他拿着鞋盒大小的手机沿海滩走着，用它说话之类的。所以它真的很贵，技术也没那么好。但——但如果没有一些人为昂贵的手机付钱，就不会有人人都买得起的廉价手机。所以要感谢亿万富翁进入太空。嗯，我是说，你知道。

呃，它不必排在你的感谢清单最前面，但我的意思是，这并不是——嗯，是啊，我只是说，有一个巢穴，当出现新技术时，呃，它必然很昂贵，直到，呃，你能改进设计，并且能够扩大规模。嗯，然后你就能让它更可负担。嗯，有一种常见的误解，认为某种新技术，尤其当它是实体物品时，你可以突然之间就让它变得便宜并且可获得。嗯，而且——而且，嗯，[音乐] 但你必须进行很多次设计迭代，而且必须扩大生产规模，获得规模经济。就像我们围绕反对 Tesla 的观点争论了很长时间，因为人们会说，好吧，你们当初为什么要制造这辆 Tesla Roadster？它——它基本上是。

一辆，你知道，它是一款给他的人的昂贵玩具跑车。我们会说，是的，确实如此，但，嗯，以这辆车而言，我们当时根本不可能制造出价格可负担的电动汽车。呃，任何——你知道，我们就是没有资本，也没有经验，而且我们需要经历几轮技术迭代，才能做到像 Model 3 这样的产品。

对，而且我实际上写过一篇博客谈这件事，因为我知道人们会说，你为什么要为富人制造富裕的运动级产品，好像我们认为人们不知怎么地缺少跑车一样，显然不是。嗯，但更好——你就是得，你得弄明白这项技术。呃，你必须经历多次设计——比如怎样才能把某种东西做成大众市场产品并让人负担得起？很多很多次设计迭代，很多很多个不同的技术版本，大量艰苦工作，然后你还必须提高生产速度，从而获得规模经济。这2件事，才会让任何特定技术能够为公众所用，而基本上，我们今天习以为常的每一项，呃，技术都经历过那个，呃，呃，所以那种认为你正在——

有一天去火星会变得可负担吗？是的，绝对会。它必须如此，才能让它——为了让莫兹成为一个自给自足的文明，它必须是可负担的。你说需要有足够多的人去。你知道，你为什么一直说想让人们去？因为你担心这个星球吗？还是你只是在赌，可能我们要么会把它炸掉，要么不会，就会像《后天》那样迁移？你知道，我——我认为这真的，嗯，你知道，如果你稍微看看，你知道，呃，就稍微退后一步，嗯，只要你——只要我们从我们这种天线争吵中退开一步，然后说，让我们看看这里的大局。[音乐] 我们可以采取哪一组行动，来最大限度提高文明的未来会是美好的概率，并且——

有利于意识？我认为，我们应该把地球上的意识视为纤弱的，而不是，呃，你知道，就是脆弱的。嗯，而且，你知道，我们能采取什么样的行动，来确保它延续下去，并让意识的范围和规模，呃，扩展？而且，嗯，我——我赞成扩展，因为，就像，你知道，如果我们想理解宇宙是怎么回事，以及——以及生命的意义是什么，我们就需要走出去弄清楚。嗯，我们越是扩大意识的范围和规模，就越有能力理解，面对那个名为宇宙的答案，应该提出什么问题。所以当你受到很多批评，比如关于椋鸟太空污染的批评——你会看到很多关于太空污染的报道——为什么埃隆·马斯克要放这么多？天文学家——

会对你生气，或者还有，嗯，火箭，所以你拿到了这些大型费用合同，这是第一次有人闯入这个领域，对吗？你如何面对这些批评？这些都只是小事。好，首先，就天文学家而言，嗯，我们正与，呃，世界领先的天文学家持续对话，嗯，并付出巨大努力，以确保，嗯，我们的卫星不会干扰他们的望远镜。嗯，而且我们已经——我相信到目前为止，他们确信不会。嗯，所以，呃，是啊，我们希望继续付出巨大努力，确保，呃，卫星不会反射光线，或者，你知道，呃，以其他方式干扰那些望远镜，包括最灵敏的望远镜。所以，嗯，你知道，也许有少数业余天文学家——

并不高兴，但专业人士确信，我们正在采取合理措施，确保我们不会妨碍科学，而且我们也绝不会想这么做。嗯，我们也在考虑，呃，使用星舰发射一些，呃，新的望远镜，因为星舰是大得多的飞行器。我们可以发射分辨率达到哈勃望远镜 10 倍的卫星，那会非常有利于科学。事实上，我们当时——有一个令人兴奋的项目，正与伯克利的首尔周界合作研制一颗大型新太空卫星，嗯，我应该说是太空望远镜。嗯，而且我认为我们会——我们会做更多这样的事。我认为归根结底，呃，星舰和 SpaceX 将大大推进，呃，我们对，呃，天体物理学和结构的理解。你仍然想——

你在我们上几次谈话时对我说过，你想死在火星上。你仍然想死在火星上吗？嗯，只要不是死于着陆，对。不是撞击，对。好吧，那会很壮观。是啊，但你没多少机会享受它，你知道，就 1 秒左右，或者成为留给其他人的一个故事。是啊，不，好吧，当时只是有人问我，呃，你想死在莫兹吗？我当时想，好吧，我想如果要在地球或火星之间选，我会觉得，出生在地球、倒在莫斯上挺酷的。我并不是——我并不是想直奔火星，然后就，你知道，跳下去之类的。嗯，只是，呃，是啊，我得选一个。你总得死在某个地方。当然，火星。嗯，我采访过很多天文——呃，我猜他们是生物学家。他们担心，嗯，基本上——

他们说你必须待在地表以下几百英尺。不不不，你会变矮，肯定不是几百，不需要那么多，几百，是的，你知道，你只需要，嗯，首先，有一半时间你会受到这个的屏蔽，受到火星本身的屏蔽。嗯，有一半的辐射仅靠这颗行星就能为你挡住，然后，嗯，你可能需要，我不知道，在屋顶上铺大约3英尺的土，或者只要弄一个厚屋顶。嗯，他们会没事的。嗯，所以所以你不担心搬到火星会让自己变得更矮、更蠢？呃，不，我认为我们实际上可能会变得更高一点，一点点，更高一点，是的，因为重力大约是两者的40。好吧，那对我来说会很好。当你思考，嗯，但我确实认为存在一个类似

在此之前的重要事项，如果你考虑各种大过滤器，嗯，如果你熟悉那种大感激之类的思想，嗯，你知道，其中一个过滤器就是我们是否会成为一个太空一个多行星物种。嗯，所以这至少是大过滤器中的一个，一个。我认为，如果我们能够，呃，通过它，那会很棒。嗯，并且，嗯，成为一个多行星物种，其中对于一座火星城市而言，关键门槛是，如果来自地球的补给飞船因为任何原因停止抵达，不论那是地球上的文明，可能是一个平凡的原因，也可能是第三次世界大战，那么火星会繁荣发展还是会灭亡？如果火星缺少任何东西，哪怕只是相当于文明所需的维生素C，那么它最终都会灭亡。所以你

需要达到这样一个阶段：即使地球，来自地球的飞船停止抵达，一座火星城市也能自给自足，那么你就通过了大过滤器，或者至少通过了那个特定的大文化。我认为我们应该，呃，努力尽快通过那个大过滤器。[音乐] 他上次和我们交谈时说很快。是的，我是说，我认为我们真的应该努力争取在本世纪让它发生。嗯，在本世纪结束之前。你会很老。我可能已经死了。是的，不是在火星上。嗯，我是说，我会，你知道，等我老了或什么时候过去转一圈。好吧，那么，嗯，你正在做的事情之一是许多政府交易。你正在做这个月球着陆器，他做了那个火箭项目。嗯，你正从2那里获得数十亿。

那里有90亿美元，对吧，嗯，现在我们什么都拿不到，因为一切都受到追查，对吧。没错，抱歉。好吧，是的，但你拿到了很多钱，希望我们会拿到，对吧。对，对，等结束的时候，是的。嗯，任何，对吧，我是说，要说清楚，我们的大多数发射都是商业发射。是的，我明白，但你们承接了很多政府工作，那么与政府合作是什么样的？我是说，这对你们的业务重要吗？是的，我是说，这是，这是业务的一个重要部分，是业务的一个重要部分。我是说，只是，只是很，我是说，请记住，比如说，如果你从事任何行业，假设你是一家铅笔制造商，好吧，你大约40的铅笔会流向政府。政府约占40的

经济，你知道，如果你是一家鞋类制造商，你大约40的业务会与政府有关。所以你知道，可以预料，任何、任何公司都会有，呃，呃，大多数公司都会有一定比例的业务与州、联邦和地方政府有关，而这个比例与政府在GDP中的占比相称。所以，对你的一项批评是，你缴的税不够，如果有缴的话。嗯，你能回应一下吗？因为你在从政府那里拿钱，你显然希望能在政府体系内运作，呃，以便建造各种东西并提供服务。你如何看待这种权衡？呃，嗯，我是说，ProPublica发布了一堆非常具有误导性的东西，嗯，而那实际上是某种把戏

而且实际上，他们那样做对自己没有任何好处。嗯，呃，首先，就SpaceX赢得的政府合同而言，呃，我们的志向是用最少的钱做最多的事，如果你看看我们赢得的所有合同，嗯，我们之所以赢得它们，是因为我们的价格最优，我们以更低的价格提供更好的服务。它们不是直接送给我们的。我不认为它们是。而这正是我所说的。事实上，你给我打过电话，说我们经过多年这种互相拍背的事情之后终于进去了，我认为这是一件很棒的事。难道不棒吗？当然。我的意思是，就月球土地而言，只拿那个作为一个例子，嗯，我们的床是Blue Origin、洛克希德那张床价格的一半，一半。对于一台基本上能多做10倍或8倍

洗澡，我们的价格是一半，而且NASA肩负着重返月球的任务，所以相对于那份合同，我们为纳税人节省了大约30亿美元。嗯，所以我认为那是，那是一件好事。至于我的个人税务，嗯，嗯，我实际上不领取薪水或任何东西。我的现金报酬基本上是零。嗯，这是一件好事，因为收入对大多数人来说是个问题，而且因为他们对收入缴税。我想那就是那篇报道的全部要点。是的，是的。嗯，所以，嗯，我确实有袜子期权，嗯，它们是最好的，因此在那些年份里，但、但我不，我基本上，对于，嗯，Tesla和SpaceX，我只是，嗯，确实没有费心去把钱撤出来，而这是一种常见的做法，大多数人都会这样做，他们卖掉一部分股票，把钱撤出来

嗯，而对我来说，我只是，比如说，我，你知道，我的想法会是，那种，它是，它是第一个进去的，而我会是最后一个出来的。而且，嗯，SpaceX和Tesla的成功远非板上钉钉，有很多次，公司看起来会，而且它们确实，它们很多次与破产擦肩而过。但我从未试图把钱撤出来，而现在这件事却被试图颠倒过来，说成一件坏事，而我，这，这太离谱了。嗯，所以，嗯，但当我的股票期权，呃，嗯，就在我的股票期权到期之前，那么我，我被迫行权，而我的最高边际税率是53%，所以我，我不认为那特别低，而且明年还会提高，大概会是57或类似的数字。你能卖吗？是的，而且，而且我，呃，我是，我有一堆

有一些期权将在明年年初到期，呃，所以我，呃，那一大批期权将在第四季度卖出，因为我必须这么做，否则它们就会到期，而我的最高边际税率，呃，是53%，所以你最终会缴纳很多税，但数额巨大，是的，我的意思是，基本上我所说的大部分都会是税。我认为它并不是在指控违法行为，而是说富人可以用他们的股票作抵押借款。呃，是的，他们是这么说的，好像借款在某种程度上是一种逃避缴税的把戏，但，嗯，更重要的是要记住，我们的经济已经经历了非常漫长的扩张期，呃，或许是有史以来最长的，而以股票作抵押借款，一切都算是好玩又轻松，直到经济衰退来临，你收到追加保证金通知，然后你就归零了。

这就是，基本上每次发生经济衰退时都会出现的情况。嗯，股票并不总是上涨，也会下跌。你的似乎会。大多数股票都上涨了，坦率地说，包括一些有问题的股票。你是在说你自己吗？抱歉，我想问，你对它涨了这么多感到惊讶吗？是的，我的意思是，我确实曾公开说过，我认为巴士股票的价格太高了，这是我的看法，而这完全没能阻止股票竞赛继续上涨，所以我不知道，我该怎么办呢，你知道。嗯，我，我不是让它起飞的人。嗯，所以，嗯，但我认为需要记住的是，我的实际税率是53。他们试图让这听起来像是，基本上Tesla股票的价值大幅增长，然后他们把数字加在一起，他们只是非常有选择性地戳取了

这些数字，让它听起来像是我缴的税非常少，但事实上我的税非常高，大概超过一半。嗯，而且你会在开放时缴税。是的，由于期权即将到期，未来3个月将缴纳巨额税款。还有那么1年，我想我的税基本上是零，原因是我前1年多缴了税。他们忘了提这一点。你没有给他们回电话。我要给他们回电话。你对真相毫无兴趣。哦，好吧，好吧。嗯，让我问你一个问题。嗯，Twitter，我们先说完Twitter，然后再回答观众的问题。你和Twitter是怎么回事？我是个Twitter成瘾者，我总是在说错话。谁来给我解释一下。

这和你说它是你的泄压阀非常接近，这是让你感觉好一点的地方。是的，我想我说过，有些人，有些人用头发来表达自己，我用Twitter。你对其中任何事情感到后悔吗，还是不后悔？你算是相当引人注目。是的，我的意思是，当然。讲讲你决定发一条推文时的过程，你会，不不不。嗯，我会想上几个小时，然后咨询我的策略团队。你真的就是直接发。是的，是的，或者也许我喝醉了，或者没获批准。[笑声] 我朝自己的脚开一枪，家人们，现在让我再朝自己开一小枪，砰。是的，这描述了我的一些推文。你，嗯，担心SEC今后会介入你的推文吗？嗯，那几个字母又代表什么来着？我的意思是，我知道中间那个词是埃隆的，但我记不起另外2个词了。你

需要回答，你需要回答我。你担心他们会说，埃隆，别再发推文了吗？你是在说卖空者致富委员会吗？是的，是的，这是新名字。是吗？是的，是的。他们没有拿到你最近发的一条关于……的特定推文。他确实发过一条很棒的，等等，是关于时间的，说时间是，呃，货币，我觉得那很美。时间是终极货币。是的。嗯，不管你拥有多少资源，你都无法让时钟倒转。这是真的。是的，不管你多富有。是的，但后来你发了那条拜登推文。你能解释一下吗？哦，当时，嗯，好吧，是的，我的意思是，所以你知道，拜登举行了这场电动车峰会，没有邀请Tesla，却邀请了通用、福特、克莱斯勒和UAW，海军峰会在白宫举行。嗯，一次都没有提到Tesla，却称赞德国福特引领了

伊娃摔跤革命。所以你生气了。所以这听起来，呃，也许有点偏袒，呃，或者类似的情况。嗯，所以，嗯，而且你知道，只是，呃，这届政府不是最友好的。嗯，我，是的，它现在似乎受某个地方的工会控制。那么你是在等特朗普回来吗？呃，不。[音乐] 除了你自己，你想当总统吗？我一点也不想当总统。听起来当总统一点都不好玩。嗯，你认为如果还有什么能让我们的国家团结起来，会是什么？搬去火星。什么？嗯，我认为，如果有某个，呃，温和的，你知道，算是，算是中间派的总统，我认为，呃，那会有所帮助。嗯，你知道，我认为每个人只是想要，呃，我认为大多数人，大多数人想要一位只是非常能干的，你知道，行政管理者的总统。

你知道，不要太偏左，也不要太偏右，而且而且每个人都会觉得，我认为［音乐］大多数人会更喜欢那样，呃，你知道，有时候到了选举的时候，你有2个选择，你会觉得，你知道，也许2个选择你都不喜欢，但你必须选1个。你认为那会发生吗？我认为那会是，我是否认为那会是什么，有意思，我希望如此。这要怎么开始，关于民主，嗯，我并不是特别担心民主。嗯，你担心民主吗？哦，有一点。什么让你担忧？呃，很多对话正变得有点，我研究宣传。哦，对，这令人担忧。那种认为这不可能在这里发生的想法，它当然有可能。我是菲利普·罗斯那一类的人，所以是的。嗯，但我们2个人都生了很多孩子，所以我们一定相信未来。是的，我们有

我们之间共有10个孩子。没错，我相信是的。你稍微领先，但你有一枚火箭。嗯，不管怎样，我，我，我，我确实认为我们，存在，嗯，你知道，我认为很多人觉得地球上的人太多了，但我认为实际上人太少了，而且，而且对人类文明而言，可能唯一最大的风险就是迅速下降的增长率，而事实就摆在那里，任何人都可以去看，但很多人仍然停留在，你知道，珀尔，呃，保罗·伊利克的《人口爆炸》一书上，就像，呃，那是很久以前的事了。如今并非如此。嗯，而且，人口统计数据中有一个，去年出现了一个巨大的缺口，呃，因为出生率暴跌了，今年也是如此。所以我的意思是，如果，你知道，没有婴儿，就没有人类，但你有

来自某个地方。哦，好吧，我们就以此结束。我们需要观众提问，有很多很棒的问题。嘿，拉娜，我是Field Trip的罗南·利维。我们花了很多时间讨论外太空，我们想问问你内在空间，具体问题是，在把人送往火星之前，你是否会花时间思考人类某种程度上的破坏性倾向？具体来说，你谈到过DMT这个话题，我很好奇，你认为迷幻药可能在应对人类一些更具破坏性的倾向方面发挥什么作用？我们明天会讨论这个。哦，好吧。嗯，我认为总体而言，呃，人们应该对迷幻药持开放态度。对。［掌声］所以，是的，显然这是一个，我是说，你知道，是的，很多人正在制造

法律某种程度上来自另一个时代，所以我认为，如你所知，随着新一代进入政治权力体系，我想我们会看到对迷幻药益处的接受程度提高。人类目前的倾向让你担忧吗，比如在我们去火星之前，我是说人类的倾向？我是说，我们正处于历史上一个非常和平的时刻，嗯，所以你必须把这类新闻头条与现实区分开来。嗯，我认为就像斯蒂芬·平克霍比特确实指出的那样，我们实际上正处于人类历史上人均暴力程度最低的时期。嗯，可能感觉并非如此，但客观而言，统计数据就是这样。嗯，这不是说没有暴力，或者没有需要改进的事情，但它，你知道，其实相当不错，然后，所以，嗯，但是

呃，你知道，就像我说的，从大局来看，我们，我认为我们希望采取一系列能最大限度提高未来是美好的这一概率的行动。[音乐] 并且让文明延续下去，让这个，呃，可以说是虚空中的一小簇意识烛光，也就是人类，继续存在，而且不会，不是，烛光不会熄灭。好的，下一位在这里。你好，嗯，我叫莉娜，是芝加哥大学的一名学生，我还有一个名为《Kind of Sort of Brown》的播客。嗯，所以我的问题有一点围绕着你谈到的内容，也就是，你知道，你正在为尚且人数不足的人建设这个世界，但现在已经在这里的人，嗯，不过说到年轻人，你实际上要怎样建设基础设施，确保你不只是在建设

让人们待在火星上的资源，而是真正让他们在政治上处于掌权地位，或者教育那些没有机会了解太空技术等等的人？你实际上要怎样教导年轻人并把他们带进来？你觉得那是你的职责吗，还是说你的职责只是建造前往火星的飞船？嗯，我们的首要目标是创造把人送往火星所必需的技术，缺少这种技术的话，不，你知道，这多少有点学术化。嗯，所以我们不想偏离我们的首要使命，我们，我们必须至少让去火星成为可能。嗯，而且我们想尽快做到，并让尽可能广泛的人能够前往火星，让它尽可能负担得起，这样如果有人

想去，他们就能去。所以那，那就是我们的首要使命。嗯，我是说，世界上有许多崇高的事业，但我们必须谨慎，不要试图，嗯，承担太多。呃，我是说，有许多崇高的使命，但我们，我们必须选择自己的战斗，然后说，好吧，让我们只确保把这件事完成。嗯，而且，呃，因为没有其他人在做。我是说，如果，如果 SpaceX 不做，我不确定这要怎样实现。我认为这，这，呃，至少在目前，SpaceX 是，呃，唯一的希望。所以我们，我们会把这件事完成，而它离完成还很远。我是说，它还有很，很长的路要走。嗯，是的，我，我，在向那些确实无法上网、或者上网非常昂贵的人提供互联网、互联网连接方面进行安装，我认为会有助于，嗯，赋予很多

如今被剥夺权力的人，所以我认为那也是一件好事。好，下一位。嗨，科技之王。嗯，你如何回应那些指控？你叫他科技之王？对。好的，那是我的正式头衔。我发现了这一点。跟你一起，你得表示尊重，卡拉。你如何回应这种指控：呃，你是一个从未来派来拯救我们的活体赛博遗传有机体？其次，我既不能证实，也不能否认这一点。他很厉害，他很厉害。其次，你认为，呃，具有更大实用性的通用区块链在价值上超越像比特币中的一个鱼、成品的概率是多少？实际上，我不确定该怎样回答最后一个问题。嗯，我只是总体认为，呃，公共账本之类的东西是好的。嗯，因为，呃，我喜欢开源，而且只是，而且

只是，你知道，呃，阳光是很好的消毒剂，越少有事情发生在黑暗中就越好。嗯，而且，呃，你知道，可以说是一种隐秘的，基本上，我是说，区块链是 [音乐] 只是一个，它是一个密码学账本。嗯，一个开放的，你知道，所以我认为，呃，可能有很多可以用它完成的好事。所以第一个问题，我说我既不能证实，也不能否认。好的，这边。嘿，埃隆，我是 The Verge 的亚历克斯·希思。嗯，问题是关于你们正在推出的自动驾驶测试版。想知道你为什么鼓励人们不要分享视频，让他们签署保密协议，只是很好奇。不，我是说，有很多视频正在被分享。呃，但是 NDI，这些用于、用于完全自动驾驶测试版的 NDA，我不知道。嗯，人们似乎不听

MD 的，我是说，我不确定是否有，呃，是的，我不知道为什么这会写在保密协议里。我们可能不需要它，但反正人们就是无视它，所以我确信这很重要。好了，所以我要忽略这个。我会继续提问。我们来问2个。嗨。嗨，我是来自 BCG 的阿兰齐娅·优素福。你能谈一点人工智能和机器人技术吗？你过去表达过担忧，但你知道，你自己也在造一些。你认为在这方面我们确实必须解决的问题是什么？嗯，我很长时间以来一直说，我认为人工智能安全是一件非常重大的事，我们应该设立某种监管机构来监督人工智能安全。[音乐] 但目前还没有任何这样的东西。而且，而且一般来说，任何由政府设立的监管机构通常都会

花费数年时间才能建立。所以，嗯，你知道，继 [音乐] 人口崩溃问题之后，我认为人工智能安全可能是对文明未来的第2大威胁。嗯，而且，嗯，是的，就像我说的，我不太确定该拿它怎么办。嗯，我是说，Tesla 可以说是世界上最大的机器人制造商，因为比如，我们基本上拥有类似的半自动驾驶汽车，最终将实现完全自动驾驶。嗯，而且我们正在制造一个人形机器人，它基本上会像，嗯，像，像汽车但长了腿。[音乐] 所以 [音乐] 嗯，而且我算是，呃，把做这件事推迟了一段时间，因为，你知道，我，我当然不想加速人工智能末日，但很明显，看看波士顿动力，而且像这种人形机器人终究会出现。所以，嗯，它们真的将要

出现，无论有没有 Tesla 都会出现。所以就像，Tesla，我有多一点，我是说，多得多的能力去确保，呃，机器人安全和人工智能安全，而我会尽最大努力做到这一点。你会怎么做？不，我们不能再问了，抱歉，我们得快点。首先，呃，谢谢你制造了第1辆让我爱上的汽车。嗯，我喜欢这辆车。我的妻子坚持让我在来到这里后问这个问题。我们也有多得不得了的孩子。嗯，那可能很棒。如果有任何可能让你给 X 装一个车顶行李架，那就是她想要的。呃，呃，我们需要在 X 上装一个车顶行李架。如果，如果你能解决这个问题，那几乎比去火星还重要。嗯，我们还没解决这个问题。我是说，这很棘手，因为我们有那些很炫的车门。它们很棒。对，那些车门很棒，但你

知道，如果你装了车顶行李架，比如你要怎样阻止车门把你砸烂？你很聪明。对，谢谢。而 Model Y 有车顶行李架，不过它不够大，装不下所有孩子。真的吗？它有7个座位。不，不是正常的孩子。好的，你为自己的孩子准备了不同的车吗？你吃掉他们。你想要埃隆·马斯克。它确实有拖车钩，你可以拖着你的东西。2个问题，埃隆。谢谢你造出 Plaid，这是一辆很棒的车。嗯，在我们所有人都，呃，你知道，等待完全自拍时，那太棒了。真的，它很棒。我们喜欢，我们可能得为那个蛋黄争论一下，但我们正在习惯它。它很棒。你知道，它就像某种不同的东西，而且它，它很不同，而人们有时不喜欢不同的东西，但你把它放低了多少？它在推

你，对吧？是你的孩子吗？我的孩子喜欢那个蛋黄，所以那对他们管用。总之，真的，真的，很快说一下。听着，我们生活在这样一个过渡时期，介于我们自己驾驶汽车和汽车自己驾驶之间。它们是半自动驾驶的。对于我们这些业内人士、我们这些懂一些技术和机器学习的人来说，实际上，比如，这相当容易。它纠正我的错误，我也经常纠正它的错误。不过媒体上有很多相关报道，而且谷歌的立场当然是，这就像是最糟糕的状态，对吧？因为人们会走神，而汽车会自己开进……你怎么看待我们目前算是，你知道，正在接受的机器学习与人类混合体？这种交叉过渡期还会持续多久？

我知道你相信sfst就快实现了，你觉得这真的是个问题吗？我们要教人们应对机器学习吗？嗯，我是说，向新技术过渡的时期总是有点颠簸，而且但我想我们公布了安全统计数据，比如基本上是使用Autopilot行驶的英里数和手动驾驶的英里数，而这，我是说，相差一个数量级。所以，比如人们说，哦，好吧，你在操弄统计数据。我就说，听着，我们只是说使用Autopilot行驶的英里数，而不是汽车行驶的英里数，两者有10倍，回到10倍的差距。所以我的意思是，即使我们像是——我们没有篡改统计数据，事实就是如此。这不是细微差异，我说的是，它不是细微差异。嗯，事实是，人们其实不太擅长驾驶这些

2吨重的死亡机器，你知道，而且人们会疲倦，他们，嗯，会喝醉，会分心，会发短信，还会做各种他们不该做的事情，然后那些车，你知道，基本上就撞了。嗯，而且，嗯，[音乐] 现在，当初我们开始推进自动驾驶时，呃，有人告诉我一件我认为很正确的事，那就是即使为了便于讨论，呃，你通过自动驾驶将死亡人数减少90%，嗯，在自动驾驶情况下确实死亡的那10个人仍然会起诉你，对吧？活着的那90个人甚至不知道那就是他们活着的原因。嗯，尽管如此，嗯，[音乐] 我与 Tesla Autopilot 全自动驾驶团队谈过很多次，他们是一群非常杰出的人，嗯，我对他们说，听着，各位，去

[音乐] 追求，比如真正做正确的事，比让人觉得你在做正确的事更重要。只要我们确信自己做的是正确的事，即使遭到批评、被起诉以及所有那些事，我们也不仅应该做正确的事，而且不应只在乎别人是否觉得这是正确的事。好的，最后一个问题。抱歉，Rick Cutter，公用事业云。呃，非常感谢你与、与Tesla一起完成的卡片工作，推动了电动汽车市场。随着我们转向更多绿色能源，公用事业公司正在淘汰化石燃料电厂、燃煤电厂，投资可再生能源；它们能够提供的经济产出存在差异。随着电动汽车持续增长，你是否有任何担忧？你认为未来我们可能面临与

能源有关的供应链问题吗？是的，我认为那是个，那是个非常好的问题。完整答案很长，我会尽量给出简短版本。电力需求大致上，如果，如果我们要，如果我们，如果我们把，嗯，或者把交通运输转向电动，那么电力需求大约会翻倍，也许会比翻倍再多一点。嗯，而这会给电网带来很多挑战，嗯，尤其是向社区配电方面。这就是为什么Tesla有太阳能屋顶和太阳能改装产品，因为即使你在公用事业层面增加可持续电力生产，你仍然会遇到配电问题，需要在中功率线路附近新建大功率线路，你需要大幅扩大变电站的规模，这

意味着你将不得不开始拆除房屋，以扩大变电站规模。除非住宅处有，呃，大量本地发电，否则这确实行不通。这就是为什么我认为，嗯，那个、解决方案中一个必要部分其实非常重要，那就是在、在房间上、在住宅的房屋上进行本地发电，非常重要。当然，我们还需要大型可持续发电项目，呃，主要是风能和太阳能。[音乐] 但需要与电池组搭配，以在稳态下提供持续电力。在这方面，许多好事正在发生。过去几年太阳能的增长令人难以置信，我想太阳能的复合年增长率大概是40%，而且，呃，另外也有大幅增长的是

风能。我也算是支持核能的，一个核能、核能支持者，一个核能[音乐]。而且，你知道，我对很多反核能的公众情绪有些惊讶。我不是说我们应该去建一大堆新核电站，但我认为我们不应该关闭那些安全运行的核电站。嗯，而且，嗯，但他们这么做了，比如他们在德国就这么做了，我认为那是，而且然后，而且不得不建造一大堆燃煤电厂，而坦率地说，我，我认为那不是，呃，正确的决定。所以，嗯，是的，不管怎样，无论如何，我们都必须拥有多得多的发电量。嗯，而这，这主要将归结为太阳能和风能，呃，与电池搭配，这将是我们的下一次谈话。好的，那

不无聊，太阳能听起来不错。好的，我能再听一个问题吗？有一次，我们几年前在 Code 谈过，你说我们身处一个模拟之中。过去这几年似乎真的上去了。是啊，感觉像是未来的一群青少年真的抽了很多大麻，还跟我们一起。我们，我们身处模拟之中吗？我的心说不，而我的大脑说是。埃隆·马斯克。

[Music] we were bond is opening today it's my favorite movie so i felt like i had to do something like that anyway how you doing good how are you good what's the mood of elon today the the mood it could be anything i feel good here yeah yeah all right we have a lot to talk about right where do you want to start uh anywhere you'd like to talk all right china um cryptocurrency what they're doing uh that's my safe word by the way okay um what they're doing currency yeah cryptocurrencies yeah it'll kill any insider for later for us go ahead um cryptocurrency in china yes what they're doing around bitcoin etc and i'd like to pivot to what the us is going to do around regulation uh well it it it would appear that they don't love cryptocurrency appear it appears

yeah yeah it's subtle but uh [Laughter] yeah you're hinting in that direction um yeah so um i can't speak to exactly why they don't like it that much but people can speculate for various reasons um china by the way it has is having some significant uh electricity generation issues yeah so actually i think part of it may actually be due to uh electricity shortages in many parts of china so a lot of south south china right now is having random um power outages uh because the power demand is higher than expected um so crypto mining might be playing a role in that i'm not sure um this is further than that yes wasn't that um well i suppose uh cryptocurrency is fundamentally aimed at um reducing the power of a centralized government yes it is and that they

they don't like that okay that's my guess okay so what do you think's going to happen i mean maybe the audience has years went up it didn't matter after they announced this they went down and they went up you can change the shares of cryptocurrency more than china can is that a good thing um [Music] if it goes up i suppose it is um but uh i mean i think there's an always long-term role for for crypto um and um you know really people should think of any kind of uh money system whether it's historic value or currency as as really a form of information um if you apply information theory to money whether it's cryptocurrency or some other form and view it in terms of you know how good is it at um you know sort of bandwidth latency uh jitter uh dropping packets

uh which was you'd say like fraud is like losing packets or something on the network um and um you know it's overall security uh then i think a lot of these things just seem to just make make a lot of sense in that in that regard like any form of money has no power in and of itself except as an exchange of uh value between people uh for goods or services or to translate uh things in time like alone so is this the right thing for governments to do to take control of it is it possible i it is not possible to i think destroy crypto but it is possible for governments to slow down its advancement so what should the us government do we had gary gensler on earlier sec chairman he was calling it the wild west of finance what should they do that if anything i

would say do nothing okay they're not saying that yeah i mean i wouldn't seriously just let that play because um what what do you think governments can do i think they can like you said they can ruin it i don't think they can just slow it down i think they can stop it i don't think they can control it and therefore they may want to stop it yeah i mean i i i'm i wouldn't say that i'm some you know massive cryptocurrency expert um you know i think the there's some value in cryptocurrency i don't think it's like the sep the second coming of the messiah which we also think um you know it's uh it will hopefully reduce the uh error and latency in the money system the legacy money systems and reduce the yeah i mean just you know uh governments have a habit of

um editing the money database um which is like probably some ancient mainframe somewhere in virginia ryan cobol if i it's kind of bleak to think about that um but uh so you know when governments can't give the hand out of the cookie jar and edit the money database there's probably some value to that okay so what are you you're saying you're not an expert but you spend a lot of time tweeting about it now you tweet about a lot of things we'll get to that in a minute um but why is why that's true why is that of interest to you crypto because you become i wouldn't say the crypto messiah but yeah that's going to be oh no um well i mean i mostly don't tweet about crypto this is a minority of small number of tweets okay so um i do know a lot about the money

system and payments and how it actually works as opposed to say how economists think it works um on a practical basis just how money money is just basically the monetary system is a series of heterogeneous databases uh that uh are not real time with the exception of paypal and a few others um and engage and to reconcile on a batch basis uh you know that that may take anywhere from 24 hours to several days um and um so just it's slow that's just a lot of latency in general and uh the ach system is has basically no security um so and this has just been the it was that way when paypal started in 99 and it's uh still that way 22 years later it needs reform yeah yeah exactly um so i want to move on to um when china i want to stick with china for a second you're

operating there selling there what do you make of what they're doing to the tech entrepreneurs there or the tech mobiles um well hmm where is jack ma where is china we have some means to find out i'm guessing i well uh maybe um i don't know i think there's there are there are some uh changes of put in china um i think part of this may be actually covered related in the sense that um it's been quite difficult to have in-person meetings in china and china really runs the whole system is set up to run on the basis of in-person meetings and the absence of of these meetings for the past 18 months i think has [Music] probably led to things being worse than they would be if there were more in-person meetings so i think as covert lifts and the in-person meetings

return i think the uh i think probably there will be an increase in the in the sort of trust level and i think things will probably start heading in a more positive direction the trust level between tech and the government yeah both internally within china and uh with respect to uh people from the u.

s and other countries going and visiting and meeting with officials in the chinese government now it's just it china is very much set up to work with the in-person meetings and so kobut i think has impeded that um so i think i think things will improve most likely as the in-person meetings should resume so they did these anti-trust actions because they couldn't say hello i think not all of it can be described to that but it's uh some of it can be um yeah um well we'll see i i i i suspect things will improve next year because of just better more interaction are you nervous about what you're doing there it's a big market for you it's a you operate there yeah um we've got a big factory in shanghai which is doing very well at tesla trying to tell that the

tesla china team is uh doing great work and we we do well with selling in the chinese park as well as producing cars for china and for export to europe um so overall things are going pretty well frankly you're not worried about u.

s china i relations it's not no not not especially right now especially all right so let's talk about space you know you had a recent um space you would send up a bunch of civilians into space you did not send yourself up uh no i've not set myself up um i suppose i will at some point but my goal is not to set myself up my goal is to open up space for humanity and ultimately set us on a path becoming a space-breaking civilization and a multi-planet species yes so you don't want to go up yourself it's near the hero there i will go at some point what do you think of the other efforts to go to suborbital civil wall suburbal is a step in the direction of orbit but so but just to put things into perspective you need about a hundred times more energy to get

to orbit versus sub orbit um and then to get back from morbid you need to burn off that energy so you need a like heavy-duty heat shield because you're coming in like a meteor yes so so like orbit is roughly towards magnitude more difficult than than subway but it's still you know good to do something in space what do you think watching those uh both uh richard branson and jeff bezos doing that um i thought it was cool that they're um spending money on the advancement of space i think we ultimately want to be humanity wants to be should want to be a space-bearing civilization and out there among the stars and we want i think we really want you know i mean all these things that we see in science fiction movies and books like you know we want those to be

like real one day not always fiction right so i think it's good that people are spending their money advancing space technology so last time we talked we didn't talk a lot about space we talked about a whole bunch we talked about meat flaps which was elon's word for speaking yeah or flapping arm yeah slow tonal wheezing yes that's right when i sound like it right now that's what we sound like to a computer like whale sound slow down yeah so we can talk about space so let's talk a little bit about where you think you've advanced with what you're doing because i think you're probably the most fast forward of all these efforts yeah so with respect to spacex um let's see um i mean there's two besides uh overlooking space flight and uh providing transport

for nasa of astronauts and cargo to and from the space station which we've been doing for a while now over a decade we are we have something called starlink which is a global internet system um and this is i think gonna have some profound positive effects on the world because this star link is really designed to serve the the least served um you have 1300 satellites up right now is that correct 50 1500 and you want to put 30 000 um yeah we'll get to space pollution in a minute but explain the reasons for it yeah so in order to provide high bandwidth low latency connectivity to a large number of people you need a lot of satellites and they need to be at low earth orbit so that latency is is low the problem with satellites that are at geostationary orbit

is that they are you know around 36 000 kilometers uh whereas we are at 550 kilometers so gigantic difference in latency [Music] for the starling system you could play like a competitive video game um that's latency dependent and and still be able to play it with starling um it's like browsing a terrestrial system essentially um and but starlink is really just to be clear not a threat to 5g or terrestrial fiber or anything like that it's um but it's very well suited to low to medium density regions of the earth places that where it is too expensive to trench fiber or put cells you know 5g cellular base stations and so it's really a good it kind of takes care of the the people that that just didn't get internet or either it's too too slow or too expensive

or they just don't have it at all it's very well suited a space-based system for serving like the least served maybe five percent or something like that how big a part of your space business is it from your perspective i mean i think it's quite significant in that the launch side of things just just launching other people's satellites and serving the space station uh probably tops out around you know three or four billion dollars a year of revenue whereas if we can get to say three percent of global internet traffic then that that's and that's roughly a trillion dollar a year business then we can increase our revenue by order of magnitude to more like the 30 billion or something like that um and and then we can use the proceeds from that to develop the

rocket technology necessary to get humanity to mars and to the moon and else elsewhere in the solar system so that's that's so then the you know so so i think sonic is is good in and of itself uh for providing uh like i said providing internet access to the the least served in the world and it's a fundamentally good thing in that respect um and also offering a little bit of competition in the cities although the you know stanley can really maybe uh serve less than five percent of people in a city it's just because of the way the the the spot beams from space are very big so um anyway it's a very nice compliment and a necessary complement to [Music] uh 5g and uh fiber um so uh and likes it will provide a revenue stream for us to develop our next generation

rocket which is a starship um with starship that we're trying to achieve the a fundamental breakthrough that is the holy grail of rocketry uh that is to have a fully reusable oval rocket um this is this is extremely fundamental um with falcon 9 we have a mostly reusable rocket she recently approved it landed correct uh we've been landing for quite a while now but um so we in fact a number of our boosters are on their 10th uh reflect so we've shown that reusing the boost stage is can be done and that it is economically uh sensible to do so the difference in price between our falcon 9 competitors um in using a reusable rocket oh yeah sure um so uh it's it's really gigantic um uh without with falcon 9 we still have to uh lose the upper stage and you can

think of each stage being like the equivalent of a jet airplane so the boost age is like the big jet airplane upper stage is the small jet airplane we still throw away the small generator plane every time so [Music] falcon 9 is able to be the most competitive rocket in the world because we recover the blue stage in the fairing but that but still our best case marginal cost of launch not taking into account uh overhead allocation is about 15 million dollars per launch yeah for 15 tons to orbit that's which is quite big like spacex um over the last year or so has uh delivered about i think roughly two-thirds of all payload to orbit of earth and most of the remaining third is china and then everyone else is kind of they're in the miscellaneous um so [Music]

um so anyway so but we still have a it's still 15 million dollars because of the most because what's the cost differential between that and what you're aiming for yeah so um basically falcon 9 is effectively about half to a third of the cost of alternatives because of the reuse of the boost age with uh starship uh we should be able to get to the point where uh it's maybe one percent the the cost of an expendable system so that would just be a million bucks right or yeah the marginal cost of launch we think can be um it could be potentially under a million dollars so is there anybody for over a hundred tons to orbit 100 more though than 15 you said 50.

yes 100 tons likely and with refinement of the design probably 150 tons so essentially it's it would be um you know uh 10 times the payload of falcon 9 uh for um 15 times lower cost so what's that happening 100 better you know it's really profound um essentially with starship it is possible uh to make the economics close for creating a self-sustaining city on mars um and a base on the moon for those who want to go there um and uh so it's really very very profound development um and that's what i'm spending most of my time on is uh driving the development of starship starships so you can go to mars or however you want civilization on mars uh civilization on mars so what's first the moon base or moon base first correct i mean the moon is close so we might

as well okay yeah you might as well it's practically right there you know excuse me um you got a contract with the defense department to do a lunar lander from nasa from nasa um which is being disputed by jeff bezos yes how do you feel about that well i think i've uh expressed my thoughts on that front um you know uh if i i think he should put more of his energy into getting to orbit than lawsuits um you can't you cannot see your way to the moon okay you know how good your lawyers are yeah so why isn't he doing that i don't know i also like to make fun of his rock head you all make fun of each other's rockets i mean i think it does have a i mean it could be a different shape potentially you know [Laughter] could you explain from a technological point

of view why it's that shape well um if you are only going to doing suborbital then your rocket can be sort of shorter yes [Laughter] so have you called him and said cut this get bigger or what i mean i haven't i've encouraged um him to emphasize uh getting to orbit yeah you talk to him i'm not globally [Music] so what are you going to do with the lunar lander and how do you get the moon base there yeah so [Music] starship is designed essentially as a general purpose transport system to anywhere in the solar system because it is a propulsive lander and with a propulsive lander you can land anywhere that's got a solid surface so and it's also designed for orbital refilling so you can get the starship to orbit and then send tanker flights to refill it so

that it has a tremendous delta velocity basically it can go very far from earth orbit because you can refill propellant the moon base is important because um well i think that the moon base i mean certainly there's like a lot we could learn scientifically if we had a proper laboratory on the moon about the nature of the universe and you know where we all came from in the early history of earth and that kind of thing yeah we have a science station in antarctica and we're still learning a lot from uh you know our activities in antarctica and i think we could learn uh even more on the moon um so there's a lot of a lot of value i think to having uh i think it'd be just freaking cool i mean come on it's like we gotta you know humanity let's you got to represent

here for humanity you know let's have a base on the moon but i think everyone would be like the hell yeah we got a base in the moon that's cool yeah you know um for tourism what do you think was the science science uh science uh i think like the a lot of a lot can be learned if you've got a sort of a science station on the moon like we've got a science station in antarctica and many other places um and uh i think that there's i think there is value um that shouldn't be denigrated for people who want to experience uh going to orbit or going to the moon um and you know when they do so and i think some degree vicariously we all go with them you know when and when in the poll program when they landed on the moon um yeah it was just a handful of individuals

on the moon but we all went with them vicariously humanity went with them like if you if you asked peter to paul of people on earth and said tell me what do you think is uh humanity's greatest achievement of the maybe ever it's like landing on the moon you know and that's inspiring i think to kids everywhere so you just brought stand up for civilians is that space tourism you're doing and by the way you have to be kind of rich to do it like from what i understand i cannot afford to go to the moon for example yeah i i mean i think i think it's got a bit more gravitas than um you know metaphorically figuratively and literally more gravitas than uh you know simply tourism it's not like going to disneyland you know it's like uh it's more profound than that

um so sometimes people use tourism in a sort of a negative way but um i think you know especially with the the inspiration flight i think they they really i mean they you know they filmed the whole thing in real time um you know they they shared their experiences with the world there's a really cool group of people i recommend watching the netflix uh show countdown mark pennyoff talked about it it's awesome um i i don't have anything to do with it and and the production value on the netflix countdown documentary is amazing um and you learn about the back story of the people and um it's uh it's actually super cool you know like this is for science and for saving humanity presumably yeah i think uh what tourism um i think that there's an element of tourism

to it but i think you know it there's also uh you know the technology is expensive at first um you you can't just when you're trying to develop brand new technology it doesn't instantly become uh cheap and affordable and think of like cell phones and the only cell phones were were really expensive and sucked you know yeah frankly like you know usually like wall street one where you know he's walking down the beach with the shoebox size cell phone on it you know talking to this and and so just like really expensive and the tech wasn't that great but but if if some number of people didn't pay for the expensive cell phones there would not be the inexpensive cell phones that everyone can afford so thank billionaires for going into space um i mean you know

uh it doesn't have to be top of your thank you list but i mean it's not um yeah i'm just saying that there's a nest when there's new technology uh it is necessarily expensive until uh you can refine the design and you can scale things up um and then you can make it more affordable um there is a common misconception that there's some with some new technology especially if it's a physical object that you can just suddenly make it cheap and available um and and um [Music] but you have to have many design iterations and you've got to scale up the production and get economies of scale like we had this argument um against tesla for for a long time because people would say like well why are you building this tesla roadster back in the day it's it's basically

a you know it's an expensive toy sports car for his people we're like yes it is but um there's no way we could build an affordable electric car as of this car uh any you know we just didn't have the capital we didn't have the experience and we needed to go through several technology iterations in order to get to something like the model 3.

right and i actually wrote a blog about this because i knew people would be like why are you making sports class rich for rich people as though we thought there was somehow a shortage of sports cars for people or obviously not um but better you just got to you got to figure out the technology uh you got to go through multiple design like how do you make something mass market and affordable many many design iterations many many different versions of the technology a lot of hard work and then you've got to scale up the production rate so you get economies of scale and those two things are what make any given technology available to the public and basically every uh technology that we take for granted today has gone through that uh uh so the idea that you're

getting to mars will be affordable someday yes absolutely it has to be in order for it um in order for moz to be a self-sustaining civilization it has to be affordable you say that enough people need to go you know why do you want people to go when you keep saying that because you're worried about this planet are you just betting the odds are we'll either blow it up or no it'll be the day after tomorrow moving you know i i think it's really um you know if you sort of look you know uh just sort of stand back um just if you just if we just step away from our sort of antenna squabbles and say let's look at the big picture here [Music] what what set of actions can we take that maximize the probability that the future is going to be good for civilization and

for consciousness and i think we should regard consciousness on earth as delicate not uh you know just fragile um and you know what sort of actions can we do to ensure that it continues and that the scope and scale of consciousness uh expands and um and i'm i'm in favor of of expansion because like you know if we want to understand what the universe is about and and what's the meaning of life and we need to get out there and find out um and the more we expand the scope and scale of consciousness the better we will be able to understand what questions to ask about the answer that is the universe so when you get a lot of criticism say about the starling space pollution you see a lot of stories about space pollution why is elon putting so many astronomers

get mad at you or with um the rockets so that you have these big expense contracts that you're doing correct first time someone's broken into the area how do you meet those criticisms this is just small potatoes well first of all with respect to the astronomers um we are in uh constant dialogue with the leading astronomers of the world um and taking great pains to ensure that um our satellites do not interfere with their telescopes um and we've um i believe at this point they are satisfied that they will not um so uh yeah we would like to retain great pains to ensure that uh the satellites do not reflect or you know uh otherwise interfere with the the telescopes including the most sensitive telescopes so um you know maybe a few sort of amateur astronomers

who aren't happy but the professional ones are are satisfied that we're taking reasonable steps to ensure that we are not standing in the way of science nor would we ever want to um and we're also looking at uh launching some uh new telescopes using starship because starship's much bigger vehicle we can launch satellites that have uh 10 times the resolution of the hubble which would be great for science and in fact we were there's an exciting program working with the seoul perimeter at berkeley on a big new space satellite um as a space telescope i should say um and i think we'll do we'll do more of those i think at the end of the day uh starship and spacex are gonna do a lot to advance uh our understanding of uh astrophysics and structure you still want

to you said to me last couple times ago we talked you want to die on mars you still want to die on mars um well just not on landing right yes it's not an impact right well that would be spectacular yes but you wouldn't get to enjoy it much of you know just a second or something about a narrative for the rest yeah no well i was just asked uh do you want to die in moz and i was like well i suppose if you're going to pick earth or mars i'm like it'd be cool to like be born on earth and down moss i'm not i'm not like trying to make a beeline to mars and just you know dive or something um it's just that uh yeah i gotta pick one you're gonna die somewhere sure mars um i've interviewed a lot of astro uh i guess they're biologists they're worried about um essentially

they said you have to be under the earth a couple hundred feet no no no you get short definitely not a couple of not too much a couple hundred yeah you know you just need um first of all half the time you're shielded by this of by mars itself um that's half the radiation is just the planet shielding you and then um you want to make maybe have like i don't know three feet of dirt ish on the roof or just kind of a thick roof um they'll be fine um so so you're not worried about becoming shorter and stupider by moving to mars uh no i think we might uh become taller actually almost a little bit a little bit taller yeah because the gravity is roughly 40 out of both okay that would be good for me when you think about um but i think i do think there's like an

important thing before if you think of the various great filters um if you feel familiar with the sort of great grateful sort of thought um you know one of the filters is do we become a space for a a multi-planet species or not um so that is at least one of the one of the great filters and we would i think it would be great to uh pass that um and have um be a multi-planet species where the the critical threshold is uh on a for a mars city if if the resupply ships from earth stop coming for for any reason whether that is civilization on earth it could be a mundane reason or could be world war iii but does mars prosper or die out and if mars is missing anything at all like the civilizational equivalent of vitamin c then it will eventually die out so you

need to get to the point where a mars city is self-sustaining even if the earth the ships from earth stop coming then you have passed the great filter or at least that particular great culture i think we should uh endeavor to pass that great filter as soon as possible [Music] he said pretty soon last time we talked yeah i mean i think we should really try hard to make it happen the century um before the end of the century you'll be pretty old i'll probably be dead yeah not on mars well i mean i'll you know pop over there when i'm old or something okay so um one of the things you're doing is a lot of government deals you're doing this lunar lander he did the rocket one um you're getting billions from 2.

9 billion dollars there right well right now we're not getting anything because everything's pursued right that's right i'm sorry okay yeah but you're getting a lot of money and hopefully we'll get it right right when it's over yeah um anything right i mean what most of our launches are commercial to be clear yes i understand that but you're doing a lot of government work so what is that like working with the government i mean is that important to your business yeah i mean it's it's an important part of it's an important part of the business i mean just just very i mean bear in mind if like if you're in any industry like let's say you're a pencil manufacturer okay about 40 of your pencils are going to go to the government the government's about 40 of

the economy you know if you're a shoe manufacturer about 40 of your business is going to be with the government so you know it's to be expected that any any company is going to have uh uh most companies are going to have a percentage of business with the government state federal and local that is proportionate to the gdp uh of the government so one of the criticisms of you is you don't pay enough taxes if any um can you address that because here you are getting money from the government you obviously want to function in government uh to be able to build all kinds of things and services how do you look at that trade-off uh well i mean there was a bunch of very misleading stuff that was published uh by pro publica um and really that was some sort of trickery

and really that they did themselves no good service by by doing that um uh first of all with respect to the government contracts that uh spacex wins uh our aspiration is to do the most for the least and if you look at all the contracts we've won um we've won them because we're the best price we have a better service at a lower price they weren't just handed to us i don't think they were and that's what i'm saying in fact you called me and said we finally got in after years of sort of this back slappy i think it's a great thing that isn't great absolutely i mean in the for the lunarland just taking that as one example um our bed was half the price of the blue origin lockheed bed half so for a vehicle that does basically 10 times more or eight times more

baths our price was half and nasa has a mandate to get back to the moon so we save taxpayers like three billion dollars relative to that contract um so i think that's that's a good thing with respect to my personal taxes um um i don't actually draw a salary or anything my cash compensation is basically zero um which is a good thing because income is a problem for most people and because they pay taxes on income that was the whole point of the story i think yeah yeah um so um i do have sock options um that best and so in the years that the but but i don't i basically with um tesla and spacex i just um have not really bothered to sort of take money off the table which is a common most people do they sell some of their stock and they take money off the table

um and for me i just like said i you know my mind will be that sort of it was it was the first in and i'll be the last out and um the success of spacex and tesla was far from assured and there are many times when it looked like the companies would and they did they skirted bankruptcy many times but i never tried to take money off the table and now this has been trying to be turned around and made into a bad thing and i this is that's messed up um so um but when my stock options uh um just before my stock options expire then i i am forced to exercise and my top marginal tax rate is 53 percent so i i don't think that's particularly low and it's going to go up next year it's like probably 57 or something can you sell yes and and i uh i am i have a bunch

of options that are expiring uh early next year so i'm uh that a huge block of options will sell in q4 because i have to or they'll expire and my top marginal tax rate uh is 53 percent so you'll eventually pay a lot of taxes but massive yeah i mean basically majority of what i said will be tax i don't think it was alleging illegality is that wealthy people got to borrow against their stock uh yes they were they were saying that like somehow borrowing is a trick to get away from paying taxes but um it's more important to bear in mind that we've had a very long expansion uh in the economy maybe the longest ever and borrowing against stock is all is all sort of fun and games until you have a recession and you get the margin calls and then you go to zero

which is which happens basically every time there's a recession um stocks don't always go up they go down yours seems to most stocks have gone up including some questionable stocks frankly are you talking about yourself i'm sorry i think are you surprised by how much it's gone up and yeah i mean i have literally gone on record and said i think bus stock price is too high in my opinion and this did nothing to stop the rise of the stock race so i don't know what am i supposed to do you know um i'm i'm not the one making a go off um so um but i think it's important to bear in mind my actual tax rate is 53 they try to make it sound like basically there's a big increase in the value of the tesla stock and then they added up they just very selectively poked

the numbers to make it sound like i was paying very low taxes but in fact my taxes are very high they're like over half um and you pay them when you're open yes and a huge amount will be paid in the next three months because of expiring options and there was like one year where i think my taxes were basically zero and the reason for that was because i had overpaid taxes the year before they forgot to mention that you didn't call them back i'm gonna call them back you have no interest in the truth oh okay all right um let me ask you a question um twitter let's finish twitter and then let's get to questions from the audience what's going on with you and twitter i am a twitter addict i say the wrong things all the time what is someone explained it to me

it's very close to you saying it's your release valve this is where you feel better yeah i think i said some people some people use their hair to express themselves i use twitter do you regret any of it or not you are kind of prominent yeah i mean sure walk through when you decide to do a tweet you go no no no well i think about it for hours and i consult with my strategy team you just literally go yeah yeah or maybe i'm wasted or not approved [Laughter] me shoot myself in the foot fam now let me shoot myself a little bam yeah that describes some of my tweets yeah are you um worried about any sec involvement in your tweets going forward um what does that stand for again i mean i know the middle wood is elon's but i can't remember the other two words you

need to answer you need to answer me are you worried they're gonna say elon stop tweeting you talk about the short seller enrichment commission yeah yeah that's the new name is it yeah yeah they haven't got a particular recent tweet you did about he did one great wait about time saying time is the uh currency which i thought was beautiful time is the ultimate currency yes um no matter what resources you have you can't wind back the clock it's true yeah how rich you are yeah but then you did the biden tweet can you explain that one oh when um well yeah i mean so you know like biden held this ev summit didn't invite tesla invited gm ford chrysler and uaw navy summit on the white house um didn't mention tesla once and praised german ford for leading the

eva wrestling revolution so you were pissed so does sound uh maybe a little biased uh or something um so um and you know just uh it's not the friendliest administration well i'm yeah it seems to be controlled by the union somewhere like now so are you waiting to get trump back uh no [Music] would you like to be president besides yourself i would not want to be present at all sounds like no fun being president um what do you think is going to bring our country together if at all moving to mars what well i think if there was some uh moderate you know sort of sort of centrist president and i think uh that would help um you know that i think everyone just wants uh i think most people most people want a president who is just a very competent you know executive

you know not too far left not too far right and and everyone would be like i think [Music] most people would prefer that uh you know some when it comes out the election you've got two choices you're like you know maybe you don't love either choice but you gotta pick one do you think that'll happen do i think that would be what's interesting i hope so how does that begin about democracy um i'm not super worried about democracy um are you worried about democracy oh smidge what concerns you uh a lot of the dialogue is getting a little i study propaganda oh yeah it's worrisome the fact that it can't happen here it certainly can i'm a phillip roth kind of person so yeah um but we're both having a lot of children so we must believe in the future yes we have

ten children between us correct i believe yes you're slightly ahead but you've got a rocket um anyway i i i i i do think we there is um you know i think a lot of people think that there's too many people on the planet but i think there's in fact too few and the the possibly the single greatest risk to human civilization is the rapidly diminishing growth rate and the facts are out there for anyone to look at but a lot of people are still stuck with you know pearl uh paul illick's book population bomb and it's like uh that was a long time ago that is not the case today um and the there's a there was a massive notch uh in demographics last year because uh the birth rate plummeted and also this year so i mean if you know no no babies no humanity but you got

to come from somewhere oh okay we're going to end on that we need questions from audiences there's a lot of great questions hey lana i'm ronan levy from field trip we spent a lot of time talking about outer space we want to ask you about inner space and the question specifically is do you spend time thinking about humanity's somewhat destructive tendencies before sending people to mars and specifically you've talked about the subject of dmt and curious to know what role you think psychedelics may have in addressing some of the more destructive tendencies of humanity we're going to talk about this tomorrow oh okay um i think generally uh people should be open to psychedelics yeah [Applause] so yeah clearly it's a i mean you know yeah a lot of people making

laws are kind of from a different era so i think as you know as as a new generation gets into political power i think we will see uh greater receptivity to the benefits of psychedelics humanity's tendencies right now concern you like about before we go to mars i mean humanity's tendencies i mean we are at a very peaceful moment in history um so you got to separate the sort of news headlines from the reality um i think like stephen pinker hobbit has really pointed this out like we're actually at the lowest violence per capita in his in human history um it may not seem like that but objectively those are the statistics um let's not say there's no violence or there aren't things to be improved but it's you know it's actually quite good and then so um but

uh you know just like i said in the big picture-wise we i think we want to take the set of actions that maximize the probability of the future is good [Music] and that civilization continues and that the uh sort of this small candle of consciousness in the void that is humanity continues and there's not it's not the candle does not go out okay next up here hello um my name is lena i'm a student at the university of chicago and i also have a podcast called kind of sort of brown um so my question centers a little bit what you talked about concerning that you know you're building this world for not enough people yet but the people that now are here um but concerning young people how do you actually build infrastructure to make sure that you're not just building

resources for people to be in mars but actually putting them in positions of power politically or educating people who don't have access to learn about space technology et cetera how do you actually teach young people and bring them and do you feel like that's your role or does it your role to just build the spaceship to mars well our primary goal is is to create the technology necessary to get people to mars in the absence of which not you know it's somewhat academic um so we wouldn't want to get to this direction from our primary mission of we we've got to make it at least possible to get it to go to mars um and we want to do so as soon as possible and make access to mars as widely available as possible as affordable as possible so that if somebody

wants to go they can so that's that's our primary mission um i mean there are many good causes in the world but we got to be careful that we do not try to um take on too many uh i mean there are many noble missions but we we have to pick our battles and say okay let's just make sure we get this done um and uh because nobody else is doing it and i mean if if spacex doesn't do it i'm not sure how it will happen i think this this is uh at least right now spacex is uh the only hope so we we're going to get this done and it's far from done i mean it's got a lot long way to go um yeah i i installing in terms of providing internet internet connectivity to uh people that really don't have it or it's very expensive i think will be helpful in um empowering a lot

of people who are disempowered today so i think that's a good thing too right next hi techno king um how do you respond to allegations you call him techno king yeah okay that is my formal title i found that with you gotta be respectful cara how do you respond to allegations that uh you're a living cyber genetic organism sent from the future to save us and secondly i can either confirm nor deny that he's good he's good and secondly what do you think uh the probability is that general purpose blockchains that have greater utility will eclipse the value of like a fish finished product in bitcoin i actually i'm not sure how to answer that last one um i think just generally uh public ledger stuff is good um because uh i'm a fan of open source and just and

just you know uh sunlight being a great disinfectant and the more the less things occur in the dark the better um and uh you know sort of a cryptic basically i mean blockchains are [Music] just a it's a cryptographic ledger um an open you know so i think that uh there's probably a lot of things good things that could be done with that so the first question i said i could neither confirm nor deny okay right here hey elon alex heath with the verge um the questions on the self-driving beta you guys are rolling out curious why you're encouraging people to not share videos making them sign ndas just be curious no i mean there's a lot of videos being shared uh but the ndis the ndas for for the full self-driving beta i don't know um people don't seem to listen

to the md i mean i'm not sure if there's uh yeah i don't know why this is in the nda we probably don't need it but people just are ignoring it anyway so i'm sure it matters all right so i'm gonna ignore this i'm going to keep getting questions let's do two hi hi alanzia yusuf from bcg could you talk a little bit about ai and robotics and you've expressed concerns in the past but you know building some as well what do you see as the issues that we do have to solve on that front well i've said for a long time i think ai safety is a really big deal and we should have some regulatory agency that is overseeing ai safety [Music] but there is not yet currently any such thing and and just generally any kind of regulatory agency done by the government will usually

takes years to put in place so um you know after [Music] the population collapse issue i think ai safety is probably the second biggest a threat to the future of civilization um and um yeah like i said i'm not quite sure what to do with it um i mean tesla is arguably world's biggest robot maker because like we have basically similar semi-autonomous cars that will ultimately be fully autonomous um and we are building a humanoid robot that will be basically like um like like the car but with legs [Music] so [Music] um and i kind of uh held off on doing that for a while because you know i i certainly don't want to hasten the ai apocalypse but clearly with look at boston dynamics and like this humanoid robots are going to happen so um they're really going

to happen with or without tesla so it's like tesla i've got a little bit more i mean a lot more ability to ensure uh robotics safety and ai and i will try my best to do that what would you do no we can't do more sorry we got it quick first uh thanks for making the first car i ever loved um i love the car my wife insisted i asked this question if i got here we also have way too many children um that's probably great if there's any chance that you could put a roof rack on the x that's what she's looking for uh uh we need a roof rack uh on the x if if you can figure that out that's almost more important than going to mars um we have not figured that out i mean it's tricky because we have the fancy doors they're awesome yeah the doors are awesome but you

know if you have a roof rack like how do you stop the doors from smashing you were smart yeah thank you and the model y has a roof rack though it's not big enough for all the kids really it's seat seven not not normal kids okay what do you have separate cars for your children you eat them you want elon musk it does have a tow hitch you can tow your stuff two questions elon thanks for the plaid it's a great car um as we're all uh you know waiting for a full selfie that's awesome really it's awesome we like we might have to argue a bit about the yolk but we're getting accustomed to it it's great you know it's like something different and it it's different and people sometimes don't like the different things but how much did you put it down it's pushing

you right was it your kids my kids love the yolk so that works for them anyway really really quick look we're living in this in between time between we drive our cars ourselves and the cars drive themselves they're semi-autonomous for those of us in the industry those of us who understand something about technology about machine learning actually like it it's pretty easy it fixes my mistakes i fix its mistakes a lot in the press though about and google's position certainly is this is like the worst place to be right because people are going to get checked out and the cars are going to drive themselves into what do you think about the ml human hybrids that we're kind of you know embracing right now how long are we going to have these crossover periods

i know you believe sfst is around the corner do you think this is really a problem are we going to teach people to deal with ml well i mean the transition period to new technology is always a little bumpy and but i think we published the safety stats like basically miles driven on autopilot and miles driven manually and this i mean it's an order of magnitude different so like people say oh well you're playing with the statistics i'm like listen we're just saying miles driven an autopilot mile's not driving automotive there's a 10 up back to 10 difference so i mean even if we were like we're not fiddling with statistics that's just it this is not subtle it's what i'm saying it's not subtle um the truth is that people are actually not great at driving these

two-ton death machines you know and people get tired and they um get drunk and they get distracted and they text and they do all sorts of things they shouldn't do and then the cars that you know crash basically um and um [Music] now that now when we were embarking on the autonomy front uh someone told me i think that's quite true which is even if you for argument's sake uh reduce fatalities by 90 percent with autonomy um the 10 that do die uh with autonomy are still going to sue you right the 90 that are living don't even know that that's the reason they're alive um nonetheless um [Music] i've had many conversations with the tesla autopilot full self driving team who are just an outstanding group of people um and saying like listen guys it is better to

[Music] pursue like the reality of doing the right thing matters more than the perception of doing the right thing and as long as we are confident that we're doing the right thing even if we are criticized and sued and all that we should not only do the right thing and not care about simply the perception of the right thing okay last question sorry rick cutter the cloud for utilities uh thank you so much for the card work you've done with with tesla driving the ev market as we move towards more green energy utilities are getting rid of their fossil plants coal plants investing in renewables there's a difference in economic output they can deliver are you concerned at all as the growth of evs continue do you think we could have a supply chain problem with

energy down the road yeah i think that's a that's a very good question the full answer is is lengthy i'll try to give this the short version the electricity demand roughly if if we go if we if we shift um or transport to electric um then electricity demand approximately doubles maybe a little more than doubles um and this is going to create a lot of challenges with the the grid um especially for distribution to neighborhoods and this is why tesla has the product the solar roof and solar retrofit is because even if you increase sustainable power generation at the utility level you're still going to have a distribution problem where you need new high power lines near medium power lines you need to dramatically increase the size of the substations which

means you're going to have to start knocking down houses to increase the substation size this is really unworkable unless you have uh significant local power generation at houses and this is why i think it's actually very important that um that a necessary part of the solution is local power generation on on rooms on the houses of homes very important and then of course we need large sustainable power generation developments uh primarily wind and solar [Music] but needs to be paired with battery packs for steady-state to provide continuous power and a lot of good things are happening in this regard the growth of solar in the last several years has been incredible i think it's like a 40 compound annual growth rate in in solar and uh also a big growth in

wind i'm also kind of a pro-nuclear a nuclear nuclear for a nuclear [Music] and you know i'm sort of surprised by a lot of the public sentiment against nuclear and i'm not saying we should go build a whole bunch of new nuclear plants but i don't think we should shut down ones that are operating safely um and um but they did that they did this in germany for example i think that was and and then and had to create a whole bunch of coal power plants and i i don't think that was uh the right decision frankly so um yeah anyway so we're one or another though we're gonna have to have a lot more electricity generation um and this is this is primarily going to come down to solar and wind uh paired with batteries which will be our next conversation okay that's

not boring solar sounds good okay can i see one more question one time we talked a couple years ago code you said we were in a simulation this past couple of years has seemed truly up yeah it feels like a bunch of teenagers from the future are just really smoking a lot of dope and with us are we are we in a simulation i mean my heart says no and my brain says yes elon musk